GOP Says Rudy to Run Against Hillary in 2006

[Red State Rebel]

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36246

Discuss.....

[HawkerHurricane]

1. Good for him!

Now he can have his arse handed to him like it would have been in 2000 if he hadn't chickened out.

[rumguy]

2. bring it on!

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fridays Child]

4. He'd better watch it...

...because every fr**per knows that Hillary has the power to make him have an affair and get cancer.

:eyes:

[Toucano]

16. That's so funny, Mary Pat

Thanks a lot.

[bearfartinthewoods]

57. getting cancer is funny?

wow...i'm glad it's not on my karma..

[Cooley Hurd]

5. BS Alert - it's WorldNetDaily...

He might run against Hillary, but until I hear it from Giuliani I'll reserve judgement...

[RedSock]

7. he'll be busy

won't that totalitarian twit be busy screwing around on his latest wife behind her back?

[Orrin_73]

55. You mean WorldNutDaily

deanforamerica.com
clark04.com
kucinich.us
sharpton2004.org

Tom DeLay:"I challenge anyone to live on my salary" <$158,000 a year>

[IndianaGreen]

6. It should be an exciting race!

If Rudy thought it was bad to get reamed by his ex-wife, wait until he gets a couple of extra anuses from Hillary.

[Gloria]

8. What happened to all that money, Rudy, that you collected after 911?

Let's see, all your buddies on the payroll....that's a scandal that should be dug up and used against him IN SPADES!!!!

By the way, this was speculated MONTHS AGO ---when he was down in Mexico City, giving the advice on crime or whatever, he was asked about this and he didn't rule it out at all...in fact, he did say he was considering it...

[Red State Rebel]

20. You're right, I'd forgotten about that episode....

[NewJerseyDem]

9. Many said he would run for governor

I honestly don't think that anyone knows. Most rumors had indicated that he would run for governor in 2006 instead of Senate. He would probably prefer to be governor because then he would be in power instead of having to work with others. Also, I think that Hillary Clinton is a tougher opponent than Eliot Spitzer who is a pretty good opponent anyway.

[Eric J in MN]

11. Won't Pataki run again for NY governor? nt

nt

[Frodo]

12. He's term limited.

eom.

[brooklynite]

24. No He's not

There are no term limits for state level officials (Gove, Lt Gov, State COntroller, Attorney General, State Senate and State Assembly). That said, there's a growing belief he wants to check out early.

[brooklynite]

25. Still Wishful Thinking on the part of the GOP...

...who are desparate for anything they think indicates they can get Hillary. I see no sign of Rudy's likelihood to go for a Senate seat where he'd be the Junior Senator below Schumer, and be 1-in-100 in a setting where all he can do is make speeches. Much more reasonable to try for Albany in 2006 in what will likely be an open race.

[trogdor]

13. I'll take that bet.

before I believe he still wants Hillary's job. I think they need somebody who can take in Eliot Spitzer in '06. My guess is, Pataki will take on Hillary while Rudy goes for the statehouse.

[NewJerseyDem]

32. Pataki has been governor since 1995

His popularity has fallen considerably this year and he would probably lose to Spitzer or Schumer if he did run again.

[SadEagle]

18. Hillary is not stronger than Spitzer.

IIRC, Spitzer is the most well-liked politician in the state.

[NewJerseyDem]

40. True

However, I don't think that there is as much partisan and passionate support for Spitzer as there is for Clinton. Many democrats that like Giuliani might vote for him over Spitzer even if they like Spitzer, however democrats are probably more loyal to Clinton.

I would guess that a Clinton v. Giuliani matchup would be a partisan battle that helps Clinton in a democratic state like New York. However, a Giuliani v. Spitzer matchup would be more a battle between two highly respected politicans where Giuliani would probably have the edge.

Also, Clinton is a very experienced politician who has an infinite amount of national connections and therefore money to bring in. Spitzer has only run for Attorney General in New York. He hasn't been in the White House, yet.

[Manix]

10. Hillary has become to strong for him to have any chance.

nt

[ParticipatoryDem]

14. Could be

Didn't Rudy get booed off the stage in NYC? What do New Yorkers think of him?

[oasis]

33. New York women hate "jackal" Guilliani and all similar hypocritcal scum.

[buycitgo]

15. how can he run for President in 06?

sorry....had to say that

[dolstein]

17. Frankly, this would surprise me

Rudy just doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would be happy in the U.S. Senate. I could imagine him running for governor. I could imagine him serving in a cabinet position. But I can't see him joining the senator's club.

[alarimer]

28. my mom

Nominally a Dem LOVES Giuliani for some reason. So there are probably a lot of votes for him if he runs for either senator or governor. Votes from people like my mother that don't bother to confuse themselves with the facts first. She just likes him because "he did such a good job for NYC". I think he could probably be elected Governor in an open field but I don't know about him running against an incumbent Senator.

[pinto]

19. that'd be a good race in a great state with national overtones..n/t

[oasis]

35. Hillary would get tons of out of state $$$. C'mon Jackal Guiliani.

[ringmastery]

21. If the democrats lose in 04

Why should Hillary run for re-election?

Not running would allow her all of 2007 to prepare for her run for the White House in 2008, without the distractions of the senate.

Also, if she ran for the senate in 2006 and lost, her presidential hopes are pretty much finished.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

22. He was going to run for Governor origionally!

.

[markses]

23. Rudy will get his ass handed to him if he does

Since he will certainly lose Upstate (even the Republicans Upstate have warmed to Hillary) and will lose on party line votes in the City and suburbs. It would end up 58-42 or some such, just like Lazio the Lozzzzzzzzzzzzer.

Puh-leez.

[ParticipatoryDem]

34. Hillary will pound Rudy in upstate NY

The upstaters have become very liberal and finally accept that NYC deserves the lions share of tax revenues since most of the population lives there. That and Hillary's strong support for gun control will help her sweep the upstate by storm and stroll into the White House in 2008.

[oneighty]

36. Surely you

are joking?

No? Perhaps just kidding, I think.

180

Ithaca NY pretty close to me.

180

[ParticipatoryDem]

37. Why not ask the poster above me that claimed Hillary would kick Rudy ass?

Why not go right to the source of the claim?

[oneighty]

38. No!

I guess your post to be tongue in cheek. Yes?

180

[ParticipatoryDem]

39. As tongue in cheek as the original poster

Hillary sweeps upstate by storm. I guess it could happen. It didn't happen last time but people do change over time.

[oneighty]

41. Taxes

Where I live it has always been claimed that upstate taxes supported NY City. Every year local pubs running for office made that claim. It is an argument I have not heard in years. I was surprised to hear it again. That is all. Of course supporting "Gun Control" is sure death to a politico in rural New york state where there are more cowboy gunslingers per square foot than in all of Crawford Texas.

180

[ParticipatoryDem]

42. It's what I'm hearing from family in upstate NY.

Locals talk you know. They can go either way depending on the politics at the time of an election.

[Retrograde]

54. Common belief upstate

My family, who all live in the Buffalo area, all believe that they're supporting NYC either directly through their taxes or indirectly by having more money spent in NYC that they think they should have gotten. There's a rest-of-us versus NYC/environs rivalry that makes Northern vs Southern California look downright cordial.

Hillary Clinton actually makes an effort to pay attention to the rest of the state. My sisters - both active Dems - claim she spent more time in Erie county in her first six months as senator than Moynihan did in his entire tenure. So, upstate people may not like her or her politics, but they should be able to at least recognize her.

linda

[oneighty]

56. Many Western New Yorkers

Are absolutely positive their taxes support New York City especially the welfare people of that city.

Me, West of Buffalo.

180

[markses]

43. Oh, very skillful with the sarcasm line

Or not. Whatever.

I'm well aware of the generally conservative demographics of Upstate New york. The point here is that Rudy himself represented the main "Five Boros" uber alles line for the very people you claim resent sending their tax revenues to NYC - and for years at that. And while the real right wing nutcases will continue to vote anti-Clinton til hell freezes over, Senator Clinton has made significant inroads among upstate moderates (yes, dear, people do change), and certainly did not lose even upstate as badly as expected last time around. Those two factors (general resentment at having Rudy Brooklyn thrust on them, and growing respect for Senator Clinton's statewide involvment - she is much less downstate oriented than D'Amato, Moynihan and even Schumer, by the way) should throw Upstate to Senator Clinton, or at least bring her close enough to wrap it up downstate - despite your feeble sarcasms.

I also noticed your sarcasm regarding Senator Clinton being booed off stage. You asked New Yorkers how they feel. As a lifelong New Yorker - mostly in NYC, but also having spent a good deal of time in several different regions of Upstate NY - including capital region and southern tier, I would say that the booing of Senator Clinton was disgraceful, and that many of those same people surely now realize that it was Rudy and his absurd financial schemes that really hurt them economically and policy-wise. In fact, a few told me as much as we protested the closure of a fire house together in Brooklyn. Know much about that? We've seen the mess Rudy made in his closing years of office hit us from all directions. Or are you promoting Rudy from some other part of the country because you are a Clinton-hater by preference? Just wondering.

[ParticipatoryDem]

44. I'm not promoting Rudy at all.

Nor am I a "Clinton-hater" as you say. The original poster made an unrealistic claim that the upstaters would give Hillary the nod by kicking Rudy's ass. I don't buy that claim. Please keep your personal accusations and unfounded claims against me to yourself.

[Sterling]

46. People are dreaming if they think Hill is popular

She is hated even in Downtown NYC. The right hates her and now so does a great deal of the left. People in NYC long for the days of Rudy (not me). It is a fact you better get used to.


When shrub was reading to kids about a goat Rudy was wrapping up a very successful stint in NYC by rising to the event and acting like the leader we all wanted that day.


Never mind all the evil shit he did he made the trains run on time the streets safe and rents high. NYers LOVE him right or wrong. Hillary is DOA if she runs against him in NY period. That may go double for anywhere else.

[markses]

49. Respectfully, I think you're wrong

I hang out at a bar on 5th Avenue in Brooklyn. It is hardly a "Mumia-type" establishment, and in fact serves to all kinds of folks, including a good number of firefighters when they aren't at Smokey's further south. Before 9/11 there was a sign behind the bar that said Fuck You, Rudy. It was not taken down after 9/11, and now says Fuck you Harder, Rudy. None of the firefighters or anyone else complained. In fact, most of the firefighters I've talked to (both at that bar and friends I grew up with) voice a good deal of resentment about Giuliani - noting that he practically broke their union with his manipulation of the command. Some folks aren't taken in by the media glitz, cuz they know their capacity to provide for their families (and even to live in the neighborhoods where they grew up) was hurt by Rudy's cynicism and especially by his policies. Giuliani is especially popular among certain consituencies in Manhattan, and the traditional race-bait-able constituencies in the outer boros - but most of the folks I associate with were extremely disturbed by Rudy's clampdown tactics and divisive politics. Voters.

Rudy will lose in NYC. Not by 1,000,000 votes like Lazio, but by 600,000. Mark that. BTW, are you FROM Oklahoma? I'm from Brooklyn myself.

[markses]

47. I'm the original poster

And I just explained my claim.

Still waiting for you to explain your counterclaim in anything other than overdone sarcasm.

On Edit:
Just some extra information for you. Check out the results from the Schumer D'amato 1998 race:

http://www.elections.state.ny.us/elections/1998/USSENWEB.pdf

Compared with the Clinton-Lazio 2000 race:

http://www.cbsnews.com/campaign2000results/county/county_nyos-0.html

or, better:

http://www.elections.state.ny.us/elections/2000/wussen2000.pdf

(Are there all sorts of problems comparing either D'amato or certainly Lazio w/ Rudy? Sure, but the point is that Clinton did in many counties better than Schumer upstate.)

Outside NYC:

Lazio - 2,367,270
Clinton - 2,142,361

That's just 224,909 votes out of more than 4.5 million cast (for all outside NYC). I think that's pretty friggin good for a carpet-bagger Dem against a decidedly downstate Republican. You can make that up in a few precincts in Kings County - against Rudy, too.

[markses]

52. Let's work the numbers even more

In the 2000 election, as the previous post claims, Senator Clinton lost "Outside NYC" by 224909 votes. Let's now subtract Nassau, Suffolk and Westchester Counties. Here were the results in those counties:

Nassau:
Lazio - 312252
Clinton - 258868

Suffolk:
Lazio - 326228
Clinton - 229177

Westchester:
Lazio - 174533
Clinton - 184508

Totals:
Lazio - 813013
Clinton - 672553
Total Lazio/ Clinton Votes Downstate (Outside NYC): 1,485,566
Difference: 140460 (+Lazio)

Now, given the data we saw in the previous post, to wit:
Total Lazio/Clinton votes (Outside NYC): 4,509,631
Difference: 224909 (+Lazio)

We can subtract these counties to determine "Upstate" New York. Lazio "won" Upstate New York by 84449 votes out of a total of 3,024,065 votes cast (Lazio or Clinton). Explain again how Clinton, who was a first-time candidate, a "carpet-bagger," and the target of endless smears for years, will get trounced in Upstate now that she has an extensive record in the Senate? And against Mr. Downstate himself, Rudy Giuliani? Please.

[CBHagman]

26. It's WorldNet Daily. Slow down, everybody.

I don't need a grain of salt for whatever appears at WorldNet Daily, I need the entire box of Morton's. Simmer down and let's see if this is really a story or just chatter.

Besides, 2006 is farther away than you might think. Many, many things could happen.

[bspence]

27. I don't believe this

Apparently WND isn't to be trusted, but besides that, Rudy's been sick, and that's why he dropped out of politics.

If it's true, and it's hard to say this, but Hilary would lose big time. Rudy's pretty well loved after 9-11. He actually benefitted from it more than Bush did.

Hilary's got too much baggage, and it's also why she'll never run for president. In a 'D' state, she'll win, but on the national scale, it'll never work.

[CBHagman]

30. It's amazing that open adultery and police brutality...

...aren't considered "baggage" in the GOP or in politics in general, but by golly, people are ready to deem HRC as unelectable because A) a bunch of greedy, power-mad men are projecting all their own vices onto her and persuade others to do the same and B) there was that problem with the White House Travel Office. Many people forget how messy Giuliani's tenure was, to say nothing of his shortcomings as a politician.

It's also possible that the short attention spans in this country will benefit one candidate or another come 2006. We can simply stay tuned.

[Sterling]

48. Rudy is bullet proof

don't fully understand it myself but it is a fact. NYers right and left generally give him props. Only the most ardent left wing free mumia types hate him. I hate him but respect him more than most pukes. I sure won't get my hopes up for HC if she is unfortunate enough to face him here in NY.

[GRClarkesq]

29. The party probably favors a Rudy run since

he could compete in the money game with Hillary. Rudy being a so-called "star" of the party, he could draw money from outside NY.

[demgrrrll]

31. I don't have the energy for this right now. My focus in on the cretin

that is squatting in the WH. Who knows what the world will
look like in 2006.

[Sterling]

45. And he will win.

I know I won't be stumping for Hillary that much is for sure.

[oasis]

50. kick for closer inspection.

[tritsofme]

51. Rudy walks a very fine line with the GOP base

he has come against PBA ban and supports civil unions I believe.

He could do well in a state like NY but he will never be president or VP under the GOP banner.

[Deesh]

53. Rudy, George & Dubya

Say Cheney tires of running the world from undisclosed holes around DC and leaves the GOP ticket.

Bush selects Pataki. Pataki knows Spitzer will beat him anyway, and the VP spot is a cushy job. The GOP convention is in New York and with Pataki on the ticket they make a strong bid for NY's electoral votes.

Giuliana goes for the statehouse. He'd be lost in the Senate.