Venezuela Lawmakers Allege Calls Link Opposition to Protests

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Bloomberg

Venezuela Lawmakers Allege Calls Link Opposition to Protests

By Theresa Bradley

May 31 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuelan lawmakers alleged private, taped phone conversations between members of the nation's political opposition show that veteran politicians are behind a current wave of student protests.

Desiree Amaral, vice president of the legislature, said taped private phone calls, allegedly between members of the opposition and two unidentified speakers, are evidence of the link. She didn't say how she obtained the recordings, which were played on state television this afternoon.

``This is evidence of the participation of the coup- mongering political sector behind the student protests,'' Amaral said, referring to six days of student demonstrations against the May 27 closure of the nation's most-watched TV network, a staunch government critic. Student leaders have repeatedly denied receiving any direction from the opposition.

``They're using kids to say they're just students protesting,'' Amaral said in the Caracas press conference. ``I call on the mothers of Venezuela: Don't let your children risk their lives for a bunch of shameless bandits.''

Telephone messages left with press officers of the opposition A New Time Party, whose leader Manuel Rosales won 37 percent of the vote against President Hugo Chavez Dec. 3, weren't returned.



Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=a5S28y95Kp6M&refer=latin_america

[BlackHawk706867]

1. That's amazing and doesn't surprise me at all.... And if you look..

a little deeper, you might find US Admisistration finger prints all over these protests as well.

ww

[LoZoccolo]

2. "Don't let your children risk their lives for a bunch of shameless bandits."

Wow, now they are threatening to kill peoples' kids. But I'm sure more than a few "progressives" will think that's OK.

[originalpckelly]

6. Good catch, they are giving a very strong implied threat.

I mean after all, who else other than the government would kill these kids?

I have a feeling we're about to wake up tomorrow or in another relatively short period of time to find a bunch of Venezuelan kids have been killed Tienanmen Square style after hearing this.

[Bacchus39]

22. yeah good one!!, why would they be risking their lives?? anyone?

I mean, they're just kids protesting.

[Andrushka]

26. Oh stop it

In case you hadn't noticed, these "student protesters" have been trying to provoke a response from the police for days now.

Not that they would have anything to worry about if it gets nasty: a wad of NED dollars bills can stop a hail of rubber bullets quite well, I hear.

[Joanne98]

3. CIA backed protests DON'T COUNT!

[originalpckelly]

8. She did not say the CIA was implicated, just opposition politicians...

and quite frankly I don't think that's all that big of a deal. Don't people high up in our party organize protests in opposition to Bush? Do they lose all legitimacy because of that?

I didn't think so.

[Bacchus39]

4. organizing a protest, imagine that!!

even if there is anything to this story, organizing a protest is no crime, well, it shouldn't be.

although I would imagine it was more likely a student generated movement which is quite common in Latin America.

[Rage for Order]

33. Yes, but organizing protests is just the beginning...

If you let opposition politicians begin organizing protests, the next thing you know they'll be organizing to back a candidate in an election campaign! :sarcasm:

[originalpckelly]

5. "She didn't say how she obtained the recordings..."

Oh probably the same way Bush obtains his tapings of Americans. Anyone else for a little warrantless wiretapping Venezuelan style?

[LoZoccolo]

9. The parallels to the Bush* administration are astounding.

I could see this back when Chavez kept telling people we were going to invade his country, a fabricated threat just like Iraq and Saddam Hussein.

[originalpckelly]

10. Yes, of course, that's also what Kim Jong Il says to his followers in DPRK.

That's why they needed the bomb, by his justification.

This is yet another consequence of Bush's fucked war.

[killbotfactory]

45. Yeah, the US never meddles lethally in Latin American affairs.

[0rganism]

62. The taped calls are the most disturbing part of the article

I really couldn't care less whether the "opposition" is organizing the protests -- hell, that much is expected, and questionably legitimate.

What's really off-putting is the gov't taping the calls, and then broadcasting them. That's not okay. If they were being gathered as evidence as a lawful part of an ongoing investigation into coup conspiracies, it should have been kept in the hands of the courts and not been made public -- that should be prosecutable in itself. On the other hand, if they were obtained otherwise, it reeks of totalitarianism.

My opinion of Chavez's regime dropped a notch.

[Flanker]

65. Who says evidence of investigations should remain secret?

nm

[hack89]

66. Do you have any doubts as to the legality of the taping?

would you have any problems with a US government doing the same?

[Flanker]

67. The legality of the taping will certainly be revealed in the short run

Just wondering how it was a catch-22 to the parent poster.

[jefferson_dem]

7. Oh big fucking deal! So now is organizing a protest a crime too?

I keep having to look up to make sure this is really the "(d)emocratic Underground" - small "d" as in respecting the right of the people to organize and speak out.

[NashVegas]

12. So. How Did You Feel About the 'Brooks Brothers' Riot?

..

[LoZoccolo]

14. I think they should all be tried for treason for overthrowing the government.

But that's for disrupting an election. If they were protesting outside, I'd say it was their right to do so.

[NashVegas]

19. Well, That's What

RCTV was doing 5 years ago. Playing an active role in attempting to overthrow a government.

Doesn't it strike you the protests are part of a squeeze play?

[LoZoccolo]

20. That's never been established.

No one has been charged.

[NashVegas]

23. It's Public Record

That's like saying Gonzales shouldn't be canned, because he's never been charged.

[LoZoccolo]

25. It's public record that Chavez rigged the election to begin with. n/t

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

28. Are you saying he rigged the 1998 election?

2000, 2004, 2006 maybe, which one? If it's the latter ones and what you're claiming is true. What would that have to do with 2002 coup? Would that be the public record you pulled out of your ass?

[LoZoccolo]

29. It's the same public record that Crisco cited. n/t

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

30. Let me just refresh your memory a little bit.

-"Thanks to the media"

-"How did it come about?"

-"General Gonzalez Gonzalez's statement which we can now say was filmed in your house."

-"Haaa, haa haa...."

-"No you just happened to be at my house because you were bringing some photos for the show. Let's make it clear I'm a journalist, I'm a journalist"

-"Yes we made filmed the video at Napoleon's house."

-When we decided that General nestor Gonzalez Gonzalez should come out. It was because Chavez was going to Costa Rica. And we needed to keep Chavez in Venezuela. The general's statement made Chavez stay in Venezuela and that's when we activated the plan."

Does that sound like just some harmless journalism to you?

BTW did you notice the admiral sitting with these two media whores while they complimented each other on their great plan (their word not mine)? He then proceeds to explain how they needed to have massive protests so that they could activate the armed forces. I know you've seen the video and are now spinning it to fit with your bullshit statements.

[LoZoccolo]

31. The general gave a press conference and the TV station covered it.

Is ABC/CBS/NBC responsible for inciting people to "jihad" since they showed a statement by bin Laden calling for such?

And that is a translation by biased filmmakers.

If it was such good evidence, why didn't Chavez send anyone to jail? And why did he give them five more years to start another coup?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

32. No, those were TV hosts talking about the video they shot at

Napoleon's (TV host) house. They filmed Nestor Gonzalez Gonzalez at this dude's house in order to force Chavez to remain in the country. Those are their words.

"And that is a translation by biased filmmakers."

I translated this myself because there were some things I thought were missed in the subtitles. Get your own translator then if you don't believe others.

"Is ABC/CBS/NBC responsible for inciting people to "jihad" since they showed a statement by bin Laden calling for such?"

This is a dumb ass analogy. If Ted Koppel and Brian Williams were sitting down with Bin Laden congratulating people on how they helped him achieve his latest plan. You bet your ass they'd be in big trouble.

"If it was such good evidence, why didn't Chavez send anyone to jail? And why did he give them five more years to start another coup?"

You'd have to ask him.

Seriously you're not making yourself look very good here. The whole Fonzi jumping the shark thing was kind of funny. But this is just dumb.

[LoZoccolo]

34. They shoot interviews in Barbara Walters' house all the time.

If an important government figure is like "hey, I've got something important to say", the media is going to cover it.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

35. Does Barbara Walters also get all giddy and says, this is why we had to

do this in order to keep such an such in the country so that we could activate the plan. Has she ever done this after a coup and the president is kidnapped? Have the plotters that overthrew the government ever gotten on with Babs and thanked the media for their help? I didn't think so. Your analogies are not helping your arguments any. Get a translator and figure it out.

[LoZoccolo]

36. It was the coup plotter guy that said that, not the journalist.

There hasn't been a coup in this country so you know the rest is moot. Journalists grant interviews to prominent government figures, that is what they do. When they hold press conferences, and when they take the government by force. And there is no evidence that the station knew anything about how the coup plotters were using this as part of a plan.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

37. The 2 of them are talking as if they are co conspirators. These assholes

were sitting there celebrating. That is a fact. I'll let the people judge when they watch the video. You're spinning yourself dizzy. Your analogies have no substance. You brought up Barbara Walters. If she behaved that way on the air with the criminals that overthrew the democratically elected government of this or any country. How would you react? Seriously why are you playing dumb?

How about the previous segment in the documentary when a "journalist" says "Members of the armed forces you know what you need to do.". That's just what journalists do huh?

[High Plains]

59. What?!?!?!? Please expand on this claim.

Or is someone just pulling shit out of his ass?

[LoZoccolo]

60. He made an unsubstantiated claim first. n/t

[Flanker]

63. The problem is that you consider nothing to be of substance

The fact that they went AWOL during the most important day of the country's new millenia, because they wanted the coup to succeed is immaterial to you. To you they had to have planned it, financed it and executed it for you to admit they participated in a coup. The were clear accessories and they were BEGGING CNN to follow suit to no avail...

The burden of proof quite high for penal actions, but quite low for an administrative decision. The only thing the government had to do was claim the disservice to the public on that fateful day and that is all that they needed to show. Of course in a non-rightwing international media world.

In Mexico they have a Televisa law, there the two monopolies have their concessions renewed forever and they pay NOTHING for them... You would feel right at home.

[killbotfactory]

38. Don't believe your lying eyes.

http://video.google.com/url?docid=5832390545689805144&esrc=sr1&ev=v&q=revolution+will+not+be+televised&vidurl=http://video.google.com/videoplay%3Fdocid%3D5832390545689805144%26q%3Drevolution%2Bwill%2Bnot%2Bbe%2Btelevised&usg=AL29H239r99jS9gy3T5feNtVlCt0KnaCDg

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

39. Forget it. It's useless. It's just some good ol' boy fun among

responsible and serious journalists.

[jefferson_dem]

21. Not good and not supportive of those scumbags. But i would defend their right to organize....

and peacefully demonstrate.

Do you advocate squelching groups who happen to protest issues or leaders you agree with?

[NashVegas]

24. There Was Nothing Peaceful About BBR

It was a Bush-campaign created astro-turf designed to shut down the recount. And it did.

[Joanne98]

11. Trust fund babies, CIA agents. How much do they NEED?

SELFISH!

[originalpckelly]

13. You know tin foil when not formed into a Faraday cage actually improves signal transmission.

:tinfoilhat:

[Joanne98]

15. And so do NEW TV STATIONS!

[LoZoccolo]

16. Did you catch Hugo on his new station?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1004962&mesg_id=1004962

[Joanne98]

17. I don't care. It's HIS TV STATION. Give him a chance...

OH the HYSTERIA that someone might broadcast something other than the official CORPORATE DOCTRINE! Take a chill pill.

[LoZoccolo]

18. You did know he already directly broadcasts state propaganda on public television there, right?

http://www.alopresidente.gob.ve

[jefferson_dem]

27. Ack! Pravda ... reopened down South.

Freaking Squealer -

[Rage for Order]

40. Yes, because official state doctrine is so much better. n/t

[1932]

57. What's so bad about letting it out into the marketplace of ideas?

[Codeine]

61. There's no "marketplace of ideas"

when you've already shut down half the conversation.

[Flanker]

64. Correction: two hundredth of the conversation

[killbotfactory]

41. Nice joke

Do you even know what is replacing RCTV, or did you just assume it?

[LoZoccolo]

44. Probably nothing as entertaining as /Happy Days/. n/t

[killbotfactory]

42. Venezuelan Civil Society Groups Accuse U.S. of Fomenting Destabilization

At a press conference yesterday in Caracas, more than six hundred different social organizations, including communal councils, political movements, collectives, community media, and cooperatives signed a document in rejecting the "imperial interference to destabilize and overthrow the Bolivarian government." The organizations support the Venezuelan government's decision not to renew the broadcast license of the private TV network RCTV and insist that the protests in the country are a part of an imperial strategy.

"The Venezuelan people forcefully reject the interference of the United States government in the internal affairs of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. Once again the CIA has put a destabilization plan in place with the objective of overthrowing the Bolivarian government and of assassinating President Hugo Chavez," said the opening paragraph of the document.

Later in the document the text makes reference to recent revelations of "documents that show the payment in dollars of journalists" from RCTV and Globovision "by the government of the United States, through the National Endowment for Democracy, connected with the US State Department and the Central Intelligence Agency through Freedom House."

The document assures that the plan seeks to create violence and deaths in the street with the intention of discrediting and weakening the government of Hugo Chavez.

In contradiction to the claims made by the media regarding freedom of expression in the country, the social organizations claim that RCTV and Globovision have systematically "called for subversion, chaos, fascism, terrorism, and assassination."

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=2315

[LoZoccolo]

43. Of course.

It's everyone's fault but his.

We all know what kind of "social organizations" these are, too. The kind of people who are on here insisting they know stuff that they don't. Like visit the September 11th forum.

[David__77]

46. The students should stop breaking the law and "crisis" will subside.

Stop assaulting police, quit setting fires, and instead exercise the right to peacefully demonstrate that is accorded by law. But the leaders of this thing don't want to demonstrate, they want to destabilize and foment a coup.

[Codeine]

47. Oh fuck, you people make me sick.

We'd never have the audacity to talk about American protesters like this. How quickly we throw our principles out the door when it's our strongman in power.

[David__77]

48. Being a leftist doesn't mean supporting assaulting police.

I don't know where you get that.

[Codeine]

49. And you know the police are being assaulted because. . .

the police and government said so, right? :eyes:

[David__77]

52. *Pictures of student "protesters" assaulting police*

http://www.sacbee.com/830/story/196401.html

Where I live, this is illegal. I think throwing stones at police is probably illegal in Venezuela too.

And aiming slingshots at them is probably illegal too. Perhaps when the right-wingers are using guns, some people would change their minds, but I doubt it.



http://www.comcast.net/data/news/photoshow/html/int_news/675645.html

[Peace Patriot]

54. Deny those guys their soap operas and they really get pissed! nt

[ToeBot]

50. If the Freepers took to the streets like this, I'd imagine a similar reaction.

I sure as hell wouldn't be supporting them. (But then again, how much damage could half a dozen loons actually do?)

[Codeine]

51. Then you've lost your way.

Protests are a basic, fundamental political right; it's how people who feel they've been wronged let their voices be heard.

[Occulus]

69. That guy with the slingshot isn't exercising a basic right.

He looks like he's trying to kill someone. It's the very same behavior we attribute to "anarchists" in our protests here.

Or had you forgotten that little fact? If protesters here were doing the same thing, I think we all know what the reaction would be from the police. Slingshots are not toys. In the right hands, a slingshot can be just as deadly at close range as any gun. For that matter, so is a thrown rock.

If this sort of protest happened in this country, we would all be roundly condemning the protesters engaging in those acts and expecting them to be arrested. I'm curious as to why you're defending protests which are quite clearly becoming violent and out of control.

[LoZoccolo]

58. If it was a leftist dictator in charge, I'd form an alliance with the FReepers, actually.

Not the first time I've said that, either:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=5496307#5498438

[Judi Lynn]

53. Venezuelan Groups Accuse U.S. of Fomenting Destabilization

Venezuelan Groups Accuse U.S. of Fomenting Destabilization
Posted: Friday, June 1, 2007

Venezuelan Civil Society Groups Accuse U.S. of Fomenting Destabilization

By Chris Carlson - Venezuelanalysis.com

May 31, 2007

Organizations, journalists, students, activists and intellectuals in Venezuela accused the national and international media of waging a campaign against Venezuela and of supporting destabilization plans that have been carried out in the country in the past few days. According to declarations made by various groups and individuals, the RCTV protests and media coverage of them have a hidden agenda directed by the United States and their Venezuelan allies to destabilize the country.

At a press conference yesterday in Caracas, more than six hundred different social organizations, including communal councils, political movements, collectives, community media, and cooperatives signed a document in rejecting the "imperial interference to destabilize and overthrow the Bolivarian government." The organizations support the Venezuelan government's decision not to renew the broadcast license of the private TV network RCTV and insist that the protests in the country are a part of an imperial strategy.

"The Venezuelan people forcefully reject the interference of the United States government in the internal affairs of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. Once again the CIA has put a destabilization plan in place with the objective of overthrowing the Bolivarian government and of assassinating President Hugo Chavez," said the opening paragraph of the document.

Later in the document the text makes reference to recent revelations of "documents that show the payment in dollars of journalists" from RCTV and Globovision "by the government of the United States, through the National Endowment for Democracy, connected with the US State Department and the Central Intelligence Agency through Freedom House."
(snip)

Some Argentinean intellectuals also came out against what they called a "disturbing" campaign in the international press earlier this week. Nobel Prize winner Adolfo Perez Esquivel, filmmaker Fernando Pino Solanas, and sociologists Atilio Boron and Alcira Argumedo all condemned the campaign for trying to "convince the world" of the supposed "closure" of RCTV. According to the intellectuals, the media campaign is a "dangerous escalation of disinformation that could serve as a platform for other plans by Washington."
(snip/)

http://trinicenter.com/cgi-bin/selfnews/viewnews.cgi?newsid1180684684,176,.shtml

Pardon to killbotfactory, just noticed he has already posted this. I've been gone a lot today/night, and hadn't read the entire thread yet.

[Peace Patriot]

55. I'm glad to see the Chavez government taking the initiative--by denying the RCTV license,

rather than just reacting to, a) a military coup attempt, fomented by RCTV, b) a crippling oil professionals' strike aimed at topping the government (fomented by RCTV), c) a USAID bought and paid for (and absurd) recall election (which Chavez won handily), also supported by RCTV. It's all they could do, in the first couple of years, to keep the fuckers at RCTV and their paramilitary thugs from overthrowing the elected government, suspending the Constitution, shutting down the elected National Assembly (Congress) and the court system, and kidnapping and killing the elected president. But they've finally gathered the political strength to DO something about all this--to throw down the gauntlet, and let the fascists eat it, for once.

We should deny some licenses to our own war profiteering corporate predator news monopolies. Teach 'em who rules in a sovereign country. You lie to us, you pay. Out with you! And give the licenses to real journalists--and to REAL businesses, in a REAL marketplace of ideas, in a REAL democracy.

Goddammit.

[Peace Patriot]

56. Re: the disinformation upthread about Venezuelan elections...

1. Venezuelan elections are the most highly monitored on earth, and have been unanimously certified by the Carter Center, the OAS and EU election monitoring groups, who were permitted to crawl all over Venezuela before, during and after its elections, to verify that they were fairly conducted.

2. Venezuela votes electronically, but it is an OPEN SOURCE CODE system--anyone may review the programming code by which votes are counted--and they hand-count a whopping 55% of the ballots as a check on machine fraud. (Know how much WE handcount--in our rightwing Bushite-corporate controlled system, run on "TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code? If you don't, you'd better find out, cuz that's the whole ballgame.)

3. The people of Venezuela have overwhelmingly endorsed Chavez as president, time and again, and have furthermore elected big Chavista majorities to the National Assembly (Congress).

4. The rich, fascist elite cannot win honest elections in Venezuela. That's why they're always seeking illegitimate power--through military coups, oil professionals' strikes, industrial sabotage, corporate control of the news media, unleashing thuggish rightwing rioters, and alliances with the Bush State Department, big oil and bad actors like the U.S. Undersecretary of State for Latin America, John "death squad" Negroponte. USAID/NED has been funding these fascists for 6 years, trying to topple the legitimate government. Why? Because it's "authoritarian"? Give me a break.

5. Venezuela has one of the most vibrant democracies in the Western Hemisphere. They put ours to shame--on election integrity and in every other way.


--------------------------

Recommended:

For news and opinion on Venezuela and the Bolivarian revolution: www.venezuelanalysis.com
and
"The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" (available at AxisofLogic.com)--which documents what RCTV did during the violent military coup attempt in 2002, by Irish filmmakers who happened to be present in Miraflores Palace when the coup occurred--and got the scoop of a lifetime.

[IndianaGreen]

68. Venezuela and the Media: Fact and Fiction

The same people that defended going to war against Iraq, opposed defunding the war, and recoil at the idea of getting Bush and Cheney impeached, are now parroting Faux News propaganda about Chavez and Venezuela. Why is that? Perhaps it is because the neoliberals at DLC/PPI share the same world view as the neocons at PNAC and AEI. Oh, they might disagree on tactics somewhat. The former may prefer to sugar coat their imperialist policies with a "progressive" label, while the latter prefer to screw people without lubrication, but to those at the receiving end of the oppressive policies they advocate, there is no difference between them.

Published on Friday, June 1, 2007 by CommonDreams.org

Venezuela and the Media: Fact and Fiction

by Robert W. McChesney & Mark Weisbrot

To read and view the U.S. news media over the past week, there is an episode of grand tyranny unfolding, one repugnant to all who cherish democratic freedoms. The Venezuelan government under “strongman” Hugo Chavez refused to renew the 20-year broadcast license for RCTV, because that medium had the temerity to be critical of his regime. It is a familiar story.

And in this case it is wrong.

Regrettably, the US media coverage of Venezuela’s RCTV controversy says more about the deficiencies of our own news media that it does about Venezuela. It demonstrates again, as with the invasion of Iraq, how our news media are far too willing to carry water for Washington than to ascertain and report the truth of the matter.

<snip>

If RCTV were broadcasting in the United States, its license would have been revoked years ago. In fact its owners would likely have been tried for criminal offenses, including treason.

RCTV’s broadcast frequency has been turned over to a new national public access channel that promises to provide programming from thousands of independent producers. It is an effort to let millions of Venezuelans who have never had a viable chance to participate in the media do so, without government censorship.

The Bush Administration opposes the Chavez government for reasons that have nothing to do with democracy, or else there would be a long list of governments for us to subvert or overthrow before it would get close to targeting Venezuela. Regrettably, our press coverage has done little to shed light on that subject.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/06/01/1607/