Democracy stuns Polish coma man

[Posteritatis]

Source: CNN

WARSAW, Poland (Reuters) -- A 65-year-old railwayman who fell into a coma following an accident in communist Poland regained consciousness 19 years later to find democracy and a market economy, Polish media reported on Saturday.

Wheelchair-bound Jan Grzebski, whom doctors had given only two or three years to live following his 1988 accident, credited his caring wife Gertruda with his revival.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/02/polish.coma.reut/index.html

---

He remembered Poland.

That's gotta be one hell of a ride.

[devilgrrl]

1. He'll find that nothing has changed much except that there are more fast food restaurants.

eom

[Parmenion]

11. You are incorrect

Actually a lot has changed and your post is highly insulting to the Polish people. I am one of the harshest critics against the Kaczynski presidency/premiership but to somehow imply that the current Polish government (not to mention society and culture) is the same as under communist times is ludicrous.

For one, free elections are now allowed. If you are American you might take free elections for granted, but lots of people, including Mr. Grzebski did not even have the basic human right of voting for his entire life.

Second, a repressive government that did not ensure civil rights has been replaced with a flawed parliamentary (mostly) system that tries to ensure civil rights. Of course there are flaws in that gay rights, abortion, and so on are not ensured. Fortunately, a democracy allows citizens, such as myself and others, to vote and work toward these goals. The communist system simply imprisoned people that went against the state. Free speech, free press, and so on were not allowed. Educational choices and career choices were also restricted. The Party elite and those with connections were ensured of all the best jobs and places in good educational institutes, while everybody else had to fight over these spots and stand in hour long food lines with ration cards only to get to the counter and see that no meat was available. Of course the communist party members were having lavish parties with the best western imports.

In 1981 the Polish government declared martial law and threw thousands of people in jail and took thousands of more jobs away from people simply because they organized into a labor union. This followed the precedent of previous instances of the Polish government firing and killing workers.

In 1988, when Mr. Grzebski fell into a coma, Polish citizens did not see any end in sight to their repressive, un-representative, government. The Wall still firmly stood and analysts in the U.S. thought communism would last a lot longer. The Autumn of the Peoples is one of the great miracles of history that saw communism peacefully collapse in Central Europe. Of course there have been problems since then, but these problems are being worked through a flawed, but basically representative, political process.

In addition, Polish culture and society changed greatly in the last 18 years. Also, the actual appearance of the country is much different. Any Polish city or village in 1988 will look shockingly different. People who lived through the last two decades all feel the shock and displacements of the changes, so I can't even imagine what this man is going through.

Also, just because Poland supports the U.S. military mission in Iraq does not mean Poland is under U.S. "occupation" or "hegemony", and that somehow the U.S. has replaced the Soviet Union as an occupier of Poland and the current Polish government parallels the communist government. It is an interesting parallel, but way too simplified, and glosses over vast differences between Poland in 1988 and 2007.

The U.S. government does not station over 100,000 troops in Poland, and the U.S. never hand-picked a Polish leader. Also the U.S. never committed ethnic cleansing in Poland, or put 1 million Poles in the Gulag, or killed thousands of Polish military officers. So the U.S. hegemony over Poland (and Europe in general) does not parallel with the brutal Soviet involvement in Poland.

[devilgrrl]

13. I'm unimpressed.

Poland is now a rightwing version of it's former self, regardless of US or Russian influence. :boring:

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[devilgrrl]

18. If Poland was progressive and receptive to choice/gay rights. Then no, I wouldn't spew like I did.

It's that simple.

[Parmenion]

23. Since you care about choice/gay rights

Why don't you help the progressive cause in Poland. Millions of progressive Poles are voting and working through the Democratic process of Poland to overturn the draconian laws and regulations in Poland. For a start, you should recognize that Poland is a fledgling, flawed democracy, that needs all the support it can get. Instead of insulting the country you should support some LGBT movements in Poland.

[devilgrrl]

33. Then why don't you post links?

Kind of hard to find these things out when NOBODY is reporting them.

[ohio2007]

34. From reading Parminion's posts, I think maybe they are first hand accounts .

Those comments were insightful of someone who may have been around since LBJ was in office.
jmho

[devilgrrl]

37. That seems possible...

btw, I wasn't disputing the points made.

I admitted that I was wrong here - you stop piling on.

[cigsandcoffee]

35. If you hate Poland for that, you'll really have something to say about Iran.

Iran makes Poland look like Gay Day at Disneyland.

[devilgrrl]

36. You have a point...

eom

[Honeycombe8]

39. Oh, pleeez. How could you not recognize that a young democracy...

is not going to have the same broad rights for all of its citizens the way older democracies do?

Just how much more insulting can you be to another country to state that they were somehow better off being imprisoned by the thousands than now, because they still don't grant a particular right to a faction of their population? How arrogant to state that the right to vote means nothing. That civil rights for the general population, though limited, mean nothing.

Methinks you haven't been exposed to the harsh realities of the cold, cruel world out there. Some people in America have been raised in a spoiled environment, so that they take public education, the right to open your own business and reap the rewards, vote, and other ordinary things for granted. There's an overabundance of food in the stores...choices that boggle the mind, while the shelves in grocery stores in most communistic countries sport maybe one cheese, three loaves of one kind of bread, and other paltry inventories. In America or Great Britain, if you want music, you got it. By the truckload, and the MP3 load, the CD load. You want a computer? You got it. You want new furniture? You got it, at any price range. New TV? Go pick it up down the street. A new car? We got 'em at any price, new or used, in any color. Just make your decision.

And we ever increasingly are becoming fatter....and fatter. Adults and children alike.

Yes, we have become spoiled. And your post shows just how spoiled.

[Canuckistanian]

15. You seem to think there's no difference between repressive communism..

.. and democracy (albeit flawed).

Are you Polish yourself? Did you actually live in Poland from 1945-1989?

You seem to be awfully adamant that Poland has undergone no significant change.

[devilgrrl]

17. No. I'm not Polish nor have I ever been there...

so you are correct that I am grossly ignorant of the situation. However, when I hear all this bullshit about Teletubbies promoting homosexuality and the governments harsh stance against abortion - what am I supposed to think? Can you blame me for feeling the way that I do?

[Parmenion]

21. Yes I Can Blame You

You wrote a sarcastic, fact less, and insulting comment that Poland has not changed at all in 18 years. You base this not on knowledge, but on a "feeling" you got from reading accurate stories about the cultural and political backwardness of Poland.

Instead of intelligently addressing the problems Polish progressives are struggling against, you insult the entire nation and its developing government by ignorantly claiming it is a dictatorship.

If you have little knowledge about a country, then you shouldn't post insulting messages maligning the entire foreign country. If you feel homosexual rights and abortion in Poland are an important issue (as I and millions of other VOTING Poles do) then you should try to ask questions about the issue, or study it, or see what you can do to help, and not just imply that Poland is a dictatorship with no hope of fixing the issue.

[devilgrrl]

31. Your sanctimonious tone isn't serving you well...

just so you know.

[Th1onein]

46. I'm not impressed, either.

You know, it's just common sense to realize that when you wake up after so many years in a coma, you're not going to be shocked and awed at the form of government you have. Maybe you'd be shocked and awed at how much older your children and your wife look, your friends, and many facets of your life that have changed, but the first thing you look at is NOT the form of government. Can you imagine ANYONE waking up from a long coma and saying, "Wow! You mean I have the right to vote?"

Yeah, right.

[OnyxCollie]

25. Poland is a dictatorship pretending to be a democracy?

How is that different than what we have here?

[Kelvin Mace]

26. Come on now

You can't judge the whole country on the actions of its nut jobs. That would be like a Pole judging you or I on the actions of Bush.

:)

Poland has its problems, but it has come a LONG way since communism.

[Demit]

30. Grossly ignorant describes it perfectly, I would say.

Most people base their opinions on at least a little knowledge. Your posts in this thread have to be some of the most embarrassingly stupid things I've ever read here. Good grief.

[devilgrrl]

32. I'm sorry you feel that way...

however, you can't say that I didn't learn something new, can you?

Since when is it bad to be proven wrong?

Have a nice day. :hi:

[CreekDog]

44. devilgrrl can be blamed, yes

That is like saying that Martin Luther King had no effect because in 1968 at his death, though there was progress, there were not full rights for abortion and gay rights --thus nothing had changed. Utterly ridiculous.

And Devilgrrl, if you were wrong, it's right to admit it as you did, but if you are insulting and wrong, the only right thing to do is admit it AND apologize.

But anyway, first, the fact that nobody told you that Poland has changed, or provided you a link to the information when it is widely available means that you admittedly made the comment out of ignorance and without basis, even tauntingly.

Second, you comments are highly insulting to the Polish people (I am not Polish, however). They are insulting because it is largely the efforts of brave Poles that the system has gone from a Soviet satellite with basically no individual rights to one of the freer countries in the world. The Polish people are responsible in large part for taking the risks in the 70's and 80's, knowing the risks they faced, such as the Hungarians in '56 and Czech's in '68. Nevertheless, they tried and in fact, one of their own, became Pope and pushed for religious freedom.

The Poles have much to take pride in regarding not only the transformation of their own country, but for playing a role in creating a freer Eastern Europe than had been for decades, perhaps ever. There are downsides, to be sure, but to say things haven't changed because abortion and gay rights are not legal is simply an indefensible statement.

[devilgrrl]

47. I stand corrected...

in fairness though, it is not like our lovely media discusses the ins and outs of Poland. Even so, I thank the posters such as yourself for setting me straight.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[devilgrrl]

29. Aren't you a brave one?

:eyes:

[salin]

45. his points were well spoken and informative

too bad you missed it.

[OnyxCollie]

24. Welcome to DU!

I appreciate your comments.:hi:

[Crunchy Frog]

42. Welcome to DU, and thanks for the valuable perspective.

I hope you'll continue posting here. :hi:

[valerief]

2. Did socialized medicine or free-trade medicine keep him alive? nt

[Posteritatis]

6. I think Poland still has the former

[valerief]

28. Yeah, he'd be dead in America. Unless there was a prez election. nt

[opihimoimoi]

3. Rip Van Grzebski woke up? OMG.....

[meegbear]

4. Holy Good Bye, Lenin! Batman!

October 1989 was a bad time to fall into a coma if you lived in East Germany - and this is precisely what happens to Alex's mother, an activist for social progress and the improvement of everyday life in socialist East Germany. Alex has a big problem on his hands when she suddenly awakens eight months later. Her heart is so weak that any shock might kill her. And what could be more shocking than the fall of the Berlin Wall and the triumph of capitalism in her beloved country? To save his mother, Alex transforms the family apartment into an island of the past, a kind of socialist museum where his mother is lovingly duped into believing that nothing has changed. What begins as a little white lie gets more and more out of hand as Alex's mother, who feels better every day, wants to watch TV and even leaves her bed one day…

In a wonderful, touching and comic manner, Good Bye, Lenin! tells the story of how a loving son tries to move mountains and create miracles to restore his mother to health - and keep her in the belief that Lenin really did win after all!

http://www.german-cinema.de/app/filmarchive/film_view.php?film_id=939

[MrPrax]

10. Thumps Up...superb film

I thought the same thing...the OP story seems more, shall we say, miraculous...rather than typical.

[kskiska]

41. I loved Goodbye Lenin

Her son even changed the labels on pickle jars to her favorite brand, now unavailable, and had a friend videotape news programs using old stories.

[rurallib]

5. Wait til he hears about W

"I thought my mind wasn't being used. This guy is a moron"

[Posteritatis]

7. "Screw this, I'm going back to bed." (nt)

[Kagemusha]

8. Now that's quite a wake-up call.

Wonder if he's sure he's really awake.

[Sabriel]

9. Imagine if a US citizen lapsed into a coma in 1999...

...and woke up today. Kind of a reversal of the Polish story.

BTW, if you'd like to watch a fun offbeat movie with a similar storyline, try this:

Goodybe, Lenin!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0301357/

It's about a son who tries to shield his mother from finding out what happened to East Germany while she was in a coma.

[eppur_se_muova]

12. I was just thinking this might be one way to deal with Bu**sh**.

Most of his "speeches" are pretty coma-inducing anyway.

[ohio2007]

16. When I went into a coma there was only tea and vinegar in the shops,

meat was rationed and huge petrol queues were everywhere," Grzebski told TVN24, describing his recollections of the communist system's economic collapse.

"Now I see people on the streets with cell phones and there are so many goods in the shops it makes my head spin."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070602/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_poland_awakening

I'd say he is pleased with what the Poles have accomplished in less than a generation.

Now as for this French woman's two year coma;


Sleeping Pill Wakes Woman After 2 Years in Coma
March 13, 2007 08:40:45 PM PST
By Jeffrey Perkel

TUESDAY, March 13 (HealthDay News) -- A dose of the prescription sleep aid Ambien had the opposite effect on one French woman, awakening her from a two-year coma.


http://health.yahoo.com/news/172959

Her country has changed in two years but I'm sure she would still recognize it

[Edweird]

19. How cool is that?

[Lisa]

20. he'll have a lot to catch up on with his family, as well ...

Aside from all the political/cultural changes (leafing through a copy of Time or Newsweek from 1988 gives an idea of what's happened, even in the West -- easier just to go to the library stacks because a lot of the material from "that far back" isn't available online) .... imagine waking up to find that your loved ones were almost 20 years older and you had 11 grandkids! That in itself would be a big shocker.

Several years ago, I went with my father to visit his old neighborhood (which he hadn't seen since 1941). It was a surreal experience ... the place is now crowded with glittering skyscrapers, but he said that the bus routes still had the exact same numbers as when he was a kid! And his old school, I was relieved to see, wasn't demolished but has been upgraded with computers etc. -- he said the whole thing was kind of like the science fiction novels he read in the 1930s, complete with a monorail!

[Up2Late]

27. I think someone made a movie like this a few years ago...

...but different countries.

[Crunchy Frog]

38. "Good Bye Lenin!"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0301357/

Set in Eastern Germany. An excellent movie. I wouldn't have thought it could happen in real life though.

[Up2Late]

43. Yes! That's the one!

:evilgrin:
I always wanted to see that one, but I haven't seen very many movies since the 2000 Florida Election fiasco. I've spent most of the last 6 years doing stuff like this here at DU and other similar sites before that.

[otherlander]

40. Oh, man, that poor guy...

I can't imagine how much that would suck. You get in an accident and pass out. Then you wake up. And then the doctors come in, happy you're awake. Then they tell you that you have nineteen less years to live... :scared: