Man tests positive for radiation (Scaramella - Italian contact)

[deminks]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6199464.stm

Italian Mario Scaramella, a contact of dead ex-spy Alexander Litvinenko, has tested positive for polonium-210.

Mr Scaramella is not thought to be suffering symptoms but significant amounts of the substance are understood to have been found in the academic.

He met Mr Litvinenko at sushi restaurant Itsu in central London on the day he fell ill.

Meanwhile, the post-mortem examination on Mr Litvinenko, a former KGB agent, has started.

Those present at the examination at the Royal London Hospital, in east London, will wear protective clothing to avoid contamination by traces of the polonium-210 isotope.

[Kagemusha]

1. Er yeah, doesn't this have a short half-life?

I know they're finding traces all over the place but it's been enough days that radiation isn't likely to be that dangerous in and of itself from this material, right?

[deminks]

2. 138 days is the half life. PO 210 is not dangerous unless

taken internally. It is an alpha particle emitter. A piece of paper stops the particles from entering your body through the skin. If eaten or inhaled or injected in large enough quantities, it can destroy organs from the inside.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium

[Kagemusha]

3. 138 days? Ok, some reporter badly misquoted the half-life then

I think I read a story that said that the polonium-210 had to be moved within FIVE days from a nuclear plant to be deadly so only state agents in Russia (rogue or not) could have plausibly used it as a deadly weapon.

Well that doesn't sound plausible anymore, does it?

[MGKrebs]

4. I was wondering about that too.

I mean, how could you sell this stuff over the internet with a half life of 5 days? It would essentially have to be made to order.

[aquart]

5. So you can carry it in an envelope?

[AngryAmish]

6. Yep

[cassiepriam]

7. How much would you have to inhale or digest to be fatal?

Could it have been in the sushi?

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. Less than a milligram

How much constitutes a fatal dose?

The maximum safe body burden of polonium is only 7 picograms. Polonium occurs naturally in the environment due to radioactive decay of radon, and we all have traces of polonium in us. Polonium-210 is regarded as one of the most dangerous substances known because it ejects alpha–particles, which are helium nuclei, and these wreak havoc with every organ of the body in which the polonium resides. (Inside a living cell they can trigger cancer if they damage DNA.)

In theory, a mere microgram of polonium-210, which is no larger than a spec of dust, would deliver a fatal dose of radiation. Polonium is only slowly excreted – it has a biological half life of around a month – and this ensures its alpha-particles continue to wreak havoc.
...
I hear it could kill victims a bit too quickly if you get it all wrong

This appears to have been what happened to Litvinenko, and there may be those who know how to link the dose of polonium-210 to deliver a particular outcome, but they used too much, perhaps a milligram or more. Forensic analysis might eventually reveal how much polonium-210 there was in his body. From the day he was poisoned, Litvinenko would begin to excrete polonium which might explain its presence at various locations.

Royal Society of Chemistry

[Tesha]

9. NPR used the analogy "the amount in two grains of salt"

NPR used the analogy "the amount in two grains of salt"
which seems to line up pretty well with your "less than
a milligram".

Tesha

[Zynx]

10. Less than you can see.

Any amount you can actually identify with the naked eye is far more lethal than necessary.

[The Stranger]

11. Whoever killed these men wanted it known how they were doing it.

The symptoms from radiation poisoning should implicate the killer, or whomever provided the substance, which is probably heavily regulated.

Unless it is meant to frame that person.

[cassiepriam]

13. Unless they meant to use a much smaller amt?

Wouldn't that have been harder to detect??

[The Stranger]

18. Radiation sickness causes people to lose their hair, and makes it unmistkable what the cause is.

Just a question of tracing it to its source. And how many people have radioactive poisons lying around? Not many.

[cassiepriam]

20. Seems clearly Russian to me. But which group?

[cassiepriam]

12. how would they get it into the sushi then??

I am assuming that is how they did it.

[Zynx]

14. You can hold any amount in your hand so long as you don't inhale it.

Probably wouldn't want to hold a gram or more - that much will self-heat to 500 degrees from all the radiation.

[cassiepriam]

15. OK, they could have easily put it in his drink then??

[kestrel91316]

25. Time for background checks on the sushi chefs. The one you want to

look closest at is the one who recently seems to have "come into some money".

[cassiepriam]

27. ...Or who was in an "accident" recently.

[kestrel91316]

29. Yeah, that's actually more likely.

[hippiechick]

31. If his wife is poisoned also, it may have been in a cigarette(s).

Someone on DU posited that theory yesterday <?>.
Makes an incredible lot of sense for an inhalable yet mostly untraceable murder weapon, no?

[cassiepriam]

32. Yes I read that post too, brilliant and diabolical way to deliver the poison.

But the wife could have been contaminated via sexual activity?

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. 'adult member of Litvinenko's family' has also tested positive

BBC news ticker now: http://news.bbc.co.uk/

TV news said the amount was not thought to be enough to cause immediate health effects, and the long term risks would not be very high. They've also evacuated the hotel at which Scaramella was staying.

[deminks]

17. Thanks for the update. Here is another link re family member

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L01360051.htm

[deminks]

19. CNN now saying it is Litvinenko's wife that has tested positive.

Not enough apparently to do harm in the short term.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/12/01/friday/index.html?section=cnn_latest

[AZBlue]

21. It's his wife.

eom

[NickB79]

22. Is it possible to spread radioactive material through sex?

Assuming his wife didn't come with him to the restaurant and that she wasn't also poisoned, that is the only other way I can envision her being contaminated as well. Ugh, this case is just too disturbing on so many levels.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. It just has to be ingested

which might come from just a kiss, I suppose, since such a small amount can be detected - it would depend on what his original dose was, I suppose. Or even not washing your hands after touching your mouth, sneezing, that kind of thing.

[kestrel91316]

26. "It's in his kiss................."

[cassiepriam]

28. Some sexual activity might involve ingesting body fluids...

could she have gotten it that way?

[rainbow4321]

24. Thought it was already reported she and their child were negative

Saw it in an online UK site a few days ago.

[Eugene]

30. Reuters: Russian spy contact says poisoned over shared secrets

Russian spy contact says poisoned over shared secrets
02 Dec 2006 23:56:07 GMT
Source: Reuters

By Adrian Croft and Phil Stewart

LONDON/ROME, Dec 2 (Reuters) - An Italian contact of poisoned former Russian spy
Alexander Litvinenko said he believed both were targeted with a radioactive
substance because of secrets they shared.

Mario Scaramella said on Saturday urine tests showed he had received a potentially
lethal dose of polonium 210 -- the rare radioactive isotope that killed Litvinenko
-- and "dangerous concentrations" of polonium would stay in his body for months.

"I have reason to believe that the poisoning of myself and Litvinenko may be
connected to information that Litvinenko himself, for months, had transmitted
to me," Scaramella said in a statement published by Italian media.

He did not accuse anyone of the poisoning or specify what kind of information
Litvinenko had sent him.

-snip-

Full article: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L02115365.htm