We got him: Kurds say they caught Saddam (new story)

[BuckeFushe]

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/21/1071941612613.html

Washington's claims that brilliant US intelligence work led to the capture of Saddam Hussein are being challenged by reports sourced in Iraq's Kurdish media claiming that its militia set the circumstances in which the US merely had to go to a farm identified by the Kurds to bag the fugitive former president.

The first media account of the December 13 arrest was aired by a Tehran-based news agency. American forces took Saddam into custody around 8.30pm local time, but sat on the news until 3pm the next day.

However, in the early hours of Sunday, a Kurdish language wire service reported explicitly: "Saddam Hussein was captured by the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. A special intelligence unit led by Qusrat Rasul Ali, a high-ranking member of the PUK, found Saddam Hussein in the city of Tikrit, his birthplace.

"Qusrat's team was accompanied by a group of US soldiers. Further details of the capture will emerge during the day; but the global Kurdish party is about to begin!"


<snip>
Little attention was paid to a line in Pentagon briefings that some of the Kurdish militia might have been in on what was described as a "joint operation"; or to a statement by Ahmed Chalabi, head of the Iraq National Congress, which said that Qusrat and his PUK forces had provided vital information and more.
<snip>


Looks like the Reich-wing propaganda machine busted a gear.

[The Backlash Cometh]

1. Another Private Lynch PR job?

If I were to write a story of this war's greatest moments, I would name it: "Bush's War: Stolen Glory."

[0007]

2. Another raw 'raw, God Bless junior story going up in smoke.

Amazing how quiet it is, now that the Kurds are jumping up and down and wanting the U.S. to honor their promise.

[NJCher]

3. Someone here figured as much

I remember the post but I don't remember the poster. The person admonished to this effect, "Let's just wait for awhile for the real story to come out."

Sure enough.

Jessica Lynch, here we go again.



Cher

[pinniped]

4. Kurds better watch out...

They might soon end up as "enemy combatants" or become victims of "collateral damage".

Pres. ASSHOLE doesn't like to be challenged.

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. Without cooperative Kurds

the US can not control the northern oil fields. Besides without the Kurds most of the 'deck of cards' would still be on the loose. Keep in mind that the same Kurds who stuck W with Saddam alive are the same ones who led us to Uday and Qusay. I think we have a love/hate relationship developing here and W is finding out that he can't live without the Kurds.

[Atman]

5. 600 troops surround the farm...

and no one thought to bring a video camera?

I've seen that poor woman getting her door kicked in a hundred times this morning...where is the video of this daring raid on Saddam's hole?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[0007]

8. No jyoti for the soul

I also found this an interesting point.

[MrPrax]

6. Thumps up to DU

First place I read this theory was in LBN...
At the time I thought the poster was just being cynical...
But it turns out that the poster that dug out the IRNA/Tehran-based story announcing the capture the night before was...CORRECT!!

All the brilliant people use DU...
:toast:

(With smart people like this, who needs Intelligence analysts)

[GRocky]

9. Now watch as the Kurds...

don't get what they were promised and wage war against the USA.

[Mika]

11. Yep. Again

How does it go?.. "fool me once.. "

[DS1]

10. Then the Kurds are the dumbest people in the history of the world

C'mon, if you want credit for something, you don't leave it lying in the open for the other guy to find. Please.

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. Sorry, that honor will eventually go to Bu$hCo

In the meantime they did make sure that they would get credit for it by running to the Iranians with all the gory details about the real capture. That is why the news came out of Iran on Sunday morning and not the Pentagon.

[DS1]

18. Ooh, the Iranians. They should have used the BBC

if they wanted anyone in the western world to even begin to believe it, besides DU of course.

[spinbaby]

12. Early reports said it was the Kurds

If I remember correctly, the earliest reports of Saddam's capture last Sunday included mention of the Kurds and some seemed to feel that the Kurds caught him. That all evaporated a couple of hours later when the capture became an heroic American adventure.

[bushisanidiot]

13. Global Kurdish Party? hmmm... ok?

i don't believe a damned thing i see or hear anymore in the media. unless saddam hussein is tried in open international court then i won't believe that we've even got him in custody.

[King Coal]

14. Seems to me, it's another one of Cheney's

Texas-style bird hunts.

[ConcernedCanuk]

15. I suspect the BFEE reneged on another "promise" (how shocking eh ? ?)

. . The Iraqi "Freedom" and prosperity is a joke, they are NOT free, even women and children are getting dragged from their homes. At least Saddam usually restricted himself to opponents ?

. . Electricity, Water, and heck - even GASOLINE is in short supply since the BFEE and their invisible "coalition" "freed" the Iraqis.

. . American History is clear, from the first treaty signed with natives on the North American continent. America breaks it's promises ! Thisw includes deals with the Mafia during WW2, Saddam during the Iranian uprising, etc. etc., but when no longer "convenient" - oops, well we'll have to ignore/rescind THAT treaty - and that INCLUDES UNSIGNING their commitment to the ICC (International Criminal court)

I imagine the Kurds would have been rather quiet about the affair if the BFEE had followed through whatever THAT "promise" was.

I suspect we will find out what that was in the future, to be "updated" on page 42 of some paper.

[head_banger]

24. To me that implies

"...are getting dragged from their homes. At least Saddam usually restricted himself to opponents ?"


I hope you are not suggesting that the people of Iraq DO NOT oppose our presence there...because they DO OPPOSE our presence...period.

What I mean is Saddam treated opponents in this way. "at least Saddam restricted himself to opponents" means the people of Iraq must SUPPORT us...which is clear they do not support us. We are no better than Saddam in the way Bush is going about this. Saddam went after opponents and so are we. THIS MADNESS MUST END!!!

[head_banger]

17. Bush's Military PLANTED......

They planted (or just plain old lied about):

Saddam having $750,000 in cash (because we caused so much hardship to the people of Iraq, the Kurds would have snatched the money right away from Saddam).

The Weapons on Saddam because the Kurds would have disarmed him if Saddam had guns on him when the Kurds caught him

The body guards who were caught with Saddam...I just don't believe it.

They also lied about a briefcase full of "intelligence"...BS

Also, I bet the Kurds are being denied the reward for his capture. I can't wait till they start demanding payment! Bush will look like a bigger idiot!

James Hickey said on FNC this morning that the Kurds had "nothing" to do with it. LIES LIES LIES!

[GainesT1958]

42. I did wonder where Saddam would have gotten his hands on...

$750,000 worth of NEWLY-PRINTED U.S. bills! The possibilities on THAT one are almost endless!:eyes:

B-)

[Habibi]

19. Not in this country, apparently

Has any US media outlet broken this story?

[ConcernedCanuk]

22. Has any US media outlet broken this story? - Does it Matter ???

. . The US Media has almost NO International credibility the way I see it.

. . The US Media is just for the Murikan sheeple's consumption, and it seems as if TOO MANY of them are swallowing line, hook and sinker.

. . Just flipping from my Canadian News to the Murikan news is enough to make one wonder if we are living in different worlds!

. . and we are, I'm afraid.

Too many Americans have a misguided faith in their media to tell them the truth.

"CNN: the most trusted scource of news" (faux ain't worth comment)

Ya, right!

[DoYouEverWonder]

23. Yahoo and Bloomberg

had the story yesterday.

[Habibi]

34. Yes

it *would* matter if the US media picked up this story and ran with it. It would give those of us living here some ammunition with which to refute the gloating war-whores. Not much, but some.

[ramapo]

20. Missing!

Not a word of this in today's paper. Plenty about the latest terra-alert though.

[KharmaTrain]

21. Remember Iran/Contra Started In A Lebanese Newspaper

It was initially debunked by the Pro-Raygun media, but quickly checked up by the then "real" American media, that led to the unraveling of the Iran Arms for Hostage deal.

I kinda see a parallel here if this is the case...especially if the Kurds bagged Saddam a while ago and are where holding him while waiting for a deal/pay-off from *.

Right now the media's riding with the "feel good" flag-waiving of capturing the "Ace Of Spades". But soon we'll start hearing of the daily dead again and then the questions will be about what good was capturing Saddam and then the circumstances surrounding his capture.

Yep...this could be Jessica Lynch times 10...but what American media outlet has the guts to do this? My bets: Frontline!

[manic]

25. More info and linkage

There's more information & links (and some flamebait here and there) over at this thread at MetaFilter:
http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/30350

Also, I blogged this article early last week...

Indications Saddam Was Not in Hiding But a Captive:
http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=743

Finally, before we break out the tinfoil party hats, The Guardian attempts to explain how the US made good with DNA evidence so quickly:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/thisweek/story/0,12977,1108859,00.html

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[xchrom]

28. they didn't leave him there

you can just about bet they brought our troops there.
there were kurdish soldiers there with ours -- why?
because they knew where he was and we didn't.
beyond that it is certainly easy to speculate that saddam was being held for ''just the right moment''.

[DS1]

31. I can't believe that post was deleted

:eyes:

[54anickel]

27. The Kurds are not stupid, and they have bee fooled by the US in the past

They are extremely concerned that their "experimental democracy" that they fought so hard for is extremely threatened. So here's a theory, get out the tinfoil. :tinfoilhat:

Chalabi was the first to report this capture. The self-serving idiot is constantly trying to play big dog, just tends to not think before opening his mouth. I do not trust the man, but he does strike me as stupid enough to spout out the story he was given immediately, before someone else beats him to the punch. His story was Kurds had him, they were in negotiations regarding the reward and promises for the future of the Kurds. He also stated SH had a fake beard.

Let's just suppose the Kurds at one time had captured one of Saddams many doubles sometime ago. They decide to hold him, may be useful later on, no point in turning that one in. They also actually have the real Saddam. They send a DNA swab to the coalition to prove it while negotiating.

Then they pull the old switch-a-roo, keeping the real Saddam and giving us the double. There could explain the fake vs. real beard. They get the news out ASAP, who better to open their big mouth than Chalabi.

Notice how since Saddams daughter made the big stink that her father would not go down without a struggle that the latest US version states that he did struggle and spat on the GIs, who "cleaned up" right away. Now the boo-boo on his head is from the butt of a rifle instead of bumping his head coming out of the cubby-hole.

I have come to trust the reports from the locals in the ME. They have been proven right too many times in the past.

I know this is way-out there, but I put nothing against the screen-writers of this misadmin.

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. Here's one of the first reports from last Sunday

He was caught napping

BAGHDAD, Dec 14 (AFP)

Saddam Hussein was captured before dawn today while sleeping at a house in his hometown of Tikrit, Governing Council member Mahmud Othman told AFP.

“Before four am (6.30 am IST), Qusrat Rasul Ali called me to inform me that his men along with the Americans had managed to capture Saddam Hussein as he slept in his hideout in Tikrit this morning,” Othman said. Rasul Ali, who was tortured by Saddam’s henchmen and is known as the lion of Kurdistan, heads a unit of special forces hunting down former regime leaders.

“I was sure the Kurds would catch Saddam Hussein because they have Arab friends in Tikrit, Mosul and the country,” said Othman, a Kurd himself.

“It’s a great joy for the Iraqi people because a great dictator has been arrested,” he added. Ahmed Chalabi, another member of the council, said Saddam was “captured without any resistance,” and that he would be tried in public, according to Iraqi television.

http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/dec15/i2.asp


Seems that some of the gory details have been rewritten since then.

[pinto]

32. kick

[54anickel]

38. Thanks, I couldn't find the original story I read, but have these filed

12/2 La Hood - "we're this close"
http://www.pantagraph.com/stories/120203/new_20031202014.shtml

12/14 Fake beard, in a basement, Bremer notified council (but thought council was originally informed by Iran or Kurds)
http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2297606

Original story broke by INRA
http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:5m4vnTwMZ8MJ:asia.news.yahoo.com/031214/kyodo/d7ve3h600.html+IRNA+saddam+capture&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

This points out an interesting fact, why indeed where all the major media outlets unaware?
http://www.irna.ir/?SAB=OK&LANG=EN&PART=_ARCHIVE&TYPE=_NARCHIVE#2003_12_1419_09_43F23

Here are the original headlines from INRA -
http://www.irna.ir/?LANG=EN&PART=_ARCHIVE&TYPE=_NARCHIVE&start_grd=30

[rocktivity]

29. Hands up who DIDN'T see this coming

As the saying goes, if it sounds too good to be true, it's because a Republican said it...

rocknation

[never cry wolf]

33. It would seem as if the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan

or PUK was upstaged by our own PUKES!

[Nlighten1]

35. Mission Accomplished!

What a bunch of fucking losers.

[ochazuke]

36. Is this story being supressed?

The media coverage of Saddam's capture was the biggest thing since 9/11 or the invasion of Iraq, yet this story has yet to appear in mainstream U.S. press. Why?

Another link:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/12/21/1071941609659.html

There's mention in there of a worry that Kurds and Arabs might go to war over this story.

From my point of view, it just looks like anything that tarnishes the story put out one week ago will be ignored.

[pinto]

37. check out this other thread...something's up when these three get together

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=281025

[imax2268]

39. Here's some links...

Times of India

Palestine Chronicle

Sunday Herald

So as you can see...the foriegn press is all over this...but still not a peep from our press or media...except for Yahoo...

[DoYouEverWonder]

40. Mmm, maybe this is why Bremmer

is coming in for a pow-wow with Rummie & W? They must be shitting bricks. No wonder the WH controlled media isn't touching this with a 10 foot pole? They're waiting for the official story from headquarters.

[SpiralHawk]

41. Of course this story is not being suppressed

It's all in your imagination.

This story is being given the same "fair and balanced" treatement as the Thomas Kean 9/11 Chairman Says 9/11 Could Have Been Prevented. Not much treatment at all.

So there's nothing to complain about. And there's nothing to see here. Move along. Quickly.

[enki23]

43. here's another possibility

both groups were involved, and each is saying "we did it" to their own people. maybe they're both right. besides, he was ratted out. there wasn't anything heroic about it. the reports are about as glamorous as a sub-par cops episode. it doesn't make for an epic made for TV movie, like the fabricated lynch stories.

[damnraddem]

44. The Kurds should have grabbed him for themselves.

Maybe traded him for Tikrit itself.

[windansea]

45. mossad info

http://www.thesundaymail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,8223166%255E904,00.html