AP/NYT: 2 Parishes in Virginia Break From Episcopal Church

[Patsy Stone]

Filed at 1:48 p.m. ET

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Episcopalians-Split.html

FAIRFAX, Va. (AP) -- Two of the largest Episcopal parishes in Virginia voted overwhelmingly Sunday to break from The Episcopal Church and join fellow Anglican conservatives forming a rival U.S. denomination.

Truro Church in Fairfax and The Falls Church in Falls Church plan to place themselves under the leadership of Anglican Archbishop Peter Akinola of Nigeria, who has called the growing acceptance of gay relationships a ''satanic attack'' on the church.

The archbishop hopes to create a U.S. alliance of disaffected parishes called the Convocation of Anglicans in North America. Truro rector Martyn Minns was consecrated a bishop in the Church of Nigeria earlier this year to lead Akinola's American outreach.

Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori is saddened by any split from the church and will consult her advisers on how the denomination should respond, said Bob Williams, the national Episcopal spokesman.

[VegasWolf]

1. So Satan himself is attacking the church through gay marriage. Crazy fuckers! nt

[Patsy Stone]

2. I say

good riddance.

[Bitwit1234]

3. Don't you just love all the Christians

Isn't one of Jesus's teaching to love thy neighbor...It seems to me the right wing nutso in these religions organizations are anything but Christians.

[IndianaGreen]

4. I hate them all!

The misogyny and homophobia one finds among fundie Christians is systemic to the 3 monotheistic (and patriarchal) religions.

Despite the efforts of the best Christians (and Muslims, and Jews) there is something really rotten in the dark corners of their respective theologies. This is something that must be confronted head on by the adherents of these faiths if they hope not to be relegated into irrelevancy.

We are all alone and there is no supreme being out there to save us from our own folly!

[VegasWolf]

6. Exactly, but the Christans are only monothesistic in an extremely limited sense,

given their three headed (triune) god.

[brer cat]

So you hate us ALL because of a few?

[IndianaGreen]

28. It's your fucken theology that keeps women down and hates LGBTs

Like I said in my post, despite the efforts of the best among Christians, you can't run away from a theology, a Bible if you will, that is full of hateful shit.

[TrogL]

33. Most "clobber passages" aren't actually homophobic

http://members.shaw.ca/trogl/bibquote.html

[Occulus]

29. I can't feel that my life is safe when walking down the street holding hands with someone I care for

and I couldn't marry him anyway BECAUSE OF YOUR RELIGION.

How the FUCK would YOU feel?

[CurtEastPoint]

5. Look up those churches... they are NOT mainstream Episcopal

Truro Church has this on their FAQ list:

Q: Where can I find out more about healing from homosexuality?
A: Here are a few links:

Regeneration is a ministry in the DC area.
Exodus International is an umbrella organization.
Love Won Out hosts national conferences.
Robert Gagnon is a New Testatment scholar.

The Falls Church has hand-waving worshippers (a la pentecostals). Their alignment w/the Nigerian archie is typical of fundies. One of them even has this blather on their home page...

A Statement of Clarification:

In a recent Washington Post article, Archbishop Peter J. Akinola was characterized as “an advocate of jailing gays.” That is not true.

Archbishop Akinola believes that all people—whatever their manner of life or sexual orientation—are made in the image of God and deserve to be treated with respect. “We are all broken and need the transforming love of God,” Archbishop Akinola said to me during a recent conversation.

Hey, Archbishop... Break THIS!

[BayCityProgressive]

7. I love

seeing the Christians fight among themselves! OMG a homosexual!!! BOO!! By the time they are done squabling about all of these idiotic issues no one will even care about Christianity anymore. Europe for the most part has already abandoned the faith for secularism, atheism, new age/pagan and eastern religions. The Christians are breaking all of the rules set forth by Jesus such as love they neighbor and do not judge. This will cause their own downfall.

[JerseygirlCT]

26. I don't think so.

I think these are the growing pains of a new dawn in the Christian church. And I think TEC is at the leading edge of that, along with some others. These breakaways are like the people in the South who resisted civil rights. They won't win out. Their view will be exposed for what it is, and their fits will only succeed in pointing toward the rest of the churches who are moving quickly toward full acceptance of gay and lesbian people.

[PassingFair]

8. This is GREAT for the Episcopal Church.

My mother is an Episcopalian and she feel like a
damn FREEDOM FIGHTER right now.
She is a member of the DBE and has never considered
herself a "liberal" until now.

This has empowered her, and her congregation to
REALLY THINK about HUMANITY and what it means to
be HUMAN and who should have "salvation" and why.

I think it's LONG OVERDUE and I'm all for it.

Can't believe my "Anglican" mother is pushing for
civil unions!

[annabanana]

9. not really

It's very hurtful for this schism to have occurred. It's really not the "Episcopalian" way of dealing with differences. The "via media" asks that divisive disagreements be left, sometimes for years, to be revisited when tempers have cooled and reason and contemplation have had a chance to work.

[PassingFair]

11. It has been empowering for my mother.

She has grown as a person.

It has given her a reason to take a stand.

And, to articulate it and advocate her views to others in her church.

Whether it is the Episcopalian "way" or not, this is a POSITIVE development for mankind.

[JerseygirlCT]

17. But the rest of TEC have been doing that.

The break-away schismatics have absolutely no interest in reconciliation, or understanding. All the contemplation in the world will not change their minds or allow them to even "live and let live". Heck these are still some of the same guys who continue to refuse to recognize WOMEN'S ordination for Pete's sake!

I don't think the schismatics are operating from a position of hot temper. I think rather this is all cooly-calculated. They will grasp their prejudice until the end.

And it is awful for our church, for our ability to do the work we should be doing, for the amount of love and peace in the world. But I think we should be very clear where the disruption is coming from.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. The average Episcopal church is full of people who have found

other denominations too rigid. It is also one of the most gay-friendly denominations over-all, despite the scattered exceptions.

In fact, The Falls Church and Truro are leaving in a huff because they are a distinct minority in the denomination as a whole, plus they're being egged on by The Institute for Religion and Democracy, which is funded by a bunch of right-wingers like Scaife.

[JerseygirlCT]

24. Exactly. I don't believe this is any sort of

spur of the moment, organic uprising... this is carefully calculated, supported by big money. These guys are making their move to secure a foothold in a "new" and alternate Anglican church in the US.

[QC]

37. "It's really not the 'Episcopalian' way of dealing with differences."

And these people aren't really Episcopalian. They are fundamentalists, with a few tongue-speakers thrown in.

I am happy to see them go.

[JerseygirlCT]

15. I can see the same in CT

Before the "CT Six" started all their fussing, I doubt the issue would have gotten big play. In typical Yankee fashion, the response to Gene Robinson would have been "oh yes, I'm told he's a good man, carry on" if they even had bothered to hear about it happening.

Now our careful bishop has declared that it's ok to perform same-sex blessings once a CU has been joined. More and more dioceses that have patiently attempted to work toward understanding and reconciliation are realizing that it ain't gonna happen, b/c the ultra-conservatives have no wish for that. They wish to hijack the Episcopal church and turn it into something else entirely.

Akinola is an awful man, from what I've read -- has spoken for jailing homosexuals in Nigeria. Lovely, huh? Very Christ-like.

Good grief. As if there aren't enough people in the world in pain. As if there aren't real problems we can address. Loving committed couples wishing to live their lives together is a threat to Christianity? These guys don't practice what I've learned, that's for sure.

[annabanana]

10. Please check out Archbishop Akinola

(not MY favorite Bishop)

from last March:
http://frjakestopstheworld.blogspot.com/2006/03/censure-peter-akinola.html

[IndianaGreen]

14. He is the product of Christian missionaries

How many missionaries were send to Africa in a misguided effort to "save" the people there?

[sofa king]

31. Yes, but he has all that unclaimed money in a Swiss bank account....

Sorry, couldn't resist yet another Spanish Prisoner joke.

[eppur_se_muova]

12. And now ... Property Rights

Several other congregations in the US have already left the national church but none so high profile as these, reports the BBC's religious affairs correspondent Jane Little.

However, the Episcopal Diocese of Virginia has warned the two parishes that they do not own their church property.

It is worth millions of dollars and our correspondent says the split could lead to years of litigation.
***
more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6188465.stm

So they're basically running their churches on someone else's property, now?

[JerseygirlCT]

18. Yup. There will be many legal battles, both ecclesiastical and

civil.

The rules say they leave, but the property belongs to TEC via the diocese.

It's going to be long, ugly and costly this fight. And for what?

[Critters2]

21. This is one advantage of the UCC

When the fundies want to leave, we just wave 'em a fond farewell. They get to keep everything, and we're free of 'em. It used to bother me when they'd leave, now I just see it as making the denomination more liveable for us lefties. My attitude is "Don't go away mad. Just go away."

[MountainLaurel]

27. That should get interesting

Both of the churches are on highly valuable real estate in the D.C. area.

[Morgana LaFey]

13. Oh, brother. I thought Episcopalians were in general more

enlightened than that.

How sad.

[gratuitous]

16. In general, they are

After all, the highest official in the American Episcopal church is a woman, and it was the ordination of a gay man as a bishop that set these pissy little sore losers in Virginia off. It's not surprising that in a denomination as widespread as the Episcopalians, some communities with several churches each, that birds of a feather would flock together, and one particular congregation would hew to a more conservative or traditional line than other congregations in the same area.

What bothers me most is that for centuries, the more welcoming people had to bide their time, wait their turn, work on their congregation's brothers and sisters through patience and persuasion. And when their viewpoint gained currency and acceptance, the people who oppressed their brothers and sisters had to skedaddle instead of staying in communion.

[JerseygirlCT]

19. In general, by a large majority, they are

these are the few, sick, hateful groups who so need to hold on to their bias against women and homosexuals that they will destroy their church to do it. And a Nigerian Bishop who seeks self-aggrandisement is only too happy to aid and abet.

[Critters2]

20. Am I wrong, or didn't the ARchbishop of Canterbury tell these African bishops

to stop meddling in ECUSA business? Anyone know? And if so, can they be disciplined--the bishops, that is?

[JerseygirlCT]

25. Yes, they are way out of line. But they don't give a flying leap

Until they see their funding from all those evil Episcopalian parishes has dropped off...

Which, knowing us, won't happen in spite of his horrible behavior.

[JVS]

38. Not listening to other bishops is an Anglican tradition

[GoddessOfGuinness]

22. I've performed in services at both of those churches.

I won't be taking gigs at either in the future.

[kwassa]

30. from the Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/17/AR2006121700289.html

In all, the eight parishes that finished voting yesterday represent about 5 percent of the 90,000-member Virginia diocese.

unquote

Much noise and smoke, but they will walk away without the buildings. It is great that Bishop Lee, who is pretty conservative himself, is standing up to these churches.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

36. The homophobes are going to fight to keep the property...

I hope they lose.

Truro and The Falls Church are historic landmarks. I'd hate to see them retained in the hands of those who are so opposed to liberty.

[TrogL]

32. Good for them. Maybe they'll take the rest of the crazies with them

...and regular Anglicans can get back to proper Christianity.

[Critters2]

34. That's how I feel when the crazies threaten to leave the UCC...

There's the door! Have a good life....now where were we?

[regnaD kciN]

35. Considering those two particular parishes, this Episcopalian says...

..."Don't let the door hit you in the apse on the way out." ;-)