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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 04:54 PM
Original message
Chavez Again Warns Opposition
Source: Prensa Latina



Caracas, May 29 (Prensa Latina) President Hugo Chavez warned on Tuesday that "the State will not tolerate, right under its nose, any instigation for people to violate the law, ignore authorities and kill the president in order to generate chaos."

We are obliged to act, and we call on everyone to consider their actions and assume responsibility for them, said Chavez, after accusing private Globovision TV of promoting a campaign to manipulate the population.

He recalled that Globovision recently incited to assassination and is now manipulating the audience"s feelings, "which is a characteristic of fascism," he said.

The president called on the people to be alert to defend the revolution "from the new fascist charge," and advised Globovision to "consider carefully how far it wants to go" with its behavior.







Read more: http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID=%7B36CC0F8F-66DE-40C4-94A4-30C8AE32A0C9%7D)&language=EN
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Show me a dictator...
...who didn't make excuses when he started taking away everything.
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Flanker Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. There have been violent protests in Caracas
With more police injured than opposition... people with riot gear and still 17 injuries from bricks, molotovs and guns.

The government does not need excuses to establish order from violent chaos.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Awesome.
See what happens when people get pushed too far?
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Flanker Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. So you support violence?
That is sad.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yep. n/t
Edited on Tue May-29-07 05:46 PM by LoZoccolo
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Flanker Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Well sadly you will be disappointed in the long run
nm
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. The opposition, if they follow your path, will totally collapse.
I imagine that they will, impotent in the face of popular rejection in the polling places. They cannot come to terms with the impending loss of class privilege. How sad.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. More likely there will be massive brain drain and Venezuela will become a pit.
Edited on Tue May-29-07 08:42 PM by LoZoccolo
How long before you think Mr. Castro-Lite stops letting people leave?

The path they are following, against human rights and democracy...how many times has that worked?
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. China lets people leave, why wouldn't Venezuela?
I don't comprehend why you think that would happen. People can serve their countries out of a sense of patriotism or common good, not just self-interested material wealth.
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
39. Obviously he does.
Look in every Chavez thread and you'll see him, popping in and sprinkling the discussion with clever little one-liners.

He just makes me want to move to Venezuela.
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BornagainDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
48. You mean when fascists get pushed to far don't you?
:shrug:
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. hmmmm.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. hmmmm.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. uh huh
Edited on Tue May-29-07 07:43 PM by ohio2007
first was the wrong link. Wanted this one;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTT66b2M8TA&mode=related&search=

watch close the cast of characters
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. They shouldn't have fucked with Bill Clinton.
Because it made me not want to watch the rest. So I didn't.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. crack heads tend to have a short attention span
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StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Reports on that TV station
According to a Venezuelan expert on MSNBC's Tucker show the station closed down show faked footage of Government Police killing anti-Chavez protesters, aired only anti-Chavez footage and operated in a fashion that would be called manipulation at a level considered treasonous if it occurred in the U.S. Other south American leaders have done the same thing in recent years according to the source interviewed.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I'd like to see who this "expert" is.
Because these far-left apologists for him have a way of trying to mess with peoples' heads. So what if they only showed anti-Chavez footage? He now has two stations he can air all the official state propaganda he wants! You think he's showing any anti-Chavez footage?
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Flanker Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. That "left-wing" apologist
Is everyone that knows the truth and does not incite violence like you do.
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Socal31 Donating Member (707 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #11
37. If I see
One more Chavez apologist I might puke.
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StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Puke then
Edited on Wed May-30-07 08:47 AM by StClone
Apologist? Obviously unaware of the U.S. history in South America?

Chavez is no Saint but he has walked a fine line between aiding his country while fending off the International Corporateers. I understand your confusion. Chavez is painted as a nutty Leftist thug by most American news sources because he is, along with other S. American countries, taking back their sovereignty. Pretty soon there will be "Little Caracas" just like "Little Havanas" in Florida where you can visit with your brothers.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. Takes one to know one
He recalled that Globovision recently incited to assassination and is now manipulating the audience"s feelings, "which is a characteristic of fascism," he said.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Heh, there's another part of that same quote that is revealing as well.
He recalled that Globovision recently incited to assassination and is now manipulating the audience"s feelings, "which is a characteristic of fascism," he said.
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
15. So, when will the 're-education' camps be built?
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Never, just like in the USA. Sometimes the chickenlittleism in DU makes my head hurt. -nt
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
16. Next step: round up and "disappear" the leaders of the opposition
Edited on Tue May-29-07 08:16 PM by robcon
We've seen this in dictatorships all over the world.

A "state of emergency" will be declared. Opposition will be outlawed (as it basically is now) and any anti-government meetings, printed materials, rallies or internet sites will be crushed.

More private property will be confiscated 'in the name of the people' and Venezuela will sink into the same rat hole as Zimbabwe.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
17. Chavez is a good leader.
I wish that progressives in this country - within our constitutional framework - would wield power like he is within Venezuela's legal framework. It is wonderful that democracy has been radically expanded in Venezuela, but at the same time, it's important to keep all manner of pressure on the coup elements and far right putschists.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. Good leader, yep, that could be his dictator name.
All praise "Good Leader".
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. Empty snarkiness. He's no more a "dictator" than FDR.
Edited on Wed May-30-07 12:56 AM by David__77
The Bolivarian socialist program is similar to the Rooseveltian New Deal. It's about confronting economic royalists and speculators who are raping the working people. It's about promoting the common good over the good of the robber baron and economic parasite.
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mediawatch Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #32
56. so life must be good for you in venezuela
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #32
57. You don't see many real Democrats wildly rabid about F.D.R., do you?
That was something completely festering away within the American right-wing. They never came to terms with him.

(I think they've become infatuated with Harry Truman, though. He won their hearts by bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki.)
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hogwyld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #17
36. We could really ram through some Socialist policies. n/t
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
18. It is up to the Venezuelan people...
to decide if they want to keep Hugo as president. We Americans need to butt out of other countries' business and pay more attention to our own.
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badgervan Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Amen To That
Of course it'll never happen, but you are correct.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. It is happening, Badgervan.
Edited on Tue May-29-07 08:59 PM by roamer65
20 years ago Hugo would absolutely have been overthrown in a CIA sponsored coup. But now with the downfall of the American empire, "self-determination" is breaking out all around Latin America. I like it and let's hope it continues.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. In a way, I think Hugo is a stumble for them in Venezuela...
they'll become suspicious of power soon, and that'll be the start of real democracy.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. I agree with you completely, but there is value in debating this amongst ourselves...
hopefully our speech will not hurt them.

I fear, however, that speech will not be the only response of the CIA and the national security establishment here in America, even though Chavez is bad, these people have to figure that out for themselves. They aren't children, and they deserve the respect that equals do.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-29-07 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
26. Free speech and corporate speech are not the same thing.
If we could be free of CNN, Faux News, ABC, NBC, CBS, and fascist corporate radio, deny them licenses to use OUR public airwaves, for their irresponsible coverage of the war and other failures to use our PUBLIC airwaves in the public interest--as we have a RIGHT to do, as a sovereign people licensing out the limited TV/radio bandwidth--and busted up their corporate news monopolies, and gave those lienses to use our PUBLIC airwaves to smaller, more creative, more intelligent news organizaions, for the sake of diversity and encouraging responsible journalism, would free speech be harmed, or enhanced?

RCTV and Globovision (if they get de-licensed as well) will be no loss to Venezuelan democracy, political life or principles of free speech. They were both in league with the violent military coup plotters, and there is lots of evidence that those plots are still alive (for instance, the rightwing candidate for president in the last election felt obliged to publicly disavow the latest coup plot, to destabilize the country after Chavez's big reelection victory and once again involve the military in a shutdown of the elected government). In the '02 coup attempt, they not only kidnapped Chavez and threatened his life, they shut down the elected National Assembly (Congress) and the court system, and suspended the Constitution. Can you imagine what THAT fascist crew would have done to free speech in Venezuela?

And RCTV and Globovision supported this!

Good riddance to them! Long live REAL free speech!
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. In you opinion, is there any legitimate opposition in Venezuela?
(i.e. non-CIA sponsored)
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #31
53. Yes. There is also quite a lot of diversity, argument and dissent within the
Edited on Thu May-31-07 02:22 AM by Peace Patriot
Chavez government and on the left. I've been watching the rightwing opposition in Venezuela quite closely. For the most part, they have acted extremely foolishly--or some of them have--for instance, supporting a violent coup attempt, boycotting the last by-elections (what a totally stupid move), accepting money from the Bush government (our money!) in violation of Venezuelan law, and crying "stolen election!" every time Chavez and his supporters win. Venezuelan elections are the most highly monitored elections on earth, and have been unanimously declared open and aboveboard by the Carter Center, the OAS and EU election monitoring groups. They use electronic voting, but it is an OPEN SOURCE CODE system (unlike our own)--anyone may review the programming code by which the votes are counted--and they furthermore handcount a whopping 55% of the ballots, as a check against machine fraud (know how much WE handcount? 0% to 1%!). So the opposition just made fools of themselves. I thought this was very unfortunate. A good, loyal, patriotic opposition is NEEDED in Venezuela. But the opposition just comes off as a bunch of rich spoiled brats, used to being handed power and wealth--and some of them most certainly are rightwing thugs and fascists, who don't care who or what they trample on to gain power.

That said, there is a legitimate CENTER in Venezuela (I really can't say that the rightwing is legitimate--they've been so bad, disruptive and in some cases lawless and violent). The center would align with the middle and upper-middle class business people, and some of the professionals, who may well have much to contribute to this effort of the Chavez government and the Venezuela people to achieve fairness and hope for the vast poor population, and to create a mixed socialist/capitalist economy. The Bolivarian notions of Latin American sovereignty, self-determination and regional cooperation are also no bad deal for the middle class, and for business people and professionals. In Argentina, for instance, the ravages of World Bank/IMF policy hurt EVERYBODY, and Argentina didn't recover until it paid off its World Bank debt with VENEZUELA's help--which has led to the creation of the Bank of the South, which promises to bail out Bolivia, Ecuador and Paraguay as well. These are very positive developments. They are creating a healthy business climate in the region.

Venezuela's centrists need to shed these crazy rightwing, Bushite-type leaders and troublemakers, and establish a more positive program. I noted that the opposition candidate for president in the last election, who lost badly, nevertheless had the grace and good sense to disavow yet another military coup plot, planned for just after the December election. That seemed to me to be the beginning of a more positive and patriotic opposition. There will inevitably be continued conflict in South America, between rich and poor, because there has been such enormous injustice, but these new, democratic, peaceful, leftist governments--throughout the region--provide hope for a PEACEFUL resolution of these conflicts. The moneyed class, the business people, the professionals and the middle class should be GRATEFUL that the poor of South America are not guillotining them--really, they have much cause--and instead want...schools, medical care, jobs, land for growing food... and a rightful say in their own fate. They want DEMOCRACY! They have been terribly neglected and shunted aside, and could not therefore contribute to creating general prosperity and a good society. Give them a chance, and they WILL. They are chafing at the bit to improve their lives. You should read the accounts of what adult literacy programs in Venezuela have meant to poor people. Remarkable transformations are occurring.

As Evo Morales--the first indigenous president of Bolivia--has said: "We want partners, not dictators." What a mild and beautiful statement, after all that the indigenous have suffered in Bolivia! Partners! A partnership with the have's.

I think there is much hope in South America---and Venezuela has been a major player in creating that hope. The rich, who have yearned to be dictators and overlords, need to give those kinds of goals up, and start cooperating with fairer, cleaner government. They are fools to fight it! A society in which everyone has a decent life, and hope, is better for everybody, not just for the poor. And the Bolivarians are creating that opportunity--the opportunity for a far better, safer, more self-directed and more satisfying life for everybody. How can you have self-respect when the U.S. State Department and its associated global corporate predators are pulling your strings? How can you love your country, and see its resources stolen--even if the foreign predators are wily enough to "trickle" some of that money to you and a few others? It is ultimately a rotten deal.

One more thought on the Venezuelan elite. They have struck me as awfully selfish. Our own rich elite, in the '50s and '60s anyway, valued education, a strong middle class and upward mobility for the poor. They have abandoned those values now, it seems--to the everlasting ruin of our nation. But Venezuela's upper class seems never to have tried , seems never to have felt any responsibility for their poor brethren, or for their society as a whole. They utterly neglected education, for instance. The illiteracy rate at the beginning of the Chavez government stood at 40%. The Chavez government has nearly eliminated illiteracy, through an intense program of adult and other education. Poor areas had no schools. The poor could not hope to go to college. Neither did they have access to medical care. These are grave neglects. The people who oppose Chavez need to THINK about these things. They need to become more responsible--rather than imitating this Bushite "dog eat dog" ethic.

So, yes, there is at least a POTENTIAL legitimate opposition in Venezuela. But they really need to work on creating some common ground and common principles. The rule of law. Constitutional government. For starters. A more just society. And their contribution could be significant on matters like regional trade--Mercosur (the new South American trade group)--on economic development, and on balancing business and trade with the requirements of social justice. If only they would give up ambitions for illegitimate rule, and for unfair self-enrichment, which have so entranced them.
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DerBeppo Donating Member (452 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. As a test...
imagine any power you wish to be wielded by a "progressive" leader being allowed to be used by * and his cronies.

That's how I know this is a bad idea.
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hogwyld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. That's a false premise
As the first thing that would happen with the ultimate power being held by a progressive would be the elimination of the GOP.
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DerBeppo Donating Member (452 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #35
45. yeah, the removal of opposition is a very "progressive" ideal.
How about just beating them through exposing their fallacies? Or are those who support the elimination of opposing views that insecure with their own ability to argue and reason?
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hogwyld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. In a fair world, I would agree
But we all know that conservatives refuse to play fair, and resorts to all sorts of underhanded, sometimes illegal methods to get their way. I have tried to argue and reason with RWers numerous times, but they're often too stubborn in their doctrine to even consider compromise.
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Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #34
49. Which TV network here...
has advocated the violent overthrow of the government here? People here get arrested for it:

http://sacramento.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel06/sc101906.htm

Ans when did Chavez deny the right of Venezuelans to peacefully protest? That is common here:

http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/protest/11419res20030923.html

I don't have to imagine * and his cronies denying my rights, but I can't stretch the truth far enough to follow your reasoning.

Bill
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DerBeppo Donating Member (452 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. even if NBC did call for a violent overthrow
government takeover is not the correct response, nor is it the response that would happen here. Criminal and civil punishment, yes, but using it as an excuse to seize the airwaves for unchecked government propaganda? nope.
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Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Thank you for sharing your opinion.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #26
42. How would you identify these "smaller, more creative, more intelligent news organizations"
And since not all programming is news, would you also judge the content of other programming in deciding who can use the public airwaves? What criteria? Who specifically would be the judge?
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. TVes: Democratizing the Media
If the opposition is good for anything at all (something which isn't entirely clear), it's good for radicalizing the Bolivarian Revolution. This is because regardless of what may have been the government's initial vision of the new channel 2, opposition efforts to attack the non-renewal of RCTV's license as an undemocratic attack on free speech have forced the government to emphasize that the new TVes is all about the democratization of the airwaves. In recent days, the future shape of TVes has become a bit clearer. Lil Rodríguez, an Afro-Venezuelan woman, Últimas Noticias journalist, and host of Telesur's cultural program Sones y Pasiones, was sworn in as director of the TVes Foundation. As Rodríguez put it: "TVes will be born in a week with a name, with dreams, with a bit of the road behind it but an entire highway ahead. She is a woman, and she has her ovaries on straight."

While there remains some question as to what autonomy TVes will enjoy in practice, Minister of Communication Willian Lara argues that, "we wouldn't be so stupid as to make TVes a clone of VTV, Vive. . . ." In an effort to assure this, the law regulating TVes provides the directorial committee with a role which is fundamentally administrative: rather than actively producing programs, TVes is meant to be merely a conduit through which independent cultural production reaches the airwaves.

As Lil Rodríguez puts it, TVes will be "a space in which popular resistance will be what guides our destinies." Moreover, the importance of the new channel transcends a political undermining of the opposition and even the deepening of media democracy, as important as both of these are. As Rodríguez describes it, TVes "will be a useful space for rescuing those values which other models of television always ignore, especially our Afro heritage," in short, a weapon against the white Eurocentric self-image that has long prevailed in the media, devaluing Venezuelan history and culture and thereby justifying dependent development.


http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=2052
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
33. Nicaraguan FM: Venezuela has the right not to renew RCTV license
Caracas, Tuesday May 29 , 2007
Nicaraguan FM: Venezuela has the right not to renew RCTV license

The Venezuelan government "has every right not to renew the broadcast license for Radio Caracas Television (RCTV)," said Nicaraguan Minister of Foreign Affairs Samuel Santos.

"It is an agreement that has expired; it is a license that is over, and the government of Venezuela, using its rights, did not renew it," he told Nicaraguan newspaper La Prensa.

Last May 27, members of the Sandinist Front demonstrated outside the Venezuelan Embassy to support President Hugo Chávez' decision not to renew RCTV license, the official news agency ABN reported.

On Tuesday, the president of the Nicaraguan-Venezuelan Solidarity Committee Janina Guerrero said they supported the suspension of RCTV license because this channel endorsed a coup d'etat against Chávez in 2002.

http://english.eluniversal.com/2007/05/29/en_pol_art_nicaraguan-fm:-venez_29A877043.shtml
(Opposition newspaper)
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tidy_bowl Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
40. Amazing the lengths...
....many on this board will go to apologize for a thug like Chavez.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Amazing the lengths people will go to ignore RCTV's actions
Edited on Wed May-30-07 10:07 AM by killbotfactory
They tried to overthrow a democratically elected government. They worked with coup plotters, and sent their own anti-Chavez protesters into a sniper trap as a catalyst to start the coup attempt. As if that wouldn't be enough they regularly violated the terms of the broadcasting laws, advocated people take to violence, and apparently didn't pay taxes.

This is not a reasonable company to have on public broadcasting, in any country. Public airwaves should not be used as a propaganda tool for special corporate interests or to call for the violent overthrow of democracies.

If they behaved this way in any other country, not having their license to broadcast on public airwaves renewed would be the least of their worries.
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
44. Shutting down the opposition will just increase the opposition
which causes even more measures to oppress the opposition which creates even more opposition.

All this will spiral down until there is either a revolution or authoritarian dictatorship.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Only pro-constitution opposition should be tolerated.
What state allows its constitution to be subverted by elements who clamor for violent revolution? Certainly not the US, which has periodically launched legal and extra-legal campaigns against revolutionary groups such as the Black Panther Party.

The government even allowed the opposition candidate from the last presidential election to run, despite the fact that he pledged support to the "government" installed by the fascist coup of 2002. By all rights, he should have been arrested and prosecuted for treason.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-30-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
47. Venezuela, RCTV, And Media Freedom: Just The Facts, Please
Venezuela, RCTV, And Media Freedom: Just The Facts, Please
By MediaChannel.

~snip~

The general situation is this: In April of 2002, there was a two-day, illegal coup carried out against Venezuela’s electoral government, which involved the kidnapping and jailing of President Hugo Chavez. There were four major media outlets, along with others, who actively aided and abetted this coup (more later). In the intervening five years, none of them were closed, nor were any of their journalists incarcerated. Rather, the Chavez administration met with them, not to change their editorial slant, but to reach agreements preventing a repeat of such anti-democratic measure and the hyperbolic misrepresentation of facts, and also to discourage such continued infractions as the airing of pornography and cigarette commercials.

Another important fact is that the heads of the media-monopoly in Venezuela, including Marcel Granier -owner of RCTV, also participated in the economic sabotage that occurred between 2002-2003. Yet, no one went to prison for endangering the country’s social and economic stability.

What is truly amazing is that it has taken five years for the Chavez administration to take action in any way against media that helped carry out this coup. Certainly, if the same thing happened in the United States, it wouldn’t be tolerated. Just ask Aaron Burr or Timothy McVeigh what happens when folks plot against the existing, elected government. The fact is.you don’t get away with it, you get punished, and pretty severely. Getting their broadcasting licenses renewed would be the least of their problems.

When RCTV’s broadcasting license came up for review, Pres. Chavez decided, after exhaustive research and study, not to renew the license. Chavez is legally responsible for renewing such licenses under laws which were enacted before he became president. The reasons given for not renewing the license cite RCTV’s participation in the coup, plus the fact that RCTV leads Venezuelan media in infractions of communications laws. RCTV’s problems pre-date the Chavez administration, having been censured and closed repeatedly in previous presidential administrations. RCTV leads Venezuela in its violation of communications codes, with 652 infractions.
(snip/...)

http://www.mediachannel.org/wordpress/2007/05/30/venezuela-rctv-and-media-freedom-just-the-facts-please/
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #47
54. In my opinion, Chavez would have been justified in sending the army into RCTV
studios, after the coup attempt, and shutting them down right then. They actively supported a violent military coup. It's all documented by the Irish filmmakers in "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised." They filmed the RCTV hosting of the coup plotters, their false footage of Chavez supporters shooting anti-Chavez supporters (the opposite was occurring), their disinformation, and their support for the kidnapping of the president and the suspension of the Constitution and of the entire government.

But if you look at Chavez's face at the end of that documentary--after his kidnapping was over and he was returned to Miraflores Palace and sits down with his Cabinet--he clearly is shaken, but he also has another quality, an uncanny calmness. He speaks directly to those who tried to oust him--speaking to the camera, as if they were right in front of him, and he says something like this: If you oppose me, okay, let's talk. Let's discuss it. But within our Constitutional framework.

He had been in fear of his life, ready to die--kidnapped, isolated. And the moment he is free, he reaches out to the opposition, not with anger, but with an invitation for dialogue. He can't have been very sure of the military at that point. It was just a small cabal--but he probably didn't know that yet. They had killed people. There were tens of thousands of people in the streets, mostly his supporters--but there had been rightwing mobs. The situation was very volatile. His purpose seems to have been to reestablish order and to spread his own remarkable calm to others and to the country. There was much more trouble to come--the near ruinous oil professionals' strike, the absurd recall election, and continued plotting by the fascist element. How to calm the country and build greater institutional strength and political strength, so that the rule of law would prevail, and his government's economic and other reforms could be implemented?

IF he had sent the military (the loyal military) or the police to shut down RCTV, it would have said: I can only rule by brute strength. That is NOT the message he wanted to convey.

Further, it might have inflamed the situation, re-ignited the rightwing mobs and given the Bush Junta, for instance, something to say in defense of their support of the coup (they had to back down from it).

Instead, Chavez waited until the end of RCTV's 20 year license, and stuck strictly to the rule of law. They want a license renewal? No way! What government on earth would give them a new license, after what they had done? And, with perfect legality, he ended their misuse of the public airwaves.

It was Chavez's main point, on the night that the coup ended. The rule of law. You have something to say? You oppose my policies? SAY IT--within our legal framework. Don't destroy the Constitution.

He's been very consistent about this. And I think it derives from his own revolutionary youth. He participated in a coup attempt, as a young officer, against a fascist government that had killed hundreds of people, and he paid for it with jail time. To the poor, he was a hero. His popularity began when he was in jail. But had it been the right thing to do? He emerged from jail having chosen a different path: the rule of law, constitutional government, democracy. It was a turning point in his life. And so, when the same thing was done to him--when that karma returned--his reaction to it was not revenge, but rather to proceed, above all, with the rule of law in mind. He thus asserted the sovereign right of the elected government to regulate use of the public airwaves. He stirred up opposition and protest, yes, but in a very different country, in a country that had weathered three elections, in which the voters endorsed his government in ever bigger numbers (63% in the most recent election), a country that had weathered major disruptive efforts by the rightwing to destabilize it, a country that had reaffirmed democracy, time and again.

Hugo Chavez is quite blunt in his manner of speaking, and sometimes clownish. But he is one wise and shrewd politician. He gaged both the IMAGE of the rule of law and its substance. The brute force of revenge, post-coup--or the rational, constitutional, logical, fair judgment of the government not to renew RCTV's license.

Critics call him "authoritarian" and "dictatorial." He has that in him, it's true. And I think that every day he struggles with that young officer who wanted to banish injustice with brute force. That is not the way. That is bad karma. Teach lawfulness. Stick with the law. Trust talk. Trust ideas. Strengthen the peaceful path. Every day, in the mirror, I think he has this conversation with himself. Could he be a dictator? Easily. But he chooses not to be. Is he strong? Yes, very. But what are strength and power for? I think he is a thoughtful man, walking that tightrope.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. No doubt you remember BBC, Guardian journalist Greg Palast had been warning people
BEFORE this coup that it was his total conviction Hugo Chavez was going to be assassinated. He mentioned it multiple times.

I wonder if that may have contributed to the decision by the Irish filmmakers to get down there and make that documentary while there was still time! Sure glad they undertook it, because now, no matter how much noise is made by the right-wing non-readers, it all comes to nothing once anyone actually watches the evidence as it is revealed, since it's all on by god FILM.

Too many names, too many faces, too many facts stand in the way. All the right-wing can do is crowd the airwaves here, and newspapers with their crafted faux stories, hoping to snag the witless among us, so useful in clamoring for active aggression against designated "enemies."

It's puzzling seeing them all trying so hard to bury the facts of this case in their repetitive absurd lies, conjectures, and wild leaps of "logic." We all know who's going to win, at any rate, in the end, as the truth WILL eventually prevail.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


A few important points from a good article:
Another interesting fact is that our corporate media and distinguished Members of Congress have neglected to mention that on April of 2007 the government of Peru did not renew the broadcasting licenses of two TV stations and three radio stations for breaking their Radio and Television laws. It is obvious that Venezuela continues to be a target.
(snip)

On the Job at RCTV-Eyewitness, Andres Izarra Speaks

If any doubts remain as to RCTV's complicity in this coup, the voice of one of its own producers should lay them all to rest. Andres Izarra had worked as the assignment editor in charge of Latin America for CNN before being hired by RCTV as news production manager for Venezuela's highest ranked newscast, El Observador. Izarra says, quite clearly, "We were told no pro-Chavez material was to be screened". Later, RCTV officials would maintain that they could not film pro-Bolivarian demonstrations for security reasons. Even if that were true, Izarra notes, footage of these demonstrations was available from sources such as CNN. RCTV also continued broadcasting reports that President Chavez had willfully resigned and left the country, even though Izarra notes that they were receiving news to the contrary, and that Mexico, Argentina, and France had all issued statements condemning the coup and refusing to recognize the new government. Conversely, the United States welcomed this illegal government.

Izarra says the last straw came for him when, "We had a reporter in Miraflores and knew that it had been retaken by the Chavistas. the information blackout stood. That's when it was enough for me, and I decided to leave". Asked what he thought the response should be to this level of disinformation, Izarra replied, "I think their licenses should be revoked". Having had enough of corporate media's complicity in blocking news reportage, Izarra now serves as head of Telesur, the joint news channel broadcast by the nations of Venezuela, Argentina, Bolivia, and Cuba.

As Patrick McElwee, of Just Foreign Policy, points out: "It is frankly amazing that this company has been allowed to broadcast for 5 years after the coup, and that the Chavez government waited until its license expired to end its use of the public airwaves." Despite their participation in the coup, the Chavez administration entered into repeated negotiations with RCTV and its partners, Venevision, Globovision, and Television to make sure that such crass manipulation of the news would not occur again, and about other infractions. RCTV refused to reach any agreements.
(snip/...)
http://milfuegos.blogspot.com/2007/05/venezuela-rctv-and-media-freedom-just.html
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