U.S. soldiers tell Pentagon chief send more troops

[maddezmom]

By Kristin Roberts

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - New Defense Secretary Robert Gates asked ordinary soldiers on the ground in Baghdad on Thursday for advice on fixing the war effort, and he received the same answer time and again -- bring in more American troops.

"Sir, I think we need to just keep doing what we're doing," Spc. Jason Glenn of Mount Grove, Missouri, told Gates over breakfast at Camp Victory.

"I really think we need more troops here. With more presence on the ground, more troops might hold them (the insurgents) off long enough to where we can get the Iraqi army trained up," Glenn said.

The soldier's views were echoed by others who sat down with Gates to talk about a war that both the defense secretary and President George W. Bush say the United States is not winning more than three years after the U.S.-led invasion.

more:http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-12-21T091231Z_01_ARM132867_RTRUKOC_0_US-IRAQ-USA-GATES.xml

Gates Hears Doubts From War Commanders

~snip~
BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Defense Secretary Robert Gates is hearing doubts from war commanders about what could be accomplished by a possible increase of U.S. troops in Iraq, but some of the troops on the ground say it would be a good idea.

"Secretary Gates is going to be an important voice in the Iraq strategy review that's under way," Bush told reporters at a White House news conference Wednesday.

After meeting with top U.S. generals at Camp Victory, Gates said Wednesday that he had only begun to determine how to reshape U.S. war policy. "We discussed the possibility of a surge and the potential for what it might accomplish," he told reporters.

He acknowledged that that rushing thousands more Americans to the battlefront could prompt Iraqis to slow their effort to take control of their country, calling that "clearly a consideration" in mapping out future strategy.

"The commanders out here have expressed a concern about that," Gates said.

Top U.S. commanders also have worried that even a short-term troop increase might bring only a temporary respite to the violence -- or none at all -- while creating shortages of fresh troops for future missions.


more;http://www.courant.com/news/nationworld/ats-ap_top10dec21,0,4648701.story?track=rss

[magellan]

1. Ordinary soldiers would never tell Gates what they really felt

Some of them may believe more troops is the answer, but not all. They were telling the SecDef what he wanted to hear, as any soldier who respects the chain of command and cares about his butt in a war zone would.

If Gates really wanted to know what the troops think, he'd have to embed anonymously with them. That'd never happen for any number of reasons -- chiefly because BushCo don't care what the troops really think unless they're in agreement.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[magellan]

22. Welcome to DU, earlybelle!

And yes, sadly, at least some of them are thinking in precisely those terms. They don't remember Vietnam; they don't realize that what they're asking for won't spell victory but will only feed more soldiers like themselves into the grinder to be killed or horribly injured.

[Maeve]

23. No, they don't want to kill more Iraqis

They want to keep themselves, their comrades and the civilian population safe. And not frightened but overwhelmed.
These soldiers are our neighbors, sons and daughters.

[keopeli]

2. Kristen Roberts of Reuters would have us believe this is what most soldiers think.

Yet, all we really read is:

"Sir, I think we need to just keep doing what we're doing," from Spc. Jason Glenn

and that "The soldier's views were echoed by others who sat down with Gates to talk" from Kristen Roberts.

Yet, in her opening paragraph, she says:

"and he received the same answer time and again -- bring in more American troops."

How many is "time and again?"

Roberts has been known to tow the line for the military in the past. Just last August, she was justifying Don't Ask/Don't Tell (Some Parts of the Military Still Hostile to Gays), even though we know the truth from independent reports.

We are expected to believe that this "lunch with the SOD" crowd was randomly selected and represents the entire Army and Navy enlisted personnel.

Hogwash.

[druidity33]

15. how many?

Time and again is twice. Once the first time and then again makes two. Probably both soldiers who were bound somehow to see it our Preznits way. Whatever... i don't believe a single word in this article.

[xchrom]

3. i will not believe that all soldiers told gates

to send more troops.

nope.

[maddezmom]

5. wonder who picked the 15 "odinary soldiers"?

SOLDIERS' VIEWS

While unscientific and perhaps not representative of troops' thoughts overall, the soldiers' views are among those Gates is weighing as he drafts recommendations for Bush.

Gates has given little indication of what strategies he will recommend to the president after returning from Iraq.

But he is openly discussing the possibility of a short-term increase, or "surge," in U.S. troops to gain control over security in Baghdad, where sectarian killings and kidnappings terrorize the civilian population daily.

Gates' one-hour breakfast with the 15 ordinary soldiers, none of whom were officers, was largely a question-and-answer session, with the defense secretary asking the majority of questions and seeking advice on troop levels, a timeline for training Iraqis, sectarian leanings within the Iraqi security forces and the "caliber and discipline" of both Iraqi soldiers and their military leaders.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/21/AR2006122100149.html

[xchrom]

6. indeed.

who picked them is right.

it's disgusting as we have just heard that soldiers are asking to come home.

[Drifter]

18. or better yet ...

what do they get in return.

If you say this, then you can go home.

Cheers
Drifter

[lebkuchen]

44. My guess: Allison Barber, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense

Allison Barber is the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Internal Communications. She is responsible for American Forces Radio and Television Service (AFRTS), the Defense Media Center, the Pentagon Channel, several Department of Defense websites, and the Stars and Stripes newspaper, the American Forces Press Service.

On or around June 2, 2004 Allison Barber disclosed that AFRTS selects which programs to broadcast based on content, rather than popularity. In particular, Rush Limbaugh's radio program is broadcast, but Howard Stern's is not. <1>

On October 13, 2005 Allison Barber was videotaped while she was coaching soldiers preceding a live teleconference with President George W. Bush. <2> (My edit: The ten soldiers were hand selected, and all Bush supporters.)

Later that week (October 17), the debut of the Ed Schultz radio show on AFR was canceled. The cancellation notice came via a phone call from Barber. Schultz alleges that the cancellation was due to his criticisms over the staged troop conversation of October 13. The Pentagon alleges the Schultz show was never meant to air, that it had been scheduled by an overzealous employee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_Barber

[Barrett808]

51. Nice, thanks for the background. n/t

[0007]

53. The propaganda machine at work for junior and his crazy plans!

The ordinary troop in the field will tell 'ya that junior is a mad man that needs to be put away.


junior with a peanut size brain

[saigon68]

7. This story is a bullshit lie

These enlisted types by now know they fucked up by joining.

\\\ Anyone who loves to be there at this time is a Psychopath.

[xchrom]

8. ain't that right.

i'm sure the ''no spin zone'' was playing in the background.

[Massachusetts]

10. Bingo!

[lebkuchen]

46. I'm on an army base

Those returning to Germany from Iraq do NOT want a third tour. Neither do their families. They're glad the dems won back Congress.

We've lost Ramadi. (Anbar Province) Any soldier requesting to send more of his fellow soldiers into that hell had better watch his back when headed to the latrines for a late night wizz.

[Solly Mack]

4. Yeah, I believe that. LMAO

Riiight....

[cassiepriam]

9. So troops on the ground now make policy?

[GreenZoneLT]

11. Bless their hearts, those kids don't know anything

Iraq doesn't HAVE a military solution; it's a political problem being handled by the military (because the civilians sent over to handle it in the first place were such an incompetent parade of clowns). It's like hiring bricklayers to redo your wiring; they'll pitch in as hard as they can, but they're liable to plaster over all your outlets.

The turnover doesn't help; even the best new commander who comes in here takes six months to figure out that aggressive insurgent-hunting just makes matters worse. About the time they start talking to the local sheikhs, they rotate out and some NEW eager beaver comes in and everything falls apart again, because Iraqis work strictly on a face-to-face, personal relationship basis.

[saigon68]

12. Sounds like a fun place to visit ---- but I've seen it before

Can only wait to get back to "The World"

Tell me L. T. is it still referred to as "The World" ?

Do they have short timers calenders?

But I guess if you are "going back right away" these old symbols have no meaning.

[davhill]

37. Short timers calendars have no meaning

When you keep getting extended and extended. And when you do get stateside you are sent back after a short breather.

[saigon68]

50. It must be "SWEET" for morale

</sarcasm>

[matcom]

13. JUST saw this on CNN

Gates is listening to an E4????

:wtf:

my head is going to explode

[confludemocrat]

43. CNN probably reported it w/o making the obvious point this could be staged

knowing them.

[nitpicker]

14. The NY Times confirms rumors of added Navy ships

A front-page piece in the NY Times states the US and Britain will probably send extra ships and planes to the Persian Gulf early in the new year, confirming earlier rumors it is trying to send signals to Iran, defend oil lanes and be prepared to support any UN sanctions imposed.

[jwirr]

49. I think that is to convince Iran that we are serious about them and

their nukes. Welcome to DU.

[minnesota_liberal]

16. What the troops would like to say

Sir, I know you're the Big Cheese and you wouldn't have been given the job if you weren't aligned with our president, who's a psychopath and incapable of admitting a mistake. I realize that nothing I say will have any effect on what you do and that saying anything unpopular will ruin my military career and make my remaining time here a living hell. But still, you have to know that we're essentially fighting a fire with gasoline over here and the only smart course of action is to stop doing what we're doing and get out.

[Captain Hilts]

17. Misery likes company. nt

[liberal N proud]

19. PROPAGANDA!

[leesa]

21. Oh yes, I believe this. Too funny. Gates is the ultimate 'Yes Man'.

[Avalux]

24. Pentagon Propoganda Dept. busy at work -

NO WAY an Army Specialist would speak out in such a manner - and it was recorded - heard the audio on CNN this morning. This whole thing was orchestrated, and he was ordered to read from a script provided to him.

[underpants]

25. Soldiers in Iraq urge Gates to send more troops

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/iraq_dc

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - U.S. soldiers in Iraq urged new Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Thursday to send reinforcements but generals expressed concern that deploying more troops might delay the time when Iraqis take control.

FRONT-LINE TROOPS WANT REINFORCEMENTS

Gates had breakfast with U.S. soldiers to hear their views.

"Sir, I think we need to just keep doing what we're doing," Specialist Jason Glenn told Gates.

"I really think we need more troops here. With more presence on the ground, more troops might hold them (the insurgents) off long enough to where we can get the Iraqi army trained up."

None of the soldiers present said U.S. forces should be brought home, and none said current troop levels were adequate.

A senior defense official in Baghdad said U.S. commanders were concerned a surge in the number of troops would make the Iraqis feel less under pressure to take full responsibility for security.

"Look, the Iraqis are smart. They see what we do, and if we surge, they can step back," the official said.

[jody]

26. Gates only saw soldiers that had been screened to exclude those who oppose *'s war. n/t

[IndyOp]

27. Gag. Specially chosen Specialist tells Gates exactly what * wants to hear. (n/t)

:puke:

[Benhurst]

28. Yeah, I wonder how they were picked to have breakfast with the

Great One.

What a farce.

The World's Only Superpower is running on little but propaganda these days.

[underpants]

29. I read two things in those quotes- an admittance and a contradiction

I posted as much as I thought I could get away with (hard to call those paragraphs really) but still get the spirit of the article and the meeting with the troops that the headline references.

First- "hold them off"??? Sounds to me like Ft.Apache or something like that

Second- one soldier says more troops and the other says that a surge will send the wrong message to the Iraqis.

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. We determine global military strategy based on advice from enlisted troops?

Yeah, that's a good idea.

The worship of the troops has officially reached its apotheosis in this article.

Oh well, dumbfuck PFC Jimmy from Glendale says we need more troops in Iraq, so let's send 20,000 more! Just keep doing what we're doing, Jimmy said, adding "Git'r'done!"

And don't give me the "Oh, you're being elitist about the troops!" bullshit. Privates and spec 4's should have as much say in determining strategy at the theater-level as a freshman should have in determining the strategic plan at a university. To wit: ZERO.

[underpants]

34. Anymore than a single farmer can set agriculture policy

or that you have to be a farmer to have an opinion on agriculture policy. No you don't have to have been in Iraq to state an INFORMED opinion on this matter. Otherwise it would go something like this:

One soldier stands up and says," Let me finish this mission SIR!"

The Pentagon scrambles to fulfill this military/foreign policy initiative just as Pfc _____ says

The next soldier stands up and says," I want to go home"

(sound of screeching breaks) the whole DoD apparatus reverses course to appease the wishes of of Spc. _______

Yeah right.

I have wanted to make this point for a while. Thank you for making it.

[BOSSHOG]

31. I believe the Soldier was sincere but let me translate

If you motherfucking suits in Washington want us to do our fucking job then send us some more ground troops to cover our fucking asses so we can train these motherfuckers to do their own fucking protecting. Fucking shit or get off the fucking pot. Protect us or send our sorry fucking asses home, motherfucker, Sir!

[Ilsa]

41. There ya go!

I bet that is exactly what they were thinking!

[Double T]

32. If it looks and sounds like a setup and bushco is involved...........

YOU can be certain 'it are one'. The bushco propaganda machine attempts to sway public opinion.....again.

[rodeodance]

33. when you are in the midst of something ---there is the urge to say---just

a bit more, ......a bit harder.. ect ect

I can understand them-------don't agree.

[Webster Green]

35. When the idiotic plan fails......BushCo Inc. can blame: "The Troops"

Nice! They have sunk to new depths here.

[antiimperialist]

36. Misleading headline

"A few soldiers" should have been the term used. "Soldiers" gives the impression that a representative group of soldiers want more troops in Iraq.

But even if most troops wanted a surge, if China invaded us and the Chinese soldiers wanted more troops, it would still be an unjust invasion.

Plus most Iraqis want us out according to a State Department poll.

[cosmicdot]

45. wonder what John Rendon's doing these days?

is his Rendon Group on full-time retainer with the Pentagon? perhaps a blanket order, time and material contract to 'PR' our actions and strategy on an as required basis?

The Rendon Group
"The Chicago Tribune reports that the Rendon Group has garnered more than $56 million in Pentagon work since September 2001."
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Rendon_Group

"The Man Who Sold the War
Meet John Rendon, Bush's general in the propaganda war"
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/8798997/the_man_who_sold_the_war/

[KansDem]

38. My take on this...

Bush is getting heat on his "Iraq policy." Americans want the troops home now, but Bush's handlers say "no." Bush "fires" Rummy and installs Gates. Gates goes on a "fact-finding mission," which includes talking with GIs. The GIs echo what Bush wants. The Corporate Media reports "US Troops in Iraq want what Bush wants."

Sorry, I don't buy this for a second.

[daleo]

39. Someone cherry picked a few soldiers

To tell Gates what he wanted to hear, and the media parrots it like it means something. Pathetic. Don't any of them care about the election result? Talk about thumbing their nose at democracy.

[teryang]

40. Gates is a snake

he lies under oath, support terrorism, and demofakes give him a free pass.

He tells the troops, "I promise you,...er, ah, a, em...er, my decisions won't be political..."

Confronted with the young faces of those who will be maimed and die potentially, for his lying ambition, he almost couldn't come up with a lie to promise them.

[judaspriestess]

42. Camp Victory

that pretty much explains it all.

[thereismore]

47. ordinary soldiers should create policy? What's bush* for? It's his job. nt

[jwirr]

48. There is a reason why the ordinary soldiers do not run wars.

It would be impossible to go and die for something you recognize you are losing. It will also be one of the greatest pains for them when they come home. The anger of many of the Vietnam vets took years to work out. We had a friend who barricaded himself on his grandfather's farm for many many years until we found a veterans organization that was working to help vets like him. Today he is fine but it was touch and go for years.

[Joey Liberal]

52. As a former Soldier........

I can tell you that the whole thing was staged and those troops were told exactly what to say. If those guys had been my fellow Soldiers, I would have laughed in their faces.