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Did American fire on Iraqis for sport? (MSNBC)

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laststeamtrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:11 PM
Original message
Did American fire on Iraqis for sport? (MSNBC)
Did American fire on Iraqis for sport?
U.S. security contractors allege their supervisor was ‘out of control’
By Lisa Myers, Aram Roston and the NBC News Investigative Unit
Updated: 8:17 a.m. PT Dec 22, 2006

WASHINGTON - Shane Schmidt was a U.S. Marine for seven years, the leader of a sniper unit. Chuck Shepard spent seven years in the U.S. Army. After leaving the military, each found his way into the legions of heavily armed private security contractors working in Iraq.

The two were working together on July 8, 2006, when they claim they witnessed what they believe was a crime. They say another American fired, unprovoked, into two Iraqi civilian vehicles. They say it started during a mission to Baghdad International Airport, when their supervisor, who was leaving Iraq the next day and was in the vehicle with them, made a troubling remark.

"He'd made a comment that he was going to kill somebody today," says Schmidt. "Kill someone."

The two men say they thought he was joking.

<snip>

Shepard says the shift leader "immediately turns, opens the door, and fires seven to eight rounds into a taxi cab that we're overtaking, that we're passing."

The men claim the taxi rolled off the road, but that they are not sure if anyone was killed.

"I know that he shot at innocent civilians," says Shepard. "I know that we're trained very well on our marksmanship."

<more>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16316248/
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Two interviews of these contractors were aired yesterday,
on MSNBC and NBC. I thought the whistleblowers were totally credible.
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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Now the "mercs" have cred at the DU. I guess there is a snowball fight happening
in hell.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. not all contractors are of the same cloth.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. A Rose Petal Parade for mercenaries
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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Really? Did you notice the reply you got?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Did you read the article or see the story? Two 'mercs' turned in one
'merc' because he was killing people needlessly. Shouldn't the ones who turned their boss in get some props for doing so?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Not for the unhinged idiot fringe which imagines you really ARE free to
act out your vilest whims if you're the one invading a "furreign" country.

Who else would advocate absolute evil against helpless strangers! With them, there's ALWAYS an excuse to consider harming someone. Makes them feel far more "noticed" than they are.

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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. The truth is the truth, no matter the source.
If you don't believe them, then you must also believe that the Iraqi civilians were not fired upon as "sport."
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I heard the nbc segment. Sounded truthful to me.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
6. Some Americans fired at Vietnamese for sport
and now we find ourselves in a similar quagmire, with similar war crimes and callousness for human life.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Yes I was going to say this happens in every war
Doesn't make it right, but it is one more reason to oppose all wars.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-22-06 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's naive to think some are NOT doing that.
NT!

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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Exactly.
Marines' Haditha Massacre: Murderers, and Casualties, of War

by Pierre Tristam

The prevailing atrocity of war, of course, can never be the individual acts of soldiers in the field, no matter how savage the acts, no matter how amoral the soldiers. The prevailing atrocity is in the nature of the soldiers’ training, in the unquestioning obedience to the chain of command, in the belonging to an organism maniacal in its single aim. It’s in the nature of military machinery designed to dehumanize the enemy to more easily sedate the soldier’s conscience as he goes about committing mass murder. It’s in the nature of ethical and semantic distortions going back to Hector and Achilles as the language and “rules” of war are invoked to justify mass murders, to create artificial boundaries between military and civilian targets that end up branding the massacre of half a village in an air raid as “collateral damage” but an identical massacre by foot soldiers a criminal act punishable by… death. It’s in the nature of wars that place young, immature, pimply men in the most savage situations they will ever face, and expect them, after al the training they’ve received to be savages — to kill in the most efficient, self-preserving, unit-preserving and unthinking way possible — to rise above the savagery. Rise as they may, there is always the overriding factor of war’s character, whether it is a “just” war or not (to note that other obtuse demarcation). “I see how peoples are set again set one another, and in silence, unknowingly, foolishly, obediently, innocently slay one another,” Erich Maria Remarque’s hero says toward the end of All Quiet on the Western Front, words bridging the only truth from one pitiful war to another.

SNIP

There is no question that the murder of innocent people, whether fighting-age men, women or children, is a culpable act in any circumstance. There is no question that the Haditha massacre is no different than cold-blooded killing. It was cold-blooded killing. But the Haditha massacre is barely a symbol of the war that produced it, and the Marines who committed the murders merely bit players in the comedy of duplicity in whose second act they will now be ordered to star, so the rest of us moralisers, the Marine Corps above all, can feel better about God, country and conscience. So the Marine Corps can cleanse itself of the inhuman stain that happens, in this rare case, to make a public appearance, but that happens to be what the Marine Corps (and the military, any military) is designed to inflict first, foremost and always. The Marine Corps, the nation’s elite killing machine where uniforms, ritual, mottos and Jack Nicholsonisms à-la-you-can’t-handle-the-truth do such a seductive job of obscuring the reality of what, in the end, is nothing more than a honed and polished bringer of savagery at its consummate best. The Marine Corps that is just now playing the atrocious comedy of seeming so righteous in the severity of the charges it is meting out. The Marine Corps that every day has its boots’ imprint on Iraqi doors and Iraqi necks, dishonoring the very words its stands for. Semper fidelis, yes, but to what? You can start with prettily uniformed savagery and make your way up the chain of command, all the way up to the man who so lovingly, lustily, stupidly calls himself the Commander in Chief.

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan remind, again and again—in the barbarism of soldiers torturing Iraqis at Abu Ghraib, Kandahar and other prisons, in the murder of civilians, the blind and excusing eye of the military, the rank justifications of a nation of armchair bloodbathers back home—of the famous story Daniel Lang reported in The New Yorker in October 1969 that eventually became “Casualties of War,” the movie starring Michael J. Fox and Sean Penn. Penn plays the role of Vorst, a platoon leader, Fox of Private First Class Sven Eriksson, a member of the platoon. The platoon goes off on a long patrol. Vorst orders the capture of a Vietnamese teenager so the platoon can enjoy enslaving and raping her along the way. Which the platoon does, with the exception of Eriksson. The girl is finally murdered. Eriksson reports the crime. The military tried repeatedly to warn him off the case. He persevered. The case was finally investigated. But the men, Vorst among them, got off, as they usually, always do. Isn’t William Calley, the ringleader of the My Lai massacre, selling jewelry somewhere in Georgia?

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/4149
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ama Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. some even made a video
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
12. "How can you shoot women and children...?"
- - - "Easy... you just don't lead them as much."

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fob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. History is repeating...(I think the new version would have Charlie replaced
with Haji, the new "improved" nickname to dehumanize "our enemy")

(The Clash)

CHORUS
Charlie don't surf and we think he should
Charlie don't surf and you know that it ain't no good
Charlie don't surf for his hamburger Momma
Charlie's gonna be a napalm star

Everybody wants to rule the world
Must be something we get from birth
One truth is we never learn
Satellites will make space burn

We've been told to keep the strangers out
We don't like them starting to hang about
We don't like them over town
Across the world we're gonna blow them down

CHORUS

The reign of the super powers must be over
So many armies can't free the earth
Soon the rock will roll over
Africa is choking on their Coca Cola

It's a one a way street in a one horse town
One way people starting to brag around
You can laugh, put them down
These one way people gonna mow us down

CHORUS

Charlie don't surf he'll never learn
Charlie don't surf though he's got a gun
Charlie don't surf think that he should
Charlie don't surf we really think he should
Charlie don't surf

Charlie don't surf and we think he should
Charlie don't surf and you know that it ain't no good
Charlie don't surf for his hamburger Momma
Charlie don't surf

Charlie don’t surf
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JawJaw Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
13. Line 'em up......
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pfitz59 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-23-06 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
18. Remember "sniper alley"?
http://maps.pomocnik.com/sniper-alley-sarajevo-bosnia-and-herzegovina/

"According to data gathered in 1995, the snipers wounded 1,030 persons and killed 225, 60 of whom were children."

My guide in Sarajevo said wealthy Russians paid the Serbs big money to take shots at human beings. The Bahgdad story is no surprise. Where there is no "rule of law" the basest human instincts come forth. We lost the Rule of Law the minute Fat Tony intervened in the 2000 election! You can lay these atrocities squarely at his feet!
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