CNN/AP: Bush EPA: Leaded gas may return, along with lower standards

[DeepModem Mom]

Thursday, December 07, 2006
EPA: Leaded gas may return, along with lower standards

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Bush administration is considering doing away with health standards that cut lead from gasoline, widely regarded as one of the nation's biggest clean-air accomplishments.

The Environmental Protection Agency said this week that revoking those standards might be justified "given the significantly changed circumstances since lead was listed in 1976" as an air pollutant, claiming that concentrations of lead in the air have dropped more than 90 percent in the past 2 1/2 decades. Battery makers, lead smelters, refiners all have lobbied the administration to do away with the Clean Air Act limits.

But Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., the incoming chairman of the House Committee on Government Reform, called on the agency to "renounce this dangerous proposal immediately," because lead, a highly toxic element, can cause severe nerve damage, especially in children.

http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/politicalticker/2006/12/epa-leaded-gas-may-return-along-with.html

[More Than A Feeling]

1. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Barbara Boxer will have something to say about this.

Keep dreamin', Bush.

[Deep13]

2. "concentrations of lead in the air have dropped more than 90 percent "

I wonder how that happened.

[Roland99]

22. Well, that gives us lots of room to put more back in! WOO HOO!! Party on!

[PittPoliSci]

74. hah, that's what i was thinking.

[ArbustoBuster]

30. Every time I presume the Bush thugs don't think we're idiots, I'm proven wrong.

They do things that only a complete imbecile - someone who makes your average Freeper look like a genius - would believe are good ideas, and they keep expecting to get away with it.

Of course, they do keep getting away with it, but that was because they held the White House, Congress, and Supreme Court. Not any more, guys!

[Lisa]

41. "Battery makers, lead smelters, refiners"

Weren't anti-lead laws created to PROTECT us from those kinds of industries? Of COURSE they don't think lead creates health problems. (I believe that the specific term describing this situation is "conflict of interest".)

Chicken coop, meet fox.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. Please tell me you made this up. And the site is from Onion.

PLEASE.

My nephew suffered from lead poisoning, 10 yrs later he is doing great. but back then, well, there were problems.

These assholes are unbelievable.

[DeepModem Mom]

7. I know. I wish we could stop this insanity NOW. nt

[jpak]

4. More lead in the air = more morans = more GOP votes

brilliant move ChimpCo!!

[tabasco]

71. I think you're on to something here!

This is another assault in the dumbing down of America!

Creating more zombie republican voters. OMG.

Ya' know, I'm trying to laugh but with these people, anything is possible.

[Poll_Blind]

5. Are you fucking kidding me? Let's bring back DDT while we're at it!

PB

[Eurobabe]

9. Don't stop there!! Bring back parathion, chlordane

all the good shit!

On edit, please put lead back into paint, we need more brain damaged kids from chewing on windowsills too!

[KansDem]

36. And don't forget Paraquat!

Pure paraquat ingested is highly toxic to animals and humans, and there are no specific antidotes. Death may be delayed up to 30 days after ingestion. Diluted paraquat used for spraying is less so, thus the greatest risk of accidental poisoning is during mixing and loading paraquat for use.<1>

According to the Center for Disease Control, small to medium exposure causes symptoms such as liver, lung, heart, and kidney failure within several days to several weeks. Those who suffer large exposures are unlikely to survive. Chronic exposure can lead to lung damage, kidney failure, heart failure, and esophageal strictures.<2>

Paraquat-induced toxicity in rats has also been linked to Parkinson's-like pathological degenerative mechanisms. <3>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraquat

Oh, wait...I don't think it ever left!

[Frank Cannon]

45. And don't forget hexachlorophene and cyclamates!

It's 1966 all over again!

[Hand]

39. DDT! Pfui! Bring back DIOXINS!

Hell,look how few there are out there!

[Pachamama]

48. I think we should bring back x-raying our children's feet for determining their shoe size while we

are at it! It's so much more accurate in determing exact sizes... :sarcasm:

[Poll_Blind]

60. OMG, I remember reading about that in Stephen King's IT. I think...

....he was making some metaphor about PennyWise's deadlights. Freaked me out.

PB

[Up2Late]

66. I guess you missed it, but they proposed that a few months ago too!

Here's the link:

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2513852>

[Poll_Blind]

67. Ack! Sickening! What the hell is wrong with their minds? n/t

PB

[johnaries]

84. Where have you been? They're trying.

http://www.supportjohnstossel.org/ddtinfo.html

On January 23, 2003, ABC ran "Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity," a special program produced by John Stossel. The program debunked many common myths, but most importantly it challenged the myth that the pesticide DDT is a public health threat. Stossel showed that radical environmentalist attacks on DDT as well as politically correct U.S. Agency for International Development policies against funding of DDT mean that millions of children in the developing world needlessly die every year from malaria.

[Atman]

6. Why doesn't Bush just come right out and dump shit into our water supply?

Use people's swimming pools as sludge tanks for toxic waste? They can just pump feces and medical waste and stuff right into our basements, to save Bush's big contributors the onerous task of having to fill out paperwork.

What the fuck is wrong with this man? His evil madness is starting to even make Dick "Dick" Cheney appear sane!

[fjc]

8. Because he's till dumping it into our culture and air supply.

[brooklynite]

16. Nonsense...

everyoone knows the private sector can do this more efficiently than the government...

[Gidney N Cloyd]

10. It's the "Leave No Lungs Behind Act of 2006"

[Dr.Phool]

11. Say good-bye to your cars engine.

Removing lead was the main reason for improving the lifespan of a car's engine. Lead will destroy all the complex sensors, your valves, etc.

Before they removed lead, nobody would think about buying a car with more than 80,000 miles on it.

[uncle ray]

14. you don't know much about cars, do you?

one of the main reasons lead was included in gas was because it helped reduce valve seat wear. it was the main rallying point for people who drove old cars when lead was phased out. the improved longevity of modern engines has more to do with improved metallurgy, manufacturing techniques and tolerances than the reformulation of the fuel.

no, i don't want lead back in gas either.

[alfredo]

18. Planned obsolecence. 100,000 + mile engines cuts

sales. Remember back in the good ole days. A car lasted 3 years.

[eppur_se_muova]

21. Actually, it poisons the catalyst in the catalytic converters.

What's a catalytic converter? Oh, just something the Big Three automakers fought tooth and nail to prevent becoming standard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter

[hedgehog]

72. I've always thought the Big 3 pushed catalytic converters

as a means of getting Congress to back down on Clean Air Standards. There are other, more direct ways to control unwanted combustion products such as not making them in the first place, but that would have required new engine designs.

[pokercat999]

78. To drive your modern vehicle on leaded gas you

would have to remove the catalytic converter which in turn might require removing several other parts of the emission control system. This would not be cheap or easy. I think leaded gas is out forever. The most serious danger is from the other industries on the list.

[Cass]

12. Do these people sit up at night thinking of the most offensive and moronic things to propose??

:wtf:

This is so outlandish that I cannot get my head wrapped around the fact that anyone could propose this with a straight face.

[rman]

33. They do this all the time,

they only get caught on occasion.

[Lisa]

44. Yes. "(The terrorists) never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country ...

... and our people, and neither do we."

George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

http://www.dubyaspeak.com/search.phtml?nq=harm&stype=all&em=

[Pachamama]

49. I've wondered the same and I think the answer may be yes, because I can't even fathom how this much

crap and destructive policies could be happening by accident....

Every time I think that nothing could shock me any more than they have, they actually manage to propose something that does shock me even more....I think the other thing just last week that made me shake my head in disbelief was the appointment of a person to head up the family planning and that person is essentially opposed to family planning and birth control.... :banghead:

[Red Zelda]

13. Lead? DDT?

Stuff them up Barbara Bush's backside.

[Demeter]

15. ARE THEY NUTS?

I can't shake my head fast enough.

[Zorra]

28. Yes, they are totally nuts, and this EPA, the Bu*h administration

and former republican Congress, have proven to the world that they are crazier than shithouse rats over and over.

We desperately need to take the WH in '08 in order to keep these lunatics from destroying the planet.

[Straight Shooter]

17. I've got a great idea! Let's increase the use of freon, asbestos, and formaldehyde, too.

:banghead:

[Lisa]

42. yeah -- didn't the guy who invented CFCs also invent leaded gasoline?

http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Lead-History.htm

[endarkenment]

19. What?

"given the significantly changed circumstances since lead was listed in 1976" - what sort of criminal mumbo-jumbo is this? The changed circumstances are that as a result of removing lead from products lead pollution has been drastically reduced. So we should undo that? Are they FUCKING NUTS? WERE THEY EXPOSED TO TOO MUCH LEAD AS BABIES?

[pitohui]

20. truly this man has gone mad

okay, that does it, he is indeed the worst president ever, worse than reagan, worse than grant!

what positive purpose is served by doing such a thing? is he shitting on this country just to prove he can?

mr bush, if you hate us so much, please resign, thank you

[buddysmellgood]

23. Just when you thought they couldn't sink lower. Evil, evil, evil people.

[eppur_se_muova]

24. Some background on lead in gasoline ... a very dirty history ... (link)

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/eppur_se_muova/5

If they allow leaded gasoline, they will probably allow lead in paint again, too. It was lead in paint chips, eaten by toddlers in run-down urban buildings (kids will put anything in their mouths), that was responsible for much of the lead ingested by poor, urban children.

(We already have lower standards, just look who's in the White House.)

[Lisa]

43. and some more info on lead phaseout (saved at least $700 million)

Of course, everybody knows that the National Academy of Sciences, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the World Bank are a bunch of ignorant hysterical treehuggers who are making a huge fuss about nothing.

http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Lead-History.htm#history


1980s:
1980. National Academy of Sciences calls leaded gasoline greatest source of atmospheric lead pollution.
1981. Vice President George Bush's Task Force on Regulatory Relief proposes to relax or eliminate US leaded gas phaseout.
1982. Reagan Administration reverses opposition to lead phaseout.
1983. Between 1976 and 1980, EPA reports, amount of lead consumed in gasoline dropped 50 percent. Blood-lead levels dropped 37 percent. Benefits of phaseout exceed costs by $700 million.
1986. Primary phaseout of leaded gas in US completed.


1990s:
1992. Rio environmental summit calls for worldwide lead phaseout.
1994. Study shows that US blood-lead levels declined by 78 percent from 1978 to 1991.
1994. American Academy of Pediatrics study shows direct relationship between lead exposure and IQ deficits in children.
1996. World Bank calls for world phaseout of leaded gasoline.

[Up2Late]

69. "eating lead paint chips" is a Red Herring, it's the accumulation of Lead in Urban Soil that's...

...the biggest problem, which directly links back to Lead in Gasoline. Lead in paint contributes to the problem too, but is much more localized and not nearly as common as Children playing in Lead contaminated Urban play areas.

Check out the link to the May 1995 report on this at my post, link below:

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2643590&mesg_id=2645463>..

[The Stranger]

25. Holy fuck -- Is this satire?

[JerseygirlCT]

26. You mean it was working, so we ought to stop doing it? nt

[AlCzervik]

27. oh those were the days, Pintos with exploding gas tanks, asbestos in everything

yup, back to the future.

[calimary]

29. But hey, at least them queers can't get married...

Jesus, Mary and Joseph - LEAD BACK IN GASOLINE???????????????

You know, if I had a nickel for every "up-yours" bush has thrown our way, I could probably buy him out.

[central scrutinizer]

31. Why stop there?

Let's just do away with all regulations on everything. Corporations can use whatever they want, whenever and wherever they want, with no oversight. Do away with EPA, OSHA, all of those drags on profit. But only after we have comprehensive tort reform so they can't be sued ever, for anything.

[FiveGoodMen]

68. That's the entire purpose of the Bush pResidency in a nutshell.

That's exactly what the corporations spent money on Bush's campaign for in the first place.

Just exactly that and nothing else!

[SnowGoose]

32. Let 'em go ahead and propose the change.

Remember how Bush handled the Arsenic in drinking water issue? IIRC, in the end, the administration went ahead and adopted the new standard proposed by the Clinton administration, but by blocking it first "for further study" put them in a very bad light.

Those issues tended to get overshadowed by the 9-11 tragedy, but while people were paying attention, they were pissed. People tend to absorb things that confirm their preconceptions. People have an image of Bush as a friend of pollution. If they actually propose putting lead back in gasoline, this will become the emblem of this issue, just as the man with the black hood and wires became the emblem of US human rights abuses in Iraq.

It'll never pass muster ~ the public outcry will be way too powerful.

An interesting tidbit for those interested in this issue: the Ethyl corporation (the original suppliers of tetraethyl lead for gasoline) have been pushing a replacement product called methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT) as an octane booster. It has many similarities with the lead compound - in particular, it contains a neurotoxic heavy metal (manganese) that is released in the exhaust of engines burning the compound. The toxicokinetics of manganese are different than lead, but there is still concern over the potential neurological effects, and it seems like we just didn't learn the lessons of lead.

[Strelnikov_]

34. And All Those Catalytic Converters On Cars?

Concentrations of lead won't be the only thing going up.

[truthisfreedom]

35. they're idiots. not a shred of science involved in anything they do.

these sorts of proposals are floated just to irritate environmentalists and make Democrats look shrill.

[CreekDog]

37. EPA has authority to set standards for pollutants

What the Congress says about that may not actually have any effect.

Consider that.

It was my understanding that we don't have a lead problem in the air because of the regulation. The lack of a problem doesn't obviate the need for the standard, in fact, it supports the idea that the standard is doing its job.

Egads.

[Toucano]

50. The EPA's authority comes from laws passed by congress.

Those laws can be changed if need be.

[DuaneBidoux]

38. I predict it will not happen. n/t

[Telly Savalas]

64. Agreed.

It's a bit much.

The reason for floating this completely psychotic proposal is probably so that their normal day-to-day anti-environmental policies will look rational and moderate in comparison.

[One_Life_To_Give]

40. 25 days before CA Bans Lead in Electronics

* wants to put it back into it's biggest historic source of environmental polution.

I thought banning Lead Solder was a bit much. But putting it back it "Regular" automotive fuel is nuts. So much for high mileage motor oils. Change it every 3000 miles with lead in you gas.

[IDemo]

56. RoHS was a European initiative, so * feels obliged to undo its effects

RoHS: Reduction of Hazardous Substances

Europe Enters 'Age of Lead-free Electronics'

[mc jazz]

79. lead free soldering FYI

At the electronics factory I work in we switched to lead free (except military)
There were some problems with higher temperatures, component supply is complicated but I think the changeover has proved it can be done and this was without government help as far as I know industry worked it out themselves

Putting lead back in gas, why?
I drive a 1988 Nissan that runs on lead free and it's fine, this would be inconceivable in Britain, it would be like putting CFC's back into fridges!!!

[MurrayDelph]

46. Waxman: "lead, a highly toxic element, can cause severe nerve damage..."

Bush to Waxman: Go on! It ain't hurt ME none!

[mcscajun]

47. Ohhhhkaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay. Now I really HAVE seen everything

At least I HOPE I've seen everything; I know I'm wrong. In fact, we all are; whenever we even remotely think about thinking we've seen the stupidest, vilest, craziest thing Bush could POSSIBLY do, we stand back in horror as he pulls yet another stupid, vile, or crazy statement, act, or proposal out of his bottomless sack of Republican manure.

I don't believe this. :banghead: I don't believe this. :banghead: I don't believe this.:banghead: I don't believe this.:banghead:I don't believe this. :banghead:

[Kellyiswise]

51. Store in memory bank for 2008.

This should make a really good campaign issue.

[PCIntern]

52. GREAT!!! Then I won't have to put the additive

in my Volvo P-1800 anymore.

Just kidding, just kidding...Relax.

...and I only drive in once every 2 weeks or so...so stay calm...

[myrna minx]

53. How do they dream up this kind of evil?!

:crazy:

[pinniped]

54. They're sure lobbying the right kind of asshole.

Battery makers, lead smelters, refiners all have lobbied the administration to do away with the Clean Air Act limits.

Let's also bring back hydraulic mining. Those hillsides are pissing me off and the rivers and streams could use the extra sediment anyways. Let's fuck them all up again.

[slackmaster]

55. This is nonsense

Car engines were redisigned in significant ways in order to run properly on unleaded gasoline.

Modifying to run on leaded would involve MUCH more than simply removing the catalytic converter.

If sanity doesn't intervene first, the car makers will kill that idea.

[JVS]

57. If a car has a catalytic converter you'll still need unleaded

[bloom]

58. I wonder if they come out with crap like this

to take up time from enacting positive change.


It's hard to believe anyone could be thinking this is a good idea.

[loveandlight]

59. that's what I wonder too

I think the way this administration has worked in the past is to just throw everything possible into the mix and see what gets through. Since there is so much to watch out for, some things will just glide right through without notice. Putting lead back into circulation is just the kind of insane idea they might propose to keep us from seeing what other things they are really concerned about getting through without notice. But, in addition, now that the Democrats are coming in, throwing up every possible roadblock to make it difficult for them to enact the things they really want to take care of is probably the latest strategy for the idiot in chief. Because we all know doing something positive is way beyond his capabilities.

[deminks]

61. What a legacy, Smirk!

You spent trillions, killed thousands, scared millions, put the Earth on the brink of destruction, stopped the queers and the baby killers, made the rich richer and the poor poorer, stoked the flames of hatred everywhere, tortured, destroyed our own cities, raised the criminally insane to unknown levels of power, and now put lead back in the air. (I'm sure I've left out vast numbers of your accomplishments).

It's hard werk, ain't it Chimpy?

[DeepModem Mom]

62. Well said -- a vast swath of destruction! nt

[NoodleyAppendage]

63. Please notify me of when the coup de' etat starts. I'm ready with my pitchfork & torch.

At what point does the US citizenry say "enough is enough" and just storms the WH en masse to ride the Chimp out on a rail? It's high-time for a popular revolt.

J

[Up2Late]

65. OMG! Have they NO SHAME on anything?!?! The problem is not just the Air, it ends up in the Soil too!

Un-F*cking-believable!:banghead:

If anyone here has any doubt that this would be a stupid thing to reverse, please read this excellent article from May 2005 on the subject:

Lead’s Toxic Urban Legacy and Children’s Health

Howard W. Mielke

Sidebars:
Lead-heavy cities

Lead linked to violence

In a 1980 report to the National Academy of Sciences, geochemist Clair C. Patterson wrote an astonishing sentence: “Sometime in the near future it probably will be shown that the older urban areas of the United States have been rendered more or less uninhabitable by the millions of tons of poisonous industrial lead residues that have accumulated in cities during the past century.”

Fourteen percent of all children in New Orleans and 25 percent of children in its inner-city areas are exposed to potentially dangerous levels of lead in the soil. The children either directly inhale the lead particles or are exposed from hand-to-mouth contact in play areas. Projects in New Orleans and elsewhere are trying to reduce and eliminate this risk. All images courtesy of Howard Mielke.

That grim prediction is proving true, with lead poisoning now endemic in inner-city areas of major U.S. cities. In inner-city New Orleans, for example, a quarter of all children are excessively exposed to lead, according to recent studies.

Although the United States has seen a significant decline in lead poisoning as a result of bans on lead in paint and especially as an additive in gasoline, lead’s legacy remains in the soils of our cities. Fortunately, geoscientists and others are coming up with ways to combat this health problem and close the book on lead poisoning in the environment.

(more at links) <http://www.agiweb.org/geotimes/may05/feature_leadlegacy.html>

<http://www.agiweb.org/geotimes/may05/feature_leadlegacy.html#sidebar1>

[Boo Boo]

70. There is not a chance in hell of this happening. It's a distraction. /nt

[hedgehog]

73. I don't know what everyone is worried about, after all, lead breaks down

in the environment after a few years into, um, lesse here, LEAD!

I worked some years ago in a refinery on a project to replace the pipes that were used to inject the ethyl lead compound into gasoline. The stuff was so lethal the pipes had to have special flanges and an oderant added to ensure that if it leaked everyone cleared out. If you really want to curl your hair, find out what happened to the first guys employed in making and shipping the poison!

[Heewack]

75. It won't happen.

Our cars today will be damaged by leaded gasoline. There will be no demand. This has more to do with battery makers.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

76. I'm glad.

It'll NEVER pass; and it's just more evidence of what a nutcase Dumbyass is.

[colorado_ufo]

77. Nucking futs.

[all.of.me]

80. then bring back lead-based paint, too!

:crazy:

[orleans]

82. no shit. (what the hell is wrong with these people? argh!) n/t

[area51]

81. republinazi party

Once again, the republinazi party proves that they are anti-child and anti-life.

[LeftyMom]

83. There aren't enough cars on the road that can run it that anybody would bother to stock it.

Even in inland California, where the mild weather and lack of snow or salt air means a car can last almost forever with proper care and a little luck, only a bare fraction of the cars I see out on the roads are old enough that they were built for leaded fuel.

Before one even looks at the effect on the environment or on car longevity, the simple fact of the matter is nobody's fool enough to bother trying to sell the stuff. It makes about as much sense as putting in a TAB machine.

[Uncle Joe]

85. Bush is such a wimp, if he were a real man, we could have polonium too!

Why on earth take all these half measures on killing humanity, he needs to go back to Russia, look in to Putin's eyes for some more soul and see how a professional does it!:sarcasm: