Top Marine: No Plan For Post-Saddam Iraq

[brooklynite]

CBS News Exclusive: General And Superiors Didn't Have Plan For Control Of Iraqi Cities

There is no one on the Joint Chiefs of Staff who has visited Iraq more often than Gen. Mike Hagee, whose term as Commandant of the United States Marine Corps ends Monday.

...snip...

As Commander of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force during the lead-up to the war, Hagee was in charge of planning for the Marines' original push to Baghdad. So I asked him about one of the enduring mysteries of the invasion — why there was no real plan for running the country once Saddam Hussein fell from power.

...snip...

Hagee says he asked his boss again and again who would take charge of those cities. He wanted to know what the plan was for Phase IV — military terminology for the phase that follows the end of major combat operations. Phase IV is, in other words, what comes after "mission accomplished." Hagee says that he sent his questions up the chain of command, as they say in the military — and never heard back.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/13/national/main2177031.shtml

Video of interview (RealAudio)

[gratuitous]

1. He never heard back?

Did he make a follow-up call, or did he just let it go not wanting to bother his boss who was probably super busy? Somehow I'd expect just a tad more initiative from someone who's supposed to be way high up like that. I know that if I, a lowly secretary, don't follow up on everything, someone is going to come around and ask me why I wasn't bird-dogging this task to the nth degree. Surely Mr. Hagee should demonstrate at least that much follow through.

[ToolTex]

3. We know he didn't follow up because he was still there until today.

If he had followed up he would have been replaced as General Sanchez was.

[we can do it]

4. Try Reading the Entire Post, OK?

Hagee says he asked his boss again and again who would take charge of those cities........Hagee says that he sent his questions up the chain of command, as they say in the military — and never heard back.


He followed protocol, do you think he wasn't busy himself? Shheeeesh

[gratuitous]

14. Yeah, I guess it's not like someone was gonna die or anything

Wait . . .

[TheMadMonk]

15. It would appear that he did what he could within the limits of his

authority.

IIRC the way the system works is that, anything directed towards the higher echelons must pass through one's immediate superior. Virtually the only time a person in the military, may only go over his/her superior's head is when making a formal complaint against that superior.

As for going outside the chain of command, say to one's congressman, or worse going public with a problem: If you're lucky you'll face a board and/or be placed on inactive duty, and quite possibly you'll face a full court martial. (Given the climate, the later would be almost a certainty.)

He could have tried blowing the whistle and taken his lumps for it. However, I suspect that he knew that any such attempt would seen no results, him out on his ear, and a more compliant replacement would have been found to the detriment of his troops, so he made what inquiries he could up the chain of command whilst remaining "Semper Fi" to his men and in a position to do what he could for them in the position into which they had been thrust.

[krispos42]

17. Sounds like politics is destroying the military from within

Now if you don't believe the situation on the ground is what the higher-ups want to think it is, you get cashiered. If you try to bring reality into planning, you get cashiered. And then you have to carry that attitude on down through the ranks, so the attitude spreads.

That has to be demoralizing.

[TheMadMonk]

23. That indeed might be the effect today. However,

I believe that that is just how the military works. And if you think about it, you'll understand why. Getting into the habit of second guessing one's superiors or ignoring the chain of command is a damned good way of getting one's fellow soldiers killed.

[krispos42]

33. I understand following orders even if they don't make sense

That happens a lot, because the troops don't always know the objective (which may be geopolitical) or the strategic or tactical situation.

It seems to me, in this case, that that not only does nobody have a coherent strategty for meeting nebulous goals, the troops know it their being bullshitted, the officers know the troops know their being bullshitted, and nobody can seem to get anything done.

[StraightDope]

2. Gee, there's a surprise...

Bush, Rumsfeld and the rest ignoring seasoned military veterans ... Never woulda thunk it there.

[niallmac]

5. Rapture? n/t

[usregimechange]

6. No plan. They didn't think they would need one, plain arrogance!

[IMayBeWrongBut]

7. Yep, Failing to plan is planning to fail. nt

nt

[Bullshot]

8. Earlier today I was reading about a retired vet attacking critics of Bush's war.

www.thecourier.com

[civildisoBDence]

9. Like frat boys getting drunk and winding up broke in Atlantic City...

On top of the lies that got us into this war, the profiteering, no bid contracts, torture, white phosphorous and uranium tipped armaments, we can add criminal negligence. I don't mean criminal negligence as a rhetorical device, I mean negligence so blatant it rises to the level of criminality.

I can't imagine reading this post after losing a loved one in Iraq...for what? Some dry drunk frat boy from hell's adventurism?

Jeses effing Christ.

Newsprism

[Binka]

24. I Almost Lost My First Born Son In October 2005

Here he is with Mike Hagee at Bethesda November 2005. Just a short year ago. Mike Hagee was one of the kindest gentlemen I have ever met and I have been around a LOT of military brass. (My father is a retired Naval Flag Officer.) I trust what Mike is saying here.

[stanwyck]

30. Binka, my son shares your high opinion of Hagee

My son is also a Marine (two tours in Iraq - one more coming up in January). He met Hagee who visited all Marine bases after Abu Gharab to make sure all Marines were clear on what constitutes treatment of POWs. He said Hagee was very firm and clear about what is expected from all Marines in regards to treating the Iraqi people, including those who are detained.
(thanks for the photo of Hagee and your handsome son.)

[Binka]

32. Side Note My Ex & His Bro Both Former Naval Officers

Were present when Ben got his purple heart; they were acting all stupid and shitting on Kerry and his purple heart, saying asinine crap like Kerry didn't deserve his heart etc etc, when Hagee stepped in and said "nobody should ever say anything negative about a purple heart recipient regardless of their politics." It was so fucking great. And obvious that Hagee was a Kerry supporter. Shut those assholes up but good. I could not help but smile a mile wide to see my ex gob-smacked.

Hagee was pure class. I would steal him from his wife but I met her at Bethesda and she was a hoot and solid as a rock. Great people.:thumbsup:

[w4rma]

10. From what I understand, Rumsfeld fired anyone who tried to come up with a plan.

He thought that any post-Saddam plan would ruin their chances of getting America stuck in this war.

[The Wizard]

25. The plan was and is

to keep us mired down there as long as politically possible. As long as we have a military force there we'll be dumping our tax dollars down the rat hole also known as the military industrial complex.
Everything the Bush Klan does relates to treasury looting by the wealthy at the expenses of everyone else.
With Halliburton, Bechtel, et al acting as a money laundry, the Bush gangsters are raping the American tax payer.
As Limbaugh and his clones on hate radio are wont to say, "It's your money."
Let's face it, keeping a 98,000 acre compound in South America is going to cost plenty, and the Bush gang is planning for that.
A South American haven for war criminals is so 1945. Who was it Prescott Bush was laundering money? Oh yeah, it was that Hitler guy.
The Bush legacy will be lower living standards for most Americans and goose stepping taught in physical education classes across the country.

[savemefromdumbya]

11. but the neocons had a plan

but it disintegrated

[Robeson]

12. But, but, but....I thought they were going to welcome us as liberators?...

...so would we need a plan?...:shrug:

[buddysmellgood]

13. If Cheney doesn't resign soon, both he and Bush will have to resign together.

That will mean President Pelosi. We haven't even started investigating yet and the shit keeps pouring out.

[ovidsen]

26. Wait for Chimp to say he "fully supports" Darth

That's the kiss of death. Just ask Rummy.

[Binka]

27. Cheney's Next

Poppy is putting his team back in power. Rummy and Dead Eye Dick are not made men to Poppy. He wants them OUT!

[illinoisprogressive]

16. Cheney thought of running in 93 with his little plan

I have been reading How Bush Rules and I just finished reading about Cheney. The neocon thing started in the mid 70s with Ford. Him and Rummy (who's assistant was Wolfowitz) had this thing called plan B. It was the beginning of what eventually evolved into the Project for the new american century.
Cheney and Rummy have been at it ever since. To the point that in 1993, Cheney told larry King he was concidering a run for president. He was disappointed that Ford and Reagan and Bush never took the origianl plan b seriously. So he thought he'd run.
When he found there wasn't much support for his run, he looked elsewhere. They beefed this little plan up (it originally called for Iraq to be the Soviet States) and the rest is a sad history.
They had over 30 years to come up with a plan and never did. 30 years.

[JHB]

22. Are you talking about the "Team B" exercise at the CIA?

The proto-Neocons were involved with that, which went forward when Poppy was DCI, and set "independent analysts" against the CIA's own analysis branch. While on a few technical issues it had some success, the "Team B" estimate of Soviet capabilities and intentions was much more ominous than the CIA's internal analysts' view. We now know that even the CIA pros were ovely generous (or perhaps just erring on the side of caution), whereas "Team B" was pure paranoid fantasy, but it was "leaked" to conservative hawks (like the Committee on the Present Danger and others) and formed the mythology on which the Reagan military buildup was based.

I do agree they've spent 30 years providing bad information, so much so that I've called into question the notion that these guys were ever worthy of their intellectual reputations. They seem more like "talking to dead people" charlatans: in a field where quick fact-checking is hard or impossible, tell a receptive audience what it really, deep down, wants to hear, and rake in their bucks.

[Up2Late]

18. Well, NO Military Plan, but I think we all know by now what the plan was...

...Phase 4 -- Turn the county over to HALLIBURTON and BECHTEL.

Phase 5 -- Count the Money.

End of plan.

[Robeson]

19. BINGO!....

...It's going 100% percent correct, according to Bush's paymasters.

[CJCRANE]

20. The plan is

the "fungible" troops take the hits and the no-bid contracts and kickbacks roll in.

[exlrrp]

21. Hagee came forward because of the Democratic takeover

Look for a whole lot more things like ths to emerge. This is why the Bush Admiistration is shaking and quaking and talking "bipartisan." Theyre deer in the headlights.
Before, there just wasn't anyone who would listen in government to Republican misdoings and to come forward like this was career suicide to no apparent avail (think: Bunny Greenhouse) Now that there's going to be Congressional committees that won't be cheering squads for Bush, I think there's going to be whole lot of whistle blowers coming forth. The next 2 years will be one continuous investigation--who here besides me thinks this is going to be REAL bad for the R's?
this will be SO much fun to watch, I'm figuratively popping the metaphorical popcorn now.

(edited for spelling)

[stanwyck]

31. The Bushies have nothing to fear

from investigations. Remember, as we've been told repeatedly, if you haven't done anything wrong, why worry about being stopped, detained, monitored, wiretapped, or waterboarded.
The innocent have nothing to fear.
Right?

[tabasco]

28. Not just an illegal war. Criminal incompetence in the conduct of the war.

It's going to take a long time to repair our alliances and clean up this quagmire.

[NashVegas]

29. Oh, There's a Plan, All Right

But it can't be spoken out loud because if it was, the Bush Junta would be charged with war crimes for starting a war of opportunism.