Food-stamp diet? It'll make ya sick

[RamboLiberal]

Source: NY Daily News

Healthy eating on the food stamp diet was mission impossible - even for the Daily News' expert shopper.

Despite bargain hunting, St. Vincent's Hospital Manhattan dietitian Tina Fuchs fell short on every vital food group when asked to buy a week's worth of food with only $28.

The nutritionist was challenged to see whether she could do better than Queens Councilman Eric Gioia, who has been living on the average food-stamp allotment for a single recipient for the past week.

And, though more nutritious than the Democrat's diet of Ramen noodles, cheese slices and white bread, she said her shopping cart would still lead to major long-term health problems.

"I made the most of our $28, but we haven't got what we need," she said outside Associated Supermarket on W. 14th St.



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/05/17/2007-05-17_foodstamp_diet_itll_make_ya_sick-4.html

[WCGreen]

1. I am shocked, I tell you shocked.....

[sandnsea]

2. 1 person, $155 max

That's for someone with no other income. There's no way anyone can eat a healthy diet on that. I don't know how someone eats on it at all. And the conservatives talk about the rest of the "largesse" - which all reduces the amount of food stamps one would get. This is so pathetic. Low income people are going to have to escape to Mexico to survive.

[undergroundpanther]

9. No, they are going to

put us in debtors prisons or they'll kill us off eventually when the rich pigs think they can get away with it,when the middle class resents us enough,or is deperate enough scared to death of becoming poor themselves to look the other way to keep thier jobs....

[Ken Burch]

83. You're assuming they WANT the poor to survive...

Our enlightened leaders probably regard this as "culling the herd".

[krkaufman]

131. Their final solution to global warming, perhaps.

[Systematic Chaos]

3. One person? One week? Lentils, potatoes, brown rice and simple spices.

Done.

Bland as hell, and it'll drive you nucking futs, but done.

[sandnsea]

5. No fruit or vegetables

Fat unhealthy kids, and seniors. People have to live like this for a lot longer than one week.

[jilln]

10. That's not nutrition.

That's one food group.

[Systematic Chaos]

12. How is that "not nutrition"?

What do you think vegans do?

[jilln]

17. Oh please!

You think vegans eat potatoes, rice and lentils all the time?

[LeftyMom]

30. We eat fruits and veggies too. And they cost money.

Also, you need enough oils to get the right proportion of good fats and either a good quality vitamin supplement or a fortified soy/rice/almond/whatever beverage to make sure you get enough B-12 and vitamin D.

A varied diet is also very important. Eating the same few things all the time is a good way to wind up with serious dietary deficiencies.

[SmokingJacket]

141. An organic pear costs $1.

And it gives you some vitamins, but only about 1/20 your day's calories.

[silverojo]

52. "Vegan" is a fad diet

They're often short on essential nutrients like B12.

A fad diet like that shouldn't be forced on anyone. You really seem to have a lot of compassion for poor people. :sarcasm:

[Systematic Chaos]

78. You really seem to have a lot of compassion for poor people.

Exceeded only by your understanding of basic facts, to be sure. :eyes:

[jilln]

111. You mean only for those wackos who want much lower rates of heart disease and cancer

and diabetes and obesity etc.?

Those people are nuts. Including the scientists, nutritionists and doctors who agree it's a healthy fad.

[flvegan]

115. Ignorance.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[nodehopper]

75. vegans eat fruits and veggies...and most supplement with vitamins

being Vegan in scary-food US of A is largely a luxury only the middle class and above can afford (and be healthy).

[dropkickpa]

191. Food stamps won't pay for vitamins or supplements n/t

[Morgana LaFey]

144. What do vegans do?

They eat a lot of vegetables (other than potatoes) and fruit, and usually more varied grain and legumes than you've named.

[wuushew]

16. Beans are a pretty good source of a lot of what you need

I would eat more but being a rather amateur preparer of food, I am put off by the long cooking times of dried legumes.

For carbs rice and potatoes are excellent, except one might consider yams instead of potatoes because of their superior fiber and lower glycemic index.

[zalinda]

110. The best way to cook beans

is to put them in the crock pot before you go to bed, and be sure to season them. (A chef friend who has cooked probably over 10,000 lbs of beans by now, ALWAYS seasons his beans before cooking. No salt equals tasteless beans.)

In the morning, the beans are ready to make into anything you want, you can even freeze them at this point. They may be a little more firm than you would like to eat right away, but I usually make chili or soup or ham and beans with them.

Never, never add tomatoes to cooking beans, that is the only thing that will stop the beans from softening up.

I have never had a failure with the cooking of beans by this method, and I've been doing it for 30 years.

zalinda

[sandnsea]

126. 15 bean w/tomatoes

Try the recipe on the back of the 15 bean soup bag, the one that includes canned tomatoes. Oh.My.God. Best bean soup ever!! The tomatoes didn't stop the beans from softening at all, they don't when I make chili either, so I don't get that part of your statement.

[Morgana LaFey]

145. Typically, you add an acidic ingredient (tomatoes, a bit of lemon juice)

when the beans are as soft as you want them, and then that keeps them from getting mushy if you are cooking the dish longer. It works, too. I don't know what to tell you about your 15 bean soup with tomatoes, tho.

[sandnsea]

149. That's good to know

I actually have noticed the 15-bean never gets all mushy, like my great northerns do. They get cooked just fine, but hold their shape. It must be the tomatoes. I will try the lemon juice in some other bean recipes and see how it works. The 15-bean recipe calls for lemon juice too, I like the flavor.

[Morgana LaFey]

153. And the funny thing is --

it only takes a bit. For lemon juice, a teaspoon??? (trying to remember) Or you could add a dollop of wine, red or white. Just a glug ought to be enough.

[alfredo]

169. Lentils have a short cooking time and are easily digested.

I just had a red lentil soup. Lentils, onion, water, salt, pepper, cumin, lemon juice, crushed red peppers we got at a pizza parlor, and a few drops of olive oil. Cooking time was a bit over a half hour.

Steamed a bit of broccoli and carrots. Seasoned it with salt and lemon juice and garlic. I served the veggies on a bed of home grown lettuce. A couple whole wheat chapatis rounded out the meal.

[Ms. Toad]

172. As a shortcut for the overnight soak

Boil the beans for 5 minutes, cover and let stand for an hour, the simmer to desired tenderness.

I usually forget I need the beans until the day I need them, then have no time for the overnight soak.

[SoCalDem]

151. Soak them overnight, and cooking time is very little, really

:)

[Enthusiast]

193. All bean dishes are..............

All bean dishes are improved by the addition of a ham hock or two during cooking. Now them are some good beans!

[karlrschneider]

26. Wouldn't a box of laundry starch be even cheaper?

:eyes:

[cliss]

43. Well, I'm trying it right now.

I got challenged on another thread, about 2 weeks ago. People told me very firmly it simply cannot be done, and there was quite a bit of hostility over it.

I told them it could be done. Bulk foods like grains, pasta, supplemented with fresh fruits and vegies. Of course, you're not going to eat strawberries flown in from New Zealand. There are cheap fruits and vegies to supplement a grain-based diet.

I'm currently munching on Lentil sprouts. This past week, I've eaten all kinds of vegie sprouts, grown right here at home. They're yummy. About 32c cents/pound.

I'm creating all kinds of recipes for cooking on a Starvation Budget. For me, it's not a money issue. I'm trying it out because I believe poor people CAN eat decently, if they just get good suggestions.

[silverojo]

53. Reality check

Poor people are generally unhealthy. That means, they can't just eat anything they want.

Until my aunt recently passed away, she and my mother and I were on food stamps, so we know how it REALLY is.

My aunt had congestive heart failure, as well as multiple allergies. She had to eat a very low-sodium diet (goodbye, cheap pre-packaged foods!), and fruits/vegetables aren't cheap, even at Wal-Mart.

(Yeah, we shopped at Wal-Mart until now. When you're poor, you have no choice.)

Also, try your experiment during the winter, when fruits/vegetables cost an arm and a leg. It's real easy to talk big during the spring, when produce is cheaper.

As her heart got worse, even the fluid in fruits became more than her diuretic could handle, and she'd have difficulty breathing. No more of her favorite watermelons and cantaloupes, which made her dying days even worse for her.

Mom and I had to go without a lot of things, too. I'm currently being treated for symptoms of malnourishment, and I'm sure my mom will be, too, as soon as her doctor's appointment rolls around. I've lost 40 pounds in the past year, and Mom is now 98 pounds (not good on a 5'4" elderly frame). The two of us have multiple health problems, too, so we can't just fill up on lentils, as you suggest.

And BTW, how do you plan on sharing your precious recipes? Has it ever occured to you that, if people are poor enough to be on food stamps, they can't afford to buy a recipe book?

Or do you plan to share your recipes on a web site, which they can't access because they can't afford a computer, let alone monthly internet access? The library--forget it. Libraries don't let you remain online long enough to find an obscure web site, and they charge for each page you print out, too.

You need to face the reality that not everyone is as healthy and privileged as you. FWIW, if you were to eat your "Starvation Diet" on a long-term basis, you'd end up as sickly as I am now.

Why don't you be a real Democrat, and understand that it's more important to take care of the poor and elderly, than it is to give tax breaks to the rich?

[Systematic Chaos]

79. Strawman check.

n/t

[cliss]

87. Yes, I'm also aware of all these problems,

and I'm sorry it sounds like such a raw deal dealing with health issues. I'm completely sympathetic to these issues which have NOTHING to do with nutrition/access to information, and so on.

It's just part of Bush's destruction of this country.

But, keep in mind there are a lot of really poor people living in other countries, like thailand, Malaysia, India, who have never eaten a piece of meat in their lives, much less American convenience food. They are dirt poor. And yet, they seem to survive. They eat mostly vegetarian food, soups, stews whatever they can get their hands on. I usually go to You-pick places here in Oregon, and I can tell you it's mostly Russians, or Hispanics who go to these places. They take their kids with them, and the whole family picks vegies. They seem healthy enough.

Now that doesn't mean I'm discounting your situation. I think that in this country, there's so much really BAD food.

And no, I'm not interested in selling the cook book, although several people have asked me to get the thing published. I think I'll wait till it's done and have a nutritionist look at it. Then we'll know.

[sandnsea]

90. It takes gas to get to the U-pick

I wanted to head in towards Eugene this week-end and get some fresh asparagus and see if any berries were in. My car gets 40 mpg and it will still cost me $8, there and back - to save what?? I can't buy $100 worth and freeze it, I'd have no money to eat for the next two weeks. To join the food box produce is $3-400, which would save over the long run, but again, where is that supposed to come from now??

[jmowreader]

142. Look close: They're in other countries

Other countries are more set up for that kind of eating. Starting with the fact that they've been doing it for 2000 years, so mom was taught how to cook this stuff by her mom and passed it on to her children. In America, lentils aren't really the food of choice.

In America, if you want to be a healthy vegan you better have money--money to buy the right kinds of organic foods, money to buy cookbooks...

[Big Pappa]

154. Damn, do you not have one

positive thing you can point to. That was just depressing. BTW Walmart gives away recipe cards so you can mark that one off your list.

[grasswire]

77. can you link to that previous thread?

it would be interesting to see

[cliss]

88. It was in the LBN, about

1 week ago. I'll do some searching, it might take me a day or two!

Will return.

[Matariki]

117. the cost of what I ate the past two days.

(edited for not being able to write more than 1 sentence without grammar problems!)

I eat a lot of fruit and vegetables and spend under $30 a week on groceries (excluding alcohol), so these threads that claim a person can't eat cheap and healthy always leave me scratching my head a bit. Granted I'm not living in a deep urban zone and I have access to a grocery store with a a bulk section and a good selection of local, in season produce. And I almost never buy prepacked food. Also I am only 5'3" so my calorie needs might be lower than some people's. I had a grocery receipt laying around and wrote down and added up what I ate the past two days:

oatmeal w/ chopped apple and some walnuts = .70
vegetable soup(frozen, from large batch) & toast = < $1
fish (6oz @ $7 pound), steamed broccoli(1/2 of a $1 organic head) and carrot, orzo w/ butter & lemon = $2.65 for the fish, .75 for the veges & orzo

toast & orange .60
amazing fried tofu & onion wrap on chinese cabbage < $1
steamed broccoli, spaghetti w/ egg, olive oil, garlic & lemon < $1

My total for 2 days was $7.70 - under the $4 a day that would add up to $28 a week. I ate well, didn't go hungry and this is my normal diet.

[sandnsea]

119. Let's go buy that

Oatmeal $3.00
Walnuts $3.00
Vegetables (carrots, potatoes, parsnips, etc) $6.00
fish $2.65
Brocolli $2.00 ($1 organic head?? noway)
Butter $2.00
Lemon $1.00
Toast $2.00

We're already up to $21.00 and I haven't even finished the second day.

[Matariki]

122. I have the damned receipt

just because THE TRUTH of what I'm saying doesn't fit what you want to complain about doesn't make it not true. I just fucking bought the stuff two days ago. I spent 0.98 for organic broccoli that was enough for two LARGE servings. A PIECE OF TOAST does NOT cost $2, nor does a pat of butter. Christ. I buy a loaf of bread and put it in my freezer. The soup I had was from a big batch I'd made and froze portions to take to work.

You seem to be trying to add up a whole weeks supply and apply it to one meal in order to make your point. I'm not going to argue with you further about this. I KNOW what I spend on food. Maybe groceries are cheaper around here, I don't know. I'm just relating what I eat and what I spend.

You can have the last word. Knock yourself out.

[sandnsea]

124. Yes, you buy a LOAF of bread

And a pound of butter. Not a piece and a pat. You have to add up the whole thing. So my list would have gotten your menu started for the week, probably would have covered breakfast and lunch all week. But there's 5 more dinners to prepare and your menu has already cost $21. It doesn't add up, and I only added a damned $1 for the stupid broccoli.

I am sick of people misrepresenting what it actually costs to eat. I don't understand the perverted need to do it.

[SemperEadem]

177. thank you

I don't know of any store that allows anyone to slice off a 'pat' of butter or take a slice of bread out of a loaf.

[ProudDad]

163. Of course

one does need a home with cooking facilities and transportation to the nearest store where these items can be bought (in my ghetto neighborhood that costs $3.50 round trip).

You prove that one person with all of the advantages, easy access to cheap food, the knowledge and experience of how to do the shopping and cooking and reliable long term storage of cooked food and a pretty tiny appetite can allegedly scrape by on that $28/wk.

It's anecdotal and you're to be commended for your diet but it's hardly applicable to the situation of nearly all of those folks who are condemned to try to survive on that $28/wk.

[NotGivingUp]

175. One comment and one request::

I wish I could get organic broccoli for $1!!!!!
Could you please post your recipe for the amazing fried tofu & onion wrap on chinese cabbage? It sounds delicious.

[bread_and_roses]

138. And the poor Kindergardner's jump up and down for lentil sprouts? please.

Once again - asking the poorest and most stressed already to take on the food and advertising industry on top of everything else they are coping with is too much.

Children want to eat what their friends eat, what they see on TV, what they see in the store (leaving the kids at home with a sitter is a luxury far beyond most poor mothers).

Yes, of course, parents have to say no and help their children learn healthy choices yada yada yada. I know college-educated, middle-class, health and nutrition conscious working mothers who don't have the energy to force a totally alternative diet on their children. They say no a lot and buy Oateos instead of Cheerios and put green vegitables on the plate every day and serve and real OJ (which they can afford) instead of Sunny D and Kool-Aid - but their kids get meat and take-out and cookies and the occasional chips and soda and even sweet cereal. They're not asking the kids to live on kitchen grown sprouts and boiled beans and rice.

Try saying no to your kids over a bag of chips - which you can afford today because it's Food Stamp shopping day -when you have to say no to everything else. No to movies and toys and the shoes they really want and new clothes instead of something from the Thrift Store and even no to the $1 it costs to get into the Municipal swimming pool and no to the class trip to the amusement park and no and no and no.

[dropkickpa]

192. As preparation for this

did you throw out or lock up each and every single edible item in your home, including salt, pepper, herbs, and spices (your food stamps will pay for these, but they're gonna eat up your budget somethin' fierce!)? And all of your kitchen implements excepting a pan, a pot, cookie sheet, a spatula, a spoon, and maybe 2-3 knives (anything fancier usually costs cash, which doesn't go towards frivolous items but rather bills like rent)?

And keep in mind, most veggie seeds are not covered by food stamps, though some can be purchased as whole seeds/beans at the grocery store, if you're lucky enough to live by one that carries these items. Depressed areas rarely have good grocery stores (very limited selection), if they have one at all. And you have to rely on public transportation to get to and from the store. Not as easy as you seem to think.

[Ken Burch]

84. After a few months, you'd get scurvy from THAT menu.

We should revive the idea of community gardens in some areas, so people could at least grow produce and share it with each other. Since many poor communities don't have grocery stores, it's hard to imagine any special interests objecting.

[Warpy]

143. A selection of beans and grains

plus onions, cabbage, root veggies, and squash (cheap year round). Tea instead of coffee (you can get two brews out of tea).

Yes, it's boring, but it'll supply all those nutrients and keep you alive for a remarkably long time.

Splurging on organic fruits: try a banana. It's 300 calories and supplies a large amount of potassium.

[Sparkly]

180. I had quite a few lean years on bulk dried grains and legumes

They don't have to be bland. Onions, curry powder, chili powder, dried herbs, onions and garlic, etc. can make them into all sorts of things -- from split pea soup to yellow lentils on rice. (Back in those days, they ranged from 40-60 cents a pound dried.)

But, it takes access to a store that carries them, as well as some time, effort, and familiarity with them taste-wise.

Anybody remember the old book, "Diet for a Small Planet?" Eating more directly from the land this way -- rather than animals fed from the land -- makes sense in a lot of ways.

[acmavm]

4. I suppose that it's a good thing that people are trying to get a

taste (excuse the pun) of what it's like having to survive on a starvation budget. Maybe a few more people will stop and think about what it must be like to live like that. Or try to live like that.

[Systematic Chaos]

6. Way too many people would go to the 99 cent store,

load up on the 99 cent boxes of cookies and crackers, maybe some pasta and godawful "sauce", some third-rate lunch meat and day-old bread. Most of my life I'd have done the same thing, but I'm finally "grokking" some things I have to do in order to save my health, without spending too much money. Can't say I've lost any weight yet at this point because I have no scale, but my energy level is up and that's a great sign.

[sandnsea]

24. I'm on a diet for health

It's three times more expensive. Whole wheat bread, pasta vs. cheapo store brand white crap. Chicken breast vs. thighs and legs. Loin vs. chuck. Quality albacore tuna vs. 50 cent tuna. 5 servings of fruits and vegetables a day. And I'm having beans for dinner today, we eat them a couple of times a week. It's still VERY expensive to eat healthy.

[Marrah_G]

199. I tried to do that also, but the budget could not handle it.

[Hekate]

7. And if you have other small change, fast food is also cheap & filling

Not healthy, just cheap and filling. And fattening. So it looks like you're getting enough to eat.

Recommended: Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickle and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America".

Hekate

[Systematic Chaos]

11. To their credit, Taco Bell has cheap bean burritos that won't kill you.

Unless the veggies are tainted again, that is.

But that's about it. :eyes:

[Decruiter]

20. You can say that again.

...If you mean, that's the ONLY thing from TB you would want.

No need to go into E. coli from December, or rat infestation from February.

Besides, 65% of the "beef" in their ground beef is actually oatmeal.

[undergroundpanther]

8. This is what Ive been trying

to tell the organic food is affordable crowd here yammering about it's affordable!! Try harder!!.
Nevermind organic food ain't organic,no guaruntees..execept to pay more for the same toxic food I can't afford anyway!!

It's EXPENSIVE.

And this is one way big business profits off making poor people miserable sick and used up. Kill the poor indeed.
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=4647
http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0216-30.htm

If you wanna get pissed read this:

The Poverty Business
Inside U.S. companies' audacious drive to extract more profits from the nation's working poor
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_21/b4035001.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily

http://marginalnotes.typepad.com/pj/film/index.html

[Le Taz Hot]

112. Allow me to make one correction.

In California, in order to be labeled "organic," farmers must go through a rigorous certification process that usually takes several years to achieve. I know this because I live in the Central San Joaquin Valley and know several farmers who've gone through this process. True, I suppose anyone could sell their stuff on the side of the road and label it "organic" but I would hope most people wouldn't fall for that.

Organicically-grown foods ARE more expensive IF you buy it from places like Whole Foods, BUT, if you can buy from a farmers market the farmer should actually have his/her certification to prove they've met the required criteria.

[terisan]

13. Uh...I spend just slightly more in GA and consider my diet relatively healthy. Have to spend

more to be fully organic though, and also wonder about the sprays and additives I don't know about.

Fresh fruit in season, bananas and carrots year round, fresh vegetables in season, Have occasional rice, veggie chili, use black beans, pea soup, eggs for protein. Occasional meat, fish. Yogurt. occasional nuts. Sparing on cheese. Avoid bread and juices. Usually have a box of crackers on hand. Drink water.

Just bought 9 mangoes for $4.50 at the Farmers Market. Fish or chicken at a good price is difficult. If I get fresh herbs, I usually share with someone else. Would like to start an herb garden.

I think the problem re food on food stamps is how to feed growing children decently. Probably impossible. Also if someone works at low wage, need calories plus have less time for food prep.

Also I eat out once per week with friends and put that in entertainment budget.

I have noticed the hidden price increase over last year on items like raisins--package downsizing/pricing same or higher on things like raisins.

If I was not trying to keep my at-home food budget low, I would buy more: tomatoes, cheese, berries, fish, spices, olives, nuts, teas, organic everything, and things I shouldn't.

I could easily visualize spending $100 per week but if and when I do, I don't want to change the basic way I am doing things now.

[Truthseeker013]

14. Errrr...ummmm...ahhhh...

Words flee me.

[leQ]

15. there seems to be a lot of representatives trying to live on food stamp allotment

two congressional representatives are keeping their thoughts on blogs (and damn if i can't find the links in my history). but what's all this focus on what a food stamp benefit can do, like anybody tried to pass it off as being healthy in the first place.

[SayWhatYo]

18. One thing I was wondering about...

Well, first of all, I think the total amount should be raised. It's very clear that someone who solely relied on that would not be able to survive for any period of time. However, aren't food stamps meant to function as a supplement? One would assume that someone would hopefully have at least some sort of job, no? How many people only rely on food stamps as their primary income?

[sandnsea]

21. $155 maximum, #2

That's why I wrote the post, I knew somebody would pop up with the right wing talking point about the other hoards of money people have to live on, not to mention the rest of the government "largesse".

IIRC, the maximum for one person was around $90 back in the 80's. Housing has quadrupled. A low income paycheck will barely cover housing, and there isn't enough energy assistance to pay more than two month of power either.

Regardless of all of that, a person with NO income would get $155 a month. That means my son when his back was injured and he couldn't work for 6 months and worker's comp was fighting his claim - $155 month for food and that was IT.

People just have no goddamn clue what it's like if you have one little thing go wrong.

[SayWhatYo]

37. Well, I don't think what I said was a 'right wing talking point'...

Not sure why it would be. Like I said, the amount given each month is far too low. Obviously when someone gets into a situation like your son was in, then they get screwed over. However, I see that more of a fault with the way we handle people who get injured at work.

I always figured the vast majority of people on food stamps were like my brother and his family. Him and his wife have two kids, he worked(making a little more than min wage) while she was going to school. Like you said, living in expensive and they really did need that extra help. They didn't have "hoards of money", but they did have a little. However, they used it to help cover what they couldn't as opposed to having only the welfare. Am I wrong in believing that is the norm for people on welfare?

[silverojo]

58. Another answer

<<However, they used it to help cover what they couldn't as opposed to having only the welfare. Am I wrong in believing that is the norm for people on welfare?>>

First off, you must have some really lax laws in your state (which is good for your relatives, thank goodness!), because in many states (including mine), BOTH parents must work...and if you want to go to school, you have to do it at night. So you can subtract day care expenses from what little money a family earns.

Secondly, there are huge numbers of welfare recipients who are elderly or applying for disability...people with poverty-level income (or zero income, in the case of people like me whose SSI cases are in the courts for years).

Thank you, Bill Clinton--your "welfare reform" is welfare DEFORM, screwing over the people who can least afford it! :mad:

[SayWhatYo]

63. They expect elderly and disabled people to work?

Based on what I've always observed it seemed as if people around were able to get the help they needed. It's sounding like they either got lucky or they had more problems than I thought. Kind of scared after hearing some of these stories.

[sandnsea]

85. Disabled person

Okay, I know a guy who has rarely worked because he was slightly mentally ill and retarded his entire life. The monthly SSD is around $680 right now. He gets the $155 food stamps, and enough for about two months energy assistance. If he could get into low income housing, that would probably be $240 or so for rent - IF he could get in. There's waiting lists forever and mentally ill people have a tough time, I'm not even sure that he didn't have a criminal record that would disqualify him, even though he's in his 60's now and totally harmless. Anyway, most people have to find a place to live and about the cheapest place here is $450. So that leaves him $230. He doesn't have to have a phone, cable tv, vehicle or car insurance - but that's a pretty miserable existence without any of it. A phone is almost a requirement for the elderly anyway. But there you have it. You figure out a budget for all of this, and don't forget clothes, shoes, coat, soap, - and dental and eyes which medicaid no longer pays for.

Now be just old, and making $6 hr, $1032 a month - and your food stamps drop to $47, as does the rest of your assistance - and you may not even be qualified for Medicaid anymore.

That's America for a number of people, and it's going to be more now that we've done away with pensions and continue to privatize everything else.

[RobinA]

198. I've Worked Extensively

with the poor and mentally ill. Ill or not, if you are on SSI you lose money if you work (in PA). The SSI requirments and administrators can be pretty hilarious in a macabre way. Like telling a guy he is denied SSI because he is capable of working a part-time job that allows him to sit down the whole time. Another guy was a machine operator. Got into a motorcycle accident that left him with a dent in his head. Gets migraines every day. Dr. tells him not to work in a loud place because noise gives this man migraines. Machine operation takes place in a loud place. No SSI for him, he can work in a quiet place. All the man knows how to be is a machine operator. Retraining? For a job that supports a family? Unlikely.

Yeah, there are poor people who use money unwisely, don't know how to operate in their own best interest, sell food stamps and use the money on crap and drugs. But there are many who just can't dig themselves out of a patchwork system and isn't really interested in doing what is necessary to help people become productive citizens.

[silverojo]

98. Another answer. :-)

<<They expect elderly and disabled people to work?>>

If you're over 65, you're not forced to work (thank God). If you're disabled and under under 65 (like me), you either must get a doctor's note saying you can't work, or else you DO have to work.

Of course, there's always that other option...if you can't get a doctor's note, you can always just stay home and not get any help at all. :mad:

If you're single, living alone, you can't get food stamps for any reason--period. You must either have dependent children or (like me) be included in a "family" case (ours consisted of me and my mother, since she's basically supporting me). And in the "family" case, if you're between 16 and 65 years of age, the rules in the first paragraph apply.

It really sucks...people are being penalized for being responsible enough NOT to have kids they can't afford to support! :mad:

[ProudDad]

164. You got that right!

"It really sucks...people are being penalized for being responsible enough NOT to have kids they can't afford to support!"

and then the reich-wing complains about all those poor people having babies...

[sandnsea]

81. That is the norm for 25-30% of America

All those people out there who are working at retail stores and restaurants and nursing homes. They aren't on welfare. But they can't make ends meet without assistance, it's a labor subsidy for the corporations. The people on welfare are even worse off. They don't get the maximum amount of food stamps, but there isn't anything left from the welfare check to help make up the difference in groceries either.

The reason things have gotten this bad is because the right has so successfully brain-washed people into believing there really aren't hungry people. Look at the dismissiveness in this thread. That's how they've managed to cut all the assistance - even though the federal budget isn't cut at all. The money is going to their rich cronies because that's who they think is supposed to have it - they sure don't want the workers feeling secure enough to exercise their rights or anything.

[Psephos]

92. Can we dispense with the "right wing talking point" slam in discussions?

It does nothing to further discussion, and a lot to harm it.

It's ok for progressives to have different views. Let's respect the diversity of viewpoints here by avoiding insults to those whose views aren't identical to our own.

No offense intended.

[sandnsea]

95. It comes from Reaganism

and I will call it every time I see it. It doesn't have to be intentionally right wing for it to BE right wing - bullshit - if you prefer. An entire generation was raised on Reaganomic lies, they have to be corrected if we're going to avoid more economic disasters.

[notadmblnd]

23. ? I can't believe you said that. 5.25 x 40= 210

before taxes, so take away $50 for gas to get to work (if they have a car) insurance, housing, heating, lights and water and what is left for food? Besides, a person making 5.25 an hour probably exceeds the federal minimum guidelines for qualifying for assistance. So do the math and let us know, how many people you think rely on food stamps to eat.

on edit: I replied to the wrong person, this was meant as a reply to the poster you replied to.

[zalinda]

113. Back in the 90's, I made $6 an hour

my take home pay was $187. $187 x 4 equals $748 Now, take out rent, utilities and food, for a woman and a growing boy, nothing much left even when you tighten your belt as much as it will go.

Dollar stores are crowded now, and so are thrift stores. Yes, it's amazing what it's like to be poor. So amazing I'm starting to spin into a depression, as things keep getting worse. How long before we start killing ourselves off, because it has become just to much of a struggle.

zalinda

[notadmblnd]

114. Bartering has been a life saver for me

I do taxes for other services through out the year. Dollar stores for personal hygiene products and the Salvation army for kids summer cloths have become part of my way of life. I only buy sale items at the grocery stores and have begun growing my own produce. My son is learning to hunt so we'll be supplementing our diet with venison and rabbit and we're going to take up fishing too. I just can't clean the damn things.

[SoCalDem]

152. How about $2.88 a month for food?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/SoCalDem/61


SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Mar-21-07 04:09 PM
Original message

A single mom with one child can live easily on $10 an hour

IF they can both eat on $2.88 a month and no one gets sick...or the car does not break down..and she drives with no car insurance..and the kid never outgrows clothing or shoes




SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts)Wed Mar-21-07 04:32 PM


32. Add a dad to the mix (also making $10 an hour)



2165.76

-900 more realistic rent for 3
-240 additional gasoline
-50 phone
-75 electric
-50 gas
-30 water


-300 extra car payment
-300 more realistic day care
220.76 "left" over to feed 3 people and maybe buy car insurance for the two cars..

[TheFarseer]

157. I was treading water on $8.50/hr once upon a time

I was just on my own and not getting ahead at all. Thank God I had savings from when I was a kid. I was spending too much on rent admittedly, but I can't imagine getting by on that with a kid. I'm big on birth control and not having kids unless you can afford them. I guess that's just the little republican in me.

[SoCalDem]

158. Many single moms don't start out that way, but they end up having to do it all alone.

there will be many single Moms, shose husbands did not come back from Iraq. They will find that the insurance money won;t carry through their whole lives.. and once the military member is gone, the military wants the family O.U.T. A.S.A.P.

[Ms. Toad]

173. well...those figures could use a second look

I glanced at the chart when it showed up a few months back, and didn't think through the numbers.

Mom's circumstances do not need to be to be as dire as the chart paints it.

For the first scenario (I didn't calculate the dad in the picture), mom could be having money added to her paycheck each week, rather than deducted for federal taxes. Using the numbers provided, mom will be due a refund of $3020 at the end of the year (taxes paid of $1225 less tales owed of $405 plus Earned Income Tax Credit Refund of $2200).

Mom could reduce her federal withholding to $0 and take the The Advanced Earned Income Tax Credit in the amount of $34.52 a week (added to her paycheck).

Those changes would give mom $278.08 more a month to live on - a total of $280.96 for food and other necessities. Still not great, but a darn sight better than 2.88.


I am well aware that some individuals living near the edge (and even quite a few with plenty to live on) choose to have excess withholding and deliberately do not take the advanced earned income credit in order to have a large refund. It's the only realistic way to save for many folks - but if this mom is really living on $2.88 a week, it is a CHOICE (or lack of knowledge about tax rights).

(Side note: Mom is almost certainly also eligible for a child care credit, which I did not take when I calculated the tax due - so she could likely have even more money in her paycheck each week.

[CountAllVotes]

34. I did once

I had lost my job and was very sick and had nothing but $100.00 in the bank. No possessions but one very old car that was worth $300.00.

I was lucky, I qualified.

Isn't that nice?

You really do not have a clue what it is like do you? It can happen to anyone, anyone, even you.

:dem: :kick:

[silverojo]

55. To answer your question

<<However, aren't food stamps meant to function as a supplement? One would assume that someone would hopefully have at least some sort of job, no? How many people only rely on food stamps as their primary income?>>

You forget, the elderly and disabled can't work...and even those FS recipients who do work have to spend that money on all the non-food expenses like rent, utilities, etc. Plus, if you make too much money (translated: very little), your food stamps are reduced.

A good example is my family's case. My mom and aunt were living off their Medicare checks, which literally only paid our rent and our bills, with VERY little left for other things. Me? I have no income, because I'm applying for disability--the case has been pending for 3 years.

(Here's the kicker--irresponsible people who have babies left and right get more benefits than someone like me, who's disabled and responsible enough not to have kids I can't support. The only cash benefits I got were $173/month for the first 18 months I was applying for disability. Since then, I haven't gotten one dime. The only reason I got any food stamps at all, is that I had to be placed on my mother's case...every 6 months, I had to get a note from my doctor saying I was unable to work, or I wouldn't even have gotten that. But if you have "dependent children", there are no such limitations--however, they still don't get very much money, and are limited as to how much they can earn at jobs.)

A good example of how even the slightest increase in income can endanger your FS benefits: Whenever my mom and aunt got a raise in their Medicare benefits ($60/month total in 2007), our family's food stamps were cut from nearly $250 to $180. In other words, our household budget was $10 LESS than it had been when they were getting less money!

So the short answer is yes, food stamps are fully intended to be your only source of food income.

It's a f***ing disgrace!

[november3rd]

19. This is an important story

The governor of Oregon was trying to do it, too, and couldn't.

The cities and governments need to hook up with csa action and feed people well while supporting local agriculture.

[erpowers]

22. The Problem

The problem with this situation might be that too much money is give to the wrong people and not enough given to other. There are some places were people can get close to $500 a month in food stamps even when they have additional income. So they have cash money to buy clothes and other things and then the food stamp to buy food. However, some other people are given very little money. I contend changes should be made so that there is not such a gap in the amount of money different people could get.

[sandnsea]

25. Maximum Allotment - $155 per person

http://www.fns.usda.gov/fsp/faqs.htm#8

[il_lilac]

28. What is this "thrifty food plan"?

"Eligible households are issued a monthly allotment of food stamps based on the Thrifty Food Plan, a low-cost model diet plan."

[sandnsea]

31. No meat, dairy or fruit

Carrots, beans, cabbage, rice, most likely.

[erpowers]

46. Maybe It Changed

Maybe it changed, but I knew someone who received almost $500 dollars a month.

[silverojo]

61. Possibilities about the $500 recipient

1) Maybe this happened before Bill Clinton destroyed welfare.

2) Maybe that person had several kids, which increases the amount of food stamps (but still boils down to the same low amount per person in that household)

3) Maybe they had an incompetent case worker who allowed this to happen

[Justyce]

108. Me too -- my niece and also a friend of

mine both get quite a bit for food stamps -- more than I usually spend in a month. But, one of them had 1 child and the other had 2 children, so maybe that has to do with the amount they get as compared to the original post, although with our family sizes being equal, they still get more than I usually spend in a month.


Edited to add: One of my uncles broke his back & had to be put on disability because he could barely get around, and when he applied for food stamps, they only gave him something like $40 a month, which I figured was because he was a single male & was really unfair. It baffles me how the system works.

[sandnsea]

116. Yes it's per person

If you have children, you get more. A person with 2 kids can get a maximum of $408.00 a month. If those are two teen-agers who don't need child care, the food stamp allotment for a mom earning $6.00 for a 40 hr job would be $300 a month. That's not "quite a bit" to feed 3 adults. And if the teen-agers go to work, their income will reduce the food stamps even more.

[grasswire]

27. see our threads over in the cooking group

We had some pretty good plans and lists over there a couple of weeks ago when the Oregon governor lived on the food stamp budget for a week.

[sandnsea]

32. Sorry, they were all garbage

It's not hard to figure out how to fill up on ramen, potatoes and eggs. It IS hard when you can't eat that stuff or you'll literally die.

[grasswire]

35. garbage for you, maybe...

...but a week's menu that many people would find filling and fairly nutritious, at least.

Did you draw up a plan? Perhaps you could post it here.

[sandnsea]

70. I said filling

But not particularly nutritious, and certainly not the kind of diet required to maintain maximum health.

No I didn't draw up a plan. I already said it's not possible to eat a truly healthy diet on $155 a month.

[Alexander]

29. Should the government subsidize healthy food choices?

And/or increase the amount of money available to food stamp users?

[proud patriot]

36. IMO ? yes

:hi:

[donco6]

72. Yes. n/t

[jpgray]

33. It's really difficult. At best you could go rice and roots with occasional lentils

It would suck, though.

[grasswire]

38. here's one take

Food stamp weekly menu for two people $21 per person per week

B toast, two poached eggs each, OJ
L tuna sandwich w/iceberg lettuce
D roasted chicken, roasted potatoes, iceberg wedge w/vinaigrette

B whole grain english muffins broiled w/cheese, 1/2 banana
L sliced chicken sandwich, apples
D black bean chili, corn bread, carrots

B cheese omelets, toast, OJ
L peanut butter sandwiches, milk
D rotini pasta salad w/garbanzos, 1/2 pkg peas-carrots, and fresh broccoli, hard-boiled eggs, vinaigrette. garlic toast.

B fried or baked potatoes with eggs, toast, OJ
L leftover pasta salad and garlic toast, apples
D stir fry chicken and veggies w/teriyaki rice and ramen noodles (use the seasoning packets for the stir fry).

B yogurts, toast, milk
L tomato soup, grilled cheese sandwiches
D leftover stir fry and rice, pudding w/pineapple topping

B english muffins with peanut butter, canned pineapple
L chicken & apple salad sandwiches
D cheesy potato soup or scalloped potatoes, fresh spinach salad

B scrambled eggs, toast, OJ
L leftover potato soup, carrots
D quesadillas, spanish rice

snacks: popcorn, roasted potato wedges, PB sandw.

There would actually be some food left over. If I had any extra dough, I would add a package of tortilla chips and/or a box of cereal. If I had to eliminate anything, I guess it would be the pineapple and the pudding.

Shopping List:

two chickens @69 cents per pound = $6

five pkg ramen noodles = $1

ten pounds potatoes = $1

gallon milk = $1 (he did get a gallon for $1)

five apples = 1.00 (schoolboy Braeburns @.78)

three bananas = .70

two pounds cheese = 5.00

frozen peas&carrots = .79

two loaves whole grain bread 3.00

tub margarine = 89

pkg farmhouse brand teriyaki rice mix 69

three dozen eggs 2.50

cornbread mix .50

bulk popcorn .50

tomato soup .50

iceberg lettuce 49 cents/head

italian dressing 1.25

peanut butter 2.00

can garbanzo beans .50

can black beans .50

can frozen OJ .99

can tuna .49

1 pound rotini $1

can mexican flavor stewed tomatoes .59

two pound pkg. fresh carrots .99

garlic .25

cheap mayo 1.25

1 1/2 pounds fresh broccoli @ .69 pound = 1.05

1 onion .25

2 house brand yogurts .50

can pineapple .79

1 bunch fresh spinach .99

pudding mix .69

tortillas .99

salsa 1.25

spanish rice farmhouse brand mix .69

Slightly over, at ~ $43.

[Doremus]

40. I don't know where you buy your groceries, but I'd like to shop there.

$1/gal. for milk?
Iceburg lettuce - 49 cents?
10 lbs. potatoes - $1?

It MIGHT be possible to get those prices here --- assuming they were on sale and one had the gas money to drive around to 3 or 4 different stores buying the loss leaders at each one.

I don't live in a high-rent state either. Ohio.

[grasswire]

41. oh, the governor got the milk for $1 with a coupon...

...so I used that price in the shopping list, because I shop at the same market. These prices were all from a Kroger-owned supermarket. A gallon of milk would normally be $1.98.

And the lettuce is always .49 per head there. And the potatoes usually are $1.39 for ten pounds, so it was a sale price.

[Doremus]

66. So ....

after the food stamp recipient compiles the weekly menu/shopping list, finds and files their coupons, traipses to all the stores with staples on sale, comes back and devises workarounds for all the ingredients out of stock/not on sale, cooks it up and eats it .... what do they do with their whole hour/day of free time? ;)


BTW, I bought a gallon of milk on the way home tonight -- $2.98. Not on sale; average going price in these parts.

[grasswire]

76. well....

...everything on the governor's list and everything on my list came from the same store, a Kroger-owned supermarket. I shop the same store every week and clip the store coupons from their newspaper ad on Sundays.

But I sure do understand what you were saying. A single parent trying to stay afloat can't be spending hours in the kitchen making bread from scratch or other such labors, and sure can't travel around town looking for loss leaders.

I feed a family with two teenagers, five adults, and a baby. On reading this thread, I'm grateful for the apparently modest grocery prices in this area. And I'm really sorry for those fighting to nourish their loved ones in other areas. It shouldn't be this way, for anyone.

[sandnsea]

91. I shop at Fred Meyer too

and to shop that list you would have to have every single item be the best sales price of the entire year. Now, if you're really on your toes you can put enough aside to build up a sale priced pantry. But that is not going to happen in one week, and it didn't happen at Fred Meyer in one week. And I haven't seen milk for $1 at Fred Meyer in so long I can't even remember. The best I've seen is when you get the selection at $3/5.00 - and that didn't happen because they bought the OJ separate.

And so you personally know, I ate that diet for 50 years and I have diabetes now. I strongly urge you to try to improve the quality of food you're buying if you can possibly manage it at all.

[grasswire]

93. the governor used a coupon for his gallon of 1% milk

But if you look in last week's ad, you will see half gallons of milk -- 3.25, 2.0, 1.0 -- for a dollar each. And you will find Vita Bee bread for 98 cents per loaf this week. Vita Bee is a premium loaf, made with whole wheat, no corn syrup, etc. Etc., etc., etc. All those prices are verifiable, and regular. I have the newspaper advertisements. The butter, the cheese, the ice cream, the cereal -- all in the newspaper ads at the prices I quoted.

And I don't live on the diet I posted. I don't consider it adequate. It was simply an attempt to do better than the governor did with his list.

We're all on the same side here, advocating for affordable, nutritious food for everyone.

[sandnsea]

94. I'm glad you don't

I'm also glad you agree that the diet isn't adequate, which is my only point to begin with. It's not too hard to fill up on ramen and potatoes and beans, and I'm honestly grateful people at least get that much. It's much harder to get real nutrition that won't destroy your metabolism. All the processed food, sends the glucose soaring. Makes me so angry they aren't telling people the truth about all this garbage on the shelves. Now they're adding "more" whole grain and 0 trans fat on the boxes - which is only going to keep people confused about buying truly healthy food. I wonder what the difference is between the amount of real wheat for whole grain bread and, what they put in white flour for a loaf of bread. Like, if it takes twice as much wheat for whole grain bread, maybe there isn't enough to feed everybody without the processed crap. I wonder if processed foods is the next big tobacco type lawsuit - if they know that stuff is causing the obesity and diabetes and not telling us.

Ramble ramble ramble... later.

[me b zola]

134. If you are in the Portland area you should try WinCo

They are much cheaper than Fred Meyers on many items. They also have a huge bulk section (many types of flour, dried fruit,beans, hot breakfest cereals, and much more!) where you can save alot of $$ on certain items. They are open 24 hrs/day but if you shop in the mornings the meat department marks down the meat that is going to be outdated; that has been a lifesaver for us a few times. Most of the fresh fruits & vegtables are considerably cheaper than FM, and they offer more choices in off brand items that also saves money. I have estimated that our food bill would be almost doubled if we shopped at FM for all of our food.

There are several WinCos in the city. The closest one to our house is about ten miles. We rarely drive the cars any more, so we do our big shopping at WinCo about once/month and just bike or walk to Fred Meyers (which is only a few blocks from the house) for any needs that pop up during the month.


Although we are careful, thoughtful shoppers and do our best to eat healthy, it is expensive to feed a family. I cook mamy things from scratch and do it as cheap as possible, but it all adds up.

[sandnsea]

135. I'm on the coast

I've just started realizing how many farms there are in the valley, so we're doing a lot more of that. Now that my kids are grown and have their own families, they are wanting to save on food too and are talking about going together on gas and bulk items to save money. I've got Safeway and Fred Meyer, and the sales are the same, just different weeks. We'll see if the cost of gas saves us anything if we go together. Chickens actually are on sale THIS week for .69 lb, maybe the melamine scare caused people to stop buying chickens. I think I'll buy about ten of them because I don't think they'll go on sale for that price again.

[SemperEadem]

178. that's lovely because milk is damn near $3/gal in DC

perhaps in where you live, you can buy like that, but in most major cities, it's nearly impossible to find those prices and the food not be well on its way to spoiled.

[Morgana LaFey]

147. yeah, and beans are way closer to a buck a can and some of

the other prices are out of whack too.

[Clovis Sangrail]

45. wow

I don't eat much of what you listed, but what I do eat from that list costs considerably more.
Based on the descrepancies I know off the top of my head I'm guessing there are others and your $43 figure isn't really in the reality ballpark.

$2.50 for 3 dozen eggs?
That's about what it costs for 1 dozen around here.

$1 for 10 lbs of potatos?
I've never seen potatos anywhere close to this ... and I eat a LOT of potatos.
A 10 lb bag around here costs more like $3
(I buy 20 lb bags at costco)

2 loaves of whole grain bread for $3.00?
ummm... the absolutely cheapest bread I can get is Western Family white.
It's about $1.50/per (.99 when it's on sale)
and that stuff is nowhere {i}near "whole grain".
Anything "whole grain" is about $3/per loaf or more.

5 apples for $1?
I haven't seen apples that cheap since I was a kid.
I pretty regularly buy a couple apples for lunch on the way to go hiking or kayaking... and I can't even remember the last time just 2 apples cost me less than a buck.

[durablend]

47. Agree with that assessment...

Even in this part of central PA (aka Pennsyltucky) which ain't rich by any stretch, you're not going to see prices that cheap unless you're either real lucky or find the outdated cast-offs before the store chucks them into the dumpster.

5 lbs of potatoes is around 4 bucks, apples are around $1.50/lb (you might get 2), eggs are around $1.50/dozen, and many of the other items on the list are much higher than what he paid (and are going up weekly!)

What really makes my blood boil are the teevee "nutritionists" (usually 30-something blond bimbos) who keep harping "Well those po'people wouldn't be fat if they ate more fruits and vegetables". One even was at a minority school showing the kiddies how great fruits such as raspberries and blueberries were so great and how they should tell mommy and daddy to buy them some.

HEY BITCH--Y'KNOW THOSE PEOPLE DON'T BRING HOME THE $100,000 SALARY YOU DO, AND JUST **MAYBE** SPENDING FIVE BUCKS ON A SMALL TUB OF RASPBERRIES (that'll go bad in a day or two) WHEN THEY PROBABLY ONLY HAVE A COUPLE HUNDRED DOLLARS A MONTH FOR FOOD JUST MIGHT BE WEE BIT SILLY WHEN THEY COULD SPEND THE MONEY ON MAC AND CHEESE OR SOMETHING ELSE THAT'LL LAST LONGER THAN 2 MINUTES.

I swear to god some of them are living in the same bubble with you know who. Maybe they should try extricating that silver spoon for a start.

[grasswire]

56. and I always thought Pennsylvania was quite fertile...

perhaps the growing season is longer out west and that makes produce cheaper. You're paying a fortune for potatoes compared to here. Apparently the "heartland" is getting fleeced by mega grocers.

[grasswire]

54. I guess Governor Kulongowski and I are lucky to live...

....in the Pacific Northwest, from what you say.

I do shop that store every week and spend a lot of money there. But I also do know, because I feed two teenagers, a baby, and five adults, exactly what is on sale and try very hard not to buy what's not on sale.

Trust me, the prices are real, and were taken the week the governor spent his $42 for two people for a week. He made a lot of mistakes. He bought pesto and honey and name brand items. I'll bet he and the missus were hungry.

[Marrah_G]

50. There is no way that would cost 43$ here, not even on sale

Actually it would be pretty close to double that.

Food and gas have gone through the roof, pay stays the same. I'm barely making it as a single mom.

[grasswire]

60. I'm really sorry to hear that.

I know, believe me I know how hard it is to feed a family on a limited budget. My best wishes to you and your kiddos.:cry:

[silverojo]

62. grasswire....

I've never seen grocery prices that low, not even at the Wal-Mart Supercenter where we shopped.

Looking over that menu, between the salt, spices, and stuff we're allergic to, there's no way our family could eat a fourth of the foods you listed.

POOR PEOPLE AREN'T HEALTHY ENOUGH TO EAT JUST ANYTHING.

[grasswire]

73. yes, everyone realizes that!

The challenge from the Oregon Food Bank was to eat on $21 per person per week. Some of us on DU made menus to try to fit that challenge. The governor made a menu and shopping list, and we tried to do better than he did, and did.

But all of us realize that living on $21 per week is a really hard diet for all Americans. That's the point of the exercise. To raise awareness.

(Of course, even at that skimpy allowance we are eating better than most of the rest of the world! But that's another topic.)

Two members of my family and a related family of four (with two children) DID take the food bank's challenge and lived on it for a week. It was very, very hard. They were hungry.

If you want to see the prices at the grocery store where the governor and I shopped, go to http://www.fredmeyer.com, select "savings" and then find the grocery pages. This week's ad is smaller than some, but I'll post next week's ad prices on Sunday.

[cliss]

89. Yes, I agree with you.

In my household, we tried the same thing. I bought whole wheat flour, bulk foods from Winco.

Now keep in mind, everything we ate was FROM SCRATCH. There was home-baked bread, casseroles, soups, gratin dinners. I had to struggle like crazy to do it.
But - it CAN be done. You gotta do a whole lotta cooking, but it's absolutely worth it.

Just imagine, sitting down at the dinner table to a big bowl of homemade Minestrone soup, a loaf of home-baked bread on the table. A yummy Vegetarian Lasagna.
We never had it so good.

[silverojo]

100. OK, grasswire :-)

I'm glad you did that experiment just to raise awareness, and not to imply that the FS program is doing just fine as it is.

Sorry I was snappish earlier today...it's just that this issue really hits me hard, since I experienced it firsthand.

I'm glad Mom and I are no longer FS recipients...but it hurts like hell to know that my aunt (who had life insurance) had to die before we could afford to get off food stamps.

For the record, I'm STILL trying to get on disability--my case is under appeal as I write this--four years after I first applied. I sold all that I could sell on eBay several years back, and we only applied for FS as a last resort. After hearing so much about the welfare "gravy train", it was quite a shock to see the reality of the welfare system.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

80. Where was that and in what year?

Those prices are a lot lower than anything I've seen lately.

[grasswire]

96. the prices are all from Fred Meyer in April 2007.

any coupons are from the newspaper advertisement.

[Forkboy]

109. Here's one for you.

In my case I don't have access to a kitchen.All my food is either cold or microwaved.That rules out nearly 80% of your suggestions.

Any others? I get $132 a month in food stamps.I have approximately $26/week cash to work with.

How about healthy ideas for someone with no way to cook outside of a microwave.

And btw,those prices are a joke around here.A gallon of milk for a dollar? Try over $3.

[spinbaby]

129. Well, here's a problem

I put the first day's menu into the handy-dandy food calculator at fitday.com.

Leaving aside that you only have around 1000 calories--low even for a weight-loss diet--it's totally deficient. For instance, you only get about 23% of your vitamin C and 15% of your daily calcium.

[True_Blue]

161. Where do you live?

I bought chicken yesterday ON SALE at .$99 per pound.
Broccoli ON SALE $1.00 per pound.
10 lbs of potatoes $2.99.
1 gal milk $2.59
Iceberg lettuce $.99 cents/head
Generic salsa $1.99
1 dozen eggs $1.29

[dropkickpa]

197. I don't particularly believe your numbers

A gallon of 2% milk runs over $3.00 here, and according to the USDA, average price for a gallon of 2% in Portland, OR for the month of April was $2.96, Seattle, WA $2.92, in fact, nationwide in 2007, Syracuse NY had the *lowest* average cost for a gallon of 2% milk at $2.70. And yet you somehow managed to get it for just $1?
http://www.ams.usda.gov/dyfmos/mib/rtl_mon_rdft_07.pdf

And you can't go over, food stamps are all there is.

Thanks for trying to raise awareness, I get so sick of hearing about how the only reason it's not enough to eat nutritiously is because people are too lazy to cook from scratch. Working 8 hours/day at a minimum wage job so you can pay for rent and bills doesn't leave a whole lot of time for home-cooking, especially when you have to depend on public transit (commute times will be doubled compared to driving), don't have a decent grocery store in reach, and don't have but the bare minimum of utensils and cookware required to survive because blowing $50 on a crock-pot or even $5 on a loaf pan would mean your lights get shut off. There's a LOT of other factors, too.

[grasswire]

39. and here's another take

This DU-er used an $84 budget for four people for two weeks.


There's a level of staples that last that have to be bought early on. (Spices, condiments, etc.)

This can all be bought at my two local groceries - King Soopers and Vitamin Cottage.

$84 - 4 people
Protein and Dairy:
2 dozen eggs 2.50
2 pounds cheese - 5.00
4 cans tuna 2.00
4 cans beans 2.00
4 pounds ground turkey 3.00
2 quarts Plain yogurt 4.00
1 pound tofu - 1.50
sunflower seeds - 1.45 - 1/4 pound, not in shell (vitamin cottage)
Dry milk - 3.00 (1/2 pound) (vitamin cottage)
1/2 pound turkey ham - 1.50
- $24.45

Vegetables:
Potatoes - 1.99 8 pounds 2.00
Lettuce iceberg - .99 head - 2 head 2.00
Tomatoes 1.39 pound (roma) 3 pounds 4.20
bananas $.49 pound - 6 pounds 3.00
Apples or pears (organic) $1 pound (3 pounds) 3.00
Onions: $1 pound (3 pounds) 3.00
Carrots - $.69 pound - 2 pounds 1.40
Frozen green beans - $1 pound 2 pounds 2.00
garlic - .50
lemon juice or lemons (cheapest) 1.50
celery - 1.50

$24.10


Carbs:
2 pound bag brown rice - 1.50 (vitamin cottage)
2 bags pasta (2 pounds each) - 1.50
$3.00

Condiments:
pickles 1.49
Ketchup .79
Mustard .79
Mayo 1.50
Olive oil 3.00
vinegar 1.00
salt - .70
soy sauce - 1.50

10.80

Staples:
Flour 5 pounds - 1.49 (Often $.99, but not always.)
Sugar 4 pounds - 1.99 (sometimes cheaper)
molasses - 2.00 (Bottle, 12 ounces. Can be used to sub for brown sugar.)
Yeast 3 pkt - 1.49
butter - 2.50 (can be margarine, if you insist. One thing I learned when poor was that the single luxury of butter made me a lot happier and I felt healthier when I used it.)
tea (bags) - 2.50
oatmeal - 2.00 (big box)
cinnamon (mexican spices section) .69
raisins - 2.00 (box)
3 cans tomatoes - 2.00 (often cheaper)
corn starch - 1.00
Vanilla flavoring - 1.00

20.69


Menu:
Make bread using long rise method. 5 loaves from 5 pounds flour. Slice one and toast for melba toast.
Make batch of hummus for snacks and lunches
Make granola/muesli with oats, sugar, molasses, raisins, sunflower seeds

Breakfast: 2 days - 1 egg, toast, banana
breakfast 2 days - yogurt, apple, granola
breakfast 3 days - French toast and fruit (syrup - sugar, molasses and water)

Lunch:
3 days - Hummus and toast points, with piece of fruit and ounce cheese.
2 days - egg salad sandwiches, carrots, cheese.
2 days - tuna salad sandwiches, carrots, cheese


Supper:
Mac and cheese with tuna, green beans.
Turkey patty melts with onions and fried potatoes, salad
Turkey meatballs with spaghetti and marinara
tofu fried rice with vegetables (carrots, onions, green beans, and celery)
Potato cakes with cheese and ham, carrot and celery salad
Porcupine balls (rice and meat with egg binder, spices), gravy, rice, whatever vegetables are left.
Bean and cheese burritos with fruit.

Desserts - sweetened yogurt (frozen or not) (vanilla, sugar)
Cinnamon toast
bread pudding
French toast

Week two gets easier, because vanilla, sugar, molasses, ketchup, mustard, tea, soy sauce, corn starch, mayo, lemon juice drop off. (Those will be replaced in weeks 16, 4, 4, 10, 5, 3, 6, 15, 7, 4)

Week two:

84 - 4 people
Protein and Dairy:
2 dozen eggs 2.50
2 pounds cheese - 5.00
4 cans tuna 2.00
4 cans beans 2.00
4 pounds ground turkey 3.00
2 quarts Plain yogurt 4.00
1 pound tofu - 1.50
sunflower seeds - 1.45 - 1/4 pound, not in shell (vitamin cottage)
Dry milk - 3.00 (1/2 pound) (vitamin cottage)
1/2 pound turkey ham - 1.50
- $24.45

Vegetables:
Potatoes - 1.99 8 pounds 2.00
Lettuce iceberg - .99 head - 2 head 2.00
Tomatoes 1.39 pound (roma) 3 pounds 4.20
bananas $.49 pound - 6 pounds 3.00
Apples or pears (organic) $1 pound (3 pounds) 3.00
Onions: $1 pound (3 pounds) 3.00
Carrots - $.69 pound - 2 pounds 1.40
Frozen green beans - $1 pound 2 pounds 2.00
garlic - .50
lemon juice or lemons (cheapest) 1.50
celery - 1.50

$24.10


Carbs:
bag brown rice - 1.50
2 bags pasta (2 pounds each) - 1.50
dry beans - 3 pounds - 2.00
corn tortillas - big bag - 2.00
$7.00

Condiments and extras:
Jelly - 2.00
Peanut butter -4.00 (big jar)
6.00
orange juice concentrate - 1.00 each - 2.00

Staples:
Flour 5 pounds - 1.49
Yeast 3 pkt - 1.49
butter - 2.50
tea - 2.50
oatmeal - 2.00
oregano (mexican spices section) .69
cumin , same as above .69
chili powder - .69
raisins - 2.00
3 cans tomatoes - 2.00

16.10

With extra 8.45 to be saved or spent.

[silverojo]

64. If I ate that crap

I'd be in the emergency room, puking my guts out, being given an anti-nausea drug so that I could swallow the GI cocktail to put out the flames of my ulcers. (I know, because that's exactly what happened when I tried to eat some cheap canned peaches to improve my diet.)

Also, your prices are complete bullshit, too. Nobody can get groceries that cheap, as has been made abundantly clear on this thread.

Walk a mile in the shoes of those who are ailing (which is usually why people are poor--duh!), and then get back to me.

[grasswire]

69. well, let's see

At the same market this week

local fresh whole chickens: 68 cents per pound

ten pounds grade A potatoes: $1.39

schoolboy braeburn apples: .98 (up from earlier .78)

whole milk $2 gallon (up from $1 the governor had a coupon for that)

grade A butter $1.50 pound

2 pound Tillamook cheese (cheddar, pepperjack, colby, monterey, etc.) $3.98 with newspaper coupon

4 12-packs of Pepsi cans $9

Breyer's ice cream half gallon $2

On the vine tomatoes 88 cents/pound

Hot house red bell peppers $1 each

English cucumbers $1 each

Whole wheat bread 22 ounce good quality .98

Jumbo King Crab legs $5.99 pound

Gatorade 8-pack 20 oz bottles $3.99

Langers apple juice 60 oz. $1.25

California strawberries 1 pound $1.50
..................................

from last week's ad:

fat asparagus spears: 1.28/pound

pork loin chops 1.49/pound

general mills or kellogg's cereals 3 for $5

XL eggs buy one get one free

store brand salad dressings 16 oz $1

store brand frozen lemonade 12 oz 2 for $1

peeled mini carrots 2 pounds $2

Progresso canned soup 3 for $5

organic bagged salads 2 for $4


I'm always interested in hearing what others are paying around the country.

[Clovis Sangrail]

104. I wanna move to Oregon now

Those prices are insane.
Based on what you've posted, I'm guessing shopping in Oregon would cut my food budget by 50% or more.

I'm not in Alaska either... I live in Ca.

[Lorien]

123. Prices are at least 30% higher for most items here in my neck of the woods

but I live in Orlando; a tourist town in a state that mostly grows citrus and beef (I eat neither).

But, either way, most of the "crap" on your list ;-) would sustain me very nicely. I have fibromyalgia so processed foods are right out. Anything that starts with raw, wholesome ingredients is better all the way around. :thumbsup:

[AndreaCG]

148. I'd like to see a flyer posted

Cause some of those prices, and ground turkey for 75 cents a pound, sound like 1997 prices. If that. 88 cent on the vine tomatoes? Was there something wrong with them?

[grasswire]

155. the plan with the ground turkey was written by another DU-er

But here is a link to the current flyer for the store that Oregon's governor and I both used for our food stamp challenge. The tomatoes were on last week's ad, unfortunately.


http://fredmeyer.inserts2online.com/customer_Frame.jsp?drpStoreID=5

[ProudDad]

165. You can double or triple

those prices for those of us living the the S.F. bay area...

[NotGivingUp]

176. holy cow! i'm getting ripped off down here in florida!

$2 for breyer's ice cream!!! it's close to $5 down here...$4.69 to be exact! lowest price on whole chicken has been 99 cents on sale. butter $2.50 on sale. tomatoes usually between $2 and $2.50. strawberries $2.50.

[diane in sf]

97. I think the food is cheaper in the west. We have three growing seasons in California

[Matariki]

121. "crap"?? That looks like good, tasty, wholesome food.

What's your idea of food that's not 'crap'?

[diane in sf]

99. This sounds good. It's like what my roommate and I would

cook when we combined our food stamps back in the 70's (we got $11 a week each). I eat less vegetarian now.

[sandnsea]

105. $11 to $39

Barely triple since the 70's. Housing has gone up 10x. Cable was $7, is $35 now. A $100 tennis shoe was unheard of. Hamburger was 49 cents, it's $2.49 now. The price of everything has skyrocketed - except for benefits and wages. I live in Oregon too, we don't have those prices in my town.

[Matariki]

42. The article doesn't say if the $28 is for one person or a family.

That's about what I spend a week without beer or wine, so I'm thinking it must be for a family? I eat *lots* of in season vegetables and fish, chicken and tofu.

[grasswire]

57. according to the Oregon Food Bank...

...the average food stamp contribution is $21 per person per week.

[Carni]

44. Who in the F can eat on 28 bucks a week?

REALLY?!

Are they freaking kidding?

You couldn't eat Ramen and drink sunny D on 28.00 per week!

Hell, we spend like 200 a week for four and we're not only shocked and appalled--we're hungry!

I guess fruits and veggies are only for *bush's base* these days.

Amerika sucks.

[durablend]

49. You'll have to excuse them...

Living on that paltry $100,000/year salary they really don't have any perspective on how the rest of the planet subsists.

[msongs]

67. sunny D is not a food its adulterated sugar water people who drink it deserve it nt

[bread_and_roses]

107. They deserve it? What arrogance. As for healthy and from scratch....

Tell it to some poor mother who's kids want something to drink that tastes good. Who can't afford real OJ.

Who can only go to one supermarket because it's the closest and she doesn't have a car, which means walking with kids in tow or once a month taking a cab for the "big" shopping when she gets her food stamps - because she can't carry twenty bags home. Who maybe spends hours taking buses if she works and has to get a child to a Day Care provider. Try cooking some nutritious organic soups on that schedule and budget.

Besides, to all you food police, most people don't WANT to eat lentils instead of meat. Their kids would gag on it. We are to ask the poorest and most stressed people in our society to stand against the entire food and advertising industry on top of their brutal schedules and starvation budgets?

And don't bother telling me about the horrors of the American diet - I know all about it and I agree. But I think it's crazed to ask welfare and low-income mothers to defy the entire culture on top of all the other stresses in their life. As for spending time and money running around to Farmer's Markets and cooking from scratch - you need time, energy, resources for that that are impossible for the poor and low-income. For that matter you need lots of cooking equipment - not a tin pot you bought in the Dollar Store. You need knowlege and skill that take time to aquire, and leisure.

[Matariki]

120. you'd be better off drinking water.

Than water flavored with chemicals, sugar and corn syrup. You think that's arrogant? But it's simple the truth. Corn syrup water isn't doing ANYONE any good.

I don't know how much 'sunny d' costs but if you can get 2 for what one carton of real juice costs, personally I'd get the real juice, just less of it.

[bread_and_roses]

132. It has Vitamin C. Which since they can't afford fresh foods and real juice....

...look, I know the stuff is vile. But it's cheap, has Vit C, the kids like it. When you are poor, that's worth something. I know households where Sunny D is a treat, for kids who havn't much in the way of treats. Or much in the way of Vit C in their daily fare.

Eating healthy takes work, money, time, energy, and committment. Money, time, and energy are already over-strained in poor households. You cannot blame poor parents for giving their kids stuff like SD and Kool-Aid. They don't have enough choices, realistically, and to demand of them that they somehow not only keep their kids fed but do so by our criteria is unrealistic and arrogant, no matter how good our intentions.

[Matariki]

174. It's Got Electrolytes! n/t

[Matariki]

68. actually

i do. well more like $30 and not counting alcohol. i don't buy much premade food though.

[tammywammy]

140. I can

I'm a single person, and I only spend $30 max at the grocery store a week. That includes toilet paper, laundry detergent and other items as well.

I purchase a lot of frozen veggies and 1 box is less than $1 and it's at least two good servings. I also have a bread machine, so I make my own bread and freeze it. I know that's a luxury, but it was given to me and while yeast was expensive the first time, it last a whole long time.

I also clip coupons and don't buy name brand stuff either (well, except toilet paper, it's gotta be Charmin Ultra). I shop at a Kroger store, not Walmart and they have decent sales.

[DotGone]

48. Some skimpy diets listed

Some of these sample diets would be starvation diets for me and I only weigh 110 lbs. They're rather skimpy on fresh fruits & veggies as well. I can't fathom eating nutritiously on $28/week. Maybe pop a multivitamin along with the rice and beans.

[Honeycombe8]

51. You're not supposed to live on food stamps for life, though.

Food stamps are intended to keep someone from starving, while they go through a period of unemployment or short-term disaster relief and such.

Still, that's not very much.

[SayWhatYo]

65. I was thinking on the same lines, but there were a couple replies to me...

They brought up situations in which people are disabled or perhaps elderly and unable to work. I see those as special circumstances that I would have assumed would have made extra money/support available, but I'm neither disabled or elderly, and can only rely on what others are saying. Based on what they are saying, it sounds as if they are in a really shitty position.

[Honeycombe8]

71. Well, I know a bit about this. My sister got food stamps for awhile.

She got more than $28, I believe. But I do know that if you are disabled, you get Social Security disability benefits, at a minimum. Of course, wealthier and actively working people possibly had disability insurance.

The elderly get Social Security wage benefits (if they paid in enough to the system).

These programs have all been cut, though. They used to be enough to sustain you better. Now, it's the bare bones minimum.

It's rough. I hope nothing happens to me that I require these programs. I'll be up a creek, with no children to help me out.

[silverojo]

102. A correction about Social Security benefits

You CAN'T get them, unless you get a lawyer, and have a good team of doctors willing to declare you're disabled. Many lawyers will NOT represent you if you're applying for SSI, because they don't make enough money from it. They'll only work with people who have been able to work, and are eligible for SSD. Someone like me, stricken down at age 22, isn't able to put enough money into SS to qualify for SSD. Even if I'm ever accepted, I'll only get around $500/month.

One of my problems is that I've only been able to go to crappy doctors (when you're on Medicaid, that's all you can get). Now, I can afford a better doctor, so I'm hoping that part of the equation will change.

It's a long, very hard fight to get disability benefits from SS. It takes years, except in very rare circumstances. So you don't automatically get SS benefits "at a minimum". The true minimum is that you end up like me--you either find someone to support you, or you end up on the street. Period.

You're right, though...a person has to worry about whether something happens to make them unable to work. I know most Americans think nothing will ever happen to them, but those who do suddenly find themselves unable to work wake up to reality in a horrible hurry.

But by then, it's too late--society no longer gives a damn about you. They just get pissed off and jealous because you have a permit that lets you have the really good parking spaces. I ought to make a bumper sticker that says, "Don't envy me for parking here--thank God YOU don't qualify!"

[sweetjake]

125. So true

I am in the same fight..been going on for over 3 years. At 38, I still look young, speak in a professional voice and smile, so the Social Security people think..."No way could she possibly be in any kind of pain!" Even though my 10-inch thick medical folder is crammed with the opinions of 7 neurosurgeons who have told them I am.
It's a constant struggle of them not wanting to put a young person on SSD and me trying to pay bills in the meantime and keep my head afloat, no food stamps, only lucky enough to have the disability payments from my former company and a lawyer they hired for me, while managing my pain.
And I know what you mean about the parking permit. I cannot tell you how many weird looks I get when I get out of a car with my cane. Again.."You can't possibly need a cane! So young!..stealing that parking space!" I used to want to scream at them that they have no right to judge me, but now I just shake my head.

[Honeycombe8]

128. Well, all I can tell you is my sister's experience with SS disability.

From having an early stroke in middle age, she got SSD fairly quickly w/o much fuss. She had no need for a lawyer. She is in a nursing home, unable to live alone. Her mind is fine. She cannot walk or use one of her arms, but cannot dress, bathe, get from point a to point b alone, etc. Dr. signed "disabled" statemetn. It took her I think 6 weeks to get the benefits, from time she applied after the stroke.

Compared to BEFORE she had the stroke. She had a number of health problems that the family thought made her disabled. But she was denied SSD.

So if someone is CLEARLY, without a doubt, disabled, they get SSD. They get SSD without ever contributing to Soc. Security.

It's those gray areas before the person is CLEARLY disabled that Soc. Sec. seems to automatically stamp "rejected."

Of course, if a person works hard all his/her adult life, has insurance....then he/she can probably get by with a combination of disability benefits from insurance, savings, help from family. This would be me, since I've worked all my life (since my teens), and I have disability insurance (hope I can keep up the payments). Upon reaching a senior citizen age, Medicare takes over. So I should be okay. Won't be living in the lap of luxury, but .... I still hope nothing happens to me like that. Hope I just drop dead one day.

[sandnsea]

137. Yes, $680 a month

That's about what the SSD is for someone who was unable to hold a job long enough to get in their social security quarters. Your sister is very lucky, sadly, that she is so sick that she needs care that Medicaid and Medicare will pay a nursing home for; otherwise she'd be trying to survive on $680 a month.

That's also the amount for someone who has the quarters, but has been both unable to work for many years and deemed not disabled by social security. You can work for 20 years, but if you get sick, but not "disabled" for 10 years, you won't have the quarters and will get the $680 a month anyway.

[kineneb]

184. similar situation

I am dealing with long-term dysthemia, and the after-effects of multiple episodes of fairly severe depression (memory loss, suicidal thoughts, etc.). I am seeing a county mental health therapist, and also their shrink to have my meds adjusted. Right now we live on Hubby's SSDI (he has renal failure and is on dialysis), which is almost sufficient to meet normal costs. But his health is declining and I am looking at being a widow in the next several years. Life did not turn out the way I expected.

I wasn't able to work to get the quarters, so I am technically not "disabled", and must apply for SSI. If one gets SSI, one is not eligible for food stamps. All I can hope for is being able to get Medicaid to cover some of my meds. I am not looking at a promising future.

[Kindigger]

150. Shitty? No kidding

I am disabled, and live in low income elderly/disabled housing. The regs are different for elderly and disabled (the elderly can have money and still live here).

They get a free lunch meeting USDA guidelines everyday. Many of them eat just because its free. If I wanted to eat too, it would cost me $6.50.

Yep its a real treat, the smell of cooking food coming up through those vents every day.

[sandnsea]

74. 40% earn less than $11.00 hr

The truth is, food stamps subsidize the labor costs for the majority of retail stores in the country. People do have to try to budget that small of an amount for food, even though they're working because their paycheck goes to rent, day care, power and transportation. This is reality for nearly half the country - and they don't vote because nobody understands how they live.

[ProudDad]

166. A LARGE number of wal-mart employees

are coached by the company how to apply for and receive food stamps.

It's part of their corporate "culture", we have to pay for their profits.

[silverojo]

101. Food stamps ARE for life

If you're elderly or disabled, and can't get out of your financial hole.

I'm one of the lucky ones who got out of the FS program...if you consider losing a beloved relative and inheriting her life insurance money "lucky". :(

[kineneb]

59. as will any low-income diet

we do the best we can, but if we rely totally on Hubby's SSDI, our food budget is around $150 for two of us. That does not go very far, especially since Hubby is living on eggs and milk right now, and neither are cheap. He is a dialysis patient, and must eat a high protien diet; he is having difficulty eating anything, so eggs and milk are what he is able to keep down.

As it is, I cut corners, and interesting fresh vegetables are a rarity (I've been eating a lot of cabbage and canned green beans). With luck, my little garden will produce tomatoes, squash and eggplants, so this summer's eating should be more tasty.

Malnutrition is still with us, it just looks different. Instead of thin bodies, the modern malnourished are fat, from eating what they can afford: high-fat foods and refined flour products.

[Endangered Specie]

82. I was under the assumption that Food Stamps

were designed to help (supplement) you pay for food, not pay for ALL your food?

[sandnsea]

86. Answered up around post #18

I cannot believe you said that after everybody has posted explaining why that is just another load of Reaganomic bullshit.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WePurrsevere]

106. IME food prices vary from area to area. This OP was in NYC where

food prices are very high to begin with. Up here in NNY food prices are higher then some of those quoted in the budget menus offered so would not be applicable here HOWEVER it's not because those figures are wrong but because they are for THAT specific area not this one or others where the COL is very different... in doing this we are comparing apples to oranges. :)

Part of the problem is that food stamps are federal with a maximum of, I think someone said, $155. per person per month and that is supposed to apply all over the country without a lot of wiggle room for areas that have a higher COL. I think we need to not only increase food stamps (and other benefits) and take into consideration the COL of where people actually live and modify what they can get accordingly.

IMO if America wants to be truly the "greatest" country we need to make sure that people who are in NEED are not going without the basics such as food, shelter, heat/elect, needed medical assistance of all kinds (dental, optical, medicines, etc as well as the "normal"), etc.

[OneMoreDemocrat]

118. Great point....

When I read that the person doing the shopping had just come out of the Associated on 14th, I thought, yeah, no freakin' kidding...you can't buy didly there with $28.00.

In my neighborhood in Brooklyn, the Associated's prices are much lower than their counterpart in Manhattan across the board.

[joe1991]

130. Been through it

Most everything has been said, but I'll add my two cents since I've been through it.
Keeping it short as possible, I went from making over 60k a year with benefits to zero after getting an ear disease (menieres).

It took me 3 years to get SS Disability. Now I can get by, but those three years were HELL.
Before the state (TX) helped me at all, I had to go through the few assets I had.

You also need to take into account the turmoil a person goes through, I was broke, raising a child alone, dealing with an illness with now no insurance, and trying to get help is an ordeal all it's own.

After a few months, the state came through with about $280 a month in a food 'credit card', (same as food stamps) and their healthcare program. That's it, my total income. My employer was nice enough to "lay me off" so I did draw unemployment for several months, but after that, I had nothing but food stamps.

Maybe there was housing or other programs that could of helped, but I didn't pursue those. Again, Luckily I had my parents to help. I moved in with them.

Out of that $280, I could take out about $60 cash which I'll bet most people do to help with other expenses. Honestly, I never tried to get by with that amount for food for me and my kid. I guess maybe I could have clipped coupons and scrapped by, I'll never know for sure.

What we did do, is go once or twice a month to the grocery store and my mom would use it to buy mostly meats and canned foods. So she used that money to help feed all of us, we never broke it down to see if it would feed just two people.

This was the main points I wanted to get across, if you see someone buying a big roast, pork chops or even steaks with food stamps, PLEASE don't assume they're "living the high life" on welfare or cheating the government.

There may be a few out there cheating the program, but by and large, those on food stamps are in desparate conditions.

I applaud those looking for ways to use that money to the fullest extent, getting this info to congress and eventually those on the program could be a great help.

Maybe we could dedicate another thread to those that have room for home gardening.
I grow my own tomatos, onions, lettuce and other veggies very cheaply. I use a compost bin and a worm box (Vermicomposting) so I don't spend money on fertilizer.
I even save my seeds for the next season, so my garden food is virtually "free".

[rucky]

127. Here's an idea:

somehow subsidize local growers' costs to provide CSA membership for food-stamp receipients. The costs would be at a wholesale level, and can be used either as a replacement or additional benefit (depending on the funding). Either way, food stamp receipients could get more & healthier for less, and farmers could get operating income for their CSA.

[Vilis Veritas]

133. Billions spent on a war.

Wasted on single use hummvees and single use Cranes.

But not enough money to feed the poor and the sick and the elderly. Right...

What would it take to eat well? For approx 36 million (current estimates?)

Break it down - 500 per month per individual = 6,000 per year x 36 million = 216 billion per year
Break it down - 400 per month per individual = 4,800 per year x 36 million = 173 billion per year
Break it down - 300 per month per individual = 3,600 per year x 36 million = 129 billion per year
Break it down - 200 per month per individual = 2,400 per year x 36 million = 86 billion per year

Cost of Iraq war? 400 billion to date. Estimated economic impact: 1 trillion to date.

1 trillion / 4 = 250 billion...hmmm.

So lets see, we feed people good food, get them healthy and give them a better quality of life and it costs us about the same as it does to 'do' war. Benefits us all and actually saves lives.

What am I missing...oh yea, power. Damn.

[Kade]

136. I was on food stamps last year....

...in New York City (Manhattan, UWS) as an AmeriCorps and let me tell you, it's a joke. I was actually teaching nutrition to inner city kids and found that I couldn't even practice what I was preaching. I'm originally from Tacoma, WA by way of OR and so when I found out I'd be receiving about $150 a month in Food Stamps as part of my AmeriCorps service, I was pretty stoked. Ya, that was until I found out that things like apples cost as much as $2.99 a pound. I was constantly maxing out my food stamps well before the end of the month. The only way I could stretch them was by living off of Top Ramen and PB & J sandwiches. Fruits and veggies were often limited to carrots and apples. Needless to say that my sodium levels went through the roof and I was always trying to get more Iron and protein.

Some of the other AmeriCorps members I was serving with were Vegetarians, Vegans, and/ or had severe food allergies. They almost never made it more than 15 days with their Food Stamps since they had to shop in the "specialty foods" sections which pretty much meant they were paying double for everything. We tried every trick to try and cut costs from Farmers Markets, to joining Co-OPs, to even using services like Fresh Direct. Unfortunately most places didn't accept food stamps, or if they did (like the farmers markets) they needed the paper vouchers since they weren't equipped to handle our swipe cards.

I won't even get into how hard it was to get Food Stamps in the first place, suffice to say that I have never been made to feel so belittled in my entire life as when I visited the Social Services offices. For anyone who has ever been put through that process, I'm so sorry. To this day I carry with me the shame, not for myself but for others, of how this country treats those in poverty.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

139. Welcome to The Reality.

The stories I can tell about the shame, the humiliation, the depression...The whole system is fucked. Rotten, broken, screwed. And any social worker or job counselor will tell you just that.

[Neecy]

146. I hear you...

Back in the 1980's, the company I worked for went under and all of us in the office - not large, about 6 - were thrown out into the street.

We went to the unemployment office in Orlando together and it was horrible. The place was filthy - filthy - and we were spoken to like bums who were trying to milk the system. They took us to see a little movie that reinforced our loser status and they showed it on a big bed sheet that was tacked up to a wall - like we weren't even good enough for a cheap-ass screen. The whole atmosphere was so seedy and disgusting that you felt degraded just walking in. And they mean for it to be that way, I'm certain.

I can only imagine how horrible they make it for people who were even worse off than we were. I'll never forget that disgusting office and the nasty, officious way we were treated for I guess committing the 'crime' of losing our jobs through no fault of our own.

[liberal renegade]

156. pretty soon will all be on foodstamps

because the price of gas is going to make that a fucking reality...

[Jack_DeLeon]

159. Bag of rice, bag of frozen vegetables...

I've been eating that for the past week cause I've decided to quit wasting so much of my money on food. Going to try to limit eating out to once a week or so.

[woo me with science]

160. hmm

someone didn't get the memo, i guess.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x6523099

[DarbyUSMC]

162. Perhaps someone already mentioned this. Sorry if I'm repetitious. Food Stamps

are to supplement the food budget ~~~~~ as in, add to it. They were never intended to be the only way eligible people would buy food. For instance, my income is under $1000 a month and I'm eligible for about $79 in Food Stamps. I have the highest medical allowance allowable when calculating the budget (due to the insurance premiums I pay); my utilities are included in the rent (which is reduced for Seniors and disabled people who qualify), otherwise, were my rent higher and/or I paid utilities, I would get more Food Stamps. When my income goes up at all (once a year by a few dollars) the Food Stamps go down. Everything is even with the board so there is no getting ahead of the game. (When the insurance goes up, the rent goes down about equally.) It's all in how you play the game. If you have no habits to support, you can have money left at the end of the month. That isn't the case with most people though, as I can attest having worked for Social Services here in upstate NY for many years before my kidneys died twenty years ago.

[hyphenate]

167. Been there, done that

It's not as hard as you think if you do several different things which some people are not going to understand.

1) Very little meat of any kind. Chicken breasts can be cut up for soup, stir-fry or other such uses. No main dish, however.

2) Spices are essential, and salt is not one of them. Using vinegar, oil, worcestershire sauce etc., you can marinate veggies and meat to make them less bland, and certainly more interesting. It also works well if you change your basic "hamburger" to basic "turkey burger" and want to make either a meatloaf or meatballs.

3) Store coupons. Can't live without them.

4) Buying in bulk. Get ye to a Costco and see if you can save money on bulk purchases. You won't have to buy the same products every month, and can therefore put more variety in your diet.

5) Buy flour and make your own bread. Saves a bundle!

6) Read newspaper circulars every week, and figure out what you can purchase on discount.

7) Give up soda and Ding Dongs. Give up on gourmet coffee. Give up on convenience foods as much as possible.

8) For a quick meal, and ONLY then, get Ramen noodles. To make them less salty, I pour the boullion into the water and boil the noodles in the broth. I remove them from the broth to eat them, with a lot less sodium content.

9) I've bought a lot of produce at times, and find sometimes it's a waste of time and money. Now, I try to only buy produce when I have a desire for it right away, making less of it go to waste.

10) If possible, make out a menu ahead of time, and only buy the items on your list. It keeps your eyes from looking at too many other temptations.


I'm living alone, and since I was raised in a relatively big family (6), I learned to cook in bulk. I make large pots of pasta sauce, for one thing, and then freeze jars of it for later use. I make soups/stews and do the same. If it can be frozen, it is. My mom used to go to the butcher's and buy soup bones for soup. Long lasting produce makes it easier sometimes, without the fear that something is going to go bad before it's used.

My average food bill a month is less than $150 a month. Sometimes it's a bit more, on the months I can get to Costco, but the following month usually makes up for it with less money necessary for food. My breadmaker comes in handy, and I always look for bargains. If I pick up what I call a "luxury item," I weigh whether it's worth it to get it or not. Sometimes, rewarding yourself with something makes staying on a financially imposed diet a lot easier to bear.

[joe1991]

168. you have some good ideas

but a few problems for the extreme poor:

Buying in bulk - costs more at first.

Coupons - most come from magazines and newspapers. unaffordable to someone scraping by.

Making meals then freezing - most poor can't afford a large freezer and the small one in an icebox is usually filled already with ice and a few packs of frozen foods

Using a breadmaker - again that's a luxery item a poor person likely couldn't afford.

[hyphenate]

170. I AM a poor person

I'm living on disability--you can barely get more poor than that. And when I was receiving full food stamps, I was attempting to live on $300 a MONTH. That's not poor, that's almost homeless. I've been at the bottom, and know from experience. Most people would like to say they're poor, but I dispute some of their stories. I know what it's really like to try to subsist on next to nothing, and there are many I think who would be put out by cutting down on so-called "luxury" things, like cell phones, ipods and designer jeans.

My own experience has taught me that there are few things that are truly necessary in our lives, but what we feel we can't do without will often define for us our priorities in life.

[shrike]

179. You can make bread without a breadmaker, anyway

Just do it the old-fashioned way, kneading.

I got quite an education the first time I made bread, like how and how not to add the yeast.

[hyphenate]

182. Very true

My grandmother was a fabulous cook (she did it for a living, too) and many days we spent learning different dishes from her. However, I don't have the space or the ability to spend a lot of time making bread (I can't stand up for very long periods of time, for one) so I got spoiled with the breadmaker. It was certainly not an expensive item--at $35, it is used quite often, and has already paid for itself a couple of times over. My next purchase that I'm working toward is a Pizzazz pizza machine, which is about $50 right now. I have to take things slow, though, and watch the expenses.

[shrike]

183. Oh, bread machines are wonderful things

But I was just pointing out that one could do without, if budgets were that tight.
The pizza machine sounds fabulous. Wish I were that ambitious.

If I may point out one other thing that can be done: grow your own vegetables, even if it's just tomatoes in a pot. Almost anything can be grown in a pot, even berries. Depends on how much room you have on your patio.

The people at the family-owned-and-operated garden center say you can just use plain old black dirt, maybe mix in some cow manure. Much, much cheaper than the potting mixes, and more organic, too.

[sandnsea]

185. Nutritiously

With the 5 servings of fruits and vegetables a day that people are supposed to have. It's already a given that people can eat starch cheaply. Also, turkey burger is $4.00 lb where I live. It's not the 80's anymore.

[jpgray]

186. People survived for thousands of years without 5 servings of fruit/veg per day

You won't live to be eighty-five, but you'll live a long time with somewhat less than five per day.

[sandnsea]

187. So pay it out in health care instead

How smart is that?

[jpgray]

188. Those bad diets that lasted thousands of years didn't really include health care either

While your health won't be optimal, missing out on the 5 servings a few days a week isn't probably going to make or break you. Standardized nutrition necessarily makes for some arbitrary recommendations--my grandfather ate fruit about once a month and lived to be eighty-four. And he lived on Ancient Age and cigarettes. :D On $25 a week, one could eat healthier than he did for sure. That's not to say it's easy or at all desirable to live that way, but it's at least possible to survive on.

[sandnsea]

189. Just cancel all assistance

and join the Republicans. Back on ignore for you.

[Blue-Jay]

190. That's kind of a weird response, if you don't mind me saying so.

You weren't being insulted by the previous poster. Not that I could see, anyhow.

[sandnsea]

194. I didn't say I was

I have a low tolerance for Democrats who sound like Republicans on economic issues in particular. I've read some pretty snobby things at DU over the last few years. I put repeat offenders on ignore, pretty quickly. I can go to some right wing board to read about the government 'largesse' and the lucky duckies who benefit.

[ProudDad]

171. Imagine

Imagine a society where every person by right of birth has a decent place to live, enough to eat, health care and self directed work to do. Imagine living gently on the Earth and in concert with our fellow creatures.

The problem is NOT an insufficiency of resources (yet), it's a matter of distribution of resources.

Capitalism ain't gonna get us there.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

181. There was a report on NPR about this...

Isn't one of the reps from Illinois also participating in this?
Duckie

[gorbal]

195. As somebody who has done that for a while

Not on foodstamps just having very little each month to pay for food. (I probably would qualify) I tell you it's a learned skill that you can't expect somebody who hasn't done it for a long time to master.

Not that I disagree with the idea that it is an unrealistic amount of money to base a good diet on-I just get sick of people who aren't USED to living on a low income telling people how hard it after throwing themself in the lifestyle willy-nilly. It's a great attention getter that doesn't paint a realistic picture.

[carly denise pt deux]

196. It's expensive to eat healthy

I can buy prepackaged food and it doesn't cost nearly as much as if I made the same product by hand, controlling what I put in it, cutting down on fats etc, by making it myself. As for fruit, it's unbelieveable the price of fresh fruits and vegetables. Gas, fresh food, is sucking my paychecks away, what is happening in this country?!

Carly