Olympic bomber Rudolph unhappy with Colorado prison

[Gman]

Dec. 10, 2006, 3:24PM
Olympic bomber Rudolph unhappy with Colorado prison

FLORENCE, Colo. — Olympic bomber Eric Rudolph laments in a series of letters to a newspaper that the maximum-security federal prison where he is spending the rest of his life is designed to drive him insane.

"It is a closed-off world designed to isolate inmates from social and environmental stimuli, with the ultimate purpose of causing mental illness and chronic physical conditions such as diabetes, heart disease and arthritis," he wrote in one letter to The Gazette of Colorado Springs.

Rudolph wrote that he spends 23 hours a day in his 7-by-12-foot cell, his only exercise confined to an enclosed area he described as a "large empty swimming pool" divided into "dog-kennel style cages."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/nation/4392122.html

---------------------------------------

Every now and then there's some good news about the right wing.

[babylonsister]

1. Boo-fuckin'-hoo. My heart bleeds - NOT! nt

[Journeyman]

2. "Natch. That's what prison's all about."

-Zonker Harris

[zreosumgame]

93. Personally I do think the rape and abuse

needs to stop, but in essence the denial of contact with society for lifers is the point. It is my opinion however that for those destined to someday rejoin us outside those walls that the isolation and abuse only makes it worse on us in the long run.

[SKKY]

97. His 7x12 cell is a hell of a lot bigger than my bearthing was on...

...my last ship, and we slept 9 people in there. No sympathy here.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SKKY]

99. Ok, how about we refrain from insulting eachothers "capacity"...

...I didn't even address you, so I don't know why you feel the need to insult me, or my lack of "capacity"? When was I shouting? Did I type in all caps? Nope, didn't think so. You take a tremendous amount of freedom in providing "color commentary" to what, in my view, was a very simple post. To answer your question, no, I didn't get "skull-fucked", or have my "teeth knocked out." But then again, I didn't wage a terror campaign against abortion clinics and against the homosexual agenda either. I suppose if I had done either of those things, I would have it coming to me.

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flamingyouth]

3. ...

:nopity:

[db in nyc]

4. Aww, poor thing...

Maybe he'd feel more comfortable at Gitmo.

[screenplaya]

5. Awesome!

Maybe this will cause the next self grandiose idealog nutjob murder to think twice.

[LiberalFighter]

8. They always think they won't be caught... they think they are too smart

[screenplaya]

120. Sounds like George W.

Thinking he's so smart and won't get caught. Maybe if Bush had not been using our money to fund his campaign of slander before the election, he might have been able to get his supposed IRAQ plan done before winter break. Party on George!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

6. 7 x 12 cell?

Shit, my apartment's barely bigger than that, and I have to pay rent. WTF is that hate-filled, POS terrorist complaining about? Suck it up, asshole.

[krispos42]

67. Bigger than an standard 8x10

84 ft² versus 80. Luxury! 4 extra square feet.

And he should be happy he's alone 23 hours a day. That some big guy named 'Rocks' hasn't adopted him as his bitch.

[ulysses]

7. sucks to be you, Eric.

[shanti]

94. ha!

that's exactly what i said to myself! ;)

[Catherine Vincent]

9. I was visiting my parents today and we watched the news,

and it was mentioned how he is upset at his confinement in prison. I told my parents that's too bad, he shouldn't have murdered innocent people because he doesn't agree with them. What a jerkweed.

[wakeme2008]

10. I am anti-Death Penalty but he killed people and did not get the DP so

this sounds just right for him for the rest of his long life.....

[alfredo]

72. Death is the easy way out. Are his conditions cruel and

unusual? That might be what he is trying to establish.

[Mike Daniels]

86. Actually, I think the conditions are about right for someone who likely isn't

ever going to be remorseful and who took the lives of others.

[alfredo]

88. There's no rehabilitating him. I think he is trying to inflame the

Christian right.

[Olney Blue]

11. I wonder who he thinks will care.

[mcscajun]

12. Indeed!

Nobody sane, free, and who recalls his crimes will care, certainly.

:nopity: :nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity:

[Vogon_Glory]

60. Probably The Same People Who Think David Koresh Was A Hero n/t

[Lance_Boyle]

64. Lots of 'people'

in the mountains around NC, SC, TN and GA - the "people" who helped hide this worthless filth for years because he's a good "Christian" man who was just doing "Gawd's work" when he bombed all those clinics, nevermind the Olympics. They're probably still eager to support this terrorist.

[leftofthedial]

13. I hope we'll get an update when

he becomes mentally ill

[momster]

57. Too late

He has quite obviously been out of his mind for years. *Sane* people don't do the things he did.

[leftofthedial]

85. ummm....

yeah.


I'm a little too subtle I guess.

[Poll_Blind]

14. Well, Ewik, ya did kill an inncent person and wound alot more when...

...you bombed the Olympics. Oh, and the abortion clinics you bombed. And I don't think it's the prison that's driving you insane, hoss, it's having to think about the futility of your actions and the shitty justifications you used- that's what's driving you insane.

PB

[customerserviceguy]

52. You're assuming a semblance of a conscience

and for me, that's a pretty big leap here.

[AlCzervik]

15. huh a 7 x 12 cell sure beats the coffin his victims are in.

boofuckinghoo asshole.

[mcscajun]

16. "...designed to drive him insane." He was clearly insane to begin with.

He wouldn't know what sanity was if it took bodily form and smacked him in the back of the head with a 2 by 4.

Why this newspaper continues to correspond with him is beyond me, but hey, whatever sells the newspapers, right? :sarcasm:

I have no sympathy for him. The people he killed are gone; he is not. The families of those he killed, all those he wounded with his attacks and their families, can at least comfort themselves knowing he is NOT comfortable, and that he is confined where he can do no further damage.

[ItNerd4life]

83. Clearly insane to begin with...

My thoughts exactly. If the cell IS meant to drive him insane, and he's already insane, will 2 negatives make a positive and he'll become sane? :P

[Katzenjammer]

92. Exactly. Even the joke about it being only a short putt doesn't fit.

He was barking nuts going in.

Of course that's sort of standard for the really loony ones: they're the last to know.

[Botany]

17. Tell that to the nurse who lost an eye in the clinic you bombed

Please.

[anotherdrew]

18. such supermax prisons may indeed constitute a form of torture (cruel and unusual) n/t

[Bluzmann57]

23. As an opponent to the death penalty

I think the supermax is a just punishment for a bastard like Rudolph. He represents wrongness in humanity and needs to think about what he has done. Screw him and all criminals like him. They are nothing more than dirty murdering pieces of shit and are getting exactly what they deserve. A lifetime of hell.

[kestrel91316]

25. Supermax is entirely APROPRIATE for Eric Rudolph. Nuff said.

It's PUNISHMENT, not summer camp.

[cali]

35. Supermax prisons are not appropriate

for any human beings, no matter how heinous their crimes.

[darkism]

38. Prison should not be about punishment.

It's about rehabilitating someone into a better person. Even though Rudolph will never be released and even though he committed a heinous crime, that doesn't make subjecting him to subhuman conditions ok.

[laylah]

58. The penal system

in this country is punitive, period! There are more incarcerated here than anywhere else in the world. This all started in the late '80's when Raygun shut the mental institutions down, along with day treatment and neighborhood treatment programs. That debacle opened up the prison industry to what it is today, and an industry it is. I agree with you, darkism, he, and others housed in these facilities committed heinous acts but treating them like animals, imvho, is just as heinous.

Jenn

[AnneD]

66. Prisons in the US

are subject to laws and are monitored. They are not subhuman, actually they are very humane compared to other countries.

Part of rehabilitation is solitude, penitence, and reflection. Perhaps it is this solicitude for reflection that he cannot tolerate. Or perhaps it is the sound of his conscience or soul. He is there for penitence first. From penitence comes rehabilitation. One has to be broken down in order to be rebuilt into something better. This is the basis for boot camps etc. One need only look at Malcolm X to see what changes can be made in a person if conditions are right. There are examples even in the Bible (Moses, the nation of Israel, Hagar, etc).

Frankly, he needs to better use his time.

[Critters2]

104. I disagree. I think prison should first be about public safety.

There are some people who should not be in society--for the safety of the rest of us. Rudolph is such a person. Being separated from society is a natural consequence of behavior such as his. I don't think he should be brutalized, but he should be kept in as secure a setting as possible.

All that said, I don't feel very sorry for him.

[anotherdrew]

41. they're APROPRIATE for the Lex Luthor/Dr. Doom types, that's where I draw the line n/t

[crikkett]

62. Appropriate.

just sayin'
:eyes:

[originalpckelly]

26. This man had a fair and square trial, and he doesn't have to worry about...

the viciousness of other prisoners in his prison life. He's pretty damn lucky if you ask me.

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. I'm against the death penalty and against supermax prisons

It doesn't really matter. They cause far more problems than they solve even as a penal matter, and they will be phased out over the next 15 years. Mr. Rudolph will end up in some form of gen pop before long before the form of his confinement gives him heart disease.

Between the celebration of prison rape, the torture fantasies of the death panalty proponents (and the ones who are "against the death penalty" oh - "except in this case," always "except in this case), and the open glee over SuperMax prisons, I'm often bewildered by the punishment lust that manifests orgasmically on these boards. It's not principled. It's far too affect oriented for that. I won't try to talk anyone out of it, because it is a pathology. Our society needs serious help, is all I'll say.

[sweetheart]

36. well said, best post in the thread

This lust to torture others is sick; no matter what the crime, the lust is unbecoming.

[phusion]

68. thanks for saying this...

I was really surprised by the response to this story here on DU. I absolutely agree with you and I think that US (and worldwide) penal system is an absolute disgrace.

[Lilith Velkor]

84. I notice the same pathology i/r/t conscription

There are some who seem very angry and resentful about the fact that non-veterans are allowed to vote. I wonder why they are not encouraged more strongly to post fascist crap elsewhere. Perhaps that is another symptom of our society's illness.

[Warpy]

19. Hey, ERIC! Yer ALREADY NUTS!

There isn't a whole lot crazier you can go, boy.

Now you can cry me a river and go jump in it and drown.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

20. Let's see

he was arrested after evidence was obtained that allowed the authorities to get a warrant. He was given the right to an attorney as soon as he was arrested. He was given a fair trial; if he thinks it isn't fair, he has the rights to an appeal.

Now let's consider all the people at Guantanimo who aren't guilty of terrorist activities like Rudolph.....

[Eugene]

21. He could use that time to think about the people he killed and maimed.

Instead Rudolph seems to be simmering in his own hate.
He is right where he belongs.

[theHandpuppet]

22. Sure beats the six foot coffin of the woman he murdered

May your life be long and miserable, Rudolph.

[ck4829]

24. Oh, Eric Rudolph, let's all throw a BIG pity party for you

And go on about the HORRIBLE living conditions you have to endure 24/7 for the rest of your life. Boo hoo, boo hoo.

:sarcasm:

:nopity:

[lateo]

27. b-o-o-h-o-o

Tough

[pitohui]

29. ask me if i care EOM

,

[Ignacio Upton]

30. Hey Eric, it could be worse

You should be thankful that you are a right-wing terrorist, or else your ass would be in Gitmo and you would be getting water-boarded as I write this post.

[davidinalameda]

31. let me echo the "fuck him" comments

[SeattleVet]

32. "...designed to drive him insane." ??? He was already most of the way there

when he started with the bombing, wasn't he?

Drive him insane? No way it's a drive - at this point it's barely a short putt.

[Zorra]

33. Now we know where to send PNAC war criminals after they get

convicted.

[fujiyama]

34. Is he the freepers' Mumia?

I wouldn't be surprised if freepers would be in full agreement with him.

And unlike Mumia, this guy killed several people...but I'm sure in the freeper's view he was just acting as a good Christian.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

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[wakeme2008]

43. No Supermax are just right for Assholes killers like him

Sorry I will not shed a tear over his nice living conditions..

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

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[wakeme2008]

46. There is nothing wrong with his cell, it is nice if you check it out

new, got a TV.

He blew up ppl, he now is getting punished.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[w4rma]

65. I don't support the death penalty for anyone, but I sure as heck support this. (nt)

[ronnykmarshall]

73. Excuse me while I whip this out ...

:nopity:

[depakid]

39. That America- or Americans- treat anyone like this

is a source of shame for all of us.

Oh, and BTW: while some of you all are gloating- did you catch this headline?

We're Number 1!

US Has the Most Prisoners in the World

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1209-01.htm

[the other one]

55. Thankyou for some sanity

I am against the death penalty without equivocation. I am also against stripping a person of his dignity. That anyone who calls themselves liberal or progressive can support the warehousing of human beings under any pretext is astonishing.

(its early - my sentences are all turning into run-ons...)

[Odin2005]

106. Fuckers like him don't derserve dignity.

[donheld]

40. There's a Waaaaaaaaaambulance on the way

Poor bastard.

[Psephos]

42. Supermax and solitary confinement are worse than death

Death is a natural and inevitable part of every life. Supermax incarceration is grossly unnatural, a technological suspension of all that is human. It turns the inmate into a receptacle to hold a beating heart until disease or age snuffs it out. How is this not cruel or unusual?

I do not support the death penalty, for those who think that's where I'm headed.

Mr. Rudolph should never be unleashed again upon society. But I can't support Supermax incarceration, even for a criminal like him. Supermax is a sterile (and thus, more vicious) form of extreme punishment for punishment's sake alone. It destroys something fundamental in both the prisoner and the society that dreams it up and funds it. No additional benefit from this extra punishment accrues to either prisoner or society. To the contrary, both pay a heavy price (in the case of society, quite literally). It is, in other words, irrational.

Rudolph belongs in a normal high-security prison, with the same highly-limited benefits other dangerous criminals receive.

My opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

Peace.

[wakeme2008]

44. Mr. Rudolph is were him belongs

Go worry over the families of the ppl he killed.

[tomhayes]

49. Why not do both??

n/t

[truebrit71]

71. I would go out of my mind....

...worse than death if you ask me...

[ronnykmarshall]

74. Blowing someone up is grossly unnatural.

[cornermouse]

47. Gee. That's too bad...

:eyes:

[xchrom]

50. and the wheels on the boo-hoo bus go round and round --

now really eric -- how did you think this was all going to end?

[leftchick]

51. he isn't a "bomber" he is a terrorist!!!

And had he been a democrat and not a fundie freeper he would be in GITMO and spend his days being waterboarded. He should be thankful. :eyes:

[bklyncowgirl]

53. Awwww. Poor baby.

Hey Rudolph:

If you'd been a Muslim who set off a bomb at a crowded event and blew up health care facilities you'd in Gitmo.

Be thankful for small favors.

[psychopomp]

54. Your attitude is disgusting

Sorry, I would not wish such a fate on anybody. Such sensory deprivation is cruelty that is akin to sadism. When we agree to such treatment we become no better than those we condemn.

We don't have to give them much but this is the stuff of deranged nightmares.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

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[Vogon_Glory]

59. Golly Gee, Eric Rudolph! Isn't That A Cryin' Shame?

Golly Gee, Eric Rudolph, isn't it a cryin' shame that you're locked up in Supermax?

Peronally, I think that Supermax is a fine place for murderous bombers and I hope you remain confined until at least your decrepitude. :evilgrin:

[tabasco]

61. Maybe you should have thought about that before you went on your murder spree.

Rot, mf.

Count me among the unenlightened who don't care if prison sucks for guys like this.

Let the pot dealers out and lock up guys like Rudolph forever.

[Hand]

63. Move him to Abu Ghraib! nt

[slackmaster]

69. Thanks for the bright spot in this morning's otherwise dull news

:toast:

[yellowcanine]

70. Isn't he a Christofascist? All he should need is a Bible and his right hand to entertain himself.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mitchum]

76. And after the very sympathetic bush Justice Department offered...

him such a sweet plea bargain. Ingrate.
Why didn't the Justice Department pursue a death penalty case against him?
Why weren't those who helped him charged with criminal conspiracy?
Hmmmm...

I have no pity, compassion, or sympathy for that loathsome monster

[Miss Chybil]

77. Send him to Guantanamo. He's a terrorist. nt

[Javaman]

78. I mean honestly, what did this colossally stupid asshole expect?

one of those country club prisons for the wealthy and well connected? Maybe he was and now maybe he's suddenly realizing that 1) he's a murdering terrorist dumb fuck 2) that he was a tool 3) and he was a murdering terrorist dumb fuck.

This is why I prefer a life term in a horrible prison than the death penalty. This fucking idiot is a perfect example that prison works.

I hope each and every day of his life is miserable and he thinks about all the misery and grief he has caused. Then one day he will die, alone, poor, full of shame without so much as a single mention in the newspapers.

[Vinca]

79. I thought he had the Lord to talk to. What? Not enough anymore?

Boo-freakin'-hoo.

[ileus]

80. Cry me a river....

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wakeme2008]

82. You think he and the Unibomber should have High Tea together

I don't :shrug:

[tomhayes]

87. Shouldn't you add that john Kerry should bring French Cheese?

Way to argue.

[bleedingheart]

105. Mr. Rudolph would have been hung in Dostoevsky's day..

Rudolph killed a police officer and permanently disabled a woman in an abortion clinic bombing
he then killed a woman and injured 100 other innocent people in Olympic Park for his twisted beliefs.

Mr. Rudolph is supposedly a very intelligent person, he should have thought about the consequences of his actions.
He didn't murder someone in a fit of rage. He planned and calculated the murder of innocent people.

I don't believe in the death penalty because I think Mr. Rudolph and others like him should use the time they are confined to think about the consequences of their action. So he writes that prison sucks, but does he write about how remorseful he is? Does he write about how he is to blame for his confinement? Does he ask for forgiveness and is it sincere?...no..it is all about him...he is mad because he got locked up for his crimes.

[Tight_rope]

89. Did they not give him the handbook for maximum-security federal prisons

before you decided to set off bombs. I thought everyone in the US got one of these handbooks.:shrug:

[0007]

90. Hooray hooray for Supermax!

[MindPilot]

91. for those who complain about the cruel and unusual punishment

Mr Rudolf is suffering, here is a firsthand account from one of his victims, Emily Lyons:

On that fateful day I went to work like any other, didn't think anything about it. I woke up and two weeks of my life had passed away that I knew nothing about. As I began to come out of that long sleep I realized something was very wrong. I couldn't talk because there was a tube in my throat to keep me breathing. I wasn't eating either; they had a tube in my nose for that. My eyes wouldn't open. Everything from head to toe was in tremendous pain. My extremities felt like large dead weights that wouldn't move, unless someone moved them for me.

Once I was able to comprehend, they told me a pipe bomb had been placed outside the clinic where I worked. It exploded about 12 feet from where I was standing. This device contained dynamite and nails, and if any of you believe the person accused of this crime did not intend to hurt anyone, think again. After all it was aimed at the front door.

The force of the blast was so strong I was blown out of my shoes and it shredded my clothing. The fireball from a bomb reaches 3000 degrees Centigrade--that's over 5400 degrees Fahrenheit. So I had first, second and third degree burns over most of the front of my body.

The bomb was packed with one and one half inch roofing nails. The FBI drove a crowbar into the ground where the bomb was placed and they tied bright pink strings to every nail that was stuck into the brick of the building. All these strings form a cone. But just to the left of the center of the cone, the missing strings form the outline of a person because that's where I was standing that day and the nails went into me instead of the building.

I have many of those nails and fragments left in my body. They say they can't remove them because it would cause too much damage. The best party trick I know is that we have a large refrigerator magnet at home, and I have many places that magnet just sticks real well. It will pull the skin up on my legs because the nails are so close to the surface. The others are deeper, but I can feel that magnetic tug, so I know where most of them are located. It's just a matter of time before they will work themselves up to have to be removed.

Officer Sanderson was bent over the bomb when it exploded, so his body was literally torn apart. But because he was to the side of the bomb, his body only had a couple of nails in it. The bomb was aimed at the front door, where most of the nails went. This device was not meant to close the clinic or to cause property damage. It was intended to murder.

Now to make sure the bomber killed someone, he stood across the street and he watched us. And when he decided that the two of us were as good as any to kill that day, he pushed the button. He detonated the bomb by remote control and then he walked away. This was no less premeditated murder than if a stranger had walked up to you on the street with a shotgun and pulled the trigger.

According to a Discovery Channel show on bombs, the force usually kills people within 15 feet. Shrapnel kills for several feet beyond that. I was 12 feet from the bomb that day and in the direct line of shrapnel. People heard and felt the explosion for miles around. It's amazing I can hear at all. My left eardrum ruptured eventually, which caused one of my 18 operations that I have had in the first two years.

The first thing the surgeon told my husband that day was that I had a hole the size of your fist in my lower right abdomen. Both my large and small intestines had to be resectioned because there were so many areas that couldn't be repaired. So when people say I'm a gutsy lady, they don't know how literal they are when they say that! Katie Couric said that on the news one day: "Man, she's a gutsy lady."

My right hand was mangled. It was about four times the size it is now. My broken little finger never healed properly so I'll always have that polite pinky finger to drink tea with. It just happened to be the middle finger that had an open joint injury, just tore it apart at the joint and kind of just flopped around. So I will never be able to play the piano or write like I used to, because somebody took that part of my life away from me.

The force of the blast tore the flesh and muscles off the front of my legs. The foot bones in my lower left leg were shattered. My right leg didn't break, which we don't know why, but it did have more muscle and nerve damage than the left leg. My left leg, since it was shattered, had to have four long screws placed into the bone and attached on the outside with a metal rod, which is called an external fixator. It took months to get my what-we-call-"good leg" out of a brace, but it happened that first year.

For several days my legs were covered with pigskin, to help slow the blood loss. Over the next few weeks I was given several pints of blood. As far as blood loss goes, I say that I had a complete oil change that day, because I was down to one third of my blood volume before I reached the hospital and it was only four blocks away.

Now skin will only grow over muscle, not bone, and that's all I had left on the front of my legs. So they split both my calf muscles, then brought part of it around to the front to make a muscle flap. They disconnected my motor nerves, but left my sensory nerves, so when I touch my leg in one place I can feel it in a completely opposite place. I can put an object on my leg and that other place will immediately turn cold. The only thing that really wasn't burned was my left thigh and that's what they used as the donor skin to cover the front of my legs. Skin grafts take months to heal and those were still healing when I finally went home.

My legs don't look great; they're quite ugly. But my husband and I think they're wonderful because they are still attached to my body. The vascular system was destroyed in my left leg, so they had to take the femoral vein from my right leg and turn it upside down and make it into an artery for my left leg. Otherwise the surgeon would have amputated that day. Both my knees have long scars on them where they had to open them up and clean the nails and shrapnel out, because they were literally nailed into position that day and would have never moved again had they not done so.

My right eye orbit and facial bones were broken. The sheer force of the blast was so strong it tore my eyelids off. They had to be sewn back on and my tear ducts reconstructed. They were afraid those tear ducts would never work again, but I proved them wrong on that one. My left eye was torn apart by a one and one-half inch piece of wire that was spinning when it went in. So it just tore everything into pieces. They had to take out what was left, so I have a nice piece of plastic. My right eye was badly damaged, but I've had some great surgeons, so I do have limited vision in that eye now.

snip

If there's one thing I would like to get across to everyone, it's that violence did not work. What the violence did do was to make Officer Sanderson's wife a widow. She has to raise her two children alone. It has cost Worker's Comp over $1 million to put my body back together.

More at: http://ffrf.org/fttoday/2001/dec01/lyons.html

I met this woman, listened to her story, saw the pictures, and I wouldn't think twice about visiting the most agonizing tortuous death I could possible imagine upon Eric Rudolph.

Edited to add link

[Bragi]

96. MindPilot writes...

I met this woman, listened to her story, saw the pictures, and I wouldn't think twice about visiting the most agonizing tortuous death I could possible imagine upon Eric Rudolph.

How sad for you.

- B

[MissB]

108. Very powerful account.

One wonders what sort of reaction anti-abortion folks (the ones who condone violence) have when they read it.

What a woman, btw. Quite the survivor.

[Gelliebeans]

115. Thank you

for reminding us who the real victim here is.
Rudolph had his day in court and he has been judged and I for one don't feel one bit of sympathy for this slimebucket.

[MasonJar]

95. He should have thought of that before he killed innocent people.

My answer to Rudolph is simple, "Who cares."

[The Stranger]

101. Now remind me again why he is a "bomber" and not a "terrorist."

Oh, that's right -- White people cannot be "terrorists."

[Connonym]

102. Oh thank god, for a minute I thought I was on a DU board

:sarcasm:

No human being deserves this. No matter WHAT they did. To treat prisoners this way is to become every bit the animal we accuse them of being.

[bleedingheart]

103. Ask Emily Lyons if she cares....She was left blind in one eye and disabled

by Mr. Rudolph....ask her if she gives a flying rats ass that he doesn't find prison to his liking...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/05/31/rudolph.arrest/

Emily still has fragments of metal in her body from Mr. Rudolph's handiwork, has lost an eye and is on permanent disability...Robert Sanderson was killed....

I think Mr. Rudolph has an eternity in prison to think about why he is there.

[Odin2005]

107. You have no right to complain you muderous bastard.

[iverglas]

109. and yet another outpouring of "liberal" sentiments at DU

Eric Robert Rudolph wasn't just the "Olympic bomber", and I hold no brief for him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Rudolph

Eric Robert Rudolph, also known as the Olympic Park Bomber (born September 19, 1966) is an American domestic terrorist self-identified as being born a Catholic who committed a series of bombings across the southern United States, which killed three people and injured at least 150 others. Rudolph, who according to CNN was "connected with the Christian Identity movement, a militant, racist, and anti-Semitic organization," declared that his bombings were part of a guerrilla campaign against abortion, what he describes as "the homosexual agenda," and perceived support for it from the United States government. He spent years as the FBI's most wanted criminal fugitive, but was eventually caught. In 2005 Rudolph pled guilty to numerous federal and state homicide charges and accepted five consecutive life sentences in exchange for avoiding a trial and the death penalty.

But I do hold a brief for human rights.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Article 5.
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
Article 7
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. In particular, no one shall be subjected without his free consent to medical or scientific experimentation.

CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE
and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment
Article 16
1. Each State Party shall undertake to prevent in any territory under its jurisdiction other acts of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment which do not amount to torture as defined in article 1, when such acts are committed by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. ...

AMERICAN CONVENTION ON HUMAN RIGHTS "PACT OF SAN JOSE, COSTA RICA"
Article 5. Right to Humane Treatment
1. Every person has the right to have his physical, mental, and moral integrity respected.
2. No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman, or degrading punishment or treatment. All persons deprived of their liberty shall be treated with respect for the inherent dignity of the human person. ...

INTER-AMERICAN CONVENTION TO PREVENT AND PUNISH TORTURE
Article 6
... The States Parties likewise shall take effective measures to prevent and punish other cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment within their jurisdiction.

Just for a taste.

Some of you may recall your own Constitution, if nothing else:

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

I thought it was all the rage to believe in the Bill of Rights ... all of it.

A lot of people hereabouts claim to be ready to fight to the death to defend speech that other people think is deserving of censure ... but not too many seem to be ready to defend the right against cruel and unusual punishment of people they don't like.

One of those "first they came for ..." things, I guess. Who cares it if happens to Eric Rudolph? It's never gonna happen to us -- so who gives a shit?

[DemBones DemBones]

110. Well said. I'm shocked at the comments on this thread.

I imagine there's a thread at FR much like this one.

[gardenista]

111. I'm sure you're right. What a letdown to see DUers behaving like

Freeptards.

Inhumane is inhumane.

[Xithras]

118. There's nothing "liberal" about letting monsters go unpunished.

Rudolph chose this fate.

Remember WHY we lock him up that way. Rudolph is an intelligent, charismatic, good looking, and convincing zealot who has an amazing ability to convince people to his cause. He stayed free for five years and was hailed as a hero, with people actively helping to conceal his location and provide him with the resources he needed to evade the FBI. He actively evangelized his Christian terrorist beliefs, and did everything he could to convince people to follow him.

Do you REALLY want him among the regular prison population, where he can capitalize on his status as a celebrity criminal and a skinhead hero, to recruit even more members to his cause, teach them bombmaking techniques, and propagate his hateful message to the world through others?

He is in SuperMax because he is an ongoing threat to both society and to himself. If he were allowed unfettered contact with other people, he would either end up dead with a shank sticking out of his back, or he'd spend his time recruiting Eric wanna-be's to his cause. Neither is an acceptable solution.

I would support moving Rudolph out of SuperMax when he has demonstrated genuine remorse for his actions, and when he abandons the beliefs that led him to carry out the bombings...and I'd wait a year or two to ensure that he wasn't just lying to get out of there. When he was released into the general population, I'd watch him like a hawk...if he so much as TALKED to the skinheads, I'd send him back to his lonely cage.

[iverglas]

124. what disingenuous bullshit

There's nothing "liberal" about letting monsters go unpunished.

Did someone suggest that Rudolph, or anyone else, should go unpunished?

No? Then what's your point? You've heard of the fallacy of the straw man?

Do you REALLY want him among the regular prison population ...?

And again: did the person you are addressing say or imply, or say anything from which you could infer, that s/he wanted Rudolph in the regular prison population?

If not, they why would you ask whether s/he REALLY wants that?

He is in SuperMax because he is an ongoing threat to both society and to himself.

No, he is in supermax because he has been put there.

What he is or did or might do is simply not the "because" of all of the conditions in which he is being held. The fact that someone is a threat to society and/or him/herself does not require that s/he be imprisoned in a box without any human contact or mental stimulation.

If he were allowed unfettered contact with other people, ...

Did someone suggest that he be allowed unfettered contact with other people?

No? No.

Do you REALLY want us to think that you don't know that there is a universe of possibilities between the conditions under which he is being held and unfettered contact with other people? (What prisoner does have unfettered contact with other people, just for starters?)

No one here has suggested that Rudolph be permitted to design his own prison environment.

[Xithras]

129. Punishment doesn't have to be pleasant.

Rudolph attacked and killed people because they didn't agree with his ideology. That's an extremely hard position to sympathize with. He ranks right up there with the SS officers in the concentration camps when it comes to his inhumanity...what kind of sick human being kills innocent people simply because they disagree with their religious or political philosophy? Eric Rudolph did just that.

As to your other two points, you must be reading a different discussion than I am. People in this thread have attacked the SuperMax concept and have stated that he should be treated like any other prisoner. By definition, that means including him in the regular prison population. If he is placed into a regular prison, where WOULD have unfettered access to other people (unless you don't consider prisoners people), he would either be killed or would spread his beliefs to other prisoners. It is imperative that he be isolated from the rest of the prison population. SuperMax does that.

[iverglas]

130. ah, more disingenuous bullshit

Punishment doesn't have to be pleasant.

Your use of this tactic grows nauseating.

No one, least of all me, suggested that punishment had to be pleasant. Do you really think you accomplish something by misrepresenting your interlocutors and their words?

Rudolph attacked and killed people because they didn't agree with his ideology. That's an extremely hard position to sympathize with.

I find it extremely hard to "sympathize with" people who blow their horns on my block at 7 a.m. Somehow, I manage not to think it appropriate to flog them.

I should just ask again, though: whom are you addressing? Somebody here sympathizing with Rudolph, or his "position"? Nobody I've seen. Maybe you have special spectacles.

People in this thread have attacked the SuperMax concept and have stated that he should be treated like any other prisoner.

I don't think I've actually seen anyone say quite that, but then I probably haven't read every single post in the thread.

But here you are, responding to posts written by people who did NOT say that. Why don't you go talk to someone who did?

It is imperative that he be isolated from the rest of the prison population.

Few would disagree. I would not disagree. Look over here. You're talking to me.

SuperMax does that.

And Drano cleans your teeth. So why don't you put it on your toothbrush?

If you apply your "logic", I'm sure you do.

[Dinger]

135. I Agree. My Sentiments Exactly, EXACTLY (nt)

[Robb]

116. Really interesting point!

I'm not sure where I am on this, what's making me not be concerned there's a slippery slope, or a general erosion of human rights.

I suppose it's the notion that there's some kind of implicit social contract, something we all agree to in order to be considered part of the species, so to speak. And that there are lines you can cross to get kicked out of the club.

I wonder. I mean, is there behavior that says, "I'm giving up my right to be counted among humanity"?

I think that's what we're seeing here on the board. Folks who are saying, "Yeah, I'm all for those rights, but this guy crossed the line and doesn't deserve them anymore."

Just typing out loud, FWIW. :shrug:

[iverglas]

117. short answer: no

And that there are lines you can cross to get kicked out of the club.
I wonder. I mean, is there behavior that says, "I'm giving up my right to be counted among humanity"?

That's what "inalienable" *means*. You can't have it taken away, you can't sell it, you can't barter it, and you can't renounce it.

That's the whole point of the very concept. There is no arbitrary line that anyone can cross or be pushed over, to get thrown out of the club. It's the biggest club there is, the only one that *all* of us belong to, by virtue of birth alone, and can never resign from except by suicide, and can never cease to belong to except by death: humanity.

That's not to say that I wouldn't shoot Hitler. I'd just expect to be charged with murder also. I might expect some leniency, but I would not expect -- or want -- the other members of the club to pat me on the back and give me a prize. (Yeah, we do believe there are some circumstances in which killing another human being is justified -- collective and individual self-defence -- and maybe I could argue that ...)


I think that's what we're seeing here on the board. Folks who are saying, "Yeah, I'm all for those rights, but this guy crossed the line and doesn't deserve them anymore."

And I'm wondering who died and made them us. These are rules and concepts that we, the human race, have adopted, and nobody's personal opinions/beliefs have anything to do with them.

It is unacceptable to blow up abortion clinics, and it is unacceptable to imprison people under inhumane conditions. They're part and parcel of the same thing, and nobody's entitlement to the protection of the rules made to give effect to those common beliefs depends on anyone else's opinion of him/her.

It is indeed a slippery slope -- or perhaps more accurately a case of cutting off the legs one needs to stand on. It's less that one thing might lead to another, and more that once we admit of one exception, we have nothing left to defend against any other exception. I say, knowing the paradox of also saying that collective and individual self-defence is an accepted exception -- but fairly easily distinguished from any others, not being based on any assertion that someone is not entitled to the protections that flow from "human being" status. (We do require that individuals and groups that kill or harm in self-defence present justification, in a court or to the international community, for their actions.)

Some people think that abortion clinic bombers shouldn't be punished at all -- i.e. that abortion clinic workers and patients are not entitled to the protection given by the rules based on their humanity.

Some people think that people who kill their female relatives shouldn't be punished. Some people think that it is okay to sexually exploit children. And some people think that people who commit heinous crimes should not be protected against the horrible effects of sensory deprivation and isolation for life.

I don't want anybody making those kinds of decisions about me. But I also don't want them making those kinds of decisions about anybody else -- not because that would make me fear for my own liberty and security, but just because it is, by our common belief as expressed in all important modern instruments that express the rules we choose to live by, wrong.

It is perhaps "natural" for individuals to have these kinds of feelings about some other individuals. But we make these decisions, and take these actions, collectively, based on our collective values, not our individual feelings. Victims of crime don't sentence the criminals; we do. Individuals don't punish wrongdoers; we do.

Nobody is asking that anyone feel sympathy or pity for Eric Rudolph, and all of the people voicing their lack of sympathy or pity for him in this thread are barking up the wrong tree. Rights are not dependent on anyone's feelings about anyone else, and no one's feelings about anyone else are any justification for rights violations.

[screenplaya]

122. Eric is treated better than homeless people.

[iverglas]

123. well, that's an interesting point

And it's why I'm not a "liberal", basically.

Nonetheless, are you actually saying that you are unable to see the difference between what is NOT DONE FOR homeless people, and what is DONE TO a prisoner in this situation?

Squint. I'll bet you'll see it.

[Psephos]

137. Only if you consider bed and breakfast more important than freedom

I don't, and I have plenty of company.

Peace.

[Spirochete]

112. Poor guy. Guess we should send him to Tahiti

or someplace, where he could just sit on the beach and drink pina coladas. :eyes:

[pinniped]

113. Ok, where do I sign the petition for clemency????

?

[Raine]

114. Aw gee poor guy

NOT! :nopity: :rofl:

[Endangered Specie]

119. Id like to see that prick swallow a couple of these...

Perhaps that would make his life more 'fulfilling'

[Gman]

127. LOL! Spoken like a true meat 'n potatoes liberal

gun totin', meat eatin' liberal!

[screenplaya]

121. What are the odds George will pardon Eric? :)

[AndreaCG]

125. If you can't do the time...

[warrens]

126. He's got a point

Now,if this was CHENEY AND BUSH, I would have no sympathy.

[msanthrope]

128. Get thee to Gitmo......n/t

[Stuckinthebush]

131. I heard and felt the shocks

I was just a few blocks away that day. He intended to murder and he was intending to murder again, and again.

The death penalty would have been the easy way out for the likes of Rudolph. He will endure a lifetime of doing nothing much more than thinking about his victims and his actions. His actions shook my hometown for a long time...and still does. While I don't condone inhumane treatment of prisoners, I have a very hard time getting worked up over his plight.

[madmusic]

132. Agent Mike will be contacing some of you soon....

Halliburton will soon be hiring for their new concentration camps and sadistic guards are hard to find.

[Dinger]

136. Thank You

What the hell is going on here????

[citizen snips]

133. cry me a river

that is what you get for setting off bombs.

[Roland99]

134. Poor RIGHT-WING TERRORIST. Why not toss his TERRORIST ass into Gitmo?