US Muslims more assimilated than British

[T_i_B]

Source: Guardian

Muslims in the United States are much more assimilated into society than Muslims in Britain and elsewhere in Europe, according to a poll published yesterday.

The detailed survey, conducted by the Washington-based Pew Research Centre, found that American Muslims tended to have a better standard of living than their counterparts in Europe and were more comfortable with a society in which a majority believed in God compared with secular Europe.

Farid Senzai, an adviser on the survey and director of research at the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding, said: "The news overall is overwhelmingly positive. The Muslim community here is less ghettoised than in Europe."

Andrew Kohut, president of the Pew Research Centre, told a press conference that the estimated 2.4 million Muslims living in the US were "decidedly American in outlook", believing that hard work could lead to advancement.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2085998,00.html

[rodeodance]

1. Nice to know something is going good.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Most Muslims I know

who have come from other countries are professionals, mainly doctors, who set up practice in small towns in the Midwest that couldn't attract an American born doctor. The towns are grateful for the expertise and service they get from their doctors, and the doctors enjoy a comfortable lifestyle that allows them to help people. Funny thing, even here in the reddest part of Arkansas, the Muslim doctors are thought of as doctors and not as Muslims--in fact, many folks in the town where I work don't even realize that the local Muslim doctor IS Muslim-he is just from "overseas".

[Malidictus Maximus]

4. My enemy is not Islam, or Muslims;

It is Sharia law. I have Muslim friends, no problem with ANYONE practicing their religion (or lack thereof), just don't require others to live by it and we (most Americans) are cool; start telling me it's the Truth by which *I* must live than you become the enemy, be it Islam, Pentecostalism, or Paganism. Admittedly I live in rather liberal northern California, but have much family in Montana and the attitude there is the same - it ain't the person, or even what the Books says, it's only when it crosses over into telling other people how they must act that most of the Americans I know get nasty.

[Orrin_73]

6. Why do you hate the sharia?

The muslims of spain practiced sharia law yet they were the most tolerant country, the ottoman empire that saved the jews from spain and was very tolerant was also ruled by sharia law. There is nothing wrong with the sharia law, it is being demonized by western media.

[Vexatious Ape]

7. Nothing wrong with sharia?

Do you think sharia law is fair to women?

[Orrin_73]

13. It is fair to women but the some people enforce their own

laws as sharia. A non muslim does not see the difference between them. Most laws in saudi arabia are laws that were made by the wahabists and is not sharia.

[Malidictus Maximus]

19. Please tell me where Sharia is enforced 'properly' today?

Thanks.

[Orrin_73]

24. The only country that "comes" close to enforcing the

sharia is Malaysia. No other country is enforcing it.

[Malidictus Maximus]

8. Too many reasons to list

-Politics and religion should NOT be as one ("Sharia deals with ALL aspects of day to day life). There is no way one could implement Sharia without at least trying to put restrictions on things that are none of the business of any state, no matter how tolerant.

-It is the result of a 'received' religion, therefore as far as *I* am concerned anyone adhering to it is deceived at best. I do not overtly disrespect religious people, that doesn't mean I don't think that religion (or any Absolute believe including Marxism or any capital 'T' truth) is the main cause of all the misery the world has ever seen.

-It treats women, gays, and infidels differently. This, to me is so evil that any philosophy even suggesting it should be eliminated. ONE set of laws for EVERYBODY, anything else is intolerable and should be violently resisted. One set of rights for all humans; ANY law or philosophy proposing elswise should be wiped from the face of the earth.

Apologies to moderators if this belongs elsewhere. And I mean no direct offense to people in what they practice or believe, it's just that as soon as they ask *ME* to believe, or to act (or not act) in a certain way because of THEIR beliefs that I have to right to question, ridicule and resist.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. As I said before,

I don't care what you believe. And any Muslim I know personally in the US doesn't care either. You are implying that Muslims in the US are working for some sort of Sharia state, which isn't the case. Sufis are to follow the laws of the country where they live and are forbidden to recruit members. Our whole philosophy is one of live and let live. Just wanted to state this very clearly.

As for how other countries operate--hey, I have no more control over them than you do.

[Malidictus Maximus]

18. No, I'm not.

as I clearly said, I don't regard Muslims as the enemy, or indeed as anything other than fellow human beings. Nor do I think that Islam is any different than any other faith. Only to the extent that anybody tries to interject their religious beliefs into the laws of society do I think they should be vehemently resisted.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

21. Well, I'll agree with that n/t

[Orrin_73]

14. read my previous post

[Malidictus Maximus]

17. If you mean the Muslims of Spain

The fact that Sharia was practiced in a peaceful and effective manner hundreds of years ago thousands of miles away doesn't make me any less resistant to even the suggestion that it should be enforced or followed now.

[Marrah_G]

28. Nothing wrong with Sharia Law?

Have I entered the twilight zone?

[Odin2005]

31. WTF?

Sharia is nothing but a collection barbaric tribal codes of pre-Islamic Arabia given religious backing by Muhammad.

Muslim Spain was only tolerant by comparison with the early West.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. None of the doctors I'm talking about

insist on anyone in this country follow any law except the US Constitution. None of the Muslims I know that live here feel any differently than the doctors. Hey, I don't even try to convert anyone--Sufis don't do that!

[Orrin_73]

16. ayeshahaqqiqa, what order do you belong?

Im familiar with the naqshibandi's, kadiri's and others.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

20. I belong to two orders

Helveti-Jerrahi and Sufi Order International, which has its roots in the Chisti Order.

[Orrin_73]

25. Do you know the Halfeti order originated in Turkey

in the city of Halfeti. Some of my cousins are members of sufi orders.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

30. Yes

Nuradin Jerrahi founded his branch in the mid-1700s. I have the book "Love is the Wine" by a shaykh of the order. I have heard that members of this order are musicians for the Mevlevis when they have Sema.

[Marrah_G]

29. I was just going to say the same thing

I've yet to meet a Muslim American who was preachy or wanted to turn the US into Saudi Arabia. I'm sure there are a few onclaves of fundies out there, like with most religions, but I've not met one yet.

[BurtWorm]

3. I thought the headline read, "US Muslims more assimilated than Bush"

:patriot:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. Well, that's the truth, isn't it?

I mean, more American Muslims know how to speak proper English and behave in public than the chimp, right? Great comment!

:rofl:

[Prophet 451]

5. I'm sure that's true

The area I live in has a fairly large Muslim population, mainly first or second generation immigrants and while actually violent incidents are rare, there is a certain amount of "aloofness" (wrong word but I can't put my finger on the right one). The Muslim population mainly congregates in their own areas of town (I'm not saying whose fault that is, if it's anyone's fault) and we occasionally get rumours that gangs of Muslim youths are raping white women who walk through those areas at night (all completely untrue).

Of course, it doesn't help that I live in the Midlands and the BNP (fascist racists of the "pity me, the poor white man" variety) actually hold seats on nearby councils. They raised a stink and spread rumours about the planned building of a new mosque in the area. They publicised the fact that the mosque would be paying a "peppercorn" land rent, meaning about a quid a year and most of the populace are ignorant enough that they don't realise that's standard for religious buildings. For the record, my only objection is that I don't think the parking space allocated is going to be big enough for the congregation.

It's a question which has been and still is being pondered at length here.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. Thanks for this interesting contrast between Britain and the US

I have lived my life in the Midwest and Mid-South, mostly in very small towns. The doctors who live there are on the high end of the social scale-and people are very grateful they are there. When I lived in Ft. Worth, I was connected to the Muslim community there-professionals but also businessmen. They were always friendly to us, as were the Somali immigrants who live in Minneapolis who we visited. Now both groups tended to stick together, mainly because they could speak their native language. But their children were like regular Americans as far as I could tell in that they were members of the high school band, were in school clubs, etc.

[DemExpat]

15. The clue IMO is how Muslims are "processed" into society.

Andrew Kohut, president of the Pew Research Centre, told a press conference that the estimated 2.4 million Muslims living in the US were "decidedly American in outlook", believing that hard work could lead to advancement.

In the US the Muslim community is just another group of incoming immigrants wanting a better life - "come in, work hard and your future is in your hands" attitude - while in Europe their large and growing presence is more visible than other groups, and generous social welfare here has coddled them far too much. There really is no pressing need to enter society and fight/work for a place in it, as social welfare will take care of you.....

Unfortunately this has gone too far in The Netherlands, resulting in many Muslims not feeling any need to assimilate.

The point about Muslims feeling more comfortable in a country with more "believers" (of any religion) like in the US I can understand as well - Dutch culture with its euthanasia, legal prostitution, gay marriages, waning religiousness of Christians, tolerant drug and alcohol policies, general progressiveness, etc. totally disgusts many of the more conservative Muslims here.

DemEx

[silverojo]

22. ANYBODY is more assimilated than British Muslims

The Muslims over there are Special Interest #1.

[gorbal]

23. You will all asimilate, whuhahahahahahah!!!

Doesn't that sound like something some evil alien Borg would say?

[JCMach1]

26. This is true across Europe... the racism I saw there shocked me the most

of anything else during my visits.

Even here in the UAE where I live, the British create their own little Raj in Jumeirah and rarely mix with different races or classes...

While the U.S. has problems, they are much less than what I saw in Europe.

[dmallind]

27. I've lived in both and can see some intuitive possible reasons for this.

1) There are a lot more Muslims in the UK in terms of percent of population, and they tend to be concentrated in specific neighborhoods (the house I moved into when I first left home was one of only two inhabited by whites in a 500-home estate/subdivision for example). This makes it much easier to not HAVE to assimilate, since you live work and play amongst other Muslims. Many shops and businesses in the area had bilingual or even Urdu-only signage.

2) For the most part US Muslim, or at least US Asian Muslim, immigration is from highly skilled professions and upper classes, certainly compared to the UK, where it was often the poorer and lower class who came in after WW2 and through the 70s and 80s (and still today of course, but in rel;atively lower numbers).

3) Despite the idea of Europe that some (not all) Americans have as a touchy-feely socialist paradise, it seems to me to be more acceptable in real life there to be racist, and many people are - of all races to boot. Politicians mouth nice mantras, but you see far more UK youths going "paki-bashing" than you see US youths going around beating up Muslims or any other minority. The ultra-nationalist parties have won a few elections too, mostly at the local level. Not exactly going to encourage Mr and Mrs Patel to swing by the local council picnic.

4) England especially but elsewhere in Europe too has a much more prevalent undercurrent of "reverse snobbery" where people take pride in being ill-educated, reactionary and socially regressive simply because that proves they are "the salt of the earth" not a "namby pamby stuck up toff". Not exactly unknown in the US of course, but much less prevalent IMO, and understandably so given a less rigid class system for most of American history (although changing now it seems). For these folks, being at least verbally racist is a badge of identity and honor, whether they really harbor any great malice or not. Obviously it's hard for the immigrants to tell the difference, and so they continue to band together for protection and be less likely to mingle freely in a threatening culture.

Note that none of these opinions is universal, and thus cannot be disproven by specific examples of the contrary. Neither do I have any great data to back up anything but point 1. These are opinions after all.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

32. I grew up around alot of muslims,

most of whom were at the time very recent arrivals from Iran, but also some Iraqis and Syrians and by the time my cohort had reached high school they were all thoroughly assimilated and appeared atleast to have quite enthusiastically embraced life in Southern California and significantly secularized in their day to day lives.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Odin2005]

34. I think the reason for this is obvious.

The US is a nation of immigrants, thus we can deal with immigration much better in general then Europe does. Also, we don't have the notions of "blood and soil" connecting ethnicity, race, and location as in Europe; this also helps immigrants, especially immigrants from non-western parts of the world, assimilate.