France's Royal warns of violence as Sarozy tipped to win

[Flagg]

Source: AFP

PARIS, May 4, 2007 (AFP) - Socialist Segolene Royal warned Friday that France could slide into violence if Nicolas Sarkozy wins the presidency as the rightwinger extended his poll lead on the final day of the hard fought campaign.
Royal, seeking to become France's first woman president, said she was "issuing an alert" that a Sarkozy victory in the election on Sunday could "trigger violence and brutalities across the country."
"His candidacy is dangerous. That is why I am asking voters to think twice," Royal told RTL radio on the last day of campaigning in one of the most exciting elections in decades.
Sarkozy cemented his frontrunner position as the four latest polls showed he would beat Royal with between 53 percent and 54.5 percent of votes, against a range of 45.5 and 47 percent for the Socialist.
The candidate of President Jacques Chirac's governing party gained between half a percentage point to 2.5 points in the polls carried out after a heated television debate Wednesday evening.
Royal described her rival as "the candidate of the hard right", backed by big media and financial interests and underscored that he was unwelcome in the high-immigrant suburbs that exploded into rioting while he served as interior minister.

<snip>

During his final big rally in the southern city of Montpellier late Thursday, a confident Sarkozy urged supporters to help him "create the conditions for a French rebirth" as he appeared increasingly sure of victory.
"People accuse me of encouraging public anger. But who's angry? The yobs? The drug-traffickers? I can assure you: I do not seek to be the friend of yobs. My aim is not to make myself popular among the traffickers and the fraudsters," he thundered.
In the northern city of Lille, Royal hammered home on her campaign theme of bringing change to France without brutality, saying she wanted "a new France, a protecting France, a fraternal France, a competitive France."

Read more: http://www.ttc.org/200705041043.l44ah4o00469.htm

[annabanana]

1. "The yobs?" What's a "yob"?

Is Sarkozy a bully enabler? He sounds a bit like France's Giuliani.

[htuttle]

3. I think 'yob' is a British term...

...for 'drunken, rowdy rugby-fan type'.

If you've even seen the BBC comedy 'Little Britain', the Vicki Pollard character is sort of a yob.

[daleo]

17. I think it was derived from "boy" spelled backwards

It's like you say, with the implication of immaturity as well.

[KiraBS]

29. A yob or yobbo

A yob is someone that looks for drunken fights and has little regard for anyone around them.
They vandalise parks and property, let their kids run wild, pick fights at football matches and cricket matches. Yob is also a class of builder who does shoddy work, over-charges, while working the minimum hours possible.

[NYC]

31. Thank you for the definition.

:hi:

[conspirator]

2. Sarkozy is more dangerous than Bush, besides the evil he has brains

[smirkymonkey]

36. Frat Boys are taking over the world.

:(

[whistle]

4. More fascist try to take over around the world and this Nicolas Sarkozy

...is described as an Atlanticist<1>. Boy, that's a new term to me. See note below.

<snip>
From: BBC News
Profile: Nicolas Sarkozy

Nicolas Sarkozy casts himself as a moderniser, championing a clean break with France's traditional ruling elite.

His strong showing in the first round of the presidential election set up an intriguing contest against Socialist candidate Segolene Royal.

As a highly combative interior minister and UMP leader he has sharply divided opinion in France - not least by adopting a tough stance on immigration.

He famously described young delinquents in the Paris suburbs as racaille , or "rabble".

That blunt comment - made before the 2005 riots - encouraged some critics to put him in the same category as far-right leader Jean-Marie Le Pen.

Integration policy

Mr Sarkozy, 52, pushed through measures to curb illegal immigration - including deportations - and to integrate skilled migrants into French society.

But he has also advocated positive discrimination to help reduce youth unemployment - a challenge to those wedded to the French idea of equality. His call for state help for Muslims to build mosques was also controversial.
<MORE>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3673102.stm


NOTE: <1> Atlanticism is a philosophy of cooperation among European and North American nations regarding political, economic, and defense issues. One who believes in Atlanticism is known as an Atlantist or an Atlanticist.

Individual examples include Tony Blair, Zbigniew Brzezinski and Javier Solana. NATO is an Atlanticist organization, and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, a production of Lockheed Martin (USA) along with partners Northrop Grumman (USA) and BAE Systems (UK), is an Atlanticist project. On continental Europe, many Eastern European countries such as Poland and Romania <1>profess a strong Atlanticist view.

Atlanticism has undergone significant changes in the 21st century in light of the global war on terror and Iraq war. After the September 11, 2001 attacks, NATO invoked Article 5 for the first time, which states that any attack on a member state will be considered an attack against the entire group of members. This prompted European countries to send a small amount of troops to the US to assist non-combat activities. European and North American forces are also working together in Afghanistan. However, the Iraq war caused fissures between certain Western European states and the US as well as Eastern European states such as Poland. Countries which supported the Iraq war, such as Spain and Italy, saw their staunchly pro-Iraq war governments lose in recent elections. Cooperation with the US has also been criticized in light of certain unnamed European countries assisting the US with secret CIA prisons.

http://www.answers.com/topic/atlanticism

[tritsofme]

19. Taking over the world through democratic elections?

In Europe a "rightwinger" probably stands to the left of US Democrats on most issues.

[DFW]

46. Very much so, in fact!

And this is coming to you live and in color from
the German Rheinland (gotta be back in France Tuesday,
that should be interesting!)

[robcon]

5. Saying there will be violence if your opponent wins...

is the worst kind of demagoguery. Royal is really desperate, IMO. She may be left of center, but she's a demagogue.

[PassingFair]

6. Those quotes have a LOT of ellipses ... ... ...

sounds like propaganda and selective quoting to me.

[FuJun]

8. Incorrect...

Not a demogogue if truth is being told. The violence she warns of may not happen overnight, but France is headed for stormy times if this neo-con facist is elected. The formula is simple: Neo-Conism/Facism=social decay, tension, poverty and violence...Democratic Socialism=peace, prosperity, and harmony

[Oglethorpe]

11. I agree

I'm in hearty agreement robcon. Its one thing to debate on the issues, but this is akin to the republicans saying that if the democratic party wins in 2008, then "the terrorists win".

[marshall]

12. So in other words--status quo?

The ongoing violence is why the French are flailing around trying to find a different solution. Royal needs to come up with her own plan for curbing violence instead of just slinging mud.

[Bassic]

14. I agree that it looks that way, but

she may very well be right in this case. There is a lot of discontent in France's immigrant population, as was illustrated by the riots in the suburbs of Paris at the end of 2005. Sarkozy is sort of emblematic of the conflict and has repeatedly fueled the fire with his comments on the matter.

[slackmaster]

21. Is that a valid factor for a French citizen to use in deciding who to vote for?

Is it reasonable to allow FEAR of a segment of the population going off the deep end, to determine how one votes?

I'm not familiar enough with the situation in France to make a definite statement, but it sure looks like a form of blackmail to me.

[Jack_DeLeon]

23. Thats what it sounds like to me too

"the streets will flow with the blood of the non-believers." :eyes:

[KiraBS]

30. It is stuff like this that is costing her the election.....

and on the last day of campaigning is was not a smart quote.

My parents life in France and even my Dad who is a dye in the wool Socialist, can see that
stuff like this makes her a weak candidate. She has misspoken far too often and it has cost her credibility among the French voters, in the area were my parents live.

[Canuckistanian]

41. You're right - even Royal's supporters regret that kind of language

It's not considered proper in France to try and manipulate public sentiment in order to cause fear like that.

It's a very controversial statement and may actually lose her some votes.

[maddezmom]

7. Royal compares Sarkozy to Bush

Royal compares Sarkozy to Bush By ANGELA CHARLTON, Associated Press Writer
Fri May 4, 5:01 AM ET



PARIS - Socialist Segolene Royal, seizing on President Bush's unpopularity in France, accused her rival in Sunday's presidential runoff of "mimicking" the American leader by feigning concern for people who are suffering.

She also said a victory by the tough-talking Nicolas Sarkozy would lead to more violence in France's troubled suburbs.

Sarkozy, a conservative who admits to being pro-American in a country widely suspicious of Washington, called Royal's comments "extreme" and suggested she was reacting to polls published Friday that showed him with a comfortable lead.

Royal shrugged off her low numbers, noting that some voters were still undecided. "I am fighting to the finish to convince the French. We must ... make the French understand the choice before them."

more:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070504/ap_on_re_eu/france_election_15

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

10. Royal is absolutely correct!

If elected, Sarkozy will instantly become the most hated President in French history. He has already alienated the youth who are the future of France - his supporters are those who hate and fear the young and the immigrants. He has called them "rabble", and plans a "law and order" effort to quell unrest with police tactics.

If you do not already know this: the cops in France are very heavy-handed, and continually persecute the young and the poor by intimidation and arrest for non-violent drug crimes, particularly the trafficing and use of Hashish. His plan takes the path from historical neglect of the banlieus to outright oppression.

I am very disappointed in the French public, but it is not unexpected... France may be a socialist country, but it is also very conservative, generally, and racism against North African immigrants is rampant. Also, frankly, French culture is quite sexist, and this works against Royal.

Royal is right - Sarkozy is taking a page from the Bush playbook: play the fear card all day, every day, and damn the consequences.

[Solo_in_MD]

16. Royal is wrong and is desperate...

Sarkozy is not Le Pen and his overall policies would be considered LEFT OF CENTER in the US. He is to the right of Royal, but he is not a right wing nut as some have painted, and is certainly not a BushBot.

[demoleft]

38. Sarkozy is not Bayrou, as right is not center

Bayrou, 17% at the elections, said he would not vote for Sarkozy as he's too close to media and financial big lobbies. he considers Sarko a danger for democracy and anything but what France needs to turn from what he sees as decadence.
Sarkozy backs up Bush and it would be very difficult for a european like me to see him as "leftist" - i assure you!
he will divide Europe once again which is extremely dangerous expecially now that Bush means to go on in Iraq.
let's wait and see but with poor hopes for Royal..

[tritsofme]

20. If he's going to win the election with 56% of the vote

Then it would stand to reason that someone must not hate him...

[Rage for Order]

52. "...the most hated president in French history."?

Talk about your over-the-top hyperbole. You may want to study a little French history before making that kind of ludicrous assertion. Sarkozy wouldn't be my choice for president of France, but "If elected, Sarkozy will instantly become the most hated President in French history."? Not even close.

[Laughing Mirror]

9. The word was already out on the streets of those high-immigrant "cités" last week

If you have a car, hide it. If Sarkozy wins expect the riot police out by the busload and lots of burning cars. And it will not end there, no way.

Too many people that have fallen victim to the Sarkozy charm & bought the propaganda will discover too late they should have read the hazardous warning label.

[Orsino]

13. Ah. and Dems will cause another 9/11.

Cheap tactic, even if there is a grain of truth in it.

[Bassic]

15. There's more than a grain of truth to it I'm afraid.

It's sad really, because it does sound like a cheap tactic, even though she may very well be right.

[ohio2007]

18. Analysis: Preparing for a French revolution in Mideast policy

article on how both sides may change up foreign policy of France.
Article excerpt;

Middle East policy has been the most important and controversial international issue in the hard-fought French presidential election campaign. And depending on the results, the vote could mark the first major change in that policy for three decades.

Both Nicolas Sarkozy and S gol ne Royal, the candidates of the center-right and the Socialists, respectively, have promised major shifts in France's stance on the Iranian, Lebanese, and Israeli-Palestinian issues if they win.

They are reacting against the regime of outgoing President Jacques Chirac, who for 12 years - following in the footsteps of predecessors back to Charles de Gaulle - has allied the country with Arab dictators such as Yasser Arafat and Saddam Hussein. By making France the Arabs' favorite Western state, Chirac and other Gaullists have tried to create an alignment to counter the great - and in France, much-despised - primacy of the United States.



-snip-

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=1&cid=1177251147449&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

in the end,whichever party is selected to head the state of France,chances are they will "talk the talk" but do little to rock the vote. But I do find it odd that one side ( behind in the polls) is ready to whip up the masses in defiance of the election results ( that is if the socialist canidate loses as seems expected at this point )

France considers herself a superpower btw.

[yava]

24. Ohio, thats just the point!

France has 10% population of arabic origin. The Jewish population is less than a tenth of that. It is part of democracy to consider the wishes and well being of your citizens and their families. Israel is a democracy but only for its Jewish citizens. France has historically played a balancing act that at times has tempered the excesses of its powerful alley, the USA.
Now that balancing act is going to disappear. So the world will need to count even more on democrats (in the larger sense of the word) in the US to counter-balance this lost voice on the good side.
Sarkosy IS part of the Neocon-Zionist alliance and he IS coming to power through fear, the media and bankers and hedge funds. There are legitimate security and other reasons to change some things in France and Sarkosy would have been the perfect Prime Minister (who could be fired on short notice) to try to go in that direction. But his election as President for 5 years is likely to bring violence because no one will be able to fire him in case of trouble.

[LeftishBrit]

58. WTF????

What a post to see on a liberal board!

I suppose you'd have preferred LePen?

[cigsandcoffee]

22. God, what an ugly tactic.

That reeks of desperation.

[billbuckhead]

25. American Republicans and neoCONS threaten this all the time

We're just used to it. It's kind of a Stockholm Syndrome. It's just taken for granted from the American rightwing, when it comes from the left it seems new and awful. Remember the white collar riot in Florida?

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

26. Royal is stating the OBVIOUS!

France faces great structural problems right now : high unemployment and increasing costs of the traditional social model, the deterioration of life in the banlieus and inner cities of Paris, Lyon, Marseilles due to poverty and lack of opportunity for advancement of the youth, racism and generalized fear of globalization and the future.

Sarkozy has taken advantage of all this by declaring the "rabble" to be the enemy, playing on the fears of the "haves" of the "have-nots". The overwhelming majority of the "have-nots" - are NOT illegal immigrants - they are the first- and second- generation descendants of legal immigrants who were refugees from the Algerian War of Independence. The "pied-noir", some 2 million of them, allies of the French colonialists, fled to France after 1962, when the French withdrew from Algeria. The pied-noir were offered an ultimatum: choose French citizenship within 3 months and emigrate, or stay in Algiers to face retribution for being "collaborators". Of course, they ended up in France, fearing retribution (which fears have been amply justified in the past 45 years).

So these good people, who tried to help the French run one of their most valuable colonial holdings, ended up in France poor and with little education, stripped of their traditional culture and looked down upon by much of the population. Nevertheless, they became the backbone of the service industry and agriculture and their children have strived to integrate into the larger society. For this the pied-nor and their children and their children's children, ALL of whom are FRENCH CITIZENS, have been disparaged and degraded and disregarded, allowed to languish in the backwaters of the greater society until they rebel.

Sarkozy is a hypocrite of the first order. He himself is the child of Hungarian immigrants, yet he calls the young and the dispossessed "rabble" or "refuse". Emotionally, the term can be translated as "garbage". He plans to settle social unrest by police-state tactics and repressive rules, rather than finding common ground and a bright future by accomodation and education and the creation of greater opportunity. Especially for the young, this is an enormous insult, and not to be forgotten. The youth of France only want a way forward - hope for the future, and resent the decades of neglect, racism, sexism, and class warfare they have witnessed.

Sarkozy blames the problems of modern France on illegal immigrants when they constitute, at most, about 250,000 people. The difficulties La Republique faces are many and genuine, but to place the onus on the old, poor and the young is reprehensible.

Royal may be desperate to gain points in the polls, but she is also correct: the election of Sarkozy will most certainly lead to great social unrest and, probably, violence.

[CHIMO]

27. Russia Faces Rougher Ride After French Vote

Even before the votes are counted in this Sunday's French presidential runoff election, one thing is certain: Russia's relationship with France is going to change.

During his 12 years in office, outgoing President Jacques Chirac, an admirer of Russian culture, proved a reliable ally of Presidents Boris Yeltsin and Vladimir Putin.

Chirac, along with former German Chancellor Gerhard SchrЪder and former Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, often sided with Russia in major international disputes.

Both candidates in the runoff, conservative Nicolas Sarkozy and Socialist Segolene Royal, have proven during the campaign to be more critical of Russia than Chirac ever was and more committed to forging a united front within the European Union on critical issues, including defense and energy policy.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2007/05/04/003.html

In summary: It looks tome like it will be a rough ride for the EU for the coming years. A return to the cold war rhetoric, a fracturing of the EU and a re-evaluation of NATO.

[Odin2005]

28. What a bunch of disgusting mudslinging. Shame on Royal.

French "conservatives" are farther left then many Democrats here. Also, the French Presidency is not as strong as ours; the French President is the C-in-C of the military and is the chief diplomat, but much of the day-to-day executive branch stuff is handled by the prime minister.

[Bassic]

32. On the contrary, the presidency is just as powerful, if not more.

For example, the president can simply decide to dissolve the National Assembly it he so choses. Also, the prime-minister is chosen by the president, from within the Assembly.

[Odin2005]

33. Doh! I stand corrected!

[rcdean]

34. Saw part of their debate. Royal was not impressive. Sarkozy seemed liberal.

Royal rambled endlessly.

Sarkozy's views were quite liberal, I thought.

This is a low tactic. Reminds me of Giuliani and Bush. Shame on her.

[demoleft]

42. you say right: Sarkozy "seemed liberal"

Royal reminds the violence exploded in Paris some time ago and suspects - maybe rightly - that Sarkozy's approach will worsen the tensions.
Sarkozy comes from a party and a recent tradition with a dubious approach on immigration and social politics.
Besides he was compared by centrist Bayrou to italian Berlusconi - which to an italian like me says so much!

as to the debate style Sarko was extremely elegant - he had to be, as he had been accused of being a bit aggressive!

[ohio2007]

50. Royal had nothing to offer

No real plans for change when pressed to answer.

[lanlady]

35. Mme Royal is fear-mongering

We Democrats denounce fear-mongering when it comes from Bush. Segolene's tactic is equally deplorable. There will be more violence, yes, if something isn't done about the high unemployment and alienation in the immigrant suburbs. But Mme Royal hasn't proposed anything concrete to deal with those problems, beyond some national youth job center that she thinks will solve everything.

[IndianaGreen]

40. Sarkozy will do what the righwing did in Poland

Ban abortion, persecute gays, agitate against Muslims, turn France into a Wal-Mart.

[demoleft]

53. Sarko's tactic for "immigrant suburbs"?

he will just ignore them. i don't forget some Chirac past remarks on immigrants and suburbs. i perceive them as old, conservative, no more nor less.
Sarko will spend very poor money on social politics. perhaps Royal was wrong in expressing like that but the problem in the suburbs won't be solved imposing law and order without clear perspectives.

[smirkymonkey]

37. I have a friend who lives in France, married to a French man, and

who is voting for Sarkozy. In the United States she is a Liberal Democrat, however she thinks Royal would be a disaster for France. By our standards, she said that Sarkozy is not all that conservative. She doesn't love Sarkozy, but prefers him to Royal and will vote for him today.

[ohio2007]

49. And why did she 'dislike' Royal ?

smoke and mirror unemployment programs?

[smirkymonkey]

54. She felt like she would be a disaster for the economy and that

she didn't really have the experience to solve France's unemployment problems. She kind of felt that it would have been a "free-for-all" with Royal, which really wouldn't solve anything long term.

[Bassic]

57. Well that's pretty much how she's been presented in the media

Well, at least in Sarkozy's media.

[IndianaGreen]

39. Sarkozy is the French version of George W. Bush or Australian PM Howard

He is anti-Muslim, anti-gay, anti-abortion. He will exploit social problems in France to solidify himself in power. He will push for a rightwing agenda that will turn France into a Bush puppet state.

[demoleft]

43. you're right...

...and alas he's going to win, dividing Europe once again...

[Oglethorpe]

44. Dividing Europe?

I had no idea he was that much of a nut. Will the French invade the Germans this time?

[demoleft]

47. Why? is Germany on the neo-con agenda?!

[Flagg]

45. He's not anti-abortion

Simone Veil, the woman who made abortion legal in France is one of his supporters.

[demoleft]

51. You mean Simone Veil...

Mrs Weil, fighter against the fascists in Spain and dead 1943, would have had some difficulty in backing Sarko.

[ohio2007]

48. The French have made their choice

let them live and learn. I don't think either canidate could "make enough jobs" to reduce the unemployment ranks as the MSM claims this is what the election was all about.

[IndianaGreen]

55. The French made their choice in '08, and Americans theirs in '04.

And we all know how well that went! :-(

[Bassic]

56. He is also akin to Italy's Berlusconi..

as he owns a big chunk of the media.

[LeftishBrit]

59. He's very unlikely to turn France into a Bush puppet state

The French, perhaps especially those on the Right, are too nationalistic to want to be anyone's puppet state.

In any case, joining Bush at this stage would be a bit like a rat jumping *onto* a sinking ship.

He is worrying because of his right-wing economic attitudes and because he might be tempted to pander to the anti-immigrant bigots; but he won't become a Bush-puppet.