SOME charges dismissed against 3 Duke rape case defendants

[spooky3]

reported on CBS-9 DC local news.

Rape charges dismissed--sexual offense and kidnapping charges remain.

Edited to add link:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061222/ap_on_re_us/duke_lacrosse

[sabra]

1. CNN Banner:

The Associated Press reports a defense attorney says prosecutors have dismissed rape charges against three Duke University lacrosse players, but charges of kidnapping and sexual offense still stand.

http://www.cnn.com/

[earlybelle]

68. Funny how a black could be hanged for just the "allegation" of rape against a white woman.

And there seems to be little required to prove rape of anyone by a black man (think about Mike Tyson). In this case, it may not have been rape according to the "legal" definition being used, but something really bad happened here and I hope the guilty are approriately punished.

[marshall]

78. That is precisely why I think the five men shoudl be identified

There is no DNA evidence linking any of the lacrosse players to the accuser, but there was DNA evidence linking five unknown men to her. Why did Nifong suppress that evidence and act as though it didn't exist? For all he knows five guys slipped her a roofie after the lacrosse engagement and all she has are hazy memories that have lead her to make an innacurate allegation. He's got three guys indicted, at least one of whom has a reportedly iron clad alibi, and meanwhile five possible suspects are not even being sought.

[atomicdawg38]

80. Ummmm....

You do realize she is a prostitute right and there could be another explanation for the DNA other than rape?

[pnwmom]

84. But she insisted (and repeated in a sworn statement)

that she had had consensual sex with no one for a week -- her boyfriend being the last one, a week earlier.

So. . . are you saying she's a liar?

[pnwmom]

87. Yes, "something really bad happened here." Really bad.

A prosecutor, facing a primary election in which he has being heavily outspent and was lagging severely behind his opponents, decided to frame three rich, white defendants and put himself in front of the cameras. He went from being nobody to being Mike Nifong, the champion of the poor black girl from the local university. And the resulting surge of support among black voters allowed him to win a plurality of votes.

[wakeme2008]

2. About time the case fell apart on the DNA evidence

which the DA withheld :grr:

[Kagemusha]

4. Apparently it's victim testimony changes alone.

The DNA evidence withholding (which I am not shy of calling Conspiracy against Rights - right to a fair trial, 10 years max in Club Fed) has not produced any consequences yet, but I am confident that it shall.

[pnwmom]

32. The students still face 40+ years on the remaining charges. Link.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003490814_weblacrosse22.html

Both rape and sexual offense carry the same possible sentence of up to 40 years in prison, while kidnapping is a lesser felony punishable by up to 171/2 years behind bars. Under state law, a rape charge requires vaginal intercourse, while sexual offense covers any sexual act.

SNIP

"The reality is, what else could the DA do?" said Stan Goldman, who teaches criminal law, evidence and criminal procedure at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles. "Once the DNA evidence came out last week, I can't imagine how they could sustain a rape charge."

But Wendy Murphy, a former prosecutor who now teaches at the New England School of Law, said the decision could actually help Nifong by keeping any discussion about the results of the DNA testing away from the jury.

"It may be that this is a strategic move to insulate the trial itself from a sideshow that certainly would have overwhelmed all the other evidence," Murphy said. "A sideshow about her sex life."

SNIP

[greccogirl]

41. I am absolutely APPALLED that this prosecutor insists on going

on with this when in reality he should be brought up on charges and disbarred.

[pnwmom]

51. Me, too, greccogirl.

And it's scary to think he could have a stronger case this way, without those pesky DNA results complicating matters.

[greccogirl]

58. He still doesn't have a case. All he has is the ever-changing

word of this woman - an illegal lineup and zero proof. Zero. I hope the department of justice removes Nifong or at least takes this over before any more money and grief is wasted on it.

[brooklynite]

3. That should get the war off the front page

...for the next 48 hours or so.

[madmusic]

13. This is a war too...

The fight for the Bill of Rights.

[pnwmom]

31. Exactly. Anyone who thinks this shouldn't matter to us

doesn't think that having fair and honest prosecutions shouldn't matter to us.

[underpants]

5. Is this that case where those young men were on scholarship

trying to further their lot in life and they were accused of something and the national news leapt to assumption about their behavior and guilt based on their upbringing and their parents situations?

I hate when that happens.

[Kelvin Mace]

26. While I believe the charges against the young men

should be dropped at once, they are not paragons of virtue. If you don't want these kind of issues to occur, you shouldn't have parties with alcohol (illegal at their age) and strippers.

[Kingshakabobo]

39. Isn't that called blaming the victim?

If they are, in fact, victims of a false accusation and prosecutor misconduct????

The potential prison term shouldn't be 40 years for hiring a stripper and pounding grain alcohol.

[Kelvin Mace]

47. Never said that

I have simply said that portraying them as clean-cut citizens who have been lured into iniquity is just as dishonest as what the actions of the DA and the woman.

The DA should be prosecuted. If the women filed a false complaint, she should be punished.

[Occulus]

54. But calling them completely innocent young men (TRUTH!) seems to be beyond you.

Curious, that.

[pnwmom]

52. Are you implying that the freshman and sophomore members

who were invited to this team party should have stayed home, but since they didn't, they would have deserved this to happen to them?

[Occulus]

55. Way to say that strippers are immoral and invite 'trouble'

And yes, that's exactly what you just implied, and don't you DARE try to deny it.

You're part of the reason why this case has been so blown out of proportion. They are innocent of this crime, and that's all you need to say about them.

In other words... stop dragging the victims' names through the mud. THEY don't deserve it.

edit: treat these guys like you would treat a rape victim. They have been raped of their dignity. They have been raped of their legal rights. They have been raped of their trust in the system.

THEY have been raped, metaphorically speaking. SHE has not.

[NashVegas]

69. Something Very Much Like That

The media and 1/4 of DU (admittedly, including myself) initially assumed something must have gone down, and we were assisted by the 'next time there will be no nudity, I skin them alive and cream in my pants' email.

Those poor innocent dears ...

[Triana]

6. Rape Charges Dropped in Duke Lacrosse Case

Posted: 3 minutes ago

Durham — Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong moved Friday to drop rape charges against three Duke University lacrosse players.

Nifong filed paperwork to dismiss forcible rape charges against Reade Seligmann, 20, Collin Finnerty, 20, and David Evans, 23. The players were indicted last spring after a North Carolina Central University student told police she was beaten and raped by three lacrosse players while performing as a stripper at a March 13 team party.

The players have denied any wrongdoing in the case, which has split the Durham community in recent months.

Nifong's investigator interviewed the woman Thursday, and she told the investigator that she couldn't "testify with certainty" that she was raped.

Prosecutors said they couldn't proceed without her testimony, so they decided to dismiss the rape charges in the case.

Nifong said he plans to proceed with kidnapping and sexual assault charges against the three players.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1115698/

[Crabby Appleton]

7. Wow, thanks for the update

what a screwed up case.

[SDGolfer]

8. They finally interview the victim

and quickly drop the rape charges after all of these months. And Nifong withheld evidence because he didn't want to drag people's names thru' the mud. I suspect that he's maintaining these other charges for a while just to try to save face.

[marshall]

25. Isn't this the FIRST time Nifong has interviewed her?

As recently as last month he was saying he hadn't gotten around to speaking to her about what happened.

[Debi]

28. Yep, no names were dragged through the mud

Just the national television media and every freaking newspaper and magazine available :eyes:

[Igel]

45. The interview *might* have produced useful results,

if it had been held in a neutral way. The fact that the story she's given to numerous sources suddenly changes to fit the evidence and only *then* is given to the DA stinks.

It's rather like having the DA invite his witnesses in his offices at 9 am and tell them get their story straight among themselves while he's out for the morning--but he'll be back after lunch to depose them.

Collusion is wrong. Having the DA enable it is heinous.

[greccogirl]

59. What evidence? So far I haven't seen any.

[Igel]

74. Fine, nitpick.

Since evidence is (under one definition) what's admitted in court, I'll rephrase.

The interview might have produced useful information had she been interviewed by the DA's office *before* the results of the DNA test were reported and discussed in court; this assumes that the reports of numerous witnesses to the hearing aren't all identically false.

As it is, it's too suspicious that her story now precisely matches what was previouslyreported for the DNA analyses, and directly contradicts what the materials turned over to the defense team (as reported by the press) say. Surely it's a mere coincidence that the DA finally interviewed her last week, *after* after the reports on the DNA swabs become a matter of public discussion, and, although the DA had the DNA analyses long ago, only realized that they mean no actual penetration by any of the defendants' penises when she could no longer be sure any were applied to her body.

Surely.

The only bar Nifong should be allowed to practice at is where he's taking bartending classes for his new career.

[greccogirl]

76. And I'll be sure to avoid the bar he works at.

[lumberjack_jeff]

50. Welcome to DU. I don't think the term "victim" is appropriate. n/t

[babylonsister]

9. Be prepared; this development should take us through New Year's. nt

[Botany]

10. I hope the whole team goes and protests on the front lawns

of the civil rights groups, "women take back the night" organizations,
and the D.A. all of whom pushed this farce for their own goals and
ruined those athletes lives.

[NaturalHigh]

38. Can you imagine how badly they would be damned...

by the press and by many here on this message board if they did that? After all, that would be "blaming the victim" (a favorite phrase by many on DU who insisted these guys were guilty).

[TankLV]

49. Yep - the disgusting behavior of too many apologists for the blame the victum crowd here.

The "oh - women can never lie - all men are pigs - etc, etc,

I demand an apology from these assholes who were so quick to defend that lying scank who accused these INNOCENT men and put THEIR lives thru hell!!

Unfuckingforgivable behavior of the "GUILTY" crownd...

And what's worse, this creature has set back the rights of those who ARE raped and assualted and will make the climate more difficult for these future women to come forward and press charges.

Selfish opportunistic lying disgusting scank.

That's all I can say about this awful creature...

[saigon68]

65. Yikes

No mincing words here

Kicked

[ncrainbowgrrl]

11. Oh my...

It's going to be an interesting time here in NC.

Thanks for posting this, Triana.

[Triana]

30. Yea...

...should be interesting! I'm not surprised there isn't sufficient evidence for rape charges, but am surprised Nifong is dropping them - not that he had any choice - if the 'victim' can't decide if she was raped or not. Stuff just didn't add up enough for that accusation to stand, I'm afraid. Not that the boys or the stripper were innocent of everything but I don't think they were guilty of rape either - maybe some other stupid, abusive behavior but not that. Maybe the dancer was angry because they yelled racial epithets at her and decided to accuse them of rape. She had a right to be pissed about that but not to accuse of rape if it didn't happen, IMO. And Nifong apparently withheld DNA evidence - BAD DA - BAD! Anyway, I bet Nifong's pissed - he staked his re-election on this case. Heh. Will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

[greccogirl]

60. Pissed? Heck Nifong GOT reelected already so he has

nothing to lose except the laws he's broken and the lives he's messed up.

[Triana]

73. the laws he's broken...

...he oughtta be worried about that. Because it seemed pretty darned blatant, what he did withholding the DNA evidence that indicated the players were innocent. Baaaad DA.

[madmusic]

14. she couldn't "testify with certainty" that she was raped.

Then she can't "testify with certainty" about any of it. The whole case should be dismissed.

[jberryhill]

48. Nifong should get his witnesses from DU

since there are plenty of people here who can testify with certainty that she was raped.

[pnwmom]

85. LoL! n/t

[Yavin4]

12. Rape Shield Laws Need to be Re-Examined

I understand that we need these laws for children, but for adults, this laws should not exist. You should not be able to accuse someone of a crime and then hide behind the law whilst the accused lives are torn upside down. These laws create a loophole that allows for abuse.

[NashVegas]

15. Well-Intentioned, But Would Have Dire Consequences

No alleged rape victim has ever been personally responsible for the news media going crazy.

It would be best if victims were willing to go public, but it shouldn't be necessary.

I *would* say a news blackout would be the best solution, but sometimes, when a case gets some publicity, other victims come forward against the perp.

[Kelvin Mace]

27. This is not a case where the law

caused the problem. The DA caused the problem by trying the case in the media with selective leaks and suppression off evidence.

This is what happens when the the DA is an elected official, instead of a civil servant.

[laureloak]

16. Charges dropped in Duke rape case

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061222/ap_on_re_us/duke_lacrosse

[ileus]

17. now says she does not know...

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

18. Can't believe it's taken this long.

This whole charade was a prolonged campaign event for the DA.

[Lochloosa]

19. Now...who should be charged?

"It's highly coincidental," Cheshire said, that the charges are being dropped a week after the director of a private DNA testing lab acknowledged that he initially, with Nifong's knowledge, withheld from the defense test results showing none of the players' DNA was found on or in the accuser's body.

District Attorney Mike Nifong

[Ex Lion Tamer]

20. But other charges stand.

Weird. I would think there is no credibility left at this point.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

21. I would think so too.

Good luck finding a jury that would convict at this point.

[pnwmom]

34. And the other charges still carry a sentence of 40+ years.

And now that DNA evidence will be out of the picture, the remaining charges may be easier to "prove." At least, to a Durham jury.

[Kingshakabobo]

40. That's the goal of that scumbag Nifong.

If he can get a plea bargain for, say , simple assault the player's attorneys MIGHT want to take it. The case has more holes in it than the bush family's septums but 40 years is a BIG gamble when placed next to a slap on the wrist for assault............AND Nifong gets to save face.

Isn't it nice that a DA doesn't even have to hide his scummy maneuvering? He doesn't even have to be sneaky about it. Sometimes, I think the adversarial system sucks.

[robcon]

22. Nifong is the most likely defendant to face charges, IMO.

He conspired with the DNA lab to withhold exculpatory evidence from the defendants - in violation of NC law.

[regnaD kciN]

56. Not true...

The three players are far more likely to face charges (that could net them the exact same penalty as rape). After all, the only way they won't be put on trial is if Nifong decides to drop the remaining charges. It's his call.

[greccogirl]

61. They are calling for an investigation by the attorney general

and I believe they should take over this case and relieve Nifong - it's just a matter of time.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Leilani]

24. Why didn't you post the actual title of the story

rather than editing?

"Some charges dropped."

The story is that the RAPE charges were dropped.

[wakeme2008]

29. The OP did post that at first but things were changing

:shrug:

[spooky3]

33. The original title was from the news broadcast

not the Yahoo link. As breaking news, the anchor said simply "Charges dropped..." which implied that ALL charges, not just the rape count charges, had been dropped. When more news was reported later, I thought that "Some" was more accurate than "Charges dropped" and then the Yahoo story came out.

[Leilani]

62. Thanks for your reply!

[Don_1967]

35. Duke rape charges dropped!!!

Full Story :http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/more/12/22/ap.dukelacrosseurgent.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

[chimpymustgo]

36. Yeah...about 5-6 hours ago this hit the news.

nt

[Common Sense Party]

37. Hmmm...right before the holiday weekend. Maybe no one will

notice!

Nifong dropping the BS charges about 6 months too late.

[IndianaGreen]

42. This case is screaming for a special prosecutor

Nifong is a chubby version of Ken Starr.

[jcrew2001]

43. duke

I would expect Nifong and the stripper to be charged with misconduct and filing a false report.

I do feel badly for women who have been raped and assaulted, its terrible whenever this happens.

But for the Duke case, there just were too many witnesses including the second stripper that proved that no rape occured, the timeline for a rape never occurred, and that the Accuser was beyond plastered and wanted "marks to be put on her"

There was a racial encounter between the duke players and the strippers and this may have led to the false accusations.

Also, it seems that some of this may have been pre-meditated because the 2nd stripper got some other legal cases dropped by Nifong, and the Accuser seemed to be in financial difficulty and is pregnant with another baby. In addition, she had sex with other men prior to going to the party.

It was evident that nothing ever happened.

[NightOwwl]

44. It's about f'ing time.

Her story smelled to high heaven from day one. It shouldn't be too long before the remaining charges are dropped.

[SKKY]

46. Hear that flushing sound?

That's Nifong's political ambitions going down the toilet.

[atomicdawg38]

53. This just sucks...

I prey Seligman will prove he wasn't there but I'm worried for the other men. This is BULLSHIT!

[regnaD kciN]

57. You're right...

This has now changed from a rape case with evidence that suggests innocence to a sexual-assault case (with the same jail time) that merely becomes a "he said - she said" matter.

Beforehand, the matter of DNA testing would have been front and center, and would have been a powerful argument against a guilty verdict.

Now? No DNA testing needed, and none of the hanky-panky of it ever coming before the jury. Since the prosecution is no longer claiming vaginal penetration, all they need is for the accuser to claim that she was forced into oral or anal sex, with no physical evidence necessary. It all depends on how credible the accuser appears (with Nifong's coaching, of course), and whether the jury chosen is likely to believe the word of a "victim" by itself. If so, the three players are just as bad off.

:grr:

[greccogirl]

63. Anal sex with no "physical" evidence? Not likely!

This case is going nowhere. She is a trainwreck and they have no evidence. If it's "she said" she'll have to say and what a nightmare that will be.

[marshall]

66. There is still the DNA from the anal swab

They got DNA from five unidentified males from the anal swab--not a match to any of the forty something lacrosse players or the accuser's boyfriend. According to NC law rape is only when a penis penetrates a vagina, everything else is classified as sexual assault.

Since the sexual assault charges are not dropped, I would guess the DA is dropping vaginal penetration and going for the anal penetration. I'm confused as to how he will tie the DNA into it since it doesn't match ANY of the lacrosse players.

Maybe the dancer had another engagement after the lacrosse party and that's where the five unknown men came from.

[greccogirl]

67. I'm not confused. The DA is nuts. He has no evidence of

any charge at this point and you are correct NONE of the DNA matches any of the accused, not to mention the timelines are wrong, one of the guys wasn't even there by bank records and cab driver, so what on earth do they have? Nothing. They couldn't put her on the stand it would be a massive joke. If Nifong knows what is good for him he'll drop it. He was only after election all along - I believe this is just part of his plan to push as far as he can and then drop it so he can save face.
He should be jail.

Heck even the lineup was illegal!! All Duke players - makes that real tough to pick out someone who isn't, doesn't it?

[JackORoses]

81. you are so well-informed on this case,

please let us in on your secret source that is providing you with all the case evidence.
oh wait, you don't really have one.
You only know what has been made public.

Luckily, your opinion is no substitute for a court of law.

[pnwmom]

88. You could be informed, too, if you chose.

There are a plethora of primary documents easily accessible on the web, i.e., police reports, witness reports, and filed court documents. The latest was a 42 page document from the defense, fully cited to the thousands of pages of evidence the prosecutor provided them. Yes, the information available was provided through court filings (primarily by the defense) but you don't have to read all 1800 pages (or however many it is now) to know that there are huge enough holes in the prosecution's case to drive several 747's through.

For example: the accuser herself gave many different, conflicting statements. Her statements conflicted with those of the other dancer. (When Ed Bradley read to the second dancer the accuser's statement about how the students supposedly pulled the dancers apart from each other, she flatly denied it.) The accuser had at least three sittings with photos of Duke students, and went from being unable to choose any students, to choosing 4. (Only three were indicted, however.) The procedures for the line-ups didn't follow North Carolina law, since no filler pictures were used. The accuser said that she was vaginally raped, but when the full DNA evidence came out, she said she wasn't sure that she'd been raped. She also said that she had no consensual sex for a week, but her body and underwear contained the DNA of five unknown men. She also had a history of making a gang rape claim, but dropping the charges.

All of this is undisputed.

[greccogirl]

91. This case should NEVER see a court of law. It is a joke,

and I believe the district attorney might end up jobless and/or in jail.

[pnwmom]

71. From what I understand, she's saying that she doesn't

know what was used to penetrate her from behind. It could have been an "object."

[greccogirl]

77. It would be very hard for me to believe that an object

was used and there is still no DNA of any kind found. No blood, no skin, no dander, no nothing.

[JackORoses]

82. I guess if you were sodomized with a mop handle,

you wouldn't consider it sexual assault, either.
You'd just call it a good ol' time with some of Duke's finest.

[onenote]

90. and you have a basis for suggesting that this happened?

Please provide a link.

Put up or shut up.

[greccogirl]

92. Your answer is nonsensical and silly. The facts of this case

are plain. I do not believe for one minute that ANY sexual assault took place, with a human penis, a broomhandle, or a figment of anyone's immagination. Give it up. It didn't happen. There is not one credible shred of evidence that it did!

[pnwmom]

95. You think any woman could mistake a mop handle

for a human body part? No way. No how.

And on top of that never having been her testimony, there is no physical evidence that a mop handle could have been used. She would have had obvious injuries if that were the case.

[pnwmom]

94. And I read an opinion by a sexual assault nurse

that when an object is used, there is always a lot more damage to tissue. -- which she didn't have.

[fishnfla]

64. I believe the crime of rape in the state of NC

describes it as any penetration by a male, not just vaginal, so they cant change the claim (again?) to the other ways. Thats why the rape charges were dropped, there was no physical evidence of that occurring

[pnwmom]

72. No, in N.C. the crime of rape is only vaginal penetration by a penis.

Anything else is sexual assault. First degree sexual assault carries the same penalty, however.

[fishnfla]

75. I stand corrected.

sorry for the error and thanks for the clarification

[pnwmom]

89. I was surprised, too.

Wouldn't have believed it myself if the N.C. statutes weren't on the web!

[jcrew2001]

70. strippers

I've been to a few strip clubs and private bachelor parties and there usually is a lot of touching and feeling up by the strippers onto the guys, so I hope that they're not going to say that the dancing and stripping was part of the sexual assault.

[JacksonWest]

79. She wasn't a stripper-she was an escort.

She was a prostitute. Escort service equals prostitution. Big difference.

[Nye Bevan]

83. When I first heard about this case

My reaction was that these were probably a bunch of privileged, rich jocks with a sense of entitlement and an expectation that daddy's big bucks would get them off the hook for whatever they did.

But the more I have heard about this case the more convinced I am that not only are these guys innocent, but that Nifong is an out of control, cynical, pandering piece of scum who belongs in jail himself.

For lots more info see this blog:

http://durhamwonderland.blogspot.com/

[marshall]

93. What about Nifong's other cases?

Lost in all the discussion of whether these boys were railroaded and the class issues there are the countless other cases Nifong has prosecuted. How many cases did he conceal exculpatory evidence in, only those defendants did not have the money to hire lawyers or the eye of the 24 hour media? There may be dozens of innocent men and women in jail because of Nifong's shenanigans.

[pnwmom]

96. Yes, that's a good source of information.

[pnwmom]

86. There must have been TWO separate attacks then

that Nifong should be investigating.

1. The supposed attack by the Duke players, which left no DNA and didn't involve rape (just kidnapping and assault).
2. The attack by the unnamed FIVE DNA contributers -- since the accuser insists that she had had no consensual sex for a week!

That is one unlucky woman.

:sarcasm: