Dell Hell: Computer Giant Faces Consumer Lawsuit

[RamboLiberal]

Source: ABC News

Dell is the No. 2 computer seller in the United States, but now some say the technology giant is ripping off its customers.

New York state Attorney General Andrew Cuomo has filed a lawsuit against Dell, accusing the company of deceptive, fraudulent and illegal business practices.

"You can have aggressive marketing, and if you go too far it's consumer fraud," Cuomo said Tuesday. "In our opinion they went too far, and this is consumer fraud. They offered a product, a service that they didn't deliver."

Part of the suit claims that though Dell gave the impression of an "award-winning service" available to consumers "24 hours a day, seven days a week," consumers faced "nightmarish obstacles" to get help and technical service for their computers. Cuomo said New York had received 700 complaints about Dell -- more than the number of complaints for any other related subject.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Technology/story?id=3179394&page=1

[alcibiades_mystery]

1. Maybed they'll go after the follow-up sales force masquerading as technicians

known as the "Geek Squad" next.

What a pack of buffoons those people are.

[iconoclastic cat]

3. Hey, I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that!

They have a deal with Best Buy that apparently entails telling everyone that the only solution is to buy a new computer--at least, that's what happened the two times I took my computer in for repairs at Best Buy. I've never heard anyone else mention this, though.

[alfredo]

9. I'd rather have red hot needles shoved under my

fingernails than to shop at Best Bye.

[ixion]

20. yep, agreed

I'll take the needles.

[alfredo]

34. They must give classes on ignoring customers.

[tblue37]

56. Actually, I am sure they do.

I read an article on Salon a few years ago by a computer tech support guy for some company (I don't remember which one), and he said they were trained to get you off the phone as quickly as possible, not to help you. If they took the time to try to help you, it slowed down their rate, and they got demerits for it.

[alfredo]

60. That becomes even more important when you are charged for

tech support.

[B3Nut]

23. That's what our HR director was told by Worst Buy.

I'm one of the IT guys where I work, and I told him to bring his PC to my office. I got rid of all the viruses and spyware and got it running like a top. It wasn't difficult. IMHO Best Buy ruined the Geek Squad...they were a good tech org before they got bigboxed.

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

[DotGone]

36. Same thing here

One of my professors thought she lost her almost completed PhD thesis when she got hit with a virus. Geeky Squad people told her the computer was toast and she needed to buy another. She spent $700 for a new system. When I found out, I told her to give me her old system. Ran some antivirus and antimalware programs and recovered her thesis. She was not pleased with the GS people at all. Oh yeah, got an A for that class.

[Cronus Protagonist]

38. I hope you taught her how to do backups as well :) (n/t)

[DotGone]

39. Yeah she keeps a USB flash drive around her neck now :) n/m

[jollyreaper2112]

66. I hate crappy software and yet I am grateful

Being able to grok such silliness gives me something for society to value me by. Thank FSG it comes easy to me. :)

[ryanmuegge]

71. You aren't kidding about the "Geek Squad."

[CTLawGuy]

73. those guys are idiots

my laptop screen one day stopped holding up at the hinge--meaning that if you opened the screen, it would fall backwards until it almost popped off rather than standing up at a 90 degree angle.

The hinge was broken. I took it to Geek Squad. They told me that I would probably need to get a new screen or a new laptop. I didn't do that thank goodness. Instead, my dad and I opened the front and realized that the screws holding the hinge together had literally ripped apart. (never seen such a thing in my life)

All we needed to do was find 4 new screws of the same size and it works good as new.

[Greyskye]

79. Barf Buy blows

It used to be one of my fave stores - especially since one went in just down the block from my office, right on the way home from work. I bought a plasma TV from them on 'Black Friday' (Uggh, NEVER doing that again!), and was told that there was a 60 day return policy. What it actually turned out to be, was a 30 days after Xmas, in addition to the regular 30 day policy. Which is LESS than 60 days!

When the BB plasma turned out to be not-so-hot, with picture quality and functionality issues, as well as some out-and-out problems needing repair arose, I bought a different plasma over the Internet. Unfortunately, this one was stolen in transit. By the time a new one was shipped, and I was able to borrow a vehicle to return the original plasma, it was close to the end of the '60 day' return period. Or so I thought. Since BB had started the countdown of the 30 day return policy 30 days after Xmas, we tried to return it a couple days to late. They would not take it back, and I was stuck with TWO friggin' plasmas. :(

We ended up donating it (after it was repaired and fully functional) to a silent auction fundraiser at the school my son goes to. We get a tax write off of 85% of our cost next year, the school made a nice bundle, and the folks that bought it got an OK deal and the satisfaction of supporting their kids school.

But no more Barf Buy for us!!!

[mainegreen]

98. How Best Buy's Geek Squad is a Microsoft Premier Partner is beyond me.

I can't imagine to many MCSEs or MCSAs among them. Hell, I'd be surprised if any store had more than 1 A+ certified techie!

[Zandor]

2. Dell service sucks

Get transferred a few times and still no one knows what the hell they're talking about.

I hope these frauds are put out of business.

[slackmaster]

5. Dell service for corporations does not suck

Every time I've called Dell for an RMA on a dead hard drive or other part, or on-site service on a server or storage device, the service has been excellent.

Dell service sucks at the consumer level. You are pretty much on your own.

HP service sucks at all levels.

[Renew Deal]

6. Dell sucks at the business level too.

I work on computer systems. I have had nothing but trouble with Dell business support. Other companies (HP, IBM, and others) have been light years better, especially with servers.

[slackmaster]

7. I work on servers and mass storage

I work for a corporation that owns several million dollars worth of enterprise-level equipment.

I don't do desktop or laptop support, so I can't say how that is.

[billbuckhead]

45. That explains a lot

[slackmaster]

53. I'll bet you think I wear a beanie cap now

BTW - I don't own the company, I just work there. And I am not the only DUer who does.

[billbuckhead]

85. I bet you're not the only one

[slackmaster]

101. Yes, that's what I said

:dunce:

[billbuckhead]

102. You went from a beanie to a dunce hat

:rofl:

[Lance_Boyle]

13. Not in my experience.

Dell's support for my organization has been stellar. But businesses pay a premium for that support, on every system purchased. I believe a similar level of service is available to non-corporate customers, for a price.

Now Toshiba support... that sucks festering pus-encrusted balls.

[Xithras]

70. Dell for business is good if you're near a center or have DC techs on your staff.

Our datacenter has Dell certified techs, so we don't need to deal with their techs. We had a Poweredge server lose an onboard PERC controller just a few weeks ago, our tech diagnosed the problem in 20 minutes, and with one phone call a new mainboard was delivered to our location at 8AM the following morning. In another case, a troublesome server with a transient disk issue was replaced in its entirety at no charge...we called them at 4PM, worked out that the server should be replaced in about 15 minutes, had the new server on location at 11AM, and had the replacement in production by 3PM. I should note that all of our systems exist in redundant clusters, so none of our Dell hardware failures ever impacted our live services.

The trick with Dell support, or any companies business support for that matter, is to be proactive within your organization. When our servers go down, our intent is that we support ourselves. We simply see Dell support as one tool we can utilize to accomplish that goal. The people who tend to have problems are the reactive users, who don't want to do any support or repair work themselves and want Dell to come out and fix everything. No support contract, from any company, is ever going to match the responsiveness and reliability of having an in-house staff capable of addressing these kinds of issues. It's also important to make sure that your architecture is redundant enough to permit a server to go offline for an extended period without shutting down the services the datacenter is designed to support.

[alcibiades_mystery]

8. HP got me a new motherboard for my laptop inside a week

They paid for FedEx, and the whole thing was done faster than I could have imagined.

HP service, in my ONE experience, was fabulous.

I even had a great conversation with the on-phone service guy. Of course, I was thoroughly comfortable walking through the steps, since I play around with hardware all the time. I can see how it's more confusing for people with less knowledge.

[slackmaster]

16. HP took over 12 hours to dispatch a technician on a 4-hour service contract

I got the Dogbert's Indian Tech Support runaround. Finally their call center coverage switched to Costa Rica, and I got immediate help.

Thank you, please come again soon.

[Renew Deal]

4. I live in NY and I can tell you that Dell is horrible.

I'm very excited about this and I wish the AG the best.

[alfredo]

11. Don't forget, Michael Dell is a big time bushie.

[President Jesus]

51. and here is the proof:

http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Michael_Dell.php

[alfredo]

61. I noticed Kay Grainger is on his list. She is so anti veteran, a Republican

friend of mine went to work for her Democratic opponent.

[rmgarrette64]

10. So who is good?

I'm looking for a laptop. I don't need anything fancy, this is mostly for word processing. I would prefer built-in wireless, but that's not a requirement. I'm looking in the sub-$1000 range as well. I was looking at Dell, to be honest, but wondered if folks have other recommendations.

Oh, and my husband is good with computers, so tech support is not the highest priority.

Thanks,

R. Garrett

[B3Nut]

24. I'm happy with my new HP

The newest HP's have what has to be the nicest trackpad I've ever used, it's nice and smooth and more precise than others I've used. Nice glossy screen too, and it's compact. Could stand more battery life, but you can get extra-capacity batteries.

They're really nice, I really enjoy mine, a dv6225us. 15" widescreen, AMD dual-core chip, and was $850, and sometimes you can find them even cheaper.

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

[Lance_Boyle]

35. Dell Inspiron w/ AMD Turion X2, 1GB DDR2, 80GB HD - $549

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/odg/hip_msn?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

;-)

[MUSTANG_2004]

108. My HP laptops are great, but the service is TERRIBLE

The laptops themselves are fine, but the customer support is horrible. Recently called on one that wouldn't boot, with bad sectors on the hard drive. The tech rep was obviously in a third world call center, and his English was awful - I had to repeat everything 2 or 3 times, and have him do the same. He finally decided I needed a new hard drive, and said one would be sent "within 30 days". I made him switch me to a US call center and tried to escalate it to get it sooner and was told if it hadn't arrived in 10 days, I could call back and they would see about escalating it. I was on the phone with them for HOURS on this.

IMO, a warranty is almost worthless if the fix takes 30 days.

To top it off, I found the fix on my own after wasting all that time on the phone with Pakistan or wherever they put the call center. The fix was so simple I'm not sure why HP couldn't suggest it: An XP CD wouldn't clean up the bad sector, but a Vista one did.

All that said, I still really like my HP laptop, just not the HP support department. It's fast and well designed (all the ports/plugs are in exactly the right spot). Of the six laptops I've had, my two favorites are the HP's. But if I ever have to call support again, I think I'll just skip it and buy another...

[FatDave]

25. Your geeky nephew

Technical support is pretty much horrendous throughout the industry. Buy whatever brand you want and have a savvy friend or relative handle your support. Just be willing to bribe them, because they're probably sick of being everybody's pro bono computer technician.

[tblue37]

57. I have a computer geek friend--a former student--

whom I pay when I have problems. I pay him the going rate, but I trust him completely. Besides, I would rather the money I spend go to someone I know and like.

[Solon]

78. Oh HELL NO!!!!! Let the Geeky relative/friend, BUY the computer for you...

I speak from experience, I don't give a flying fuck what "brand" people will buy, all the consumer models, of all brands, fucking suck, and make tech support for your Geeky friend a nightmare. As I told all my relatives, if you want a new computer, let me buy the damned thing for you, I'll buy the parts, and put it together myself, just LET ME DO IT!

My own computer is built by me, and I can take apart and put it back together inside of an hour, but trying to add a simple hard drive to a fucking pre-built, older Gateway, a Dell, or even an HP can take me hours. I've encountered pretty much everything you can think of, from heatsinks GLUED to the damned CPU to cases you can't even open without a damned crowbar, or use some fucked up proprietary way to open that takes a half hour to figure out because NO ONE keeps the damned manual for these things.

[FatDave]

84. I agree, Solon, however...

Hey man, I'm with you, it's all about newegg.com to me. I'm typing this on a 2Ghz Athlon X2 w/ 2G RAM, 500G SATA HD, and a 256M GeForce 7600GT. Running Ubuntu Feisty, so I don't have to pay the MS tax. Total price ~$900, including stuff not mentioned (DVD drives, case, PSU, everything but monitor really). I build systems for a handful of family and friends.

But the poster I replied to was looking for a laptop, and laptops don't follow an open architecture, so guys like you and me can't really build them. I'd love to stand corrected on that though.

[Solon]

104. Give me a mini-itx or equivalent motherboad, a soldering iron, and some time...

and I can probably make it happen. ;) I was referring to desktops and DVRs, though, I should read all the posts I respond to. Actually, this brings up a point on DVRs. A while ago my mom said she wanted a Tivo-like device, but without the monthly fees. In her words: "I don't see why they are charging monthly for me to do something I've been doing with VCRs for over 20 years now." I told her to give me about 200 bucks and I can make her a DVR with pretty much all, actually more, functionality than TIVO, and without the monthly fee.

Right now, after paying my Sister's wedding, she and my dad are broke, so maybe within the year. By the way, I only go to newegg.com to compare prices, I don't need to shop there, I have a local place, called Computer Pro, that I shop at. I need to upgrade my computer, I have an AMD AthlonXP 1.25 GHz, with 256 MB of RAM and a Nvidia GeForce MX4000 128MB Graphics card, with two hard drives a 30Gig and 160gig. I also run Ubuntu Feisty, with Beryl window manager, and, even on my severely aged system, it runs like a dream.

The only thing recent I did to upgrade is the 160 gig hard drive and also had to, about a week ago, replace the power supply, the fan motor on my old one burnt out, and it heated up, QUICK! At first I didn't even realize there was a problem, till I noticed complete silence from my computer. I then touched the top of the case, and it was damned near hot enough to fry an egg on it! I shut down my computer and unplugged it. I then took the power supply out and then plugged it back in, after cleaning the fan, hoping it was just jammed. At least the CPU fan still worked, but the power supply fan was shot. It was a 300 Watt power supply, that cost me 30 bucks when I bought it, so I figured, no big deal, the Computer place was closed, I'll go the next day. Next day I go in, and all they had was 350 Watt power supplies for 50 bucks!

Oh well, at least now my computer can, theoretically, run the latest video cards. Just need a new motherboard with an PCI-E slot rather than AGP.

I'm actually kind of torn right now, once I upgrade, completely, I'm going to have a "usable" computer from my current motherboard and graphics card. I'm debating between putting a video capture card in it, and giving it to my Mom as a PVR, with Ubuntu/MythTV on it, or giving it to my young nephew, in a child proof case of my own design, as a learning device, with some of the learning programs available in the repositories. Actually, one of my problems is, do I want the computer to be a desktop at all, I was thinking about a multi-functional PVR of my own, using blue tooth, and maybe, later on, an HDTV, to turn it into a livingroom computer/game/multimedia device. Maybe, I'll make a dumb terminal for general computing use, and use it for movies on my regular TV at first, most likely with a wireless network.

[Endangered Specie]

93. Acceptable bribes include:

Money (universal)
Food (something that isn't microwaved but home cooked)
Sex (I met my first girlfriend because she had computer trouble and knew me)

[Giant Robot]

100. Here's a story

My sister-in-law's son is an IT person in some capactity (sorry don't know that much about that kind of stuff to give a better description). At the company he worked for, there was some computer problem that he needed to attend to. The employee whose computer it was told their boss, and the boss said he would call the IT people. The employee saw the boss dial a local pizza place and ordered pizza. Employee asks, I thought you were going to call technical support. Boss, that's how I get them motivated. So bribes are important.

[bennie]

32. My company used to swear by Dell, but now we're all HP.

Dell began screwing up orders, had poor support, just too much trouble.

[shrike]

55. Me, too

First computer ever was a Dell. Five years, never a problem. Support was great, way back then.

Now I have an HP laptop. DH and I bought computers from a local guy and are very satisfied with them. Unfortunately, no local techo-geeks build laptops.

[Greyhound]

68. Dell was, once upon a time, the gold standard for customer service, then they moved

into the mega-corporation model, laid off hundreds of the workers that made them good, particularly software programmers (Dells drivers were the best and primary reason for their machines dependability), replaced them with those legendary genius programmers from India, outsourced all of their customer support staff, and turned into the turds we see today.

"Dude, You got Delled!"

[zanne]

105. Am I the only one who's going to say it?

I have a Dell. When I call for technical help, I get somebody with an Indian accent so thick I can't figure out what they're saying. I have no idea how good they are; I can't understand what they're saying.

[ProudDad]

41. I've had great luck

with my last 5 HP desktop and laptop computers.

Dell is a bush supporter -- BIG TIME.

All tech support for consumers SUCKS -- it's all been outsourced to India...

[Greyhound]

69. For laptops, I've had the best experiences with Toshiba. Thinkpads used to

be almost worth the inflated prices, but since they became Lenovo I'm told to avoid them like the plague.

[Canuckistanian]

91. We have all Toshiba laptops at work

It was a good decision. They WORK and take a beating, especially in a tech environment.

Sales reps remark on the screen quality.

[Greyhound]

94. I'm using one right now. It's been a real workhorse, taken a couple

of hard drops and still works great. The only problem we've had is that one of the harman/kardon speakers blew. Oh, and windoze XP sux, but that doesn't have anything to do with the computer.

[Egnever]

72. Toshiba and Acer are both decent choices

when it comes to laptops.

I would stay far away from Hp Dell or Compaq.

[DamnYank]

12. About time

My wife got ripped off by Dell to the tune of several hundred dollars. She tried to get a laptop fixed that was out of warranty and totally dead. They quoted a fee of several hundred dollars to look at it and fix it. We decided to go for it since the machine was 18 months old and this was a lot cheaper than a new one. The laptop was supposed to be returned within 14 days, but after 14 days they hadn't even looked at it. My wife is self-employed and needs her computer. After lots of calls (always to India) she got it back after more than a month. It worked for two hours then died again. At this point we couldn't wait any longer so decided to buy a new machine. They jerked her around on refunding anything, although she paid for repairs that weren't made. She finally challenged it through her credit card company which got her a partial refund for components, but not for the labor.

I'm a systems admin in a place that has bought lots of Dells. Suffice it to say that everything (servers, PC's, etc) in my shop purchased since then has come from other manufacturers. I will never buy another Dell product and I will never allow it for any work environment over which I have authority. So they are already paying the price.

[MindPilot]

14. I've found Dell business support to be pretty much top-notch.

If I need a part, they generally have it in my hands within 24 hours. If I don't feel like fixing it myself, there's a tech on-site the next day. Their website is excellent regarding the availability of drivers and updates.

I don't have any point of reference for their consumer-level support.

[Kagemusha]

15. Consumer level is exactly where the problem lies.

That's what I've heard through family. Organizational support is excellent. Consumer support is Stygian.

[candice]

46. After all the complaints about Indian tech support...

Dell left India for its technical support for companies but retained them for for customers--or so I read in the paper after my misadventure with Indian "support." As a result of the ridiculous experience I had with India--I had ordered a top-of-the-line desktop that arrived intermittently DOA, and the Indians did not have the manual, or the computer I had nearby--I kept citing the page in the manual that defined the flashing LEDs but this was beyond their comprehension. Nice, but clueless, hardly of the caliber of the American tech support from Texas I had talked when I purchased my first Dell laptop.

Anyway, after wasting lots of time, I did get a new machine (but not on the day it was promised), and the entire process was absurd. I'm glad it happened because my next computer purchase was definitely not going to be a Dell. I purchased an Apple PowerBook G4 laptop, vastly superior to any Dell I've ever had, and my favorite consumer purchase ever.

[spooky3]

64. Apple's service is generally excellent, especially compared

to its competition's. I have owned Macs since they first came out. My only complaint is that laptops are not as reliable AND you have to mail them to a service center, resulting in your not having use of them for 1-2 weeks, even with a "rush" on the job. It is great to be able to go into a retail center and get help at the "Genius Bar." But you do pay more for Apples and I have paid for the service contracts.

[Nomad559]

80. Apple's service is generally excellent

Employees offer mixed reactions to Apple corporate life
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=974

Another employee remarked on the lack of consumer focus in the workplace.

"There is a definite lack of emphasis on customers," said the employee, who holds a senior management position. The employee wrote that there is "a significant fear factor perpetuated of the CEO" by "empire building dinosaurs who operate in antiquated modes and only promote their favorites." The same employee said it's a company policy "not to take notes in meetings," which can make it "quite daunting" to try to operate under such "impossible circumstances."

Meanwhile, a product manager stationed at Apple's home-base in Cupertino sums up Apple as the average conservative company, which works its employees "to the bone" without enough compensation. "When I started it felt like Apple knew my name and what I did," the employee wrote, "but now am nothing more than employee XXX."

[spooky3]

81. interesting--check out the Consumer Reports reader surveys

about tech. support. The results are generally not positive for computer companies but Apple comes out best, IIRC. I think you need a subscription to see the full results (see bottom of the page for a summary):

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/easy-computer-repair-606/overview/index.htm

On edit:

from the more than 12000 respondents to the CR survey: For laptops, Apple had the best rating - 81 out of 100. The NEXT HIGHEST competitor had a 66. For desktops, the difference was even greater; Apple had the highest-- an 81, and the NEXT highest competitor, 56 out of 100. Definitely not perfect, but much better than the competition.

Also notice this paragraph near the beginning of the article from which you quoted a few employees (this is why you have to be careful about anecdotes):

"For the most part, employees were upbeat on Apple's workplace experience, citing corporate diversity and shared passion for the company's products as some of the pluses."

Please note also that we were discussing the quality of technical support service, not whether it was or was not a good company to work for, which is the thrust of the article you linked.

[noamnety]

17. On April 5 I posted this:

I sent my dell laptop for repairs a couple of weeks ago

Instead of mailing it back to my house, they returned it to an army post of several thousand people - with the wrong city and zip code for that post, not addressed to me personally, but rather to ATTN: US ARMY.


It wasn't actually fixed though, so I had to send it back. This time, I taped a piece of paper to the laptop itself, that said "For the love of God, don't return me to US Army, ATTN: US Army. Send me to (my home address)."

I highlighted it.

Yesterday I got an email saying it was shipped back to me. I checked the tracking number online. Sure enough, it is going to US Army (wrong city), ATTN: US Army.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=6383689#6384593

Since then, it went to "repairs" a third time, was shipped back (to the US Army) a third time, worked for one day, and was dead again. They said they were going to ship me a brand new laptop because I was pissed off and said after two months of not repairing this one, I'm tired of driving all over town to drop a dead laptop off and pick it up again every week at DHL.

Haven't seen the new replacement yet.

Been trying to get a working computer from my extended warranty (that I paid for) since MARCH now.

[onehandle]

18. Dell is a Huge GOP supporter.

And Michael Dell is a total dick.

[Nomad559]

30. And Apple Is a HUGE GOP supporter

Campaign Finance:
APPLE COMPUTER, INC.
http://cal-access.ss.ca.gov/Campaign/Committees/Detail.aspx?id=1012686&view=contributions&session=2003


And Steve Jobs Is a Thief

Woz Spills The Beans On Apple
http://www.digital-lifestyles.info/display_page.asp?section=business&id=3821
Woz confirmed that Jobs did rip him off in the early days when Jobs got him to redesign the circuit board for the classic arcade game, Breakout.

:)

[fidgeting wildly]

37. lol!

You're right. That is HUGH!!!1!!!111!1 :eyes:

[onehandle]

40. So damn "HUGH!!!1!!!111!1"

Rush uses a Mac too.

I guess Bill Clinton sleeping in Steve Jobs' home was just an elaborate ruse.

And Michael Dell is still a total dick.

[Nomad559]

43. And Michael Dell is still a total dick

and what are you Earl? ... A Pervert

Steve Jobs Is a Thief

Rush Limbaugh - Mac OS X Tiger Rocks

:)

[candice]

48. Al Gore is a member of Apple's Board of Directors...

Jobs was a big Kerry donor while Gates gave lots of money to Bush 04 (not too bright to still be supporting Shrub at that point, but definitely paying to continue the monopoly).

[Nomad559]

52. Jobs was not a donor

to Kerry In 04

http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Steve_Jobs.php

:)

[onehandle]

54. Campaign advisors contribute through their time.

Which in this case would have been worth much more than a few thousand bucks.

Jobs, Buffett to advise Kerry on the economy
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/05/04/MNG486F9RD1.DTL

[candice]

107. I did read an article comparing Jobs and Gates for Kerry/Bush

...it was in a glossy business mag prior to the election. Gates was a big GOP donor and Jobs a big Demo donor. I live in Silicon Valley and have worked for Apple as a contractor several times (and love Apple products...my first was a Macintosh SE c. 1989. All of my Apple machines are still working today.

[Straight Shooter]

19. Well, yippee. This put a cloud in my sky. I just ordered a Dell laptop.

However, the service rep is local and is excellent. I've used him for upgrades to my Dell desktop. This is a small town, so local service is a major plus.

I'm not really worried about the service end of it, but I only got a Dell because they don't cram a lot of useless crapware in their system and I've been pleased with my desktop. Their screens are also quite good.

I know Michael Dell is a bushie, but, to my knowledge, Dell's base is in Austin, Texas, and so I like to think that I'm helping to keep Democrats employed :)

[SayWhatYo]

21. Kind of off topic, but they treat their employees like shit too...

In fact, I believe most of the employees are just temporary workers that they get rid of after a certain period of time so that they do not have to put out any money for benefits.

[CountAllVotes]

22. sheer crap computers!

About 4 years ago my friend bought a new Dell laptop and within 6 mos., the whole thing, mother board, HD and speakers were all dead & gone. Warranty: Expired of course

In the meantime I'm still going on my old ThinkPad here and have yet to have to do anything to it. :thumbsup:

Too bad that IBM sold out the best thing they ever made, the ThinkPad (now Lenovo hell). :(

:kick:

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

26. I love my ThinkPad

I work at IBM, so of course they come for free :)

I do have two Dell laptops at home, one which is not used due to a dead hard drive. While I have not yet needed customer support for tech issues (I'm pretty good with computers and do a lot of stuff myself), I have had major issues with Dell Financial Services. I posted about my problems in the Lounge a couple of days ago.

[Tempest]

28. ThinkPads are the best

I was a computer tech for 23 years and have worked with every single laptop that was ever made, and continue to do so as a hobby.

Hands down and without question, ThinkPads are the most reliable and best made I've ever came across.

Back in the 80s I convinced a Fortune 500 insurance company to ditch their Toshiba brand for ThinkPads. The company relied heavily on laptops for field work. Help Desk calls on laptop related issues dropped 75% in the first 3 months and 90% after 6 months.

[Pavulon]

86. I will buy Dell over communovo

any day. IBM t equipment is crap.

[Tempest]

99. I hope you never need tech support from Dell

IBM's tech support is top notch.

[Pavulon]

112. IBM' s is fine Communovo, not so much

My experience has been with dell enterprise (tam) and my personal gear. Never had problems getting what I needed.

HP has horrible enterprise service. IMHO.

Lenovo machines are overpriced and do not hold up as well as they used to.

Just my opinion.

[kineneb]

49. love mine, too

ancient TP 600e, which is running along just fine on Kubuntu Linux (a version of Ubuntu). Am now working on "upgrading" to a T30...it will be better than my current desktop, also running Linux (SuSE 9.1).

Was also looking at used Dell laptops, but after reading up on the consumer reviews, went back to the Thinkpads.

[goondogger]

27. Once you go Mac . . .

you never go back.

[boobooday]

42. I heart my Mac! n/t

[spooky3]

65. agree--also see my other post about their great service.

[Egnever]

75. Sory but Macs just arent all that.

they are a decent alternative if you dont use your computer for anything other than email and browsing the web. But why cripple yourself with a one button mouse or an inability to run a lot of software titles without using a windows shell that most people couldnt figure out to begine with. Not to mention they are not Upgrade friendly at all and no thanks I'll stick to my home built boxes.

Again if all you do is email and web browsing they are a decent machine. I dont like the OS interface personally but they do work.

[spooky3]

82. uh--there are quite a few programs that run well on Apple

Microsoft's entire Office package, for one set. In many (most?) jobs and homes, that's about all you need.

[MadHound]

83. Gee, you have absolutely no clue about Macs do you?

The vast majority of non-game software made for PCs are also made for Macs. And if you've absolutely, positively got to run a Windoze program, well the new dual kernel Macs make switching over to a Windoze enviroment as easy as can be. As far as upgrades go, let's see, for OS upgrades I simply put in the CD and open the update. Oh, and unlike Windoze machines, once I've updated, I don't have to go fetch new drivers, or even in some cases, new hardware like graphics cards. If I want to upgrade the hardware, it is as easy to do that as any other machine.

Sorry, but your criticism shows a distinct lack of familiarity with Macs. Stick with your homebuilt Windoze box if you want, but since I depend on my computer for reliability and funtionality, I'll stick with my Mac.

[onehandle]

97. His argument is from 1990.

Some people still think this.

His comment about "home built boxes" says a lot too.

[Pavulon]

103. Lets see..software..AUTOCAD

also pretty much any real enterprise process management software does not work. SAP. people soft etc. Anything you would use tor run a company, hence the 5 percent market share.

The stupid cost for os x in the data center and its peg to overpriced hardware make it a niche tool funded by ilife consumer toys.

In the realm of cost effective grid computing 4 chip quad core servers host databases or vmware runs the world. Moving along to ibm power chips and mainframes.

Macs are pretty toys for the creative department.

In my world its lack of autocad support makes it worthless.

[MadHound]

106. Autocad eh? Let's see here

<http://www.shopping.com/xGS-Autocad_For_Macintosh~NS-1~linkin_id-8002370>

And frankly, given Vista, Win 2000, etc., I wouldn't be talking about stupid costs. Macs don't have ineffective, even detrimental software upgrades that also require hardware upgrades. And yes, while Mac hardware does cost a bit more than Windoze boxes(though the price is starting to come down to the point of being competitive), you get what you pay for. Macs are hardier, sturdier, and higher quality than any commercial PC you can buy, and most that you can make. My first Power Mac, bought in 1993, was a fine, viable machine for ten years. My current eMac I expect to do the same. Sure, the up front costs were a bit higher, but in exchange, the long term costs in terms of downtime from viri, crashes, lost information, etc. etc. actually swings things back in favor of the Mac.

And actually Macs have made it out of the "creative" dept., whatever that is. Macs are doing hardcore, hardnosed work in education, nuclear science, business, economics, government, etc. etc. But hey, if you want to stick with crappy machines, spending a pound to save a penny, that's up to you. Me, I believe in getting the highest quality product that I can for my dollar. That's what led me to the Mac and has kept me there for decades now.

Oh, and don't forget that Macs can also run a Windows enviroment now, now when is Windoze going to be able to run a Mac enviroment?

[Pavulon]

109. you mean an emulator

macs are an entertainment item. they look pretty. check back when they do that aix 5.3 does or what a real workstation does. btw no autodesk autocad without the emulator.

[MadHound]

111. LOL, you want Macs to do even more than PCs!

Talk about double standards. Well, the Mac servers can indeed run AIX, though most have moved on from there. Oh, and as far as emulators go, you obviously don't know about Macs. The dual core Macs, with Intel chips, aren't running Windoze on an emulator, it is the real deal, integrated into the Mac as a whole. And since one link doesn't seem to convince you that AutoCAD and Macs go together, here is another <http://www.architosh.com/>

Look, your hatred of Macs seems to be something personal. Whatever, that's fine if you wish to stick with PCs. But before you continue to make foolish claims about what Macs can and cannot do, I suggest you actually do some research.

Oh, and how much downtime have you had due to viri, OS glitches and computer crashes? Macs have very, very little.

[Pavulon]

113. Great I can run osx on non apple hardware

the point is it is NOT SUPPORTED. You do not run AIX 5.x or any unix in a business without support. Autodesk does not sell a product supported on mac hardware. Making it run is fine if you are laying out the landscaping for a hotel.

In my current world none, downtime is generally created by poorly programmed software these days. You are thinking 2001 or so.

Downtime is only relevant in certain places, those places pay to offset it.

If you are designing aircraft parts or high pressure fittings for a nuclear reactor steam vessel you dont want to a non standard config.

I have worked with different os from different vendors for a long time. From MVS, VOS (of you really want uptime talk to me about stratus systems) to SGI's IRIX, as well as the ones being discussed here.

There is NO presence of MAC in the ERP software realm. None. A pc is nothing but an endpoint. Real computing takes place somewhere else. The majority of users could use dumb terminals to do their jobs.

CAD stations in design firms do not run bsd with a pretty face.

[MadHound]

115. Gee, you just keep raising the bar

And Macs just keep going over it.

Look, I could go on and on with this, giving you links to Mac based ERP software, explaining to you how current Macs are UNIX based boxes, how Macs are actually doing "real computing", including the grunt work in nuclear reactors(ooo, including designing those HP fittings), etc. etc., ad nauseum. In fact if you would bother doing a few searches on your own, you would find this out.

But instead you are hell bent on keeping yourself convinced that Macs aren't "real computers" for some strange reason that borders on obsessive. Like I said earlier, if you want to delude yourself, fine. But before you go spreading your own personal opinion, it would help if you actually did some research, something to link to, facts you know.

Thus this is getting to be an exercise in futility for me, since you clearly don't want to deal with reality, but only in your own precious version of how things should be. Whatever, I'm simply going to drop it here. So get in your last baseless opinionated statement now, and we can let this drop.

Just don't be suprised if more and more Macs continue to show up doing "real computing":eyes:

[Pavulon]

116. 5% share, Google SAP on mac, Autodesk mac install

you can NOT run sap processing on osx. PWC has no mac support either. AUTODESK autocad does not INSTALL on mac. Autodesk does not support mac.

You can not refute that. SAP and Autodesk are two of hundreds of software suites that do not run in the Mac world. You can find clients for them and dwf editors but not the vendor supported install.

I have not seen any shop running OSX in any industrial control capacity. I am sure it is done, just have not seen it.

[lpbk2713]

29. Dell was one of the first to send their Customer Service offshore.

Piss on em. They made their bed, now they can sleep in it.

[madrchsod]

31. we have our son fix ours

he`s been building his own computers for ten years...

[geiger]

33. I would suspect that an IBM operative would be behind this

[silverojo]

44. These idiots should've read a computer magazine or two

The LTTE columns are filled with people griping about being in "Dell Hell"--over tech support, trouble with their warranties, and so on.

The only good thing about Dell is that they're trying to resist Micro$haft to some degree, by continuing to offer WinXP, and even some Linux PC's.

[Lithos]

50. Mixed blessing

They will do what they have to get your money, then fight to do everything to not give you any of it back in service and support. Most of their equipment breaks very shortly after warranty because they designed it that way - production controls being what they are allows them to pretty much guarantee things will work at least that far, but once they get there they don't try and spend any more money in design as it's not needed.

L-

[Honeycombe8]

76. Happy Dell Customer here...with pc that did NOT break after warranty.

I bought a Dell pc about 3 or 4 years ago. It went out of warranty long ago. I NEVER buy extended service agreements from vendors (doesn't ANYONE read Consumer Reports? They advise that these are invariably NOT good deals.)

I have not had ONE SINGLE PROBLEM...ever...with my pc. Lest you all think I was one of the few lucky ones...my entire office of over 1,000 people is outfitted with Dell computers. My Dell at the office has not had ONE SINGLE PROBLEM....ever. I have not heard of anyone else at my office having a problem with a Dell, either.

At the office we've had problems with some SOFTWARE, but not the hardware, or the installation of the software by Dell. Same thing for my home computer (I have XP Prof. at home and the office).

I don't know about their customer repair or tech service, since I've never had to use it.

I will be buying a Dell the next time.

[Lithos]

87. Please understand this

Dell offers two different lines of desktop PC's. One is pure consumer, the other is business oriented. The support and quality of the stuff sold to business is almost always better than consumer.

My experience with Dell is with their consumer line which is what you order online. I had a small business on the side which supported about 15-20 small businesses, about half of whom bought the consumer oriented Dell's. Kept myself in fairly good money fixing them. Most would break shortly after the warranty broke. One model in particular (can't remember the number off the top of my head) for which about 6 desktops were bought over about a 4 month period had the power supply go out within two weeks of the end of warranty - no exception. Thankfully for these units, I could replace the PSU; Dell for several years had model lines which utilized proprietary PSU's and were very expensive and painful (timewise) to replace. I think of those who bought laptops, about half had to be sent in due to failure of major components (usually the mobo).

Dealing with Dell was always like pulling teeth. I remember one time I spent 4 hours on the phone lobbying when they screwed up an order.

Those who bought HP's had far fewer problems with their hardware. Even e-Machines were better in quality.

[Honeycombe8]

89. Well, mine at home is the consumer line that I bought online.

I bought it several years ago. I'm wondering if the ones for your customers were newer than mine, and Dell has made some business or manufacturing changes in the last few years.

Customer service, also, used to be one of Dell's strengths. It's disappointing to me if Dell deceived some of the customers into thinking their service agreements were something that they aren't.

I bought a Best Buy service agreement over 10 years ago (before I read the Consumer Reports info about service agreements). I found out quickly it was absolutely worthless (to me).

I think Dell has gone downhill lately. Glad I sold that stock!

[Lithos]

90. These Dell's were from 2003-2005

They had a bunch of older PC's which were given to other users when the Dell's started coming in. Most of those ended up outliving their Dell replacements. I've since sold the business, but last I heard they had switched to HP as a general rule and were having better luck.

[Pavulon]

114. You are mistaken. The difference in the lines

is that consumer parts vary. So you may get some part that is not exactly the same in the same line over time. Not a worse part just cheaper at the time.

All the manufacturers business lines have a longer refresh cycle. The reason in that companies use a standard image. Like xp with a base set of programs. Then they deploy software to the machine based on the role of the user.

That image breaks if the video chipset changes or they use a broadcom nic rather than an intel. The business models are more uniform.

My experience has been reversed. HP has been a pain in the ass on server equipment, never meet sla, piss poor support. I hate their phone system.

[keroro gunsou]

47. oye vey...

i've got two dells, a 5+ year old desktop (4400 dimension series) and a 3 year old inspirion 9100 laptop. the only major issues i've had with them have been software/OS based. The one time I needed Dell's help was for my laptop's power thingie, it stopped working for some reason, and they shipped me a new one, no questions asked next day air.

i've noticed that there is no middle ground when it comes to Dell, you love 'em or you despise them. me, i'll recommend them to whoever (and for the record, i've helped 3 of my friends get dells, and they love them)

[leftwingnut]

58. Do your self a favor and buy a MAC!!!

Best thing I ever did!

[The Backlash Cometh]

59. What happened? Did their labor force in Inda go on strike?

[Kermitt Gribble]

62. I've had my Dell laptop for 4 years now...

I bought the 2 year in-home warranty. I've had one problem about a month before my warranty expired. 2 phone calls to tech support and a guy was at my home within 2 days. Problem solved, been running strong ever since. I know Dell is a Bushie, didn't know 4 years ago when I bought this machine, but I would definately buy another. My brother bought an HP 8 months ago and had to ship it back twice so far - taking about a week each time and it still wasn't fixed. He had to have our guru buddy fix his problem. I like HP's, and would consider buying one, but I've had very good luck with my Dell. Plus, they've been running some killer specials lately.

[Lost4words]

63. Well go buy five more dells if you love dell so much!

You work for dell dont you!?
8643

[populistdriven]

67. Blogged And Google Bombed!!!! Join the Google Bombing of Dell!!!!

http://www.joe.to/

Join the Google Bombing of http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Michael_Dell.php">Dell

Post any article on http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Michael_Dell.php">Dell and link any "http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Michael_Dell.php">Dell" text to this: http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Michael_Dell.php

[Egnever]

74. Dell has been crap for years.

The only thing they have going for them is their willingness to replace whatever breaks while under warentee. That of course assumes you can navigate the minefield they put in front of you before they send out the parts.

Used to work for them back like 7 years ago and they were shipping machines out at the time with modems in them they knew were defective. It was the last straw for me at the time. I just couldnt honestly talk to someone and recomend a dell product knowing they were shipping these machines out with the cheapest parts they could get their hands on in them.

[conspirator]

77. Their customer service is crap, but their servers are good value for money for small businesses nt

[truckerb1968]

88. This is a llong time coming. To HELL with DELL.

[Endangered Specie]

92. My DELL computer has lasted 4 years without a single problem

of any kind, maybe I got in when the gettin was good. It functions just as good as the day I turned it on and has outlasted many of my friends Macintrash computers.

Every MAC I've owned had problems, software, hardware you name it. Some kid in a class of mine try to use a Mac to make an office powerpoint presentation, only when he loaded it onto the PC to present to us the pictures wouldnt display, so much for the "Mac can do everything a PC can" line.

[ProudDad]

95. Michael Dell

Big Time repuke donor:

http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Michael_Dell.php

$755,100* Republican
$17,800 Democrat
$63,000 special interest

Lots to santorum -- what does that tell you?

Gad, this guy's EVIL!

[wageslave71]

96. He gave to Mel Watt (D)

That's probably because Watt is a sure bet. I'm new to the Winston-Salem area of NC, but I am aware of Dell having some type of operation here. I say Watt is a sure bet, because the congressional districts were redrawn (about 10 years ago, maybe??) to favor the GOP. To accomplish this the 12th district was conceded to the Dems. For a good laugh look up the NC congressional districts and see how the 12th is a narrow strip meandering up the I-85 corridor, confining the Dems in Charlotte, W-S, Greensboro, and High Point who may otherwise endanger the likes of Patrick McHenry, Sue Myrick, and Virginia Foxx.

[ProudDad]

110. That's the only Dem he did give to

I was certain he was the rep from the district in Austin where he lives...