NYT: For Evangelicals, Supporting Israel Is ‘God’s Foreign Policy’

[kskiska]

WASHINGTON, Nov. 13 — As Israeli bombs fell on Lebanon for a second week last July, the Rev. John Hagee of San Antonio arrived in Washington with 3,500 evangelicals for the first annual conference of his newly founded organization, Christians United For Israel.

At a dinner addressed by the Israeli ambassador, a handful of Republican senators and the chairman of the Republican Party, Mr. Hagee read greetings from President Bush and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel and dispatched the crowd with a message for their representatives in Congress. Tell them “to let Israel do their job” of destroying the Lebanese militia, Hezbollah, Mr. Hagee said.

He called the conflict “a battle between good and evil” and said support for Israel was “God’s foreign policy.”

The next day he took the same message to the White House.

Many conservative Christians say they believe that the president’s support for Israel fulfills a biblical injunction to protect the Jewish state, which some of them think will play a pivotal role in the second coming. Many on the left, in turn, fear that such theology may influence decisions the administration makes toward Israel and the Middle East.

more…
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/washington/14israel.html?_r=1&ref=washington&oref=slogin

[HaggardsMethDealer]

1. God isn't in charge now, idiots.

Democrats are.:)

[ret5hd]

2. Even i wouldn't express it that way...

and i'm an atheist.

[VegasWolf]

3. Exactly, God obviously hasn't been in charge for a loooong time! nt

[wholetruth00]

4. The myth of the "chosen" was written by the "chosen for the chosen"

Evangelicals, will they ever tire of being "used" as pawns of politicians both foreign and domestic?

[Behind the Aegis]

7. You don't seem to understand the myth of the "chosen."

I see this played out on this board way too often. It is lack of knowledge of Judaism.

[Canuckistanian]

9. This is not Judaism. It's fundamentalist Christianism

And we've seen the results of Christians interpreting Judaic traditions and philosophy.

[Behind the Aegis]

10. I know what it is, poster #4 doesn't seem to understand it.

Thus, my post.

[Canuckistanian]

11. Ah, I see now n/t

[daleo]

5. Why would an omnipotent being need the help of these nuts?

I know, stupid question.

[MathEducation]

6. Abraham and Hagar had Ishmael...

Abraham and Hagar had Ishmael from whom the Arab world descended from.

Genesis 22, is a story from the Hebrew Bible in which God asks Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac on Mount Moriah.

Although the Koran does not name the child whom Abraham was to sacrifice, Muslims believe it was Ishmael.

Hagar was the handmaid of Abraham and the mother of Ishmael (Hebrew meaning: God will hear). Abraham has relations with Hagar because Sarah, his wife, could not have children (Genesis 7:2). But a short time later Sarah gives birth to Isaac, the ancestor of the Jewish people. Sarah feels that Ishmael's presence will hurt Isaac's rightful place as the father of a great nation and she commands Abraham to drive Hagar away (Genesis 21:10). God rescues both Hagar and her son from death and promises to make Ishmael a great nation (Genesis 21:12-18).

And so Christians and Muslims have fought for over 1400 years. For what... God loves us all the same.

Also I don't understand why Christians believe God wants them to support Israel. I don't understand why God supports Israel. Jesus came unto His own and His own received Him not. Jesus was God. The Jews reject(ed) Jesus (i.e. God)...

Go figure...

Is this really about testosterone? My ego is bigger than yours?

[theophilus]

15. I wish that everyone had your grasp of the context and the subject!

Very well stated and to the point. I believe that if Progressives would take the time to understand the subject, whether they believe it or not, most of the "religious" problems could be solved.

Indeed. God is now "pro-choice". He no longer chooses but encourages all to choose wisely.

I don't think there will be an eternal hell, but I do think you can get eternal life.

[sugapablo]

18. Jesus will return...

...only when the Jews are in control of Israel.

And then of course, he'll slaughter all the Jews (and Muslims) and the Xians can live happily ever after. :)

(Seriously, no joke.)

[IndianaGreen]

27. Jesus is buried in his hometown of Capernaum

this is why the temporary burial site in Jerusalem was empty when Mary Magdalene arrived to anoint the body. Jesus's body was moved by his family to Capernaum.

This is why the tomb was empty.

This is why there was no resurrection.

This is why there is no Second Coming.

This is why we must oppose the Evangelicals!

[JudyM]

22. Re: your question

You write:"I don't understand why God supports Israel. Jesus came unto His own and His own received Him not. Jesus was God. The Jews reject(ed) Jesus (i.e. God)..."

Yet the Jews have never believed that Jesus was God. Only Christians believe that, you see. Jews generally believe Jesus was a good and wise man, but their failure to believe that he was the Messiah does not mean they rejected God. The New Testament is purely Christian, not Jewish. So your assumption that the Jews rejected God is formed from a Christian perspective, which not all of us believe to be truth. I hope that clarifies this somewhat.

[MathEducation]

25. Why???

Christians believe Jesus was God; the Messiah. When they asked Jesus who was God, He said "Before Abraham was, I am". Jesus also said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man cometh unto the Father but by Me."

Tenant Story: Mark 12.1-12

Jesus relates that a man planted a vineyard, leased it to his tenants and moved away. When the harvest season arrived, the owner sent a slave to collect the owner’s share of the produce, but the tenants beat the slave and kicked him out. The owner sent many others who were also beaten, ejected or killed. Finally, the owner sent his “beloved Son” whom the tenants killed, thinking that he had come for their inheritance. Jesus asks, what will the “owner of the vineyard do?” The owner, Jesus says, “will come and destroy the tenants and give the vineyard to others” (Mk 12.9). “They” realize the story was told “against them” (vs. 12) and so want to arrest Jesus but are afraid of the crowd. (“They” apparently refers to the priests, scribes and elders at Mk 11.27.) The tenant story is based on Isa 5.1-7, but Isaiah knows nothing of slaves or a son being murdered.

In Mark, the tenants are the Jewish people, those sent to collect the owner’s share of the produce are the prophets of the Jewish Scriptures, and the son is Jesus. The meaning of the allegory is that the Jewish covenant is only temporary. It will be nullified by “the Jews” when they reject and kill God’s Son. They will then no longer be the people of God; the non-Jews will replace them and be given the vineyard, that is, the kingdom of God.

Criminal charges could have been brought by the Sanhedrin against Jesus since he attributed to himself divine characteristics by allowing himself to be called Lord and claiming the authority to forgive sins and regulate the Sabbath, etc. And, if Jesus claimed to be the “only” Son of God in a literal, not metaphorical sense, this would be un-Jewish, and perhaps a criminal offense.

At the trial, the high priest asks Jesus if he will defend himself, but he is “silent and not answer,” fulfilling Isa 53.7. The high priest then asks, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” But how does the high priest know that any of the titles, Messiah (Christ), Son of the Blessed, Son of Man, Son of God, apply to Jesus? Jesus is called the “Son of God” by demons, but they are silenced at his command, and none of the people even suspect that these titles apply to him; at most the people think Jesus is a prophet (Mk 8.28) or maybe one who cures illnesses or exorcises demons.

Asked if he is the Messiah, Jesus answers, “I am; and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven” (Mk 14.61-62), a union of Dan 7.13 and probably Ps 110.1. Hearing Jesus’ admission, the high priest tears his garments and judges that Jesus is guilty of blasphemy. The priest asks the Sanhedrin for its decision and “All of them him as deserving death” (Mk 14.64).

According to Jesus, the Jews were the chosen people of God but they will sever their covenant with God when they reject and kill God’s son. Thus, non-Jews will replace them as the people of God. Christians have so interpreted the gospels for nearly 2,000 years and today conservative Christians, still faithful to the gospels, preach this message of supersessionalism.




Like Christians, Muslims respect and revere Jesus. Islam teaches that Jesus is one of the greatest of God's prophets and messengers to humankind.

So you have Christians who believe Jesus was God (the Messiah) supporting Jews who believe Jesus was just a man guilty of blasphemy in defense against Muslims who believe Jesus was one of God's greatest prophets???




1) Why do Christians support Jews above other races?

2) And for that matter, why do Jews let them?

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

12. The WH--and most Senators and congresscritters think this also

[w4rma]

13. They shouldn't confuse what the neo-cons have been doing with supporting Israel, however. (nt)

[TomClash]

14. US Christian Right = Israeli Right

They can have each other.

And please take the Muslim fundamentalists to Hell with you.

[Joe Bacon]

16. What Hagee REALLY wants

He can't wait to round up all the Jews and forcibly send them to Israel. According to his warped book of fairy tales, that has to happen before J C and his Sonshine Band do THE GREAT FLOAT OFF® of all rich white Republican Christians. After the float off, Armageddon comes and all Jews are slaughtered EXCEPT 144,000 male virgins who convert to Christianity.

That rules me out of the 144,000.

I wonder what ol Hagee will say when Israel nukes Iran and Iran counterattacks by blowing Tel Aviv off the map. What will he say when there is a radioactive Holy Land and J C pulls a no show? Maybe J C likes hanging out at the Alpha Centauri Howard Johnsons... :evilgrin:

[B3Nut]

20. So that's where HoJo's ran off to

Dog gone if I can find them on Earth anymore... ;)

Todd in Beerbratistan

[stepnw1f]

17. Here's the Underlying Reason for the Pro-War Fruitcakes

Show them facts..... uh uh. Reason with them... uh uh.

They made up their tiny minds already.... God told them so....

Lock em' up!

[noonwitch]

19. God is on Israel's side, God is on the Palestinean's side-

God wants them to stop killing each other! He takes the side of those who are wounded and suffering, whom are found on all sides of this situation.

Isaiah 60:

"Arise, shine for thy light is come
and the Glory of the Lord is risen upon thee".

It goes on to say that all who live in peace in the land we call Israel will be blessed, jew and gentile alike.

Both sides bear responsibility for the situation as it is. It is difficult to negotiate with a culture that straps bombs on their children to kill other people's children, just as it is difficult for that side to understand when the Israeli military destroy's someone's home because the owner has a relative who is possibly a terrorist.

[UndertheOcean]

21. There is no God... as evidenced by the Holocaust...

n/t

[heidler1]

23. We all know that humans are inconsistent about most everything,

but this Issac/Ismael thing tends to prove this God is similar. Has this God all ready gave up on the Heaven/Hell idea because of a God size headache from all of the inconsistencies? If Jews are Gods favorites why does he make them suffer so? You can't lay it off on rejecting Jesus because the Romans had all ready occupied Israel.

[Make7]

24. Why would God so thoroughly fuck things up? ( n/t )

[IndianaGreen]

26. This is the same God that allowed the Holocaust to take place

and sat on the sidelines as Jesus was executed by the Romans.

There are times when I wish the Christian fundies were right about the Rapture, I'll be glad when we are rid of all of them Bible-thumping morons.