Breaking on MSNBC: 6 people wounded in shooting in Florida

[Squatch]

Source: MSNBC

JACKSONVILLE, Florida - Six people were shot Tuesday in a neighborhood near downtown Jacksonville.

Four victims were transported to a hospital and two drove themselves there, WJXT-TV reported. None of the victims is believed to have life-threatening injuries.


Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18421987/

---

Fer Christ's sake.

[Redstone]

1. Ah, but that doesn't mean that guns are too easy to get in the USA, does it?

After all, he could have used a knife, or a baseball bat, or a car, or a swimming pool...

Redstone

[BOSSHOG]

2. The NRA should sweep in there and arm all the citizens now

That's what our founding fathers intended right? All citizens armed to the hilt and blowing the fuck out of one another, all for safety's sake. Hey I can be a fucking idiot conservative too!

[underpants]

5. Direct quote from Jacksonville native

Two feets they come a creepin
Like a black cat do
And two bodies are lyin naked
Creeper think he got nothin to lose
So he creeps into this house, yeah
And unlocks the door
And while a man reaching for his trousers
Shoots him full of .38 holes

(chorus)
Its a saturday night special
Got a barrel thats blue and cold
Aint no good for nothin
But put a man six feet in a hole

Big jims been drinkin whiskey
And playing poker on a losin night
Pretty soon, big jim starts a thinkin
Somebody been cheatin and lyin
So big jim commences to fightin
I wouldnt tell you no lie
And big jim done grab his pistol
Shot his friend right between the eyes

(chorus)

Hand guns are made for killin
Aint no good for nothin else
And if you like your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why dont we dump em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me

[zanne]

15. Who sang that?

Incredible song.

[underpants]

19. -

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Jacksonville Fla natives

[zanne]

27. Wow

That's all I can say. Wow.

[mikeytherat]

20. A notoriously liberal and anti-Southern band: Lynyrd Skynyrd

Yes, it is true. Lynyrd freakin' Skynyrd wrote a scathing anti-handgun song. 33 Years ago.

mikey_the_rat

[rudy23]

60. I wouldn't call 'em anti-Southern, now.

Whatever. A Southern man don't need you around, anyhow.

Do I have to break out my list of Southern liberals again? : )

[mikeytherat]

76. Uh, that was sarcasm.

Point being that even a band as "Hell, yeah!" as Skynyrd saw the dangers of handguns many, many years ago.

Every time I see some yahoo at a pro-gun rally with a Skynyrd T-shirt, I aways think, "You don't know the lyrics to 'Saturday Night Special,' do you?"

mikey_the_rat

[argyl]

41. Here's another. "Devil's Right Hand" by Steve Earle.

'Bout the time that Daddy went to fight the big war
Saw my first pistol in the general store
In the general store,when I was thirteen
Thought it was the finest thing I ever had seen
So I asked if I could have one someday when I grew up
Mama dropped a dozen eggs,she really blew up
She really blew up, I didn't understand
Mama said a pistol was the Devil's right hand
The Devil's right hand, the Devil's right hand
Mama said a pistol was the Devil's right hand

My very first pistol was a cap and ball Colt
Shoots as fast as lightning but it loads a mite slow
It loads a mite slow,I soon found out
It can get you into trouble but it can't get you out
So then I went and bought myself a Colt .45
Called a peacemaker but I never knew why
Never knew why 'cause I didn't understand
That Mama said a pistol is the Devil's right hand

Well I got into a card game in a company town
Caught a miner cheating I shot the dog down
Shot the dog down watched the man fall
Never touched his holster,never had a chance to draw

The trial was in the morning and they drug me out of bed
Asked me how I pleaded, "Not Guilty" I said
"Not guilty I said,you've got the wrong man"
"Nothing touched the trigger but the Devil's right hand"
The Devil's right hand, the Devil's right hand
Mama said a pistol was the Devil's right hand

[damntexdem]

10. Right, that's obviously what they mean by a 'well-regulated militia.'

Meanwhile, in Texas, Guv Good-Hair Perry wants the Legislature to pass allow allowing concealed carry everywhere, including in private residences and businesses whose owners don't want guns.

[Magleetis]

13. The way I interpret

the idiot conservative logic is: If everyone had a gun no one would ever get shot.

[Parche]

21. Guns

Guns dont kill people, Right Wing Constipated Conservatives kill people with their ignorance.....

[ccpup]

3. don't people have hobbies anymore? n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Aparently the new one is to shoot up the neighbordhood

[damntexdem]

12. Some apparently do.

And they make the national media when they practice them with sufficient sincerity.

[atreides1]

6. Florida

Isn't that the place where old Jeb and his Repuke cronies in the state legislature passed that "kill if you think you're in danger law"?????

[kimmylavin]

30. Yup

The brilliant "Stand Your Ground" law (or the "Shoot First" law), which allows people to use guns or other deadly force to defend themselves in public places, against anything they perceive as a threat.

The first major case in Florida where they are trying to use this as a defense is currently ongoing: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-pborden12apr12,0,5575520.story?track=rss

I'm wondering if this had anything to do with this story...

[Ian David]

36. Or, as Stephanie Miller calls it, "The Stank Eye Law"

Someone gives you "The Stank Eye" and you can shoot 'em!

[enid602]

7. common?

I wonder if this will become even more common as our country drifts towards recession, unemployment, impasse, disillusionment, impeachment, defeat, embarrassment, shame . . .

[Redstone]

42. Things were pretty shitty during the Depression too, but people didn't react to it by

committing mass murder, did they?

Redstone

[slackmaster]

55. The murder rate was pretty high during the Depression

I'll try to find something to substantiate it, but all US crime was quite high before the US entered World War II.

Here we go - article about effects of alcohol Prohibition.

Chart and link follows...


http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/miron.prohibition.alcohol

[enid602]

66. interesting

It would be interesting if you superimposed a graph showing levels of gun ownership from 1900 to 1995.

[slackmaster]

67. I've never seen any good info on gun ownership before about 1971

It started getting tracked centrally as a result of the 1968 Gun Control Act. FYI, before that guns of all types (other than items regulated by the 1934 National Firearms Act) were available everywhere by mail order before that, and there were no real recordkeeping requirements.

I would bet that there isn't much of a correlation, at least not so much as there is with the general condition of the economy, unemployment, etc.

[enid602]

65. no

But they weren't spoiled, were they?

[K8-EEE]

8. FL has the most freeper gun laws, right?

Jeez...my friend's dad was killed there when he was followed home after buying gas, he was like 80 years old. I guess the line is that he should have had both a gun and eyes in the back of his head as he approached his friend's front door where he was shot, and then he wouldn't have been shot.

Or something.

[mikelgb]

9. * is in FL

[StarryNite]

33. Is it too much to ask

the higher powers that * were to be... well, I can't say it on here but I can still think it.

[sellitman]

11. Seems to me that

all these mass murderers have a weapon of choice.

It ain't a baseball bat


It ain't a car


It ain't a knife


It ain't a rolling pin


It ain't a broom stick

It is a tool that Kills people though and it should be VERY hard to get for everyone.

Until it is .......enjoy.
:sarcasm:

[Redstone]

14. Hey, you make WAY too much sense. Stand by to get flamed.

Redstone

[sellitman]

75. Let them flame away.

This is just common sense.

I doubt we are alone on this theory but until people really have had enough bloodshed the NRA and their minions will work to make sure there is plenty of misery to go around.

[teenagebambam]

16. Don't overreact

I'm about a half-mile from the shooting site. It's "da hood". Lots of shootings, every day, ALL drug-related. The only tghing unusual this time is that it's daylight.

[Squatch]

18. So that makes it A-OK.

As long as it's in "da hood", the rest of us folks don't need to worry about it.

[teenagebambam]

22. Not my point...

...which is, it happens AT LEAST once a day, I don't know why the media should jump all over it NOW.

[endarkenment]

25. At least once a day six people get shot in one location?

Did you want to revise that statement?

[teenagebambam]

29. Sigh

At lest once a day SOMEONE gets shot, or shot at, in my neighborhood. Sometimes only one, sometimes more than one. I have lived here for ten months and in that time this is the FIRST time it has made the national news. I was just wondering a shooting in a bad neighborhood which has shootings every day would suddenly be newsworthy, especially since no one was killed, apparently.

[endarkenment]

35. Perhaps that is because 6 people got shot?

I understand your point about shootings in general being routine, but the reason why this made headlines is that it was not a routine shooting. Six people getting shot in one episode is going to make the news.

[ohio2007]

58. MSM won't connect the dots you are suggesting.

But they will say prisons are overcrowded but...again, the dots are NOT to be connected

[MGKrebs]

26. Which brings up the point:

If everyone having guns would keep these bad guys from shooting things up,

and

Bad guys don't pay attention to gun laws anyway, so they have guns regardless,


How come all the bad guys having guns doesn't keep them from shooting each other up so much?

[slackmaster]

34. Nice strawman there Maynard

If everyone having guns would keep these bad guys from shooting things up,

The trouble with your comment, you see, is nobody is actually suggesting anything remotely resembling everyone having guns.

[MGKrebs]

37. Well maybe not YOU, but I sure seem to recall

seing plenty of comments in the blogosphere about how the VT thing could have been prevented if someone had been able and willing to shoot back. An argument which, in the case of a university campus, may make limited sense if guns are not allowed on campus, but otherwise doesn't make much sense since in many circumstances, anyone who wants a gun can have one anyway, and bad guys shoot up all kinds of different places.

So, I think we agree: Making it easier or encouraging people to have and carry guns is unlikely to stop disturbed individuals from shooting people in crowded places.

[slackmaster]

38. The only way to keep guns out of an area is to SECURE it

As is done in airports and courthouses: Metal detectors, X-ray machines, armed guards.

So, I think we agree: Making it easier or encouraging people to have and carry guns is unlikely to stop disturbed individuals from shooting people in crowded places.

Yes, I do agree with that statement. The only valid reason I see for someone other than a cop or security guard to carry a gun is for personal protection.

[ohio2007]

59. you mean "a surge" in the direction of an all out police state ?

The difference between law abiders and law breakers is a very blurry line to some.
It's far easier to argue and do nothing
then to make a change in either direction of the gun law.

[slackmaster]

63. My changes would include national shall-ssue and a ban on unenforced "gun-free" zones

If you want to prohibit licensed people from carrying concealed weapons lawfully in your place of business, school, etc. that's your right, BUT in doing so you assume full responsibility for their safety. Put up metal detectors and hire security guards if you are worried about liability.

The rest of my plan, which is always subject to clarification and revision, in brief:

- Fix the holes (missing records) in the NICS database - the state of Virginia is doing this now - see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2828734 ,

- Make NICS available to people other than federal firearms licensees, so they can check the backgrounds of people to who they wish to sell used guns (with necessary safeguards to prevent misuse of the system),

- Actively disarm anyone who is named as the defendant on a restraining order for domestic violence,

- Gun safety education in public schools (discretionary, of course).

[MGKrebs]

71. All that sounds OK except the first part.

Property owners (mostly businesses in this case) should be responsible for inherently dangerous situations that are under their control, like slippery floors or poor lighting. Making them responsible for unauthorized introduction of an unafe condition to their environment (shooting at someone with a gun) is a bad idea and cannot be justified in principle or applied in practice in many cases.

[Forrest Greene]

39. On The Contrary

..a great many people do suggest just that, to the point of mandatory gun-ownership laws being floated here & there, IIRC.

[slackmaster]

44. It's all just silly political posturing

Even the "every home must have a gun" law in Kennesaw, Georgia has an exemption for anyone who really doesn't want a gun in the house.

It provides some entertainment value as a counterpoint to the "ban all handguns" loonies.

[Redstone]

46. Ahem. There are PLENTY of people, including DUers, who have suggested EXACTLY that.

So what was that about a strawman? Is a strawman worse than making a statement that is simply NOT true, and VERIFIABLY not true?

And no, I'm NOT going to go and research all the "everyone should have guns" statements and collect them into a neat pile for your examination, so don't hand me any bullshit about "prove that people made those statements."

You KNOW they did. You'd be lying if you said otherwise.

Redstone

[slackmaster]

50. None who have not been subsequently tombstoned

Nobody on DU has said literally in a serious way that "everyone" should be armed.

You KNOW they did. You'd be lying if you said otherwise.

I'm sure a few obvious disruptors have done that.

[slackmaster]

32. Thanks for the insight from the ground

I've never been to Jacksonville.

[ohio2007]

56. It's "da hood". eom

So you know the area well?
As for the rest,
move on,nothing to discuss any further.

[truthisfreedom]

17. I gues it's lucky the shooter had such bad aim.

Guns suck.

[slackmaster]

45. I'm going to take a wild guess and say some gang-banger shot a bunch of rivals in the leg

And I agree with Jody it's likely the shooter wasn't even eligible to have a gun at all.

[TX-RAT]

48. 4 were on a porch and hit with bird-shot from a shot gun

The other 2 were hit about 4 block away.

[ohio2007]

61. imo ,a lack of an education in fire arms

I don't own a gun but I say people should have some basic training before they get a gatt to pop a cap in someones azz !

[jody]

23. I'll venture a guess that the person doing the shooting could not legally own a firearm. Therefore

it makes perfect sense to pass a law prohibiting law-abiding citizens from owning a firearm for self-defense.

Oh sorry, that's what the Scary Brady Bunch recommends.

[MGKrebs]

43. Not everyone fits neatly into catagories like that.

Just like pretty much every other facet of life, there are gray areas and a whole spectrum of variations.

Besides, I am unaware of the Brady thing you are referring to that would prohibit people from owning guns for self-defense. Can you elaborate?

In any case, it is easy to believe that with tighter restrictions on gun ownership, SOME people who should not have guns would not get them, or an attack that occurs in the heat of the moment is prevented due to a trigger lock or a seperated ammunition situation, or the threshold for those receiving psychological help is better defined to help avoid problems.

[jody]

53. Republican Sara Brady heads the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, link below.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/

The Brady Campaign orThe Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence or The Brady Campaign united with the Million Mom March was founded in 1974 as The National Council to Control Handguns (NCCH) by Dr. Mark Borinsky, a victim of gun violence.<1> The NCCH was re-named Handgun Control, Inc. from 1980 until 2001. On June 14, 2001, Handgun Control, Inc. was renamed the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence has always been, and still is, a political lobbying group promoting the cause of gun control.

Other information at "Nobody Wants to Take Your Guns."

[Odin2005]

24. Beware MSM sensationalism.

I smell an attempt by the corporatist nooze to hurt the Dems by pushing the gun issue.

[gaspee]

28. Excellent point

As long as there is such vocal opposition to any gun control, supported by one of the most influential lobbies out there, the MSM will keep pushing the gun control angle to make dems look bad.

Sane gun control suggestions are harped on by the media to make dems look like gun grabbers. Even when it just ain't true.

I'm all on favor of sane, moderate handgun control and after the last shooting, moderates like myself were painted as wanting to take away the toys and we should just STFU because gun control is waht cost the 2000 election (I disagree with that assessment of the 2000 election, BTW.) What cost that election was Fox and the supreme court.

[ohio2007]

54. I kinda wonder if the truth may be more like

a difference of opinion over "prescription drug" care

[slackmaster]

31. So little information about what actually happened, such strong knee-jerk reactions

:nuke:

[TX-RAT]

49. Link

http://www.news4jax.com/news/13235609/detail.html

[slackmaster]

51. Sounds like gang-bangers out looking for trouble

And finding it.

Normal folks would be at work, at school, or at home taking care of themselves or their families.

Sheriff John Rutherford visited the neighborhood late Tuesday to talk with the neighbors about their concerns.

"This makes it clear to the community that they have got to work with the police," Rutherford said. "Give us those gun-bounty tips to help get these guns off the street, that's the first thing. The second thing is, don't hang around with people who carry guns illegally."

Rutherford said that detectives got some good information from witnesses to the shootings, but was not getting much cooperation from the victims.

:eyes:

[ohio2007]

69. It was just another drive by shooting over turf and a "woman"

Four people were shot at as they sat on a porch at a home in the 1500 block of West 11th Street, then two more were hit in an exchange of gunfire between two vehicles at the intersection of Eighth and Lambert streets, about four blocks away, according to police.


Investigators said the two men at Eighth and Lambert fired back, but it was not known what kind of gun they had or if the gunman was hit.

The sheriff said all of the victims shot are 15 to 17 years old.

"We think that these two are related. We believe now that the shooting at 1552 East 11th was in retaliation for a fight that took place two days earlier over a girl -- a fist fight -- and they came back apparently to settle the score," Rutherford said.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/13235609/detail.html#

[ohio2007]

70. oh, maybe a video of the cat fight will make it to YouTube

isn't the internet a wonderfull tool ready to scoop what the MSM won't dare risk showing in the fear of upsetting and losing advertisers over.

[David Zephyr]

40. Hey, Jeb Bush made sure everyone in Florida is packing guns. Here's the results.

Texas and Florida: setting the nation back 100 years.

[superconnected]

47. If they'd only all been armed then the best shooter would win...

And we could all hope it isn't the bad guy.

Gotta love blood. I mean guns.

[ohio2007]

52. What were they shooting about ?

Will the MSM reveal names,reasons?

[superconnected]

62. Can you think of any good reason to shoot 6 people?

It may be gang violence, who knows.

[slackmaster]

64. Mid-afternoon vehicle-to-vehicle shooting on a Tuesday in a rough part of town?

You bet your ass it was gang violence.

[SunDrop23]

57. Maybe Bush will make reference to it in his veto speech, I can hear it now...

Why just today some people were killed in Florida by agents of Al-Qaeda using yellowcake uranium from Niger that was produced in a mobile bio and chemical weapons lap recently dug up from the desert sands of Syria. This should remind us all of September the 11th.

[jody]

68. Apparently a shotgun was used and the gunmen are under 18.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/crimestoppers/news-article.aspx?storyid=81162

QUOTE
Police believe a car drove up on a group of men sitting on a porch. Someone inside the car fired birdshot out of a shotgun at the victims. Police say the car sped down the street and someone in the car opened fire on two more individuals at 8th and Lambert street. Police say those two victims fired back before taking themselves to Shands Jacksonville.

JSO officers took pictures of the bullet-riddled car at Shands for evidence.

Sheriff John Rutherford says the investigation is moving slowly due to a lack of cooperation from the shooting victims.

Investigators, however, believe the gunmen are under 18.
UNQUOTE

[-..__...]

72. It's still the NRAs fault!

:sarcasm:

[ohio2007]

73. So, no school that day for these 'youths'

or is there no curfews down there ?

/sarc

[Name removed]

74. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MayorCandidate08]

77. Just like a video game

Oh...maybe thats the problem?