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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-04-07 01:25 PM
Original message
Ecuador refuses US maneuvers
Source: Press TV

Ecuador refuses US maneuvers
Fri, 04 May 2007 03:57:24
Ecuador has refused to participate in the UNITAS 2007 maneuvers because of an unacceptable attitude on the part of the United States.

A statement from the Ecuadorian Foreign Ministry revealed that this nation does not accept impositions and negations of control with respect to the entry of US troops in maritime waters in order to carry out these exercises.

Such a decision motivated the Southern Command of that nation to cancel the venue for the aforementioned military operations in Ecuador and transfer it to Colombia.

According to the Foreign Ministry, Ecuador has withdrawn from the exercises due to the fact that the United States failed to respond to its request that foreign vessels send a protocol signal on entering its territorial waters on the southern border with Peru.

A request such as this adheres to the protocol observed by these countries in 2003 when staging the operations.


Read more: http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=8578§ionid=3510207



This news is not available through corporate media sources. They apparently don't think it's something we need to know.
Havana. May 3, 2007

Ecuador refuses to participate in maneuvers with U.S.

QUITO, May 2.— Ecuador confirmed this Wednesday its refusal to participate in the UNITAS 2007 maneuvers because of an unacceptable attitude on the part of the United States.

A statement from the Ecuadorian Foreign Ministry revealed that this nation does not accept impositions and negations of control with respect to the entry of U.S. troops in maritime waters in order to carry out these exercises.

Such a decision motivated the Southern Command of that nation to cancel the venue for the aforementioned military operations in Ecuador and transfer it to Colombia.

“In the face of these unusual, unilateral, non-consulted and unacceptable decisions,” it has been decided not to take part in these training exercises that are also going ahead in Chile and Peru, stated the communiqué.
http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2007/mayo/juev3/ecuador-refuses-participate-maneuvers-with%20u.s..html
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-04-07 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. So . . . exactly how much aid from the U.S. do you suppose that Ecuador
can afford to lose?
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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-04-07 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm curious how much they get vs how much is taken?
I have to leave the house now but something to think about later.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-04-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Chavez Is Their New Sugar Daddy
and treats them a hell of a lot better than Uncle Sam ever did.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-04-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Ha "US Official Says Chavez Economic Policies Unsustainable"
Now guess which US Official said that



Mr. Death Squad himself. Negroponte!

Ha!

Negroponte said the best way to counter Chavez would be for the United States and Latin America’s democracies to adopt a common approach "so that we are more or less singing from the same page."

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has asked Negroponte, a former ambassador to Mexico and Honduras, to advise her on Latin American issues as part of his portfolio.

He is closely identified with U.S. policies in Central America in the 1980s, having served as ambassador to Honduras at a time when Washington was backing anti–communist rebels in neighboring Nicaragua. U.S. military aid to Honduras sharply increased during the period.

Negroponte will make his first trip to Latin America as deputy secretary next week, visiting Colombia, Ecuador, Peru and Panama.

http://www.caycompass.com/cgi-bin/CFPnews.cgi?ID=1021893


Negroponte is coming to Ecuador. Outrage on top of outrage.

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-04-07 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. US aid comes with claws and talons, as most of South America is beginning to
realize--and act upon. The murderous US "war on drugs"--beneficial to rightwing paramilitaries in the top echelons of the Uribe government in Colombia--infamous for slaughtering thousands of union organizers, leftists and peasants, for drug trafficking and for plotting to destabilize the Andean democracies. Billions of dollars in Bush/US (our taxpayer) dollars larded upon Uribe and his death squads. US-World Bank loans that destroy South American economies and societies (Argentina, for instance). US "free trade" deals that rip South American countries open to naked exploitation of labor and natural resources. Self-determination, independence, and regional cooperation--as with the Bank of the South, and Mercosur (So. Amer. trade group), and leftist (majorityist) government, insuring that everyone benefits from their labor and resources--is the way to go. US aid with fascist dictatorships attached is a thing of the past--and is an ENFORCER of poverty, not a reliever of it. The now thriving economies of Argentina and Venezuela are prime examples of what rejection of US policy can do good government, democracy and prosperity. Being the beaten up victims of US "aid" has gotten South Americans exactly nowhere. Happily, transparent elections and grass roots organization are taking over, and winning. We could learn from them. What have our Corporate Predator Rulers done for us lately? Horrible unjust war. Torture. Infamy. Gas gouging. Outsourcing of jobs and manufacturing. Skyrocketing medical costs. Skyrocketing education costs. Usurious credit card rates. Multiple tax breaks for the "haves and the have-mores." Rampant crime at the White House level and in other board rooms. $10 trillion deficit. Destruction of our emergency services. Destruction of our National Guard. Destruction of our Justice Department. Destruction of our education system.

Solutions, as per South America:

1. Transparent vote counting (!).
2. Grass roots organization.
3. Think big.

Think about being a free people once again, determining our own laws, determining the use of our own tax dollars and other resources, and not living under the (not-so-velvet-any-more) boot of the Corporate Predators.

The South Americans have had a difficult time of it--with the US attempting to destroy every democratic movement that has arisen. They have learned the hard way. Now WE are the "Banana Republic," and I hope we don't have to go through what they have gone through, in order to restore democracy and good government. But if they can do it. So can we.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-04-07 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Superb comments. I hope Correa is going to be powerful enough to withstand
Edited on Fri May-04-07 02:28 PM by Judi Lynn
the storm ahead. Morales, as well. I hope they ALL can maintain, as Bush goes after them any way possible.

Correa knows he has the will of the people behind him. He was handsomely elected in the last election, despite the threats and intimidation from the Bush administration, and its support of the richest man in Ecuador, the nasty little fascist banana plantation owning (and child labor exploiter) tycoon, Alvaro Noboa.



President Rafael Correa



Right-wing also-ran, Alvaro Noboa.
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murray hill farm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-05-07 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Wow!
What a clear and precise piece of writing you have done there. In just a few words, you have said it all. Thank you.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-05-07 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. I think that there's a lot of wealth created inside Latin America and lot of
Edited on Sat May-05-07 10:10 AM by 1932
Latin American leaders who want to reinvest it in Latin America, so these countries actually can afford to turn their backs on US money.

I think venezuela recently moved 5 billion dollars from EU bank accounts to put in a bank of the south that reinvests in Latin America. Also, the US share of global GDP is shrinking all the time. These countries are also paying off their IMF loans.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-04-07 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. Natives of oil-polluted Ecuador call out Chevron
Natives of oil-polluted Ecuador call out Chevron

By Amanda Witherell
San Francisco Bay Guardian
San Francisco
Petroleumworld.com 05 03 07

Pablo Fajardo, Humberto Piaguaje, and Guillermo Grefa - three natives of Ecuador - recently made a visit to the Bay Area, but not as mere tourists.

" I've come here to inform you, San Francisco, so that you here might know what Chevron does outside the borders of the United States," Fajardo said at a press conference outside City Hall. "They are contributing to the destruction of humanity on a global level."

Fajardo is one of the lead litigators in a 14-year-old civil action lawsuit against Texaco (which was purchased by the Chevron Corp. in 2001) accusing the multinational oil company of business practices that soured the lakes, streams, soil, air, and lives of the residents of Lago Agrio ("sour lake" in Spanish). Texaco was based in this rainforest region for 28 years and operated 343 wells and processing plants that pumped 1.

5 billion barrels of oil through a 300-mile exposed pipeline over the Andes. The plaintiffs allege that substandard storage and handling of the oil and its toxic byproducts during those productive years have poisoned an area three times the size of Manhattan.

More:
http://www.petroleumworld.com/story07050316.htm
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-04-07 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. Ecuador Joins Whales Commission
Edited on Fri May-04-07 03:28 PM by Judi Lynn
Ecuador Joins Whales Commission

Quito, May 4 (Prensa Latina) Ecuador ratified its commitment to environmental conservation when returning to the International Whaling Commission.

Chancellor Maria Fernanda Espinosa highlighted her country s integration to the group of nations that support a permanent moratorium on those mammals hunting.

The Minister explained the government s will to establish mechanisms to protect whales and detailed the importance of observing that species.

The presence of whales favors tourism and generates incomes of around seven million dollars, according to official calculations.

~~~~ link ~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Sea Shepherd News
05/01/2007
Ecuador Will Join the International Whaling Commission This Year

Reliable sources have confirmed to Sea Shepherd Galapagos Director of Operations Sean O’Hearn-Gimenez that Ecuador will be joining the International Whaling Commission (IWC) and will be attending the meeting to be held on May 4th, 2007 in Anchorage, Alaska, thereby demonstrating that the government of the President of the Republic of Ecuador, Economist Rafael Correa, is serious about the conservation of the world’s environment.

Sea Shepherd Conservation Society has supported conservation efforts in the Galapagos Islands, a province of Ecuador, since the year 2000 and has been advising the current administration, (through its allied Ecuadorian grassroots organization, Fundación Selva-Vida Sin Fronteras), of the need for Ecuador to join as member of the IWC and to send its delegate to the 59th International meeting of this intergovernmental organization to be held this year. The IWC is responsible for whaling regulations on a global scale, and to date consists of 70 different nations, including Latin American countries such as Argentina, Brazil, Peru and Chile.

O’Hearn-Giminez commented that, “The significance of Ecuador’s presence and vote this year against the threat of commercial whaling could be decisive at this international event, and Sea Shepherd and its allies only interest is that the whales be saved and protected.” The Galapagos Islands are included on UNESCO’s World Heritage Site list and have been protected as a Marine Biological Reserve but a little known fact is that Ecuador had also declared the Galapagos Islands a Whale Sanctuary in 1990. It is for this reason that Ecuador’s decision to be directly involved in this whale conservation issue has profoundly demonstrated to the world that it is taking a lead in protecting marine species, especially those that are in danger of extinction.

Whales are a highly migratory species that follow a migratory route from the Antarctic waters up towards the coasts of Ecuador and Colombia in search of warmer waters in order to reproduce. In Ecuadorian waters, between 2,000 and 3,000 whales reproduce annually. Despite the fact that strong Ecuadorian laws exist to protect these whales, as they migrate towards other parts of the world, they are in imminent danger of being exterminated due to whaling that is being carried out in contravention to the worldwide ban.

Sea Shepherd points out that whales represent an enormous economic resource due to the whale watching industry on the coasts of Ecuador. In Puerto Lopez, Salinas and Sua (not including the Galapagos Islands) alone, there is an estimated $3 to $7 million dollars of direct and indirect income that can be attributed to 25,000 tourists participating in whale watching each year. In fact, whale watching is the main activity of ecotourism along the Ecuadorian coasts and is helping to revitalize tourism during the summer along the coastline. Therefore, in addition to the whales’ importance in the delicate marine ecosystem, they are vital to the economy of this country.

More:
http://www.seashepherd.org/news/media_070501_1.html



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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-04-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. I've been to Ecuador several times, and speak fluent Spanish
I have also been with government people (cultural/archaeological
types, ministry of the economy, etc.). We just have to accept that
different rules apply to that playing field. There isn't even a
unitary people in that country. The Quechua in the mountains have
completely different language and interests from the Spanish-
speaking city and coastal people, and no one trusts anyone. I've
found the Ecuadoreans (the ones I know, anyway) to be straight and
honest, as opposed to Venezuelans, many, thought not all, of whom I
wouldn't trust with a nickel, and that includes Chávez.

Ecuador has plenty of natural resources, but a startling political
immaturity, as evidenced by the ten or more different governments
that have been in power since I have been in contact with their
government. To state their situation in terms of good (anti-American)
guys and bad (pro-American business) guys is over-simplifying things.


The one generalization that does ring true, at least to the extent
that my experience allows, is that our involvement in their affairs
has done more harm than good. We should just have left it to the Peace
Corps and Doctors without Borders and people like that, and clowns like
Chávez wouldn't be allowed a podium. Instead, their government has gotten
inside promises for deals from Spanish-Speaking lawyers from Kissinger
(as in Henry) Associates, and they don't trust official America one bit.
If that means America as represented by Bush, then I don't blame them, even
though a place where National Museum archaeologists need armed protection
on the way to work because they have jobs isn't a worker's paradise, either.

But these people are no idiots. When I'm there, I get a warm and genuine
reception, and they know perfectly well who I am. It helps that I speak
Spanish and make VERY clear right away that I don't like the Bushies and
the friends at Kissinger Associates any more than they do. They only turn
to Chávez and Castro as a last resort, and they know when they're being
used. But seeing as how, in their view (and they are sadly not far off
the mark), BOTH sides are seeking to use them, for now, they are going
with the side whose use of them will do them more good than our use of
them has been in recent years. I can't say that I blame them, but to say
that they see Chávez or Castro as heroes or saviors is inaccurate at best.
These people, despite their natural resources, are close to penniless, and
they look for the best deal on the table at any time. Chávez is high bidder
at the moment, so he is the big man on campus--for now. In countries like
Ecuador, much as I love those people, it's always just for now.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-04-07 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. DFW, thank you for your perspective on Ecuador. I don't have anything so personal
Edited on Fri May-04-07 08:32 PM by Peace Patriot
to relate--no travel experience, but I belong to an organization that sent a delegate to the World Social Forum in Venezuela last year, and I've been following political/economic developments in Latin America very closely, as well as one can through the very distorted filter of US war profiteering corporate news monopolies, supplemented by alternative news and views (such as www.venezuela.com). What I see is this. Tell me what you think of it:

1. The vilification of Chavez in our corporate media, in lockstep with the Bush State Dept., is an insult to the Venezuelan people, who have repeatedly elected him in highly monitored elections (by the OAS, the Carter Center and EU election monitoring groups); and it is also coming from naked corporate fear of the Bolivarian notions of Latin American sovereignty, self-determination and social justice.

2. Chavez's high-profile criticism of Bush and US policy, and his and the Chavistas' active and impatient socialist goals have empowered EVERYBODY. The new politics in South America (and growing in Central America) is to take no more shit from the US--either of the fascist death squad variety that the US is still sponsoring (and funding with our tax dollars) in Colombia (and has been guilty of in the past) or the Clintonesque World Bank/IMF-global predator "free trade" variety. Country after country has found themselves in a better bargaining position with the US and its corporate rulers than they ever before had. They are actively opposing the murderous US "war on drugs," and asserting their sovereignty over their countries' resources, with fair taxation for the benefit of the people who live there. As Evo Morales has said, "We want partners, not overlords." Evo Morales is a good example of how the democracy/social justice movement in Venezuela has heartened and empowered the one in Bolivia. Rafael Correa is another good example. But more than this, Venezuela's example has given Argentina's people new power, and Brazil's, and Nicaragua's, and Chile's, and Uruguay's. (Uruguay recently rejected Bush's "free tade" offers, and stuck with Mercour. Could they have done that without Venezuela's uppitiness? I don't think so.)

3. The Chavez/Venezuela influence does not stop at example or rhetoric. They have moved on the practical front to help bail Argentina (which was a basketcase of World Bank/IMF interference and profiteering) out of World Bank debt. Argentina is now well on the way to recovery. Venezuela thus creates a healthy trading partner for itself, as well as Brazil and other countries. Venezuela then set up the Bank of the South, to help Bolivia and Ecuador get out from under onerous World Bank debt. And Paraguay has now joined. Further, Venezuela has been active in Mercosur--the So. American trade group--to strengthen regional trade and South Americans' control of their own fate. (There has been discussion, also, of a South American "Common Market" and common currency--to get off the US dollar.)

You are suspicious of Venezuelans--and Chavez--and no doubt Venezuela's own interests and shrewdness comes into it. But if what is in their interest is strong, independent allies in their region, and compatible social programs and other ideas, that benefit everyone, and that help these very poor populations recover from decades of crude exploitation, what is the harm? This is called cooperation. It's what nation states do, each acting in their own interest, and converging on common goods when things are working as they should be working, among democratic countries. I could see potential Venezuelan bullying, way, way down the line, if they become too powerful--although there is not much reason to think that that would happen. Venezuela has two assets right now: oil, and visionary political ideas that are catching fire throughout the continent (a rebirth of Simon Bolivar's great vision of a "United States of South America"). It is using its main natural asset, oil, to help surrounding countries, in a material way. That is both self-interested--and also generous and visionary. It COULD lead to Venezuela, the bully--like the US hegemony after WW II has eventually led to the US bully (after a period of generosity--especially the Marshall Plan in Europe--and visionary internationalism, the UN, etc.) But that is highly speculative. Venezuela is not a bully now, and shows no sign of becoming one. In fact, aside from its oil and its very popular political ideas, Venezuela is quite vulnerable, in some ways, and needs the protection of other South American countries to prevent violent Bushite/rightwing interference (which has been in the planning stages in Colombia, but is being exposed and headed off, I believe, by a new consensus among Latin American countries against such interference).

So, what is the basis of your suspiciousness about Venezuelans? Is it Cuba? But why shouldn't that 40+ year revolution now be integrated into Latin America's economy and society--much the same way that the US revolution was eventually integrated with England the Europe? It was a violent revolution (a quite justified one)--like our own--and very unlike the peaceful, democratic revolutions that are occurring now, but that was long ago. Cuba has been providing doctors (and they have many well-trained doctors due to their free education and medical care system) to South American countries, like Venezuela, where the rich have grossly neglected the needs of the poor. What is wrong with that? What is wrong with Cuba gaining some prestige for good acts? No one is into following the Cuban communist model--but that doesn't mean that some lessons cannot be learned from how Cuba has done things. (They have been much, much better at protecting the environment and managing farm lands in a sensible way than most other countries, anywhere, for instance.)

I am puzzled by your statement about Kissinger Associates. I don't understand it. Kissinger Assoc.'s is advising Ecuador on its dealings with the US? Really, I don't understand it. I'm not sure what you meant. Please explain. I am very interested in the various good and bad forces at work in Ecuador and in South America in general.

Also, do you have contact with the poor and the indigenous--the biggest backers of leaders like Correa, Morales and Chavez? Or is your experience more with the middle class (educated people, people with jobs)? It may be--and it seems to be--that the bulk of society DOES consider these men (and maybe Castro, too) as heroes--heroes of the vast poor majority. But I tend to think that what is really going on is a vast grass roots awakening, that is PRODUCING the leaders that it needs--to achieve democracy and social justice--rather than people being led by "heroes." And I know that, in turn, Chavez in particular has actively sought more citizen participation in politics and government. He knows who saved his presidency and Venezuela's Constitution. It was ordinary people who surrounded Miraflores Palace and demanded the restoration of their legitimate government. Without them--the citizens of Venezuela--the 2002 violent military coup would have succeeded. He is beholden to grass roots groups in the shantytowns and other poor areas who braved tanks and troops and rightwing paramilitary thugs to support him.

So it is more a matter of the people leading (and producing) the leaders, than the leaders leading the people, in my view. As it should be in healthy democracies. And indeed I envy these countries for the convergence that has occurred, between basic political development (such as transparent vote counting), and strong resilient political organization at the very bottom (workers, union and community organizers, peasants, the indigenous--sometimes in alliance with middle class, as in Argentina), and the emergence of leaders of such high caliber--intelligent, well-read, savvy leaders in tune with their people.

Granted, these countries have been decimated by "free trade" and by past fascist corruption on a huge scale, resulting in "it's always just for now." They have to put together social justice systems and sustainable economies almost from scratch, there has been so much looting and repression. This is one reason that I don't have a kneejerk reaction, say, to Lulu's awful corn/soy fuel production scheme, that he recently discussed with Bush. South American leaders sometimes have no options, or only very poor options--and they sometimes have to hedge their bets, when dealing with the powerful North and its corporate predators. But what I see in these OTHER developments--largely inspired by Venezuela--is a serious attempt to get beyond "it's always just for now." To develop education, medical care, social support systems, and thus to develop future innovators, products, businesses, creative thinkers, and prosperity, out of the clay of poverty and misery. Venezuela DOES seem to be thinking big, and long term--and is inspiring others to do so. To get past "it's always just for now," you have to spend some money NOW, and do some strong and creative thinking about the future. Venezuela is six years into the Chavez government. Correa was elected only last year, and doesn't have a good handle on power as yet. It's a great sign that he won the recent Constitutional referendum by some whopping amount of votes (75%?). He is clearly responding to the will of the people, and acting in the interests of the majority, but has a long way to go to implement his program. This may be why the Ecuadorans you spoke to feel so tentative. They have yet to see an improvement, which is understandable. (Correa was elected only about five months ago.) What do you think?
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murray hill farm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-05-07 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Wow, again PeacePatriot!
I am so, so impressed with your understanding and your expression of it. Thanks again.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-05-07 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Peace Patriot, read the Kozloff book in my sig line
if you'd like answers to some of those questions.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-05-07 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. I wish I had the time to reply in depth as this deserves
My day job tends to be 24/7 at times, so I'll do what time and personal experience permit.

The vilification of Chávez is partially (isn't it always?) deserved. His rhetoric is
carefully chosen and hits home with the local equivalent of Evita Perón's descamisados.
But the facts as reported by my friends who live there are that while some social
programs have been undertaken, much more is spent on consolidating an absolute power
regime intended to install Chávez as an absolute dictator for life. Perón had immense popular
support for a while, too, before he was run out of town. Dissent is quashed, and his
friends are getting immensely wealthy while anyone who assumes even the slightest role
of opposition is very healthily discouraged from opening his or her mouth. It is possible
that he can't do anything without placating some silent powers that are the underpinning
of his power, I don't know the place. I am station chief for my little outfit for Europe
and am only sent to Latin America on rare occasions. The only Latin American nations I have
been to are Ecuador, Cuba and Mexico, and Mexico was purely private. Chávez is having the
time of his life, and is a master showman. I'm sure he will at some point be implementing
some real social reform, but my bet is that he won't be doing nearly as much as he could
with Venezuela's oil wealth. He is more interested in the Hugo Chávez show, and revels in
being its star.

Back when I was in college I remember a big "world youth" festival held in East Berlin.
The kids that went there from the west were all idealistic peace-seekers, and the people
putting the event on were all government apparatichiks seeking nothing other than
indoctrinating some Western kids for future "use."

The "dolarización" in Ecuador has produced both benefits and ills. The government there told
me that people had conformed their lives to the hyper inflation that was there before, and
that a stable currency threw many lives out of equilibrium, paradoxical as that may seem. But
the first time I was there, when I saw my pay phone taking 44,320 sucres for the first minute
of a call from Guayaquil to Quito, I knew that their currency wasn't long for this world, one
way or the other.

It may be that Chávez is able to spread enough of Venezuela's wealth around to create a Latin
America beholden to him instead of us. Maybe they'll like serving a master who speaks their
own language instead of one that is Anglo, and one who wants their political debt along with
an economic one, I don't know. This is a work in progress, and things change there in the blink
of an eye.

Bolivia is a case separate from the others. Poor, landlocked, and majority who is pueblo indígeno,
it is no surprise that Morales won the election. It is also no surprise that he has already
backed off some of his intended programs. But to most of the population, he is "one of us,"
and that excuses many failings in that country, run so long by a European-descended elite.
Ecuador is a different story, as there is a broad mixture of very westernized people of ever
racial make-up in the big cities and coastal areas, and many scatterings of native (South)
Americans in the rural areas and, especially in the mountains. The government people I met there
were of all mixes, far more so than in Cuba, where the Europeans ran the place and the
mixed-race/Africans did all the real work. I don't get the impression at all that there is some
vast popular awakening in Latin America. It just seems to me to be the same old same old, with the
usual opaque mixture of good intentions, ego, and corruption there has always been. Like you said,
Correa hasn't been there very long, but unless he shows some kind of political independence,
becoming a vassal of Chávez won't get help his country much more than any of his predecessors.
I wish I could give a better prognosis, but my (admittedly meager compared to some) experience
says "don't hold your breath." There are LOTS of Venezuelans who admire Chávez, but also many
who think he is a clever demagogue who is as corrupt as any who preceded him, just cleverer,
and there are many who think the election results were manipulated--hey if it's OK for the
USA, then it they can't very well whine when it's done by the boys next door, right?

Kissinger Associates is a law firm/trouble shooter for big money interests, mostly, though
not exclusively in the USA. I have seen them try to do stuff on behalf of a corrupt firm
that gets people to invest in Ponzi schemes, and this firm is run from Madrid (and was
nearly run out of Madrid at one point). They tried to get Ecuador to sell some assets for
less than their market value (unsuccessfully, so far), using intimidation as their tactic.

As for my personal contact with the indigenous people, when I was done in Quito, I got to
go out to some of the mountain villages in Ecuador, including the famous Otavalo, whose
street musicians can be found in almost every major city in Europe in the summer. I don't
speak Quechua, but the people I met mostly spoke Spanish, and we got along fine. I found
a much more contented peaceful atmosphere in the mountains than I did in Quito itself, very
possibly because, like in China, so much of the out-of-work people have already migrated to
the cities. Hotels and restaurants (!!) have armed soldiers outside of them so as not to
let ugly incidents happen to scare away much needed tourist and business revenue. They're
right to do so, but it's unnerving all the same. Cuba was unnerving, too, but for the opposite
reason. There, all the soldiers and secret police were to prevent any non-official contact
between the people and foreigners. I got stopped on the street by guys asking me for the time,
and then complimenting me on my Spanish. I got next to no contact with real Cubans, just
government people, either above-board or secret police watching my every step.

So, as for Correa, please keep in mind that I haven't been back there since he took over.
I have to pass on what I think of his progress so far. I'm sorry, but I'm just not impressed
with Chávez except for his street smarts, which are formidable. But don't forget, the odious
Nixon and Reagan both won their second terms in office with huge majorities. It didn't make
them any better in my eyes, although I was in the minority of my fellow Americans at the time.
The basic lay of the political and economic land has yet to change drastically, and the
overall welfare of the population hasn't improved to the point where one can point to huge
progress. As the other poster pointed out, there is almost no middle class in Ecuador. Same
goes for Bolivia. There used to be one in Venezuela, but many of those are heading elsewhere
as they see their country sliding into a left-wing dictatorship à la Ceaucescu, and want out.
Chávez COULD be a real hero, with all that wealth. So far, all I see is his wanting to be a star.
There is huge difference. I hope Correa can manage to keep his own country's well-being in front
of his affinity (to whatever degree it's genuine) for Chávez. It's shame that a small country
with their natural resources can't break free of outside influence long enough to elevate the
standard of living of the whole population. I don't expect Norway overnight, but Ecuador is
one place that has the potential, if only they could break free of political, economic, and
military (Colombian drug lords practically run the northernmost 5% of their territory) interests
from the outside.
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CharmCity Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-04-07 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Excellent post.
I've been there, too -- mi esposo is from Guayaquil. And you're right. It's not a simple place. There is very little "middle class" in Ecuador; most there are struggling. They look for their best deal every day and in every way - the black market is robust. The local governments' corruption is embedded and most with a brain view any government with a jaundiced eye. It is one of the most physically beautiful countries I've ever visited, but the poverty is heartbreaking and ubiquitous.
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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-04-07 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
11. columbia, a bloody, drug producing mess at war for decades is our only real "friend", how typical
Edited on Fri May-04-07 09:30 PM by anotherdrew
we need to pull the hell out of columbia ASAP too, it's time to get out and let the chips fall were they may, nothing we're doing in that shit hole is helping, we might as well just burn the money we send them.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-05-07 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. Ecuador threatens to sue banks for overcharging
Ecuador threatens to sue banks for overcharging
Sat May 5, 2007 1:35PM EDT

QUITO, May 5 (Reuters) - Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa threatened on Saturday to sue private banks that overcharge clients with high interest rates and fees, saying they had a week to start complying.

The widely popular Correa, a leftist former economy minister who blames market-driven policies of past administrations for failing to reduce poverty in Ecuador, has rebuked banks for lending practices he says are abusive.

"I tell them to lower their interest rates and commissions ... If not, the government will sue them," Correa said in his weekly radio address, adding that banks cannot charge clients more than the 14 percent conventional interest rate.
(snip)

Ecuadoreans are highly sensitive to government policy toward banks after millions lost their savings in 1999 when a state-ordered shutdown froze their deposits to stave off a financial meltdown caused by low oil prices.

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN0529572520070505
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