Execution of Fla. Inmate Takes 34 Min....

[Bigmack]

Execution of Fla. Inmate Takes 34 Min.

By RON WORD (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
December 13, 2006 9:59 PM EST
STARKE, Fla. - A man convicted of murdering the manager of a topless bar nearly three decades ago was executed by injection Wednesday, appearing to grimace before dying 34 minutes after receiving the first of two doses of chemicals.

The manner of his death will likely rekindle the argument that Florida's method of execution constitutes cruel and unusual punishment.

Angel Nieves Diaz, 55, was pronounced dead at 6:36 p.m., despite his protests of innocence and requests for clemency made by the governor of his native Puerto Rico. He appeared to move for 24 minutes after the first injection. His eyes were open, his mouth opened and closed and his chest rose and fell. He was pronounced dead 10 minutes after his last movement.

http://my.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20061213/457f88d0_3ca6_15526200612131098770347

[Kerrytravelers]

1. I can't bear to read anymore.

I have some big problems with the death penalty. I know many here may disagree, but me, Mr. kt and my parents feel so strongly against it, we have made it known that none of us ever want the death penalty used in our name if the occasion should ever arise.

[ThomCat]

2. I agree. There is no humane reason

for the death penalty. We as a society become as bad as the murderers by doing this to people.

And as The Innocence Project has proven, many of these people really are innocent. We're murdering innocent people, and doing it in a way that may be cruel and excruciating. x(

[Kerrytravelers]

3. That is how my family has always felt.

You and I agree on so much. I"m glad I've met you here on DU.

[ThomCat]

7. Me too.

:hug:

[saigon68]

35. Jeb Bush was so excited he went in men's room and Masturbated

He needed arousal and release

[ThomCat]

41. Um, that's an image I really didn't need in my head.

x(

[Warpy]

5. Thank you. I don't care how peaceful it LOOKS

and how little horror the witnesses are put through. There is nothing peaceful or humane about the DP, no matter how it's administered.

I am totally against the death penalty. I say this as a survivor of the murder of a family member. Having the perp killed in my name would have made it all worse.

[MGD]

10. I'm ambivalent about the death penalty myself. In the end, I have to be for it

It just seems to me that there are times when it is more than justified. andalso think that it is the only thing preventing the civilized world from descending into the kind of madness we are seeing in Iraq. For those who have no fear of divine retribution, fear of punishment is the only thing that stands between them and their psychotic fantasies. When the punishment is taken away, the id comes out to play.

[jamesinca]

40. You cant legislate morality

It has always been against the law to kill and yet it goes on. The death penalty has not made murder go away. The state of Texas after GW was governor should have the lowest rate of murder in the US, but it does not. In the case mentioned in the article, 30 years later is nothing but vengeance. It has nothing to do with crime and punishment, it is vengeance. Crime and punishment could have been served by never letting him out of jail.

"the only thing preventing the civilized world from descending into the kind of madness we are seeing in Iraq." That has nothing to do with a death penalty being in place there.

[Lasher]

47. "30 years later" is one thing seriously wrong with our criminal justice system

Nothing should drag on like that. A better example is Ken Lay's case. That dragged on and on literally for the rest of his life, and as a result he served no time for his crimes and his heirs will live large forever on the money he stole. A delay of justice is injustice its self.

Another thing that's wrong is, you can literally get away with murder if you have lots of money. As such, it's hard for me to have a lot of respect for the system.

[MGD]

75. "It has always been against the law to kill and yet it goes on....

The death penalty has not made murder go away."

I said the DP was a deterrent to murder, I didn't say that it would put an end to murder, nothing will ever do that in this world and, furthermore, the fact that murder still exists despite the existence of the death penalty does not support the premise that the death penalty has failed to reduce the incidence of murder as it is just as likely and equally unverifiable that the opposite is true.

"The state of Texas after GW was governor should have the lowest rate of murder in the US, but it does not."
Again, this premise is unsupported as there is no way to know what the incidence of murder in Texas over the given time line would be if there was no death penalty in Texas. As I have said, it is quite possible (and in my opinion, likely) that the incidence of murder would be even higher than it is if the death penalty detereent were removed entirely. It is a clever argument that you make here but it does not stand up to close scrutiny.

"It has nothing to do with crime and punishment, it is vengeance."
I prefer to call it justice but, in the end, criminal justice is a sort of vengeance no matter what form it takes so I can not disagree with you on this other than to say that it is really no more than a matter of semantics.

"That has nothing to do with a death penalty being in place there."
I don't understand your argument here.

[jamesinca]

87. Actually there is evidence to support my argument

Look at the rates of homicide in the rest of the industrialized world and look at the crime and punishment that they have in place. Murder rates are lower, and yet the death penalty is not used. The rate of homicide in TX has not changed before or after GW was governor, yet he had more people put to death than any other governor. The DP is still used there. The rest of the industrialized world has a lower rate of homicide than the U.S. and TX. The rest of the industrialized world has done away with the DP. New Zealand has used a restitution program for victims. As a result of the victims and offenders sitting down and having some restitution, 75% of their juvenile facilities have been closed. When people are not put into the criminal system early they tend to not be there later in life. They tend to not be repeat offenders. America does not offer that system, put them in jail and label them an ex-con when released and have no rehabilitation. Japan, since at least the end of WWII, has used a similar system as New Zealand. Their crime rate has dropped since it was implemented.

Vengeance and punishment are not a matter of semantics.

Iraq is not in chaos and a civil war because of a lack of a DP. It is in chaos and a civil war as a result of U.S. foreign policy.

[Bridget Burke]

49. Iraq has Capital Punishment.

...the death penalty is back in vogue in Iraq. After the U.S. invasion, capital punishment was suspended by L. Paul Bremer, head of the now-defunct Coalition Provisional Authority, but interim Prime Minster Iyad Allawi reinstated it a year later. Since September 2005, when three men were hanged in the southwestern city of Kut after being convicted of running a murder-and-kidnapping ring, the Iraqi government has executed 50 prisoners convicted of murder or kidnapping, says spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh. An adviser to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki says the government plans to execute "two or three more batches of 14 or 15 each" in the coming months.

www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1558285,00.html

This story from last month goes on to say that the real numbers executed may be far more than we've been told. And there have been "glitches & snafus" causing some a longer time to die.

Yet, the "madness" in Iraq continues. And Iraqi extremist groups have posted "Execution Lists" online. Guess that word makes everything OK.

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15176583/site/newsweek/

[MGD]

77. There is no law in order in Iraq. Order has completely broken down.

There is only the madness of completely uninhibited lawlessness. The situation is made worse by a "religion" that glorifies killing and suicide. It would be bad enough if their were simply no fear of divine retribution but there is actually the promise of divine favor for those who kill in their God's name. This, coupled with the deterioration of law, order, and accountability for one's actions have combined to completely eliminate all inhibition and prohibition against the act of killing. It is, in a word, madness.

[Bridget Burke]

89. But you claim the Death Penalty keeps us from being like Iraq!

And what the fuck is "order"? I'm assuming that you meant "law in order" to mean "law & order." I know what law is. But those loving "order"--beyond the law--make me nervous.

Christianity is not all that peaceful. Check out the Old Testament.

[CJCRANE]

104. Yes, but law and order broke down

because the neocons disbanded the entire Iraqi police force, army and civil service.

What do you think is going to happen with half a million or more disgruntled, unemployed and heavily armed men roaming around?

Would law and order survive in America if a foreign power had done the same thing?

[Kelvin Mace]

50. I respectfully disagree

The death penalty is applied unevenly and subject to politics (prosecutors run for office on how many people they fry).

In this particular case, the man was convicted by people who cut deals to avoid his fate. It is entirely possible that he didn't commit the murder, the people who cut deals did. It also entirely possible NONE of the people involved did the deed, but confessed in order to avoid being executed.

I ask you the same question I ask all death penalty supporters:

How many innocent people are you prepared to execute in pursuit of vengeance?

Make no mistake, this is vengeance, not punishment.

[MGD]

78. And I respect your opinion...however

"he death penalty is applied unevenly and subject to politics (prosecutors run for office on how many people they fry)."

By that can I assume you mean more black people are put to death than white people?

"In this particular case, the man was convicted by people who cut deals to avoid his fate. It is entirely possible that he didn't commit the murder, the people who cut deals did."

He was tried and convicted before a jury of his peers and found guilty and, consequently,sentenced to death. I do understand your point; however, in the age of DNA testing and forensic science, there are clearly many mnay times when the question of guilt or innosence stops being a question.

"Make no mistake, this is vengeance, not punishment"
Vengeance is just another word for justice which is just another word for punishment. It's all the same. As I have already argued to another poster, this is a matter of semantics only.

[daleo]

59. Canada doesn't have the death penalty

And the murder rate is about one-sixth that of the United States.

[MGD]

80. Canada isn't the United states either. Not all solutions are universally applicable.

[daleo]

100. No, but it weakens the point about the death penalty being a deterrent

The two countries are close in culture, language and history. I know there are arguments that the gun ownership tradition in the U.S. and the more violent history in general account for the differences, but the evidence tends to undermine the deterrence argument, in my opinion.

The murder rate has gone down in Canada since the repeal of the death penalty, from 3.09 per 100,000 in 1975 to 1.78 per 100,000 in 2001. If the death penalty was an effective deterrent it should have went the other way. This evidence doesn't help the case for deterrence, either.

[Bill McBlueState]

67. A lot of us here on DU have no fear of devine retribution

A lot of us have no fear of devine retribution, since there's no evidence for the existence of anything "devine." I challenge the assertion that fear of punishment is keeping all of us from carrying out psychotic fantasies.

[MGD]

81. Well, I would hope that most of us here at DU aren't psychopaths.

We are able to internally rationalize the need to obey the fundamental tenents of civilized society. Some people, for various reasons, lack the internal motivations to obey those tenents and require some form of coercive external motivation to come into compliance. For some, that coercive force is God, for others it is a simple fear of punishment. For many, it is a combination of both. When either of those coercive forces is attenuated, psychic inhibitions are similarly weakened which results in an increased incidence of acting upon subconscious and conscious psychotic fantasies.

[Bridget Burke]

90. Psychopaths don't fear anything.

And most non-psychotic criminals just don't think they'll get caught.

Things sure have calmed down in Iraq sinse they re-instituted the death penalty!

[Warpy]

73. The death penalty is not a deterrent

and that's been proven multiple times in multiple places.

Killers are generally drunk and/or drugged at the time of the murder. In any case, the LAST thing they are thinking of is the possibility that they're going to be caught down the road and spend years in a cell before getting their veins full of bad drugs. They just want the sucker DEAD.

Some things just don't work the way we'd like them to.

[MGD]

82. I would have to see specific references to this proof you speak of before I could comment further

on that.


"Killers are generally drunk and/or drugged at the time of the murder. In any case, the LAST thing they are thinking of is the possibility that they're going to be caught down the road and spend years in a cell before getting their veins full of bad drugs. They just want the sucker DEAD."

Well, that does seem a bit like a gross generalization; however, I would simply say that alcohol lowers one's inhibitions towards a great mnay things but that removing the death penalty would only remove more inhibition. Think of it like this, if you cured HIV, do you think more drunk girls would get pregnant or would fewer drunk girls become pregant as a result? I think the answer is obvious.

[GCP]

106. Funny how the states without the death penalty have a lower murder rate

than those like Texas that execute people by the hundreds.

For those who have no fear of divine retribution, fear of punishment is the only thing that stands between them and their psychotic fantasies. When the punishment is taken away, the id comes out to play.

Sorry, but the logic doesn't hold.

[LeighAnn]

18. That's a good idea, discussing it

I've thought about that off and on, wondering if my family would be bloodthristy if I ever got murdered, but I've never sat down and told anybody to make my views known to the court. Good thing to discuss with the family, but maybe not at the holiday gatherings. Would probably spark a heated political fight if the gathering were large enough.

[LostinVA]

37. I'm with you

I've told my family the very same thing.

A humane and civilized nation doesn't murder people. Life in prison with np chance of parole is much more civilized, as well as a just punishment.

[AliceWonderland]

97. You're not alone -- I oppose the death penalty

As a non-American, I don't understand the rush to prove how tough you are on criminal offenses. In Canada, the issue is so very different -- I lived my life assuming that the death penalty was barbaric as a form of institutional state punishment. I agree with Amnesty International on this one.

[Bigmack]

4. You can always count on the Freepers...

.. to show what the knuckle-draggers are thinking.

My wife said "Find out what those dumbshits at that rightwing site are saying about the same story."

Thanks, honey...now I need a shower and some soothing music to bring the old gag reflex under control.
- - - - - - -

"Well, just do an exploding helmet on them. Simultaneous detonation from all sides, like in a nuke, converging shock waves will destroy the brain and the pain centers in it in something like 10 microseconds. A bit loud and messy, true, but otherwise much faster than anything else."

"I still don't understand why the Guillotine was done away with."

"I'm sure the executioner was paid for a full hour, demand a refund of 26 minutes!"

"It should hurt like hell. When you kill someone why should you die a painless death? I think stoning would be fine, hanging good or just fry them. I don't care how they suffer because they had no mercy for their victims."

"Boo-Fing-Hoo, I hope it hurt."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753234/posts

[Prophet 451]

8. In fairness

I don't understand why the guillotine isn't used anymore either. OK, it's gruesome but it was specifically designed to be quick and painless. I'm actually a supporter of the death penalty in certain circumstances (i.e. proof of unequivocal guilt and reserved purely for the most heinous of crimes) but if the gruesomeness of the guillotine put people off, maybe they'd think twice about calling for the death penalty.

Yes, I support the death penalty but it should be a terrible necessity, not (as many RWers seem to think) a cause to celebrate.

[Webster Green]

12. Why is it a necessity?

It isn't a deterrent. What is the purpose, other than gruesome revenge?

[MGD]

15. It is a strong deterrent. nt

[J Miles]

29. No it's not

The US is the only nation in the industrialized world that still uses the death penalty.

We also have the highest homicide rate.

The State should NEVER decide who lives and who dies, regardless of the circumstances.

[Art_from_Ark]

84. Well, Japan still has the death penalty

but it's only used for the most heinous of cases, such as serial/mass murder, or an especially gruesome single murder. And it is applied rather sparingly, with only 2 or 3 executions this year and sometimes no executions in a year.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

36. Prove it. Numbers please. -nt

[intaglio]

70. Death Penalty

Countries with the death penalty
Afghanistan
Antigua and Barbuda
Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus
Belize
Botswana
Burundi
Cameroon
Chad
China (People's Republic)
Comoros
Congo (Democratic Republic)
Cuba
Dominica
Egypt
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Gabon
Ghana
Guatemala
Guinea
Guyana
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Korea, North
Korea, South
Kuwait Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Lebanon
Lesotho
Libya
Malawi
Malaysia
Mongolia
Nigeria
Oman
Pakistan
Palestinian Authority
Qatar
Rwanda
St. Kitts and Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Saudi Arabia
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Somalia
Sudan
Swaziland
Syria
Taiwan
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Thailand
Trinidad and Tobago
Uganda
United Arab Emirates
United States
Uzbekistan
Vietnam
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe

Murder rate in the US as of 2005 5.7 per 100,000
Murser rate Canada as of 2003 1.7

[MGD]

79. Prove that it isn't. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

88. In other words, you admit it's baseless speculation. -nt

[J Miles]

102. That's not how it works

YOU made the claim. The burden of proof is on YOU.

[Roland99]

39. AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

:rofl: :rofl:

[Puglover]

92. Yeah a real strong detterent

Check out the murder rate in Texas and compare it to Minnesota and try again pal.

[Kellanved]

93. No, it isn't a deterrent at all

For a very simple reason: murderers do not expect to get caught - regardless of the penalty.

[Prophet 451]

19. Some monsters should not walk on the earth

Some people are simply too dangerous to allow them to live. Even imprisoned, they may escape or somehow be able to arrange a release (I'm thinking especially of Richard "Nightstalker" Ramirez here). Even with a sentance of LWOP, there are ways for such offenders to be released and a few offenders are simply so dangerous that we, as a society, cannot allow even the possibility of their getting loose. The only way of making absolutely certain of that is execution. Let me stress I am speaking purely of the most heinous crimes. I'm not talking about simple murderers or rapists, I am talking about those rare few who are utterly without remorse, incapable of being rehabilitated and a danger to society at large for as long as they live. I'm talking about people like Dahmer or Shipman, not Napoleon Beazley.

On the deterrent thing: To be honest, I'm not sure if it acts as a deterrent. The data I've seen is inconclusive. However, even if I could be shown to have no deterrent effect, I would still be in support for teh reasons given above.

Finally, I have always and will always argue for the most humane method of execution (which, believe it or not, was my reason for suggesting the guillotine). To torture would be to indulge revenge but I don't believe the death penalty, correctly and sparingly applied is.

[mvd]

21. We'll always disagree on this one

Yes, there's a slight chance they will get out - but for moral reasons, I'm completely against the DP. To me, killing is not the answer to killing and makes the state look hypocritical. I also wouldn't want to be in the business of who would get it and who would not. The only way to be fair is to give it to all people convicted of a certain crime, or none. I choose none, because the system will always be too imperfect. Costs of appeals are also high - with no DP, we wouldn't have those costs.

The only time I'd support the DP is if we had a completely ineffective means of keeping dangerous murderers from society, and our system is well within my standards for an effective system.

[Prophet 451]

24. Fair enough

I can understand the position of those who have a moral objection to DP in principle, I simply disagree.

[mvd]

25. I respect your opinion

But stay open - I used to support the DP like you do, but I changed.

[Prophet 451]

26. Always

I like to think I'll always be open to at least listening to oppsoing views.

[AngryOldDem]

52. Read John Grisham's "An Innocent Man"

I can't say that it will change your mind, but I hope it will give you a lot to think about.

[Prophet 451]

58. Thanks for the rec

I generally enjoy Grisham's work but haven't read that one. Just ordered it from Amazon.

[krispos42]

31. Either way they leave the prison dead

It could be a couple of years after being sentenced to die, or it could be sixty years after life without parole. Regardless, they are taken out of the prison in a hearse.

Assuming the proper safeguards, of course, ESPECIALLY ALLOWING NEW DNA TESTS ON EVIDENCE (God, is that a no-brainer or what?!?) then I have no problem with it.

Why? So the murderer cannot be a source of facination and inspiration for psyco wanna-bes. So the murderer cannot taunt or torment the family of those he killed or the officers who investigated the crime. So the murderer cannot write a tell-all book, or be on a TV interview, or "find Jesus" and ask for clemency. Or escape.

Of course it must be painless or nearly so. The idea is to remove him from this earthly plane of existance, not cause sadistic pleasure. We'll leave that for Bill O'Reilly and the other pro-torture assholes.

According to Wikipedia, a 12,800 ppm concentration of carbon monoxide causes death in three minutes, with early symptoms being a headache and dizziness. Works for me. And better than this 34-minute crap in Florida.

My own personal preferred method is a rope of C-4 plastic explosive round my neck, followed by a closed-casket funeral, but I doubt the state will let me do that.

[mvd]

45. And I prefer he/she go naturally

I will not support death by state killing.

[Prophet 451]

60. Agreed

As I said, I'm talking about rare and terrible cases, not run of the mill criminals and I think I specified unequivocal proof of guilt (DNA testing and multiple witness statements AND forensic evidence should do it). Dahmer or Harold Shipman (British serial killer with a bodycount of over 200) would get the death penalty; "Tookie" Williams probably wouldn't; Napoleon Beazley definately wouldn't.

As far as method of execution goes, I favour firing squad. Instant, painless (or as close as possible), cheap and doesn't make any one person into an executioner (little-known fact about WWI firing squads: Only one rifle in a four-man squad carried a live round. The rifles were held especially for the purpose and assigned at random. The squad would be told this prior to an execution so, if it ever troubled them, they could reassure themselves that there was a good chance they hadn't fired the fatal shot).

[greccogirl]

86. Or Ted Bundy - who managed to escape and kill

how many?

[knitter4democracy]

42. Because they found that the head survived for awhile.

Some seemed to register pain and awareness for as long as six minutes afterward. Beheading was stopped after those results came out of the French Revolution for the most part.

[Bake]

48. Not to sound too morbid, but

I had wondered about that for quite a while, how long it took the head/brain to actually die after the blade fell.

Bake

[knitter4democracy]

53. I forget where I read that.

My mom and I knew a cop who came on a car accident where the driver was decapitated, and when he found the head, well, let's just say it gave him nightmares.

The reality is, there's a lot we still don't know about death. We do know that our justice system is flawed, though, so the right answer seems to be to get rid of the death penalty, since it is always cruel and sometimes entirely wrong.

[Bake]

54. Absolutely. And irreversible.

You can let someone out of prison if it turns out they were wrongly convicted. You can't reverse the death penalty.

Bake

[Prophet 451]

63. Really?!?!?!

Oh my Satan! I always thought that was an urban myth. OK, scrap guillotine, substitute firing squad as instant and painless (or as close as humanly possible).

[michreject]

95. Actually it wasn't stopped

It became a public display. After decapitation, the henchman would hold up the head for the cheering crowd in order for them to view facial expressions.

[hedgehog]

57. Were you aware that some witnessese have speculated

that the head remains alive and aware for a brief period after execution?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

61. The guillotine was NOT instantaneous

The brain stayed conscious until the brain blacked out from lack of oxygen.

France used the guillotine well into the twentieth century, and in 1905, a French physician reported that the head of an executed criminal stayed conscious for 30 seconds.

http://www.metaphor.dk/guillotine/Pages/30sec.html

[Prophet 451]

64. Conceded

I had always thought the idea of the head surviving for even a short time was an urban myth. It seems I was wrong.

[zreosumgame]

66. until I read that really really gross story so did I

[zreosumgame]

62. because it takes time for even a severed head to die

Was it Dr Guillotine himself who when sentenced to die asked that the number of times he blinked before death be counted? I do not remember all the details, but to call it painless is not accurate.

[Prophet 451]

65. Conceded. See above n/t

[Bozita]

9. Neat thing about freepers: The executionee need not be guilty, just be convicted.

The old "eye for an eye" carried on a few steps beyond sanity.

[MonkeyFunk]

6. I'm deeply opposed to the DP

but when it IS instituted, making it last 34 minutes is inexcusable.

[Botany]

11. no excuses

if enough potassium is gotten to the heart muscle @ the right
amounts death is split second.

To have all that time to prepare and not have the "right cocktaisl"
of chemicals ready is inexcusable.

BTW just for $ reasons we should dump the the death penalty.

[MGD]

14. "BTW just for $ reasons we should dump the the death penalty."

OK, I'll bite, how do you come to that conclusion?

[Botany]

44. Because it takes much more money to carry out a capital case to the end

.. then life in prison. I forget the figures but the costs of a capital case
are staggering.

[Patiod]

46. There's also the impact on the jailers and executioners

NPR did an interesting series of interviews with jailers on Texas' death row, and the people who had to carry out the executions. Talked to many retirees who had the job as well.

It was surprising the emotional damage it did to these folks, and these were "tough guys" (in their own self-estimation).

The only question I have is what to do with the people who are still a threat to life even when imprisoned -- heads of violent prison gangs, gang leaders who are still controlling crime activities from inside of jails.

[intaglio]

69. Sorry but the cessation of the heartbeat is NOT death

or even the end of conciousness. Not only that but those who have been able to report on potassium infussion said that it was extremely painful.

[Psephos]

13. Death to the Death Penalty. n/t

[MadMaddie]

16. I think they should bring back hard labor for these criminals

I don't care if they are busting rocks, whatever....but everyday they could thank themselves for the situation they got themselves into...and if there is someone innocent they have a chance to prove it....just the possibility of executing the wrong person.....should make all states stop the death penalty....

[truthisfreedom]

17. It would be so easy to give them an overdose of morphine. Why do they use these

torturous concoctions? Wait, wait, don't tell me.

[RC]

34. I'll tell ya anyway...

One word: Addiction!
We can't be taking a chance of the executed being OD'd on something addictive. How would that look in the news? Why there might be a drop in drug crimes. Can't be having that now. Good people make a good living in the War Against Drugs. We must continue the fight!

[MGD]

83. That's a very good point. Fentanyl would be even better. nt

[David__77]

20. A firing squad is more humane.

China uses these, and it is more humane by far. US methods are just to soothe would-be guilty consciences.

[krispos42]

32. Actually, it's not

At least, not when the guns are held by the prison guards. Seems that if the condemned was considered particularly vile, the guards might "accidently" miss the vitals the first couple of shots...

One guy invented an automatic firing-squad device. It held four (IIRC) rifles pre-aimed at the condemned's chest. Just pull the string. Supposedly it worked quite well.

I think they were 1903 Springfield in .30-'06. Plenty to ruin somebody's day.

[benEzra]

68. Than lethal injection? No way,

A firing squad is more humane.

Than lethal injection? No way, unless they're shooting to the head.

IIRC, even complete transection of the aorta and cessation of blood flow to the brain (most humane possible scenario) can leave you up to 15 seconds of consciousness to feel the trauma in your chest--and I'm sure that feeling your sternum shattered and your chest and torso ripped apart would involve a bit more pain than a venipuncture and drug administration. You may be incapacitated from loss of blood pressure, but you might not lose consciousness for an agonizingly long time.

And that's a best case. If they merely put a few holes in your heart, you might hang onto consciousness for 30 seconds. A minute. Five minutes. Longer than I'd want to feel that.

And if they miss the heart, and you get lung shot instead? You can hang on a long time with a collapsed lung and pneumothorax--long enough to get you to a hospital and save you, if you weren't being executed. Not humane at all.

[Gold Metal Flake]

22. We should have the Death Penalty.

It should be an option for certain crimes and should be available for those crimes just as soon as we finally perfect the legal process.

Until the legal process is perfect, there will always be a chance of executing innocent people. Sorry, a +/- tolerance on the guilt of those sentenced to death is simply not acceptable.

"We executed 100 prisoners last year and we estimate that over 90% were actually guilty of the crime they were executed for (applause)."

Of course these days there is no tolerance applied. The officials simply don't care. A dead body is progress, see?

[mvd]

23. And I don't think it ever will be perfect enough

Even if there was a way to get 100% accuracy (which we as humans can't do,) I just can't support it. Like others I get emotional, but I put that aside for what I think is best for the nation.

[Kiouni]

27. well they could...

add a paralytic to their little cocktail to keep him from moving. That might please the crowds. I personally am against the death penalty but it seems odd that nobody decided to add a drug that paralyzes the body like succ's to the mix.

for a listing of the drugs they use see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_injection#Lethal_injection_drugs

[intaglio]

72. There is a paralytic

Lethal Injection dosage: 100 milligrams

Pancuronium bromide (Trade name: Pavulon) is a non-depolarizing muscle relaxant (a paralytic agent) that blocks the action of acetylcholine at the motor end-plate of the neuromuscular junction. Binding of acetylcholine to receptors on the end-plate causes depolarization and contraction of the muscle fibre; non-depolarizing neuromuscular blocking agents like pancuronium stop this binding from taking place.

my emphasis

[Pastiche423]

28. When I was asked by a detective

working on my case if I wanted the death penalty for the man that robbed, raped, beat, stabbed, left me for dead and paralyzed me for life, I said no.

I wanted REVENGE. I wanted that man to live in solitary confinement for the rest of his life. To me, that was far worse than a quick death.

Unfortunately, I never got to voice my opinion, as he was never caught.

Twenty years later, I still feel the same. So, although I am against the death penalty, it is not for altruistic reasons.

[Evergreen Emerald]

43. Wow.

Words cannot describe how sorry I am that someone did that to you. I am also sorry that he was never caught.

[brentspeak]

109. I, for one, would like to see the man who did that you thrashing about in an electric chair

...though I know you would disagree.

My deepest sympathies and prayers for you.

[atomicdawg38]

30. I myself

could never kill a human being. Being in support of the DP is the same as killing someone yourself.

[tbyg52]

33. Random "fact" FWIW

I put quotes around "fact" because I haven't done my own research on this--just repeating something heard from our vet in our previous place of residence.

He said that the state of Texas refused to even consider using the same chemicals used to euthanize animals, back when they reinstated the death penalty, even though those chemicals are known to be fast and painless and would work the same way on people. They were concerned about the *appearance* of using them on people. So apparently they went with something less good and less tested for the sake of *appearance*. Tells you all you need to know.....

(BTW, I'm completely anti death penalty.)

[Roland99]

38. mmm boy. That will sure be a deterrent to anyone else. I fully expect all murders to now stop.

Yes, sir. No more murder and mayhem anymore folks. We're going to be living in the land of milk and honey now! Everyone is now deterred.

[SOS]

51. Since 1973

123 innocent people have been released from death row.
That alone should be enough to end the DP.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=6&did=110

I'd like to see non-violent offenders released and employed in a WPA-style program.
Prisons to remove the violent offenders from society.
No DP.

[underpants]

55. Thanks I didn't know what the number was

1 is too many

[struggle4progress]

56. Jailhouse informant, whose testimony doomed Diaz, later recanted: the informant ..

.. had claimed Diaz confessed to him while in jail, but later said he had been angry at Diaz because he thought Diaz had double-crossed him regarding a jailbreak plan.

Angel Nieves Diaz: Motion for Relinquishment
http://www.courttv.com/news/misc/docs/diaz-relinquishment.html

[Rex]

71. So he got treated like animals in a shelter, getting put to sleep.

The state "put him to sleep".

Rollover.

Sit.

Beg.

Play dead.

[phusion]

74. This guy I know...

tried to call me a hypocrite because I don't support the death penalty yet I support a cop that has to shoot and kill someone in a self-defense situation.

I don't even want to argue with him because the logic is just whack. Why waste my time?

edit: This is a horrible story. :(

[cyr330]

76. outrageous

What the hell were they doing executing someone 30 years after the fact anyway? I'm certainly NOT a proponent of the death penalty under any circumstance, but this is particularly egregious.

[greccogirl]

85. I just don't understand this.

What is so hard about putting someone to sleep? Thousands upon thousands of people are put into a unconscious state every day for surgery - what is so difficult about doing it for executions?

[Bridget Burke]

91. Even surgical patients sometimes "wake up"...

In about 0.15% of patients undergoing general anesthesia, the anesthetic is inadequate to keep the patient unconscious during an operation. It may be inadequate from the beginning, or wear off during the operation. In this situation, a patient may feel the pain of surgery, pressure, hear conversations, and feel as if they cannot breathe. The patient may be unable to communicate any distress because they have been given a paralytic/muscle relaxant. Some patients become aware but do not feel pain or other unpleasant sensations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anesthesia_awareness

There's been speculation that some receiving "lethal injection" were, indeed, paralyzed from one of the drugs. But they felt the pain, fully.

There is really no clean & neat way to kill a human being.

[greccogirl]

98. 0.15%? I'm sorry - but I have probably had 15 surgeries in

my life and I have never "woken up" from any of them. This isn't rocket science - it just shouldn't be this hard - somebody isn't doing something right.

[Bridget Burke]

99. I think you've got the fractions wrong....

But, in surgery or in lethal injections, it's possible that somebody isn't doing something right.

However, surgery is usually necessary.

[krispos42]

108. Neat or clean, but not both

Usually fastest is messist, neatest is slowest.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gulfcoastliberal]

94. Those favoring the death penalty live in a bubble of delusion.

A sociopathic bubble of delusion.

[SKKY]

103. I so badly want to allow myself to get sucked into your response...

...but I won't. I'll just say, I'm neither a sociopath nor living in a bubble of delusion, and I am absolutely for the
death penalty.

[reprobate]

107. I'll be for the death penalty too. When human judgement is error free.

[toopers]

96. Actually, it almost took 30 years . . .

34 minutes for 30 years, sounds like a hell of a deal.

[demobrit]

105. Execution is wrong

Life in prison without parole for premeditated murder is a just punishment.
Each case should be judged individualy,the likelyhood of parole in some cases after a substantial time in prison.

[MrSlayer]

110. I don't get why hanging is considered cruel. It's instantaneous.

Firing squad is pretty quick and efficient as well. This lethal injection is bullshit. Waiting 30 years to carry out the sentence is bullshit too.