Iran students heckle Ahmadinejad

[sabra]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/12/11/061211130257.ypfkzp5b.html

Iran students heckle Ahmadinejad

Iranian students have disrupted a speech by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad at a prestigious Tehran university, setting fire to his picture and heckling him.

"Some students chanted radical slogans and inflamed the atmosphere of the meeting" at the Amir Kabir University, said the semi-official Fars news agency on Monday, which is close to Ahmadinejad.

"A small number of students shouted 'death to the dictator' and smashed cameras of state television but they were confronted by a bigger group of students in the hall chanting: 'We support Ahmadinejad'," it said.

It was the latest in a series of student demonstrations in recent days, the first time in least two years that such protests have taken place on this scale at Iranian universities.

[xultar]

1. NIZE!!! I hope they don't get executed.

[annabanana]

2. So, civil war in Iran too?

"confronted by a bigger group of students in the hall chanting: 'We support Ahmadinejad',"

I would wonder about who these student groups were. Not enough info in this article to decide if these demonstrations are a good thing or a bad thing.

[geek tragedy]

3. How can demonstrations against a bigoted lunatic

be a bad thing?

[slackmaster]

11. Don't be culturally insensitive, geek tragedy

Terms like "bigoted" and "lunatic" are all relative, you know.

[geek tragedy]

18. Offhismeds meets my personal definitions, so

I really don't care if anyone who thinks like him is offended.

[Posteritatis]

36. I'll gleefully be "culturally insensitive" towards bigots, myself. (n/t)

[eagler]

35. Just because you oppose a would be dictator here

doesn't mean you have to support another dictator who opposes him

[MGD]

72. Dissent is Ahmadinejihad's enemy and an enemy of my enemy is my friend sooo

I think it's a good thing. Of course, that logic only works if one thinks Mahomoud Ahmadinejihad is an enemy.

[billyoc]

4. I believe Iran has a very young population.

I have a hard time believing that Ahmadinejad has a lot of popular support for his anti-semetic ravings.

[Chulanowa]

34. You think all he does is talk bad about Jews?

Certainly that's all that gets reported here in the states...

[global1]

5. How Much Is The U.S. CIA Paying These Demonstrating Students....

to cause unrest in Iran?

[skooooo]

6. What makes you think it's not sincere?

odd comment.

[Freddie Stubbs]

9. Some DUers cannot fathom the idea that a foreign leader who

is hostile to Bush could not have 100% support.

[geek tragedy]

10. Those must be the same people who insist

that every single one of Offhismeds' statements have been mistranslated.

[0007]

29. cough cough!

[geek tragedy]

7. How much is the Iranian government

paying people to insult brave dissenters?

Believe it or not, not every Iranian loves that Nazi piece of shit they have for a president.

[Ezlivin]

8. As much as they paid the "protesters" in Venezuela?

Does anyone remember the "hundreds of thousands" of protesters, many of them oil-workers, who protested against Hugo Chavez in 2002?

As the NY Times reported, "Mr. Chavez is using nonstriking workers to try to normalize operations at the state-owned oil company. His opponents, led by a coalition of business and labor leaders, contend, though, that their strike will push the company, and thus the Chavez government, to collapse." (Ginger Thompson, "Venezuela Strikers Keep Pressure on Chavez and Oil Exports", New York Times, Dec. 30, 2002)

This was how the CIA brought down Mossadegh in Iran and put the shah into power.

[rinsd]

13. I love it when DUers are so wrapped up in their Amerika is evil schtick

That they put down students decrying their government to side with a Holocaust denying nut bag.

[Ezlivin]

26. I love it when people make wrong-headed assumptions about other DUers

Fact: The CIA has organized protests in other countries in an attempt to change leadership.

No where in my post did I "side" with a "Holocaust denying nut bag."

If you dispute the fact that the CIA and other US Government agencies attempt to disrupt other countries through various means, including the inciting of riots and violence, please provide your evidence.

[rinsd]

28. A curious train of logic

"Fact: The CIA has organized protests in other countries in an attempt to change leadership."

"No where in my post did I "side" with a "Holocaust denying nut bag."

No you just attempted to delgitamize students protesting said holocaust denying nutbag. I figured with your logic train that would make sense that you have sided with him.

"If you dispute the fact that the CIA and other US Government agencies attempt to disrupt other countries through various means, including the inciting of riots and violence, please provide your evidence."

I do not dispute that. I dispute the assumption that anyone protesting a government the US is at odds with is somehow on the US payroll.

[PaulaFarrell]

46. It's a standard CIA tactic

so it's wise to be skeptical and avoid taking these things at face value. That is how the CIA has managed to carry out its stock-in-trade over the past 60 years. Myself, I can't support a group of people yelling 'death to the dictator ' no matter how much they might hate him.

[geek tragedy]

49. Do you think that it's reasonable to suspect that anti-Bush protestors are

agents of a foreign government?

[musette_sf]

80. looks like you couldn't get your first mark

to fall for the Bill Orally line of "questioning" either.

[treestar]

67. True enough. It is not as if it is not a possibility

To anyone who knows even a little about the history of the CIA.

[Posteritatis]

37. Therefore all such protests are CIA-organized? Whaaaaatever. (n/t)

[Ezlivin]

38. Did I say all?

Careful with those assumptions.

[treestar]

66. How did you reach these nutty conclusions?

Leaps and bounds of logic here are amazing.

[democratic]

14. global

What makes you so prejudicial and racist to think that Iranians want to live under a barbaric dictatorship. Do you have that much hatred towards other people besides your self that you think the only people smart enough to demonstrate are people like you? How do I know that the CIA does not fund people like you to make Iranians look bad so we can bomb Iran? That seems like the more likely scenario.

These demonstrations have been going on since the 1990's

[PaulaFarrell]

45. My thoughts exactly n/t

[Megahurtz]

52. Could easily be true. n/t

[Eugene]

12. Some brave kids.

Ahmadinejad is a religious nut, a bigoted madman, and a demagogue,
in many respects, an Islamic version of George W. Bush. Even Iranian
conservatives are starting to see through him.

I hope these students are not punished.

[kineneb]

15. remember, the Iranian "President" is a figurehead

although elected, he can be overruled by the Supreme Leader who actually formulates policy. So whatever he says must be taken with a large grain of salt.

Here is the outline of their governmental structure:
http://www.iranchamber.com/government/articles/structure_of_power.php

"PRESIDENT:
The president is the second highest ranking official in Iran. While the president has a high public profile, however, his power is in many ways trimmed back by the constitution, which subordinates the entire executive branch to the Supreme Leader. In fact, Iran is the only state in which the executive branch does not control the armed forces.

The president is responsible for setting the country's economic policies. Though he has nominal rule over the Supreme National Security Council and the Ministry of Intelligence and Security, in practice the Supreme Leader dictates all matters of foreign and domestic security. Eight vice presidents serve under the president, as well as a cabinet of 22 ministers. The Council of Ministers must be confirmed by Parliament."

(boldface added by me)

[democratic]

16. President

of Iran has virtually zero power all power is vested in the unelected Ayatollah Khamenei. Plus, in order to run for president you have to be vetted by the extremely hardline guardian council that qualified all women and reformists during the last presidential race.

It is like me letting you choose between four members of the Christian Coalition and then when you choose giving him minimal power.

[kineneb]

17. I know

I keep track of goings on in Iran because some of my family still lives there. Most people, however, are not aware that when the Iranian President speaks, he is mostly just gassing off. The US public is not aware that real policy is expressed through Ayatollah Khamenei. He may be a radical, but he is not a frothing hothead like Pres. A.

[cali]

56. Not quite.

Ahmadinejad broadcasts the message of the Supreme Leader and the Guardian Council, though there has been some speculation that he actually has garnered some real power. But as you point out, the greater power is with others. Don't you think if they didn't like what he was doing or saying, they'd shut him up?

[AngryAmish]

40. But this is a funny thing

He might have gotten off thier leash.

I do not know if this is a done deal yet they may be cutting his term by a year. Amandiijhad has a lot of popular support esp. on the nuke area).

So this may be the ayatollah's way of putting him in his place.

Or not.

My reading of Iranian politics could be way off.

[Norquist Nemesis]

19. It wouldn't surprise me at all if US operatives' groundwork

is coming to fruition.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060417fa_fact

"“This is much more than a nuclear issue,” one high-ranking diplomat told me in Vienna. “That’s just a rallying point, and there is still time to fix it. But the Administration believes it cannot be fixed unless they control the hearts and minds of Iran. The real issue is who is going to control the Middle East and its oil in the next ten years.” "

That article is primarily about military, but the above "hearts and minds" gets to the meat of it. Bushetals know it would be impossible to launch a military campaign at this moment in time (and hopefully, at least for the rest of his term in office given that Democrats are the majority in both houses).

More on covert groups:
http://www.cfr.org/publication/12118/irans_ethnic_groups.html?breadcrumb=%2Fregion%2F

What role does the United States play with these groups?
There are mixed accounts about U.S. affiliations with such groups. Seymour M. Hersh reports in the New Yorker the Pentagon has established “covert relationships” with many of Iran’s minority groups and “has encouraged their efforts to undermine the regime’s authority in northern and southeastern Iran.” Although many of these minority groups have satellite offices in the United States (as well as in Europe), some experts remain doubtful. Although the Pentagon and Kurds in the region have longstanding ties, Afrasiabi doubts the United States will assist the Kurdish desire for greater autonomy. “The Iranians believe the United States is not foolish enough to push this arc of Kurdish separatism in Iran too far because of the compounding effect this would have on regional security issues,” he says. But whenever demonstrations break out among Iran’s minorities, Tehran blames foreign agitators, says RFE/RL’s Samii. “In the May 19 Friday Prayers sermon in Tehran, which was broadcast across the country by state radio, Ayatollah Mohammad Emami-Kashani pinned southeastern violence on the United States and Israel.”

http://www.newyorker.com/printables/fact/061127fa_fact (a must read)

[democratic]

20. Norquit

How do we know that all this propaganda about Iranian students being agents is not a ploy by you and others to make all Iranians look evil so you can attack Iran?

Seems like the agenda is pretty clear - make all Iranians look evil who support Ahamdinejad that way we can attack the country, right?

Not too hard to figure out what many are trying to do by making many Iranians look like supporters of the regime.

Nice try though I see through the propaganda.

[Norquist Nemesis]

21. At least your edited post made a little more sense

First, how do "we" know that your claim of what I posted is propaganda?

Second, do not ascribe intentions to me for which you have no basis. How in the hell did you ever leap to a conclusion that I want to "make all Iranians look evil..." and that I want to "attack Iran"? It's absurd.

Third, it would not be the first time US operatives have been instrumental in successfully organizing groups to cause political rifts.

[geek tragedy]

23. Would it surprise you if it was just Iranian

students who don't like the bigoted piece of shit running their country?

Or are only white Christians capable of meaningful dissent from awful leaders?

[Norquist Nemesis]

24. No, it wouldn't surprise me

to learn that.

Geez, get a grip and lay off the personal attacks.

[geek tragedy]

25. Not a personal attack, I'm just curious

as to why people immediately suggest that any form of dissent against a shitty anti-Bush politician is some kind of CIA-conspiracy.

Occam's Razor and all that.

I mean, if someone suggested that Cindy Sheehan was a plant by anti-American forces, you'd think they were nuts.

[treestar]

68. It is just raising the possibility. Sheesh. One does not exclude the other

We have no way of knowing for sure what is going on.

But we have been played by the MSM and * so it's only smart not to rush to believe everything we hear in the media at face value.

[musette_sf]

33. thank you NN

for some fact-based analysis. would that your decriers here were as well informed as you are. :applause:

[geek tragedy]

39. No, pushing pro-Ahmadinejad propaganda

is not the same thing as being fact-based.

So-called progressives who smear people who stand up to rightwing oppressors in their own countries make me sick.

[musette_sf]

48. how you can derive that NN, or I,

are "pro-Ahmadinejad", escapes me. but it's not our job to decide who runs Iran. i don't like Ahmadinejad, but he's the elected leader of his sovereign nation. i'm a lot more worried about Death Squad Negroponte, than i am about Ahmadinejad.

i smell psy-ops on this whole thing. if i turn out to be wrong, well, hooray for the brave students. but this is looking too much like "1979 In Reverse".

if we've done all this work to get the Culture of Death out of our House and Senate, and allowed ourselves to feel hope that we might get our kids out of the illegal "war" in Iraq... and the net result ends up being a new illegal "war" in Iran... we'll know we've been had once again by the Bu$h Crime Family and its worldwide affiliates.

message being, don't trust that what you're seeing is some real "uprising". my gut tells me it's a prelude to another invasion of another sovereign nation, in a strategic area for which a CIA-based cabal called PNAC has already announced their intentions to put "our guys" in power. like i said, if i'm wrong, great, but...

[geek tragedy]

50. I, in turn, am suspicious of those who accuse dissidents

of being traitors in the service of an enemy state. It's textbook Stalinism.

[musette_sf]

54. oh please

now you're exhuming Old Joe to try to shame people into silence. that's pretty low.

i didn't say that the alleged dissidents were alleged traitors, you know that, and my posts prove that. but you and your other Happy Shiny Iran "Freedom" pals on DU seem to share a penchant for flat-out lying, as to what those who disagree with you have to say on this topic.

[geek tragedy]

57. You obliquely accused them of being part of a US

psy-ops operation.

[musette_sf]

58. they very well may be

and if they are, they may or may not be aware of that.

you don't know and neither do i.

try looking at the big picture. unless you have some Happy Shiny Iran "Freedom" agenda to push, that is, in which case you'll continue to grasp at straws.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[musette_sf]

62. so you also don't think i am entitled to my opinion?

in my opinion, the chances are slim that this is a real "freedom" movement in Iran. history and PNAC's plans for the region would indicate the same.

and who are you, the snarky comment and "subtle racism" police? what a nerve.

[Lurking Dem]

65. Sure you're entitled

to spew any idiotic thing you want to but expect to get called on it.

[musette_sf]

75. same here

and it might benefit your case in future to lay off of the specious accusations.

[geek tragedy]

60. The big picture is that Iran has an unpopular regime that

is out of touch with its young population.

The big picture is that there is ZERO evidence, NONE, ZILCH, that these students are anything other than disaffected young Iranians.

Do you suspect anti-Bush protestors of being agents of foreign governments?

[musette_sf]

63. there is also ZERO etc etc etc evidence

of the contrary.

and nice try, attempting to portray me as some kind of mutant Freeper, instead of a dedicated progressive who is highly suspicious of CIA involvement in ME events that could leave us with yet ANOTHER illegal war for, ahem, "freedom".

like i've said before, and which you refuse to acknowledge, i could be wrong. i'd like to be wrong. but my gut feeling is that i may be sadly right.

it must be nice, to be as naive and trusting as you are....

[geek tragedy]

64. Do you suspect anti-Bush protestors of being

agents of a foreign government?

Yes or no.

[musette_sf]

74. the Bill Orally style of asserting

"yes or no" questions that are completely unrelated to the discussion at hand, and which are intended as an attempt to coerce one's opponent into making an assertion to support your own agenda, is unacceptable to me.

bye, Billo-wannabe. better luck next time.

[geek tragedy]

76. Nice dodge. Toodles. eom

[musette_sf]

79. enjoy your felafel n/t

[Megahurtz]

53. Exactly!

And you know who has the best CIA connections....

[Penance]

41. It certainly doesn't have to be the CIA

Just because the government is full of fundimentalist crazies doesn't mean that the population is, particularlly when talking about universities. Look at institutions of higher learning in the United States. Outside of the business schools, they tend to be pretty progressive places. Religious fundimentalists and people who are being taught to think critically don't get along very well in general.

[Lilith Velkor]

22. Great, now let's go bomb them and get them killed for their own good

:sarcasm:

[cali]

27. Quite a leap there.

No one on this thread has advocated bombing Iran.

[Lilith Velkor]

30. My sarcasm is not directed at anyone in this thread

If it stings, one would do well to ask oneself why one takes it personally.

[cali]

55. Hmm.

Another interesting leap by you. Nothing in my post indicated that I took your remark personally. I find it curious that you'd jump to that conclusion, but then you seem rather adept at doing just that.

[killbotfactory]

43. Yes, let's spread our freedom to Iran.

It worked so well in Iraq.

I'm sure Bush is just chomping at the bit to give them a little freedom.

[democratic]

31. Pictures from the Students

Pro-Democracy Students burn Ahmadinejads picture

Pro-Democracy Iranian students holding Ahadminejads picture upside down


Chanting 'Death to Dictator'

http://isna.ir/Main/PicView.aspx?Pic=Pic-841745-5&Lang=P

[Odin2005]

32. Good for the students.

The Ahmadinejad apologists need to STFU and get a damn clue. The enemy of our enemy is NOT our friend. Iranians have every right to overthow the Fundy scumbags ruling thier country.

[Chulanowa]

42. I agree they do.

In fact they are just as free to install an even worse guy in his place. Whoever they want.

Tell me exactly what would happen to you or I if we went to a Bush speech and chanted "Death to Bush! Death to Bush!", though? Would you believe this to be an effective and sensible method of protest agaisnt disagreeable and illegal policy?

[Cocoa]

44. we're in the same boat as those students

our relationship to our leadership is the same as theirs towards theirs. The leadership in both our countries adopts a confrontational stance that benefits themselves and puts us at risk. Each demonizes the other side for their own benefit. Each cynically exploits religion.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

47. Good for them. n/t

[Amused Musings]

51. I look forward to the day Iran's answer to

Vaclav Havel emerges.

[HuffleClaw]

61. hilarious how much coverage this gets compared to say, protests against BUSH

'left-wing media' my ass.

[oblivious]

69. The OP's from a right-wing website. The forums link to FREE REPUBLIC.

http://www1.breitbart.com/b?feed=BNForumsAll

Just so you know where the propaganda's coming from.

[musette_sf]

77. thanks for the public service announcement!

we Truthseekers appreciate it! :hi:

[fujiyama]

70. Why is it

that every time, a fanatic like Ahmed-jad is criticized by his own people, they are tools of the Bush administration? Hell, if one of us dares say anything about certain Islamist states, we are neocons and want to invade Iran.

Propaganda is one thing, but why are we to believe that a religious fanatic like him is popular among younger folks in that country?

Ahmed-jad is a fuckin nutcase. If you've bought his act, you are a fucking fool - about as smart as the 30% in this country that buys Bush's bullshit.

[Megahurtz]

71. Not EVERY time,

but given the history of the BFEE I just think it could easily be a 50/50 chance, that's all.

[musette_sf]

78. you are correct, ma'am

and :toast:

[skipos]

73. Good.

Surely DUers know some young Iranians. Ahmadinejad is not popular with them (at least the few I know).