Ill. students lose diplomas over cheers

[mconvente]

Source: Associated Press

GALESBURG, Ill. - Caisha Gayles graduated with honors last month, but she is still waiting for her diploma. The reason: the whoops of joy from the audience as she crossed the stage.

Gayles was one of five students denied diplomas from the lone public high school in Galesburg after enthusiastic friends or family members cheered for them during commencement.

About a month before the May 27 ceremony, Galesburg High students and their parents had to sign a contract promising to act in dignified way. Violators were warned they could be denied their diplomas and barred from the after-graduation party.

Many schools across the country ask spectators to hold applause and cheers until the end of graduation. But few of them enforce the policy with what some in Galesburg say are strong-arm tactics.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070601/ap_on_re_us/graduation_decorum

---

Read the rest of the article. Is this not the most blatant bullshit ever? Please - give me a fucking break. I mean, it's true what the girl says at the end of the article - if someone doesn't like me, they can hoot and holler in her name to prevent her from getting her diploma. This is just pure lunicy and if my son/daughter (when/if I become a parent someday!) were denied their diploma over loud noise I'd need to set a bail fund here at DU because I would definitely be in jail that night.

[NoPasaran]

1. A similar thing happened in Texas

Where students were denied diplomas because of a beachball of mass distruction. What a bunch of bullshit.
http://www.mcblogger.com/archives/2007/05/great_moments_i_1.html

[Longhorn]

13. That's not exactly the whole story in that blog.

The students brought beach balls and water pistols and were chanting so loudly that you couldn't hear the graduating students' names being called. I taught at Dripping Springs High School and I know the principal. Three of my four children graduated from there. He is a reasonable person who is trying to bring order to ceremonies that have gotten out of control. I would have been very upset if the actions of a few idiots, who had been warned ahead of time, ruined my child's graduation. I heard a recording of the students chanting at the American-Statesman site. They were completely out of line.

[aquart]

2. When schoolboard elections come up...

Maybe they all better not stay home.

[KamaAina]

3. Discussion also underway in GD

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1023103&mesg_id=1023103

I shied away from LBN because the actual event took place a few days ago.

[mconvente]

5. yeah, i was wondering that

I just saw the link on yahoo and did a search for it in LBN - it's not really "breaking" but it just came up on the front page at yahoo. If mods want to close or merge this into that then that's fine.

But yeah, what a bunch of crap.

[MnFats]

4. Proper response: "Take your diploma and shove it!"

they put spies in the audience to monitor shouting? What a crock.
my job means I have attended dozens, if not hundreds of commencement exercises. shouting when one families' grad is named NEVER distrupted things for more than a few seconds. Professional people paused a few seconds, then continued. everybody heard every name.
this is one of the most stupid things I've ever heard.

makes me think of Pink Floyd: "If y' parents shout, Y' can't have any diploma! How can you have a diploma when y' parents shout?"

[THUNDER HANDS]

6. while i don't agree with denying a diploma

the hooting and hollering at some graduations is just insane. Some kids have like, 20 relatives who drown out the kid going next because they're still screaming for their graduate.

They act like animals. What's wrong with just clapping politely. You want everyone in the room to know that graduate comes from a family of obnoxious assholes?

[mconvente]

7. well, I graduated with 73 other students, sooo...

I may be a bit jaded in terms of a graduation. For us, it was no big deal if you had to wait a few extra seconds for the noise to stop. I can see getting through things when you have 500+ students at some regional high schools, but come on, denying a diploma over hootin and hollering? I know the diploma is "only" a piece of paper, but a wedding ring is "just" a ring, yet it means so much. You can't take that away because of some loud clapping and "woooooo"-ing - that's just bunk.

[triguy46]

23. Maybe I'm cold hearted...

but a HS diploma is not that frickin big deal. It is just a piece of paper. The transcript is what counts. Use it to get to college, then graudate, THEN have the party. The extreme overemphasis of HS graduation is consistent with the overemphasis of the senior prom which now costs students thousands in limo rent, designer gowns, catered parties. Its just frickin HS. Get over it.

[Lars39]

30. This and the prom are all the chance to celebrate that some kids will ever get.

Not every kid is able to go to college.

[melnjones]

36. Do you realize how many people never graduate high school?

I live in a poor neighborhood where probably less than half of the adults have even a GED. Some very large families have NEVER seen a family member graduate high school. For crying out loud, this girl could have been the first in her family to graduate for all you know. High school IS a big deal. Ignorant.

[bleedingheart]

44. I graduated with 543....it makes a big difference...and it is rude

some people have no manners...

[hoboken123]

54. Sure showed them

Was it enough though? Maybe deny them college admission too?

[bluethruandthru]

10. This is a pet peeve of mine.

Not just for graduations but also talent shows, awards presentations, etc. On Monday my youngest will graduate from High School and I'm sure, even though the crowd is told to hold applause, there will be one family after another trying to shout more loudly than the one before. I've missed many special moments of my children getting awards or performing because of these assholes. However, denying diplomas to the kids is wrong.

[ozone_man]

8. It's up to the principal (or vice principal) to maintain order.

The first outburst from the crowd, you have to come down on them. Repeat as often as necessary. I've seen it work many times. No heavy handed tactics are required such as denying diplomas, just some old fashioned crowd discipline.

[DumpDavisHogg]

9. Why are people here defending the school?

According to the article, the rule was selectively enforced based on the students' race, for one thing. For another, they were getting punished over something people in the audience did, not over something they did themselves.

[Mad_Dem_X]

51. I agree - why punish the graduates

for something the audience did? :shrug:

[liberal N proud]

11. Family can't express joy that their child accomplished something?

What bullshit.

[fortyfeetunder]

12. Can they pull out the race card???

"In Galesburg, the issue has taken on added controversy with accusations that the students were targeted because of their race: four are black and one is Hispanic. Parents say cheers also erupted for white students, and none of them was denied a diploma."

I hope someone had a video camera with the audio during the ceremony so they can show the law was unequally applied....

[Bread and Circus]

14. Is graduation for the students? or not?

Honestly, they earned it. They are just kids. Let them have fun for god's sake. As long as it is positive, let them go for it.

Sounds like that school administration is a bunch of pricks.

[Miss Chybil]

15. It's a graduation, not a wake. Students work hard for their diplomas.

They should not have their moment of glory soured by a bunch of control freaks.

[Beartracks]

17. This seems spiteful...

The diploma is the "reward" for the student's academic achievement. If the academic accomplishment is worthy, then a little out-of-place, even defiant, cheering at the graduation ceremony -- which is really only a formality -- should not prevent the diploma from being conferred.

Hmm... On a related note, I don't believe a diploma is actually REQUIRED for acceptance to college. Is it?

[Nevernose]

16. Please define "dignified"

Galesburg High students and their parents had to sign a contract promising to act in dignified way.

Can the School District prove that the majority of noisemaking was from people who had, indeed, signed that contract? Can the District please define "dignified?" Did they do so in the contract? I'd love to read it. Is there a video (I'm sure there is), and, if so, are there indeed Anglo students who received noise from the audience and were NOT reprimanded?

[Sabriel]

34. "Dignified" = "white"

Kind of like white churches compared with black services and call-and-response.

It's a ceremony, yes, but it's also a celebration. What next? No undignified singing of "Happy Birthday"?

[noamnety]

46. That's exactly what I was going to post

That sitting quietly, hands folded in lap or polite clapping, is a cultural value.
Cheering loudly and being responsive is a cultural value.

My eyebrows went up a bit when I saw someone upthread describe cheering enthusiastically for a graduating child as acting like "animals."

Somehow our black baptist churches manage to get through their services just fine - despite being populated by "animals."

[insomnomaniacal]

59. Cultural values?

Well, I suppose so, but this was NOT an African-American church service, was it? And neither is a subway train, a restaurant, a movie theater, or any public place where there is not an implicit contract permitting extravagant displays. I'm tired of people, black or white, who slouch about acting in public places as if they were the only people present or as if they were at home in their bedrooms or watching a video in their living rooms.

[insomnomaniacal]

58. No, "Obnoxious" = "Obnoxious"

When you act in an over-the-top way, in a way that is inappropriate for the context -- especially if you've agreed ahead of time not to behave in that way, you have no excuse, whether you're black or white.

[LibDemAlways]

18. At my daughter's middle school kids with under a 2.0 GPA

aren't allowed to participate in the 8th grade "culmination" ceremony. What a crock. These kids aren't being held back. They are being sent on to high school next year, so what's the big deal about letting them cross the stage and collect their piece of paper with the rest of the class.

They push, push, push kids with introductory chemistry/physics and high school algebra (both required) in 8th grade; US History, with heavy emphasis on art projects - make illustrated civil war trading cards including freehand drawings of the events and people depicted on each card - complete a research paper on a period in history such as "Manifest Destiny" examining people, places, and events. Include an annotated bibliography and an accompanying poster with illustrations that can be seen from the back of the classroom and text no less than an inch and a half high....blah, blah, blah...nonstop crap like that. Kids whose parents don't have time to help with all the projects suffer tremendously at report card time, and then are further penalized by not getting to "culminate."

My kid will cross the stage, and you can bet I'm going to be applauding mightily. Without my support, encouragement, nagging, help, and proofreading skills she could be sitting home that day, too.

[rayofreason]

26. A Question for you.

Do you think it is a good idea or a bad idea that all 8th graders are required to take algebra 1 and intro chemistry/physics?

Thanks in advance for your response.

[LibDemAlways]

28. I think it's a terrible idea. Not every kid is

ready to tackle algebra I in 8th grade or a science class that includes physics and chemistry. I'm up to my eyeballs in nucleotides; and trying to get the info, much of which has gone straight over my daughter's head, into her noggin so she'll be prepared for the many tests is an enormous challenge. I took chemistry in high school, and it wasn't as in depth as some of this is.

Whatever happened to presenting material that is grade level appropriate and at a pace other than breakneck speed so the kids can actually understand and retain some of it?

One education fits all inevitably leaves kids behind. 34 kids, out of 300, are not being allowed to participate in the culmination ceremony because they couldn't keep up, and I think it's a damn shame.

I attended a parent orientation over at the high school and came away with the impression that if your kid isn't a star athlete or headed to Harvard, he or she might just as well forget it. It's all about AP and honors classes, and, if you don't make the grade, you are a hopeless loser. A graduating senior was chosen to address the parents. She has a GPA above 4.0 and is deciding between Stanford and Cal Tech - both on full scholarships. She was also student body President and editor of the school newspaper. I applaud the young woman's achievements, but for God's sake, couldn't they have picked someone with less impressive credentials to assure parents that the high school experience can be rewarding for everybody, not a select few? I'm just totally put off by it, and my daughter hasn't even set foot in the place yet.

[rayofreason]

35. Unfortunately...

...I could not disagree more.

Demanding high standards from all students is crucial to their further success in an increasingly competitive world. The single greatest predictor of future academic success is a rigorous high school curriculum. If you would like to see data on this please go to

http://www.hunt-institute.org/HIELPEvents/Events/ShowEvent.aspx?RecordID=14

and click on Kati Haycock's presentation. More information can be found at

http://www2.edtrust.org/edtrust

A high school education is not enough for anyone anymore. It is a recipe for poverty and all the ills that poverty brings, both on the individual level and the societal level. Some post-secondary education is a must, and for many community colleges are a good route. But to prepare kids for post-secondary education, and to give everyone the maximum ranges of options and possibilities, all kids should take as a many AP and other advanced classes as possible - Harvard bound or not.

I hope that you will share this information with others in your school.

[LibDemAlways]

39. While I believe that the high school curriculum

should be rigorous and prepare students for the challenges of college, I respectfully disagree about the AP and honors classes. My nephew attends NYU and got in without a single AP course. When he was a junior in high school, he began taking summer courses at the local community college for credit. He entered NYU with several general ed courses already completed and is doing very well there.

By the way, while I generally agree with your assessment that a high school education isn't enough anymore, I don't think college is necessarily the key to riches for everybody, either. My brother-in-law, who is a plumber by trade, earns more than his brother, who is an engineer.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

19. I was at a graduation of 400 just today,

yeah, they told everyone to shut up, but nobody did its a fucking celebration, not a march to the gallows!
Some people were loud, but I don't think anyone was being rude - other than some politician on stage who appeared to be pecking away at his blackberry for most of the ceremony.

[Zodiak]

20. Disgusting story

Control freaks who think that conformity is more important than 12 years of academic achievement. They shouldn;t even be working in a school with that attitude.

I hope they sue the shit out of the school system and the administrators get fired. The racist element is cute....after all, those darkies don't need no stinking diploma for McJobs. :sarcasm:

[LiberalFighter]

21. Maybe schools need to come up with a better solution.

Like maybe after 25 or 50 students receive their diploma they make time for spectators to applaud.

I wonder what the principal did prior to the start of the ceremony to remind the audience the necessity of holding their applause? Have they timed the event with and without the audience applauding? If they already know how long it takes when they generally don't applaud they could tell the audience at the next graduation that they are allowed to applaud as each student receives their diploma. Then next time advise the audience that it is their choice. Then tell them approximately how long it will take for the event to be over if they hold their applause or if they applaud each time. Even put it on the notice sent out giving the expected time so they can plan for any after event parties that the parents have planned.

My estimation for a school with 400 students graduating... Anywhere from 45 to 65 minutes.

They could put a clock on the stage showing the amount of extra time that the ceremony is taking because of the applauses. Tick tock tick tock. That should be easy to do if the ceremony is held in the gym or at a football stadium.

[donco6]

53. Oh honey, no way.

Our graduating class is only 180 kids and it takes 1.5 hours - with all the speeches, performances, introductions, traditional stuff. I've never been out of there in under 1.5 hours - not in 12 years.

[triguy46]

22. I have never, never needed my 'diploma'

All you need is the transcript, the HS diploma is at best sentimental.

That said, I work at large university and graduate school hooding has devolved into a carnival, with kids running throughout the auditorium, air horns, chants, cheers. As a result, most students get their diplomas and leave the building. If a graduation is to be a moment of introspection, thoughtfulness, that is gone. Undignified? Sure, but that is what the public seems to prefer.

[melnjones]

37. That kid may be the first in her family to get a diploma.

Sentimental, maybe, but still powerful and well-earned. We have to remember how many families have few or no people with even a GED.

[DinahMoeHum]

24. Another case of "standing on a brick to kick a duck's ass"

Sheesh!

:argh:

[Nikia]

25. I don't understand why students are punished for the actions of others

The graduating students have no control over what people do when they are up on stage. Why should they be penalized for spectators' actions?
It would be different if the students themselves had yelled something rude or did something else inappropriate themselves.

[pitohui]

32. punishing students for someone else's actions...can this be america?

to me it sounds like the kind of thing we expect from communist china

if a parent misbehaved, let the parent do the 8 hours of community service

no one is claiming the student participated in the yells and catcalls, yet the student is paying the price

completely unacceptable in a decent society to punish a child for the act of a parent, we do not choose our parents

[bleedingheart]

45. if her family understood prior to this that it would be witheld

then it speaks volumes about the family....generally they make announcements like..."please withold all applause and congratulatory celebrations until after all students names have been stated"...

[LostinVA]

49. Exactly -- my first thought on reading this article n/t

[ohio2007]

27. ACLU backs the school ? ! wtf

from the article;

...... American Civil Liberties Union spokesman Edward Yohnka said Galesburg's policy raises no red flags as long as it is enforced equitably. "It's probably well within the school's ability to control the decorum at an event like this," he said.


So, what kind of animal house problems are reported during the school year should we be told about by the ACLU ?
I take it there wasn't a prayer being said by a student to open these commencement proceedings. I know the ACLU is all over those things while they are against 'unnecessary celebrations' during this one,

dunno, wish we were told more details of the past years

......the get-tough policy followed a 2005 commencement where hoots, hollers and even air horns drowned out much of the ceremony and nearly touched off fights in the audience when the unruly were asked to quiet down.
.....

imo, revenge and paybacks were not going to be part of the curriculum

[jaxx]

31. It wasn't enforced equtably.

There were 14 outbursts of hurrah's, these 5 were the longest........all of 5 seconds each. Told by the hired professional who videotaped the graduation for the school.

Past years had gotten rowdy......bullhorns, bells. All kids had to take letters to parents to sign saying, more or less, that they would sit there and shut the fuck up while their kid walked across the stage. There were no noise makers of any kind this year, only some happy voices.

This school is the only high school in town.

[Kali]

29. Wow I thought our school was bad

Granted the people in the audience with the noisemakers WERE obnoxious, but the typical facist principal was bitching at them three or four times DURING the ceremony. I think he should have had some "enforcers" in the room to deal with that sort of thing - if it was really needed. It's not like the kids don't know their social status after 4 or 13 years together! A bit late to be playing the "lets all treat everybody the same" game.

[rocktivity]

33. And why is SHE being penalized for THEIR cheering?

Did she walk on stage carrying an APPLAUSE sign?

:crazy:
rocknation

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

38. This nation has become so INCREDIBLY fucked up.

:shrug:

I guess I could do one of those "When I wuz young" bullshit speeches, but do I really HAVE TO???

Sheesh.

[DuaneBidoux]

40. Total Bullshit.. She earned that degree. You should have heard mine!

[Posteritatis]

41. What's the actual effect of this?

Is she being denied the paper, or is she being denied the graduation - i.e., will this be penalizing her afterwards?

Either is incredibly stupid - punishing people for others' actions is never acceptable, and I can think of a zillion ways to abuse that particular rule ("oh look! That guy's an asshole! I'm going to cheer when his name is called!") - but if it's the latter some heads had better roll in more than one direction each.

[hexola]

42. This is happening all over the country - big issue in my town...

WTF?

[bleedingheart]

43. Have you ever attended a graduation where the whoops and cheers

prevented two or three other kids names from being heard?

I attended a graduation like that and in the end it was almost useless to go....I wouldn't withold a diploma over it but I think it is a reflection on the poor manners of the audience.

I just attended another graduation this weekend and the announcers told the audience multiple times that they had to remain silent as the names were read...and the audience did...and the ceremony went much faster...which I was thankful for...

[slackmaster]

47. What a wonderful life lesson for these graduates

You can get punished for the actions of others, over which you have no control.

[Occulus]

48. It's true, though n/t

[lonestarnot]

50. What idiots! Who is running the policy? Lemme guess ... fundies.

[donco6]

52. Ha! In my district it's airhorns for everyone!

Well, pretty much. We can't even try to dissuade parents from celebrating. Actually, the kids are fine - it's the parents who go nutso, now that I think about it.

[whoneedstickets]

55. The Simple Solution to this Problem....

Is to announce names by GPA not alphabetically. After all the bright kids with dignified and attentive parents get to hear their child's name called, then the whoopin' and hollerin' crowd can take over the latter half of the ceremony and turn it into a circus.

[mconvente]

56. Hate to agree here, but that seems to be the case

The more trouble-maker kids' parents seem to be the hooting and hollering type - not exclusively, but a lot. It's embarrassing - I've been to graduations where I see parents of trouble-maker kids laughing when their son's name was called and saying things like "I can't believe he actually graduated!" plus the airhorn and all that hollering. And then cursing in front of little children - no wonder their kids are morons...

[insomnomaniacal]

60. LOL - that's great!

Perfect solution -- but, unfortunately, it would be seen as "unfair."

Maybe the ones at the back of the line would call it "brainism."

[insomnomaniacal]

57. I'm tired of people who behave like that

In my view, this has to do with respect for and civility toward others. Some people seem to regard this kind of behavior as socially acceptable in any context whatsoever, without regard for anyone else, and it is not confined to high school graduation ceremonies.

Whether it's in a movie theater, on a commuter train, in a grocery store, or wherever it occurs, what it seems to entail is comprehensive ignorance of the differences between how you behave at home and how you behave in public, and there is increasing mob of people who don't have a fucking clue. They scream into their cell phones on the commuter train, they slouch in their seats and put their feet up on the seats across from them; in the movie theaters, they talk loudly with each other the throughout the film, and if you say anything, they become profane and hostile; they sit next to you on the train and blast their iPods so loudly that even though they have earphones on, the noise is a disturbance to everyone, many of whom are reading or talking quietly; they pile into a theater or onto the train or into a restaurant like a football team bursting through the paper wall at the beginning of a game. It goes on and on, and I could write paragraphs describing what is essentially ignorant, anti-social, I-don't-give-a-shit-about-others behavior.

I have little doubt that this case was precisely the same sort of behavior -- noisy, me-me-me-me behavior, obnoxious behavior, and so over the top that it does, in fact, disrupt the event and annoy everyone else there.

So, if people who can enforce the rules do enforce them, I'm for it, because our society is turning into a mob of boors, assholes, and adult brats, with no idea whatsoever of how to behave in public.

The young woman and her parents had signed a contract, and they knew that the young lady would be denied her diploma, under the terms of that contract, if they behaved in a disruptive way. So, neither the graduate nor the family have any excuse whatsoever.

In fact, I'm glad to know of someone enforcing the rules on those who refuse to believe that any rules ever apply to themselves. The ACLU said they have no defense. I agree, and I further say that they have no excuse.