5 GIs dead, 3 missing after Iraq attack

[maddezmom]

Source: AP

BAGHDAD - An attack on a unit of U.S.-led forces patrolling outside the Iraqi capital before dawn left five soldiers dead and three missing, the military said.

The attack on the patrol of seven U.S. soldiers and an Iraqi interpreter soldier occurred near Mahmoudiya, in a Sunni insurgent stronghold about 20 miles south of Baghdad, the military said.

Troops were searching for the three missing soldiers, the military said

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/iraq

[brokensymmetry]

1. A tragedy unfolds.

I hope this ends up better than I expect.

[Nimrod2005]

2. k

[ixion]

3. and see now here is where the Geneva Conventions are not 'quaint'

it's a shame that we tossed those overboard a few years back. :-(

Thanks, Alberto! :puke:

[LynnTheDem]

4. The real shame started when we committed "the supreme crime"

of illegally invading a nation that was no threat to us, hadn't made threats against us, wasn't doing one damn thing against anyone.

Everything from that point on is blowback. And that's going to go on for decades.

[ixion]

8. indeed

I don't think many in this country have realized that yet, either. :-(

[tanyev]

5. Oh, no.

:cry:

[Warren Stupidity]

6. Escalation: more targets of opportunity.

If we get up to vietnam troop levels we can start having vietnam casualty levels to go alongside them.

Actually vietnam with its well foliated semi-tropical regions and with safe havens in the north and to the west provided a much more insurgent-friendly environment than the blistering semi-arid mesopotamian landscape, so vietnam caualty levels are unlikely to occur. However the Iraqis are not going to go away, they are going to stay right where they are, outraged by our arrogant insufferable presence, and they are going to fight us until we get tired of this crap, pack our heavy weapons up, and get the heck out.

[babylonsister]

7. I'd say something snarky about the surge, but I just can't. This is too

sad.:cry:

[Solly Mack]

10. !!!

...

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. My thoughts exactly

[bluerum]

9. "attack on the patrol of seven U.S. soldiers and an Iraqi interpreter soldier"

Hmmmm,,,, the article does not discuss whether the Iraqi was among the dead or captured.

Either way, this smells like the patrol walked into an ambush and the interpreter had some role in it.

Update: Another report has said that the interpreter was among the dead.

on edit: update.

[tabasco]

18. One report on CNN International described it as a "coalition" unit.

One interpreter with a US squad and they call it a coalition unit? That's a stretch by the propaganda machine.

I hope the people holding the soldiers will treat them with humanity.

It would only hurt their cause to harm defenseless prisoners.

[Igel]

32. Huh?

Harming them would hurt their cause among Westerners, holding that harming POWs is a bad thing. The bloodier the torture and execution, the greater the royalties on brisk video sales from Morocco to Indonesia, and the bigger balls all the burqaed gals will think their machos have.

[bluerum]

46. They are no good to anyone dead. In the fine tradition of Rumsfeld, Gonzo,

bush and Rove, they are now bargaining chips. Less than pawns if that is possible. Barter material. Not in the game, but the currency that the players of the game use to place their side bets with.

[alcibiades_mystery]

51. You're nuts - they're likely dead already

These people aren't bargaining. They're crushing the opponents will.

They crush the opponents will by being inscrutable, maddening, brutal, and seemingly irrational. They don't negotiate, they don't use bargaining chips, they don't parlay. They kill as brutally as possible in order to destroy the opponents will to continue. That is all.

[bluerum]

68. "These people"? Do you know who has them? Come on. Lets have it. eom

[alcibiades_mystery]

70. Yes. Sunni insurgents

Most reasonable people understand that "these people" attacking two Humvees, killing 4 Americans, and capturing three other - in the vicinity of Mahmudiyah - are Sunni insurgents. And they have pretty consistently behaved just as I described.

Why, are you under the impression that someone other than Sunni insurgents has taken these soldiers? I have a reasobale basis for my belief that "these people" are Sunni insurgents. It is a Sunni area, and many fights before now happened between US forces and local Sunnis. Do you have any reasonable basis to believe it is NOT Sunni insurgents?

[bluerum]

73. Just asking. BTW - I now read that they are being held captive some

kind of Qaeda group. Do you think that is possible? Maybe the Sunni insurgents you mentioned traded our people for beer and cigarettes? Not that I believe everything I read mind you, and at this point I think anything is possible. The scenario that you describe is one.

However, for all we know, these men are being passed farther up the food chain to someone who has some political and diplomatic clout in the region. To think that insurgents do not see the political value of captives as bargaining tools is to discount the insurgents and their motives in the same way that the administration has been doing for over four years.

[alcibiades_mystery]

74. "Qaeda" groups are Sunni insurgents

The notion that they are being held by some foreign fighters sent by bin Laden is stupid.

Many Sunni insurgent groups in Iraq have taken up the name of "al Qaeda" in some form or other, but they're Sunni insurgents - homegrown - nonetheless.

I do not discount the Sunni insurgents. They actually have a better plan than we give them credit for. "Bargaining" isn't part of it. From a strategic perspective, they're plan has been to remain utterly inscrutable and cause as much consternation and chaos as possible. And that's been a damn good plan. These guys aren't bargaining or exchanging. It's not in the works, unfortunately.

[bluerum]

75. I agree that they are not bargaining from their end. They have nothing to

gain by making more concessions to occupiers. They also have nothing to gain by killing the soldiers. They have a lot to gain by keeping them alive and periodically releasing some information about their well being.

And perhaps bargaining is the wrong word. Diplomatic leverage? Political PR? Tools to sway public opinion and capture public interest?

My sense is that they have more to gain by holding these people hostage and releasing pictures every two or three weeks than by killing them outright.

These soldiers will be essentially abandoned by this mis-administration as casualties of war. Maybe some behind the scenes arm twisting by the US on the Iraqi government and religious leaders. But they are now trophies for their captors.

I also believe that Iran is salivating at the chance of getting some stake in this.

[alcibiades_mystery]

76. Iran wants nothing to do with this

And wouldn't deal with Sunni insurgents in any case, nor would the Sunni deal with the Iranians.

The only thing the Sunnis want to do is make the American occupation more uncomfortable and horrifying to Western observers. We can extrapolate what will become of these unfortunate soldiers from that basic principle.

Many people said it was "crazy" for the insurgents to bomb the UN, the Red Cross, and other agencies. From a Western-centric "PR" perspective, this is no doubt true. But, in fact, the move was genius: it isolated the US from the world, and showed a complete inability to stabilize the country. I think the taking of these soldiers will operate according to the same principles. The "reasonable" PR move would, of course, be to keep them alive. But the reasonable PR move from a Western perspective may not be the tactical move from the Sunni insurgent perspective.

The goal of the insurgents is to create hopelessness, not hope. It is that brutal.

[bluerum]

77. I don't know. I can see how Iran could benefit from brokering a deal to

get these people back home safely. Not going to happen, but they might like to rub bushes nose in the dirt a little.

But, they were soldiers in an armed conflict. They are now prisoners of war. And unfortunately for them any pretense of respecting the Geneva conventions has long since been abandoned.

[tabasco]

56. My guess is you don't even know any Muslims.

Do you disagree with any part of my statement or did you simply pop up to make a stereotyping, racist, anti-Muslim rant?

I don't feel optimistic about the fate of these soldiers but harming them will not help the cause of their captors.

[Codeine]

61. In certain quarters

it will harm their cause, in others it will help it. If that sort of activity had only negative consequences it wouldn't occur as as regularly as it does.

[tabasco]

64. How can it help their cause?

I'm not trying to be contrary, I just don't see how it could help them in the long run to act uncivilized.

Will some group really like it if they harm the soldiers and send them money or something?

If they treat the soldiers humanely, will some group stop supporting them?

I really want to know because I don't see a downside for these people if they treat our guys humanely.

I wish they would realize this. I wish WE would realize this with our treatment of prisoners.

[Codeine]

69. They're shown hurting a "great power."

Young men, especially young men with little hope and even less opportunity who have fallen under the influence of a fundamentalist religion, will respond positively to things you or I would find disturbing or horrible. It's like dumb kids fetishizing violence on sites like Rotten.com or Ogrish.com over here, or serial killer groupies. Ever see the sort of fan mail serial killers get? It's the ultimate expression of the powerless seizing power in the most absolute manner possible.

Some people are fucked up, and the more fucked up the environment the more people end up that way. And if the proliferation of jihadi torture videos over the interwebs is any indication, yes -- this can help their cause.

One hopes they've been captured by a group with more scruples.

[grytpype]

11. Jesus Christ, they wiped out the entire squad!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/12/AR2007051200388.html?hpid=topnews

BAGHDAD (AP) -- Seven U.S. soldiers and an Iraqi army interpreter came under attack Saturday morning during a patrol of a Sunni insurgent stronghold south of Baghdad, leaving five dead and three missing, the military said.

...

Troops who arrived later found five of the soldiers dead. The other three members of the patrol were gone, according to the statement, from Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, the chief U.S. military spokesman in Iraq.

...

Holy moly, the entire squad of 8 men (7 US, 1 Iraqi) is dead or missing.

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. Welcome to the Realities of Counter-Insurgency Tactics

This whole war has been run bass-ackwards.

When the US needed to apply the soft touch, running counter-insurgency small-group tactics, the military instead ran brigade-level sweeps with heavy firepower, alienating the population and swelling the insurgent ranks. When the insurgent ranks were sufficient to run their own company-level operations, the US turns to small-group counter-insurgency tactics, exposing squad-level units to large ambushes.

These people are idiots.

[still_one]

14. The war should NEVER have been run, bass-ackwards or anyway

The one who aren't missing may be the luckey ones

I hope for their safe return, but fear the worse

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. That's true

Nevertheless...

[still_one]

17. I know, if they did it they should have at least done it with the recommended numbers

but even worse than that, you may not remember, but after Saddam fell, the U.N. came in and said they would take over from the U.S. and establish order and a government, and the bush administration effectively told them to jump in the lake

[anotherdrew]

57. I don't think the 'recommended numbers' were available

and really, I think the larger force would just mean more targets

[xchrom]

22. while i firmly believe this war was started for a lie -- it bothers me that our military

leadership seems so unimaginative and unablke to conduct an armed conflict.

who are we graduating from west point and other military colleges that they are unable to do this?

that has nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of this conflict.

and btw -- by way of further clarification -- i am pretty much anti-military and want to see the pentagons budget reduced by much more than a third.

[harun]

39. It is not a war it is an occupation.

Our army is designed to fight wars and does so very well. None of the institutions are geared for the relationship building and cultural sensitivity required to have a successful occupation of Iraq until a transfer of power could occur. It is not a surprise it is a disaster (nor do I think it is a surprise to you). This administration is about the "macho" and being "macho" to the locals doesn't win friends, it makes enemies.

Watched a documentary last night on a U.S. base in the UK where the residents aren't too happy about it and how they operate. If the UK populace feels this way how do you think they feel in the ME?

[saigon68]

23. So True

I have seen this before, and the outcome is always the same.


All you see on TV is squads of heavily armed US infantry with SAWS kicking in doors and throwing old women to the ground.

I guess these "tough guys" suffered a little "payback"

[David__77]

49. Absolutely correct.

But I think that the insurgency would have developed regardless of early tactics employed by the occupation. Keeping to the bases is always the "safe" strategy for an occupation.

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. Bizarre statement from military spokesman

"Make no mistake: We will never stop looking for our soldiers until their status is definitively determined, and we continue to pray for their safe return," Caldwell said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18627335/

The statement starts out with the usual faux threatening "make no mistake," then ends with the rather docile "praying for a safe return." The incoherence is a metaphor for the war as a whole.

[frogcycle]

20. pardon my atheistic cynicism

but it pisses me off royally when someone with responsibility to actually fucking DO something says they are praying about it.

If that's what I wanted, instead of someone playing with beads and mumbling chants I could call for a witch doctor who would at least be entertaining waving chicken bones.

It's fine for people to talk to their god on a personal level if it gives them some sort of inner peace or whatever. But when they use asking for miracles as an excuse for shirking responsibility i get really pissed. that asshole bush said he would pray for the tornado victims! right, big help there.

[Peregrine Took]

37. Yes, but prayer can work wonders. Don't knock it. n/t

[reprobate]

44. Sorry, but a recent hospital based study that was reported right here in 'latest news'

showed absolutely no effect on the health of patients.

The one thing that it showed positive was the placebo effect when the patients knew they were being prayed for.

Of course, if it makes you feel good to pray, then by all means do so. Just don't encourage the substitution of faith based medicine for science based medicine.

[bluerum]

48. Or for genuine political process and diplomacy. Pray on your own time.

While you are in office you work for the people, not your god.

[pokercat999]

50. Actually I saw the "reported" results of a study showing

just the opposite. Patients who were prayed for without their knowledge did no better than those who were not prayed for. Those patients who were prayed for with their knowledge actually did worse (took longer to recover) than the control group. It was thought that having someone knowingly pray for them created "stress" causing them to recover more slowly. Kind of like "white coat fever" causes ones blood pressure to rise during a Doctor's visit.

As far as these soldiers are concerned I want to feel sympathetic but they are in a place they don't belong and I can not accept the "just following orders" defense. I wish they would all come home now, unharmed, but those choosing to remain there will no longer receive my moral support and if I could stop it they would lose my monetary support.

[reprobate]

63. I think if two studies show opposite effects, we can safely say that there is

no proven benefit to prayer in a medical setting.

[bluerum]

47. Your fogot the sarcasm smiley. eom

[Zhade]

55. There is absolutely no evidence to support that assertion.

Hands working usefully are better than hands praying uselessly.

[leftynyc]

59. I don't know about working wonders but,

provided the military is ALSO proactively trying to find these men, it couldn't hurt.

[enki23]

62. agreed. it can be a great way to keep fools busy and out of the way.

unfortunately, most of the fools don't really mean it, and end up getting in the way anyhow.

[leftchick]

19. well, given our treatment of Iraqis I do not hold out hope for these folks

damn. Bring them home! What a waste. :(

[saigon68]

24. As long as profits flow to the "War Criminals"

These young people will be thrown on the trash pile.

Just wait until they try to get benefits a few years from now !!!!

[me b zola]

65. This happened in the same town as Abeer and her family were murdered

Also not far from the town where there was a very similar ambush that resulted in 3 US soldiers (from Abeer's murderers army unit) being taken alive, then were tortured and mutilated.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=873681&mesg_id=873681


:(

[MidwestTransplant]

21. Doesn't a group of 7 soliders going off on their own sound like a small force

to be isolated from immediate backup?

[Warren Stupidity]

27. Petraeus is big on this tactic.

His strategy is to put small outposts all over insurgent friendly regions, getting the troops out of the big bases (those 14 permanent huge military bases that are why we invaded to begin with) and in among the people they are supposed to be pacifying. One obvious consequence of this strategy is, as I noted above, many more targets of opportunity. Lots of small unit patrols, lots of relatively isolated outposts.

I see that Fallujah is completely pacified after our succesful siege and levelling of a few years back.

[tabasco]

28. Yes, it does.

The rest of the platoon and company should have been in a position to respond quickly, but that is how it is supposed to be done. The increasing loss of good officers and NCO's may have had something to do with this awful loss. Our military has been greatly weakened by the neocon corporate mafia.

[Grandrose]

25. So terribly sad....

and this Mothers Day five or more families will suffer, along with all those that have fallen before! My deepest sympathy to each and every family!:cry:

[PuraVidaDreamin]

26. Isn't there anyway we can stop this madness?

[reprobate]

45. Sure there is. Impeachment. It's not just the 'I' word anymore.

Write your congress critter. Write your local paper. Talk to people on the street.

Spread the word that Americans will no longer put up with criminals in our capital anymore.

And don't forget to send Gonzo a little not of thanks for turning the Justice dept into the American Gestapo.

[The_Casual_Observer]

29. 6 so far? Those insurgents are really getting desperate! Last throes

for sure!

[acmavm]

30. I think we should offer a trade, our soldiers for two or three high-profile

neocons.

[glitch]

53. I love it. Only make it 9 or 10

Neocons admit there isn't a 1-1 relationship with humans, that's why they need 3 or more of them to debate 1 pseudo-liberal with his mic cut, even on their own tv shows.

[RL3AO]

31. An entire fucking squad. Get the hell out of Iraq.

[IndianaGreen]

33. Congress can end the war now by not acting on a supplemental funding bill

Bush already vetoed the supplemental that Congress sent him earlier. Congress is under no obligation to submit another bill. Bush's supplemental is DOA. In effect, by its inaction, Congress would be defunding the war.

Unless the Congress defunds the war, be prepared to see more dead and wounded in this needless and wasteful conflict which was launched to advance the economic interests of a few.

[mw]

34. We'll have another 1500-2000 dead troops before shithead leaves in 2009

They're dying for nothing except as sacrifices to Bush's hell-god of stubborn lunacy.

[Ilsa]

35. There is still alot of confusion, per msnbc, on whether the

translator was killed or is one of the missing. Ive also heard killed, not five, but it doesn't surprise me that we haven't gotten the correct story yet. I hope no one else is hurt while searching for the missing soldiers.

We've stayed past our welcome.

[Peregrine Took]

36. I wonder how many bike rides the "decider" will take this weekend? This

stuff doesn't affect him in the slightest.

[gulliver]

38. All to save Republican face.

Bush, the remaining Bush-lovers in Congress, and the 30% of the population who support Bush are keeping the soldiers there for one reason: Bush damaged our country, and Republicans cheered him on. Now Bush and the Republicans will do anything to keep from admitting they are country-damaging idiots. The troops have to stay, because Republican "Americans in Name Only" are cornered politically through their own folly.

[Az_lefty]

42. absolutely right! Their too cowardly too admit to mistakes.

:grr:

[glitch]

54. Even posing with the Queen won't get them over this one. Filthy monsters, how I despise them.nt

[harun]

60. I think you summed it up. Only reason to stay now is to save Repug face.

Simple as that. They are the treasonous ones.

[Barrett808]

40. So will the captured troops be emasculated and their bodies dumped?

Or will they be paraded on video and then executed?

[MarinCoUSA]

41. And NPR reports the attack and then talks about "3 missing people"-

A fu@k!!g disgusting!

How do you ask the last man to die for a mistake?

End the occupation now!

[gulfcoastliberal]

43. Our modern White Mans Burden

That's the I whink of those who argue we "need to stay" in order to force them into our way of living. Instead of the Philipines, it's Iraq. And those who say we've gotta stay there to "make things right for those people" have the exact same mentality as those missionaries who sought to "civilize" forein cultures.

* not a hit/n/run, but I am literally on my way out.

[anotherdrew]

58. please, let's get with the times, it's the white man _and woman's_ burden...

lol

[Brigid]

52. Get. The. Troops. Out. NOW.

They are being killed and captured, while the Iraqi government goes on vacation for two months. :grr:

[Worst Username Ever]

66. 43 in 12 days. So sad.

[Barrett808]

67. AP: Hunt ongoing for missing troops in Iraq

Hunt ongoing for missing troops in Iraq
By KIM GAMEL, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD - U.S. and Iraqi troops searched house-to-house and combed fields with their bare hands Saturday after American troops and their Iraqi interpreter came under attack in the notorious "triangle of death" south of Baghdad, leaving five dead and three missing.

The military said the patrol was struck in a pre-dawn explosion near Mahmoudiya, about 20 miles south of Baghdad — an al-Qaida area where two U.S. soldiers were found massacred after disappearing at a checkpoint nearly a year ago.

A nearby unit heard the blast and the search was launched after communication could not be established with the patrol, the military said. Shortly after the blast, a drone observed two burning vehicles.

An emergency response unit arrived at the scene and found five members of the team dead and three others missing.

Checkpoints were established throughout the area, while helicopters and jets buzzed overhead. AP Television News footage showed Iraqi soldiers picking through cattails and other weeds as they searched fields and canals for clues.

(more)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070513/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

[pettypace]

71. forgive the morbid prognosticating

So far this year, 391 fatalities in 132 days = 2.96/day.

At that rate, the 5000 figure will be reached on 11-4-08, a week before the election.

(Current number is 3394. 1606/2.96 = 542 days. 5/12/07 + 542 = 11/4/08).

[maddezmom]

72. Thousands look for 3 GIs missing in Iraq

Thousands look for 3 GIs missing in Iraq 1 hour, 35 minutes ago



BAGHDAD - The U.S. military on Sunday confirmed that an Iraqi interpreter was killed along with four U.S. soldiers in an attack south of Baghdad, leaving three American soldiers missing.

A U.S. statement Saturday said only that a patrol of seven American soldiers and an Iraqi army translator had been attacked and that five people were killed and three were missing. It was unclear whether all the missing were Americans.

Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, the chief U.S. military spokesman in Iraq, told reporters Sunday that the interpreter was among the dead.

He also said about 4,000 American forces were involved in the search for the three missing troops in the notorious "triangle of death" south of the capital.

He said the bodies of the three slain soldiers and the Iraqi interpreter had been identified, but the military was still working to identify the fifth.

more:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070513/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq;_ylt=AnfTVwteBT6MbxpRmbaem8es0NUE

[ohio2007]

78. Ambushed by AQ wearing Iraqi army uniforms

.....
gunmen wearing Iraqi army uniforms had stopped a US patrol comprised of three Humvees at a fake checkpoint before attacking the soldiers, an Iraqi army source said.
http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=148935&version=1&template_id=42&parent_id=18

why, that s not playing fair.

[Socal31]

79. Christ.

Get our boys out of Iraq. Please.