Reuters: Raul Castro calls for more policy debate in Cuba

[Eugene]

Raul Castro calls for more policy debate in Cuba

By Anthony Boadle
Reuters
Wednesday, December 20, 2006; 9:17 PM

HAVANA (Reuters) - Cuba's interim leader Raul Castro, signaling a different style
of government from his ailing brother Fidel Castro, on Wednesday called for greater
debate on public policies in the communist-run country.

"Sometimes people fear the word disagree, but I say the more debate and the more
disagreement you have, the better the decisions will be," he told students in Havana.

Raul Castro said he was delegating more responsibilities and making fewer speeches
than his famously verbose brother, and running the country of 11 million in a more
collegial way.

-snip-

His designated successor Raul Castro, 75, said Cuba's one-party political system, or
the "Revolution" as its backers call it, will continue with or without his brother.

-snip-

Full article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/20/AR2006122001825.html

[IndianaGreen]

1. Cuba has a debate on public policies, while in America

the Decider is going to tell us what he is going to do in Iraq, without a public debate!

[Pavulon]

40. Debate= dictator dictates, here votes count.

[IndianaGreen]

47. Tell that to the voters in Florida 13 Congressional District! Their votes did not count!

As the documentary "Hacking Democracy" showed, it is the Diebold software that determines who wins an election, not the voters.

The latest outrage was in the Florida 13th Congressional District:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2664195

[David__77]

2. Beware "perestroika."

They should beware "reform" that could ruin the country like what happened to Russia. The have to be flexible but not surrender certain core principles. For instance, the people's property should not be "sold" to greedy exiles and bureaucrats.

[jaysunb]

3. Amen !

:thumbsup:

[Posteritatis]

4. Glasnost is always good, on the other hand.. (n/t)

[David__77]

10. Agreed.

That said, progressives should never be passive in the face of their opponents in the name of "free speech." Right-wingers should always be aggressively confronted.

[Freddie Stubbs]

6. Yeah, too bad what happened to the USSR

[David__77]

9. I sense sarcasm, but I agree with your statement.

It is too bad. The Soviet people had a chance to create a real alternative to capitalism and they were sold out by their "communist" bureaucrats who longed only to acquire public assets. There's been one massive looting operation since 1991. Real investment had plummeted, industry has collapsed, unemployment and crime skyrocketed. Even life expectancy and public health has greatly sufferred. So, yes, I say "too bad what happened to the USSR."

Democratic restructuring could have occurred, but it DID NOT. What occurred was a bureaucratic coup d'etat. The Soviet people voted to maintain the union in early 1991 by a large margin, in every republic. Yeltsin and others met in a forest to unilaterally dismember it only months later, contrary to the people's wishes.

[hack89]

28. You say the "Soviet people" voted

to maintain the union but aren't you really saying that the Russian majority wanted to maintain control over the other republics? Do you really believe that the people of Latvia, Estonia, Georgia, Ukraine, etc wanted union over true independence?

[Selatius]

7. The IMF called the privatization program it imposed on Russia "Shock Therapy."

[IndianaGreen]

14. It was shock therapy alright

People lost their jobs, pensioners lost their pensions, law and order broke down.

[killbotfactory]

20. Didn't they call it that when they fucked over Chile, too?

[roody]

39. Our State Dept's plans are posted here.

http://www.state.gov/p/wha/rt/cuba/commission/2004/c12237.htm

[Mika]

5. Castro tries to dispel fear, meanwhile.. Bush exploits it to the max. n/t

__________________________________________________________________________________

[Selatius]

8. Glasnost is good.

More political freedom.

Maybe Cuba could move toward a more democratic socialism when Castro is gone, start spinning off some of the state-run enterprises into worker co-ops to let workers decide how production should be set.

[David__77]

11. The problem with that...

Workers at well-invested state firms would end up with more lucrative "shares" than those at necessary, but less productive firms. If income is tied to production, chance and nothing else will determine relative income. On the other hand, if income is set by the state, what is the meaning of "cooperative" versus state-owned enterprises?

[Selatius]

12. Well, as a supporter of market socialism, I say let the market set wages.

I would say the best method is to tie pay to an hourly wage instead of to the rate of production. In the past, private manufacturing firms worked workers to the bone by paying workers per piece they assembled. When workers fought for and won unionship, they demanded to be paid per hour instead of per piece. I generally support that direction with spinning off state-run enterprises. The best way to achieve market competition is to take a firm and break it up into several firms and turn over management of each segment over to workers. A market is created between these several firms competing for customers, and wages will necessarily have to be set according to market forces, but the difference here is that ownership of these enterprises is owned by workers instead of by a few bankers or industrialists or shareholders, and the fruits of labor would necessarily be left for workers to enjoy.

Primary sectors of the economy, as opposed to secondary or tertiary sectors, will likely still be state-run.

[David__77]

13. Ah, with the last sentence you addressed my concern.

I'm kind of up in the air about "market socialism." It's producing good results in China and Vietnam. But state planning has also produced good results, particularly in the phase of intensive capital accumulation.

[bunyip]

50. I like the way you think, Selatius

A market is created between these several firms competing for customers, and wages will necessarily have to be set according to market forces, but the difference here is that ownership of these enterprises is owned by workers instead of by a few bankers or industrialists or shareholders, and the fruits of labor would necessarily be left for workers to enjoy.

That's the kind of Socialism I could support - preserving motivation and entrepreneurialism but removing the injustice of passively accumulating inherited wealth.

[Say_What]

15. Cuba's Raul Castro signals more openness

Guaranteed these article give the MiamiGUSANOS ulcers. Like Fidel's favorite Ditzy-Balistic nephew, pictured below. :evilgrin:

<clips>

HAVANA - Raul Castro signaled a new leadership style in comments published Thursday, promising fewer speeches, more power sharing, and a willingness to hear different views as he fills in for his "irreplaceable" brother Fidel.

The Communist Party newspaper Granma said Raul Castro told about 800 university leaders they should "fearlessly" engage in public debate and analysis — expressing a different leadership style than that of his 80-year-old brother.

"The first principle in constructing any armed forces is the sole command," said the younger Castro, who became Cuba's provisional leader five months ago when
Fidel Castro stepped aside after emergency intestinal surgery. "But that doesn't mean that we cannot discuss. That way we reach decisions, and I'm talking about big decisions."

Fidel Castro's nearly five-decade rule as Cuba's "Maximum Leader" was characterized by meandering, hours-long speeches, unquestioned decisions and micromanagement of government programs and policies.

After announcing his illness on July 31, Fidel Castro named six trusted people to run key projects he had handled alone. Raul, Cuba's defense minister since 1959 and his brother's long constitutionally designated successor, was given temporary powers as president and head of the ruling Communist Party.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061221/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cuba_raul_castro_3



Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart, R-Fla., left, talks to Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., after attending a U.S.-Cuba Democracy PAC annual lunch in Coral Gables, Fla., Wednesday, Dec. 20, 2006. With Fidel Castro's health waning, Gov. Jeb Bush, Gov.-elect Charlie Crist and other federal and state officials reaffirmed their support of the U.S. trade embargo on Cuba in hopes it will lead to the communist government's downfall upon his death. (AP Photo/Alan Diaz)

[Say_What]

16. Rep. Flake leads push to reopen Cuba ties

Interesting reasons why Flake is so outspoken about getting rid of the embargo...

<clips>

...At the core of Flake's explanation is his belief that opening trade and travel into a country fosters democracy. He says he sees inconsistencies in U.S. policy toward Cuba compared with communist governments in China, North Korea and Vietnam. "It's a freedom issue," he says.

Flake, who turns 44 on Dec. 31, is a practicing Mormon who grew up on a ranch in Snowflake. He says his interest in Cuba dates from his service as a Mormon missionary in southern Africa in the early 1980s, "where the Cuban issue was at the forefront."

He returned to southern Africa to serve from 1989 through 1990 as executive director of the Foundation for Democracy. The group monitored democratic progress in Namibia, which gained its independence in 1990.

Even as they embraced democracy, he says, many in that country admired Cuban President Fidel Castro because he supported them when nobody else would.

Flake, a member of the House International Relations Committee, is no admirer of Castro. He has refused to meet with the leader in past trips, calling him a thug. But he says U.S. policy should not keep other voices from reaching Cuban people.

Less than six months after taking his congressional seat in 2001, Flake got his House colleagues to pass an amendment lifting restrictions on U.S. citizen travel to Cuba. But the Bush administration and Republican leaders removed it in negotiations with the Senate.

By early 2002, Flake had teamed with Rep. Bill Delahunt, a liberal from Massachusetts to form the House Cuba Working Group, a bipartisan collection of lawmakers dedicated to ending the travel ban and normalizing U.S.-Cuban relations.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/1221flake-cuba1221.html

[Say_What]

17. PUKE ALERT: Bush praised as state's 'first Cuban-American' governor

All GUSANOS were at Coral Gables today demanding that the failed embargo stay in place. Along with them some DouchBag Dem, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who's part of a bipartisan group to support that effort, and Repuke Sam Brownback from Kansas touting *conservative values*--each with both hands out for contributions. :puke:

<clips>

A crush of the Cuban-American community's power brokers honored outgoing Gov. Jeb Bush today in a loving farewell to a leader the exile community sees as the most staunch champion of their cause -- a free Cuba -- in the state's history.

''As a Cuban American, I want to thank you for being what I would call, in my mind, the first Cuban-American governor,'' U.S. Sen. Mel Martinez said. ``Not only with his language but also with his understanding and intrinsic love for the Cuban people . . . he has been an immense help to the cause of freedom.''

Bush responded with equal affection. ''If Bill Clinton can be the first African-American president, I can be the first Cuban-American governor,'' he said during his address to hundreds of supporters.

The event, the annual lunch of the U.S.-Cuba Democracy PAC, drew a who's who of the exile community and its supporters to the Biltmore Hotel in Coral Gables, including Republican U.S. Reps. Lincoln and Mario Díaz-Balart and Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a Democrat.

In his remarks, Bush referred to the controversial comments of Colorado Republican Rep. Tom Tancredo, who last month called Miami a ``Third World country.''

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/nation/16283926.htm


U.S. Senator Mel Martinez, R-Fla., right, talks to reporters as Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, left, Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart, R-Fla., left background, and Mario Diaz-Balart, R-Fla., look on after attending a U.S.-Cuba Democracy PAC annual lunch in Coral Gables, Fla., Wednesday, Dec. 20, 2006. Federal and state officials reaffirmed their support of the U.S. trade embargo on Cuba in hopes it will lead to the communist government's downfall upon his death. (AP Photo/Alan Diaz)


Sens. Mel Martinez, R-Fla., left, and Sam Brownback, R-Kan., arrive at the U.S.-Cuba Democracy PAC annual lunch in Coral Gables, Fla., Wednesday, Dec. 20, 2006. (AP Photo/Alan Diaz)

[Judi Lynn]

21. So that's how they look all dressed up. Wish I could say it's an improvement!

The photo of the Diaz-Balarts lurking behind _{Jeb Bush} and Mel Martinez is gruesome enough. It would be hard to find four less obnoxious people all in one spot. Makes you shudder imagining what it would have been like to have to spend the day with them and their vicious friends.

[Mika]

18. Love the pic. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz is as neocon on Cuba & Ven as they get.

I've heard her on local Miami radio shows talking about the dictator of Venezuela - Hugo Chavez.

She's as whacked as the Diaz Balart bros on Cuba & Ven.

[Say_What]

19. She looks like a f*ck'n pyscho queen... who the f*ck would vote for her??

Oh, I forgot, it's Florida and there's no doubt GUSANO dinero behind her. ;-)

[roody]

38. Debbie is seriously underweight.

[robcon]

22. Does ANYBODY really believe Castro?

Actions, not words. Fidel has been selling this snake oil for decades. His brother will have to put up.

[IndianaGreen]

24. Does anybody really believe Bush and the exile scum?

The Cubans in Cuba will determine the future of Cuba, not a bunch of erectile dysfunctional neocons in America and their CANF allies.

Viva Cuba! Down with Guantanamo concentration camp!

[BestCenter]

25. You call the exiles scum?

Do you think the Taiwanese are scum as well?

[IndianaGreen]

29. They voted for Jeb and George Bush, so they are scum

They are also religious wackos with all the trimmings: anti-Semitic, homophobic, and they want to establish a Christian government in Cuba.

[Mika]

31. IG didn't call all Miamicubanos "scum"..

.. he was referring to a subgroup of Bush supporting, terrorist supporting Cuban "exiles" who are scum.

Google - Cuban exiles +terrorism

[Say_What]

46. Depends... if it's the GUSANOS you're referring to...

f*ck'n A they're scum. More accurately they're terrorists and it's very well documented. Try to stay on topic.

<clips>

...1974 Exile leader José Elias de la Torriente murdered in his Coral Gables home after failing to carry out a planned invasion of Cuba.

1974 Bomb blast guts the office of Spanish-language magazine Replica.

1974 Several small Cuban businesses, citing threats, stop selling Replica.

1974 Three bombs explode near a Spanish-language radio station.

1974 Hector Diaz Limonta and Arturo Rodriguez Vives murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1975 Luciano Nieves murdered after advocating peaceful coexistence with Cuba.

1975 Another bomb damages Replica's office.

1976 Rolando Masferrer and Ramon Donestevez murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1976 Car bomb blows off legs of WQBA-AM news director Emilio Milian after he publicly condemns exile violence.

1977 Juan José Peruyero murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1979 Cuban film Memories of Underdevelopment interrupted by gunfire and physical violence instigated by two exile groups.

1979 Bomb discovered at Padron Cigars, whose owner helped negotiate release of 3600 Cuban political prisoners.

1979 Bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1980 Another bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1980 Powerful anti-personnel bomb discovered at American Airways Charter, which arranges flights to Cuba.

1981 Bomb explodes at Mexican Consulate on Brickell Avenue in protest of relations with Cuba.

1981 Replica's office again damaged by a bomb.

1982 Two outlets of Hispania Interamericana, which ships medicine to Cuba, attacked by gunfire.

1982 Bomb explodes at Venezuelan Consulate in downtown Miami in protest of relations with Cuba.

1982 Bomb discovered at Nicaraguan Consulate.

1982 Miami Mayor Maurice Ferre defends $10,000 grant to exile commando group Alpha 66 by noting that the organization "has never been accused of terrorist activities inside the United States."

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/issues/2000-04-20/mullin.html

[Vidar]

27. Much more than than the corporate whores who pass for our leaders.

[robcon]

23. I call bullshit

Fidel Castro has claimed freedom of expression or freedom of speech, then imprisoned or executed political dissidents.

I think this quote is revealing: "His designated successor Raul Castro, 75, said Cuba's one-party political system, or the "Revolution" as its backers call it, will continue with or without his brother."

[Judi Lynn]

26. You've been asked previously to provide ANY links to information

on dissidents who have been executed in Cuba. It's about time to go ahead and post a link to back up that claim, or someone may "call bullshit" (Loathsome term, isn't it? Ugly, ignorant, and clumsy) on you.

[IndianaGreen]

30. The poster relies on Faux News as sole source of information

which is why all we get from him/her are rightwing American Enterprise Institute slogans on Cuba, Chavez, Venezuela's Bolivarian Revolution, etc.

[Mika]

32. Very revealing.

So, as it turns out, Cuba's Revolution is not a cult of personality (namely Fidel's).

It will continue, Castros or not. Why? Because the vast majority of Cubans in Cuba support their system of government.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mika]

34. I guess that I should provide some links (unlike many of Cuba's detractors)

CIA: Most Cubans loyal to homeland
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ019.html

Some info on Cuba's elections..

http://www.radiohc.cu/ingles/elecciones/eleccciones-portada.htm


http://www.poptel.org.uk/cuba-solidarity/democracy.htm

{The} system in Cuba is based upon universal adult suffrage for all those aged 16 and over. Nobody is excluded from voting, except convicted criminals or those who have left the country. Voter turnouts have usually been in the region of 95% of those eligible .

There are direct elections to municipal, provincial and national assemblies, the latter represent Cuba's parliament.

Electoral candidates are not chosen by small committees of political parties. No political party, including the Communist Party, is permitted to nominate or campaign for any given candidates.

[robcon]

36. Where did you get the impression it wasn't a 47 year cult?

Mika: "So, as it turns out, Cuba's Revolution is not a cult of personality (namely Fidel's). "

What in the world leads you to believe that?

[Mika]

37. Cuba

Been there. Seen it. Many times.

Worked with Cubans. Played with Cubans.

Taught Cubans. Learned from Cubans.

Married a Cuban.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mika]

43. The cult of Fidel is almost wholly owned by the Castro haters/Castrophobes

The history of the 1959 Revolution is taught in Cuban schools and the Castros are an integral part of that history, but only a part of it. The revolution was/is for the people and by the people. Only the Castro haters are constantly fixating on Castro as the be-all end-all of Cuba and Cuba's government, and in Cuba that is only a small percentage of people.

The hard-line Miamicubano anti Castro "exiles" are the creators and followers of the so called 'Castro cult'. They are, as are you, truly deluded in this regard.

[Judi Lynn]

42. It would lead a normal person to imagine you probably know of what you speak, Mika!

Your immersion in that island, over time, your actual working relationship with people in the medical field there, your time working in other capacities on other occassions there, your travel all over the island from one end to the other, up and down mountains on all forms of transportation and on foot, the circle of friends you developed over the years, and last, but not least, your wife and her family would convince me you're probably knowledgeable!

Meanwhile, someone who knows a right-wing loon in Miami is NOT a source of any kind of valid, trustworthy information, that's my complete conviction.

[Mika]

44. And.. the name calling is right in line..

.. with the right-wingers who are fixated (like a cult) on Castro and the past.


Meanwhile.. Cubans in Cuba are moving forward, with or without Fidel. It is their revolution, their country, not Castro's nor the USA's.

[Judi Lynn]

45. The very idea these clowns at whatever university that is working on Bush's plan would dream of

wrecking Cuba's world-famous medical system, and educational system and redoing it all in their right-wing image, with privatization back in play is proufoundly evil.

That alone should make the Cubans ready to fight to the very last person to keep their country.

I've seen reports written by Cubans published which indicate they are completely aware of what our right-wing is planning for them, and they most surely intend to defend their own country. Who wouldn't?

[JVS]

35. I call for less!

;-)

[Judi Lynn]

48. Cuba related program activity! "College's Cuba program advances"

College's Cuba program advances

December 26, 2006

By Bruce Edwards Herald Staff

Some Burlington College students could be heading to Cuba as early as next year as part of a new semester abroad program.
(snip)

Because of the 46-year-old trade and travel embargo of the communist island of 11.4 million people, any business, educational or cultural contact with Cuba requires U.S. government approval.

The Bush administration has made it more difficult to forge educational ties with Cuba, discouraging many colleges from setting up or continuing programs.
(snip)

Both Baird and Ellis said Cubans they talked to voiced concern about life after Fidel Castro and the intentions of the United States. The ailing 80-year old ruler temporarily ceded power this summer to his younger brother, Raul.

"These young people were very uneasy about what the (United States) might do," Baird said.
(snip/...)

http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061226/NEWS/612260320/1011/BUSINESS

[Judi Lynn]

49. Alabama hopes to continue its limited commerce with Cuba.

December 26, 2006

Editorial
Cuba's needs match Alabama's products


A little home cooking never hurts. On a visit to Cuba last week, Agriculture Commissioner Ron Sparks and staff prepared a traditional Southern meal with Alabama products for government officials as part of the ongoing effort to increase trade with the island nation.

The meal might have won over some palates -- it's hard to beat fried catfish, cornbread, butter beans, green bean casserole, coleslaw, pecan pie and sweet tea -- but the real selling point for Alabama is the exceptionally good match between the needs of Cuba and the products Alabama has to offer. Sparks is absolutely correct to continue pursuing expanded trade with Cuba.

"Over the past several months, there have been many rumors as to the future of Cuba because of President Castro's health," Sparks said in an interview with The Associated Press. "We felt that it was important for us to make this trip because we want to ensure that no matter what happens with Cuba, that Alabama will be able to continue our trade relationship."

The potential is tremendous. Cuba particularly needs poultry and timber products. Alabama has lots of both, and the capacity to produce more.

Last year, Cuba bought $140 million in Alabama products, about one-third of its total purchases from the United States, according to Sparks. That could grow significantly in the years ahead.
(snip/...)

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061226/OPINION01/612220363/1012/OPINION

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mobile, Alabama was the first American city, years ago, to work out a sister-city arrangement with a Cuban town, a real ground-breaking experience:

Mobile, Alabama was the first U.S. city to establish fraternal ties with a city in Cuba. The City of Mobile, with ancient historical ties to Havana, has developed exemplary relations with the Cuban capital. The Society was organized in the spring of 1993 and the fraternal arrangement officially began in October 1993 when Mobile’s mayor and council and Havana’s mayor signed the twinning agreement.

Several exchanges of delegations have taken place, including scholars, artists, religious figures and musicians. The Cuban ecumenical choir SHALOM gave concerts at schools, City Hall and various churches, including the Mobile Cathedral. Several ministers, the Bishop of Cuba, Cuba’s representative in Washington and noted historian Eusebio Leal, among others, have visited Mobile. The mayor of Mobile, along with other city officials and members of the Society have traveled to Havana to visit hospitals, schools, museums and public agencies.
(snip/...)

http://www.uscsca.org/Mobile-Habana.htm