Immigration bill in doubt after vote

[Contrary1]

Source: MSNBC

"WASHINGTON - A fragile compromise that would legalize millions of unlawful immigrants risks coming unraveled after the Senate voted early Thursday to place a five-year limit on a program meant to provide U.S. employers with 200,000 temporary foreign workers annually.

The 49-48 vote came two weeks after the Senate, also by a one-vote margin, rejected the same amendment by Sen. Byron Dorgan. The North Dakota Democrat says immigrants take many jobs Americans could fill.

The reversal dismayed backers of the immigration bill, which is supported by President Bush but loathed by many conservatives. Business interests and their congressional allies were already angry that the temporary worker program had been cut in half from its original 400,000-person-a-year target..."



Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19089103/

[firefox_fan]

1. So, there aren't enough US citizens who could take these jobs?

Hard to believe...

[maxrandb]

2. My wife had a good point last night

She said; "Let's just see how many Americans will pick crops in the San Juaquin Valley in CA in 115 degree heat for 12-14 hours a day.

She guessed there may be some, but that the majority wouldn't last a week.

[MH1]

5. Why 12-14 hours per day? Or is that only 3-4 days per week?

I think if the work weeks were 40 hours average, you'd find lots of folks who would do it, for reasonable pay.

[Critters2]

7. Exactly. Employers abuse illegal workers,

and don't want to hire Americans who will insist on decent wages and fair work conditions. I detasseled for 8 hours a day, for good pay. Now, that work is done by illegal immigrants. At less pay for longer hours. Go back to the 8 hour day and a fair wage, and watch Americans start applying for the jobs.

[maxrandb]

11. Not to mention that I doubt the immigrant workers

get benefits like Workers Comp, Sick Days, or leave.

The policies of Reagan and the Supply-Siders are already trying to turn us into a Fuedal System. The last missing piece they need are enough desperate Americans willing to work for slave wages in conditions that would make the old assemnly lines look like a walk in the park. The only thing that has prevented it is the influx of undocumented workers.

[bdamomma]

14. for reasonable pay would be the main factor.

[thethinker]

8. Well

How do you think they got picked before we had million of illegals? Jobs that are being filled by illegals used to pay a decent wage and have decent working conditions. A good example is new home construction jobs which used to be high wage jobs.

Does your wife think it is OK for any human being to work 12-14 hour shifts in 115 degree heat? Because someone will, does that make it OK?

[maxrandb]

12. That wasn't her point

Her point is that it's not that Americans are not willing to do the work, but that they would not do it for the peanuts and zero benefits that illegals are getting.

Not for 12 hours in the 115 degree heat, anyway.

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

19. What do you mean peanuts?

Many illegals transfer some money back to Mexico. The exchange rate makes it rather lucrative. Here in America, we don't get that luxury.

That's why we need good pay and benefits.

This is the new method of scabbing American workers.

[maxrandb]

26. I think to most Americans $3 an hour would constitute "Peanuts"

You could make more money as a Paper Boy. Why would Americans work the fields to those wages.

You know what I think is coming next? Prison Harvest Workers.

Mark my word. If there are not enough immigrants to pick the crops cheap, we'll start seeing the "Orange Jumpsuit Brigade". Great to live in Medieval Times, isn't it?

[saigon68]

10. The illegals will work for 18 hours a day for $3.00 an hour in cash

The exploiters (employers) should be in PRISON

[zanne]

17. It's not just agricultural work.

Do you really think big business will pass up the opportunity to hire cheap labor everywhere they possibly can? Construction work used to pay the rent for people. If they can get people to do it for half the wages, why wouldn't they? What about assembly work that some people depend on now to feed their families? Not to mention service work that plenty of Americans do?

[napi21]

3. Nope! Not enough who would take them AT MINIMUM WAGE!

That's what upsets ME the most! These poor people are so desperate, they agree to disgusting working conditions, intimidation, threats, and minimum wage or in some cases LESS THAN THAT!

[Critters2]

6. In nearly all cases less than minimum for illegals

That's the point in hiring illegals--they'll work at less than is legally allowable. Workers should be paid what their work is worth.

[High Plains]

16. I wonder about that.

I hear that said often, but I've known a few undocumented workers over the years, and none of them were working below minimum wage.

[Critters2]

20. I've known quite a few undocumented workers, too

And none of them were being paid minimum wage. They were cutting your meat and feeding factory farmed animals. For less than minimum wages, and in conditions that violated OSHA regulations.

Why do you think the US Chamber of commerce wants this bill passed so badly?

[High Plains]

25. Funny, the undocumented meat packers I knew...

...were getting the same wages as the guys they worked beside.

[zanne]

18. If immigrants were guaranteed "regular" wages

And by that I mean the same wages Americans get or would get for the same work, big business wouldn't be twisting arms in congress to let immigrants in to work on the cheap. There is only one reason politicians want a special "worker" program and I think we all know that.

[Eugene]

4. AP: Immigration Bill Fails Key Test-Vote (33-63)

Source: Associated Press

Immigration Bill Fails Key Test-Vote

Thursday June 7, 2007 5:16 PM

AP Photo NY130

By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS

Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - A fragile bipartisan compromise that
would legalize millions of unlawful immigrants suffered
a setback Thursday when it failed a test vote, leaving
its prospects uncertain.

Still, the measure - a top priority for President Bush
that's under attack from the right and left - got a
reprieve when Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said
he would give it more time before yanking the bill and
moving on to other matters.

“We need to complete this marathon,” Reid said.

His decision set the stage for yet another procedural
vote later Thursday that will measure lawmakers' appetite
for a so-called “grand bargain” between liberals and
conservatives on immigration.

By a vote of 33-63, the Senate fell far short of the
60 votes that would have been needed to limit debate...

-snip-

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6691642,00.html

[thethinker]

9. This is not a good bill

and I am sorry so many Democrats are backing it.

[napi21]

13. No it wasn't. I think some are so desperate to fix the mess, they're

willing to try any suggestion. I did not read the entire bill, but from the parts I've heard, it truely sounds like the mandates COULDN'T be don in practical application. ie: A 24 hour background check? By crystal ball I guess!!!! Then there's that fine...$7,000 to $30,000? I couldn't come up with that amount of money, and although I'm sure not wealthy, I'm not living in a trailer with 20 other people and working under the table for $3.00/hr either. How the hell were any of the illegals supposed to come up with THAT? The list goes on and on with many more regulations that in practicality just can't happen!

[w4rma]

24. This is a very bad bill. (nt)

[pampango]

21. If this bill goes down, we will ironically have the Repubs to thank

for killing it. It has more Democratic support than from the Repubs.

Then we will be back to the same immigration mess that we have been in for years. Everyone has their pet solution: fine the employers, build the wall, legalization, round 'em up and ship 'em back, but the reality is that the only realistic political action involves compromise that neither side can stomach.

The irony is that many here at DU will be uniting with the Repub base against Ted Kennedy to keep the stream of illegal immigrants coming to the US as they have for years. There will be no other immigration bills during this Congress, if this one doesn't succeed.

[fasttense]

22. Well, do we really need it?

There are laws already on the books that would make most of the employers of illegals criminals. Here is an excerpt from The Federal Immigration and Nationality Act Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii) http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/AidAbetUnlawfulSec8USC1324.html

"Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief."

The problem is that since Raygun's days, no executive department has held the employer of illegals accountable. The justice department has turned a blind eye to these illegal employers. So if we would just enforce current laws, we would not have 12 million illegal immigrants in this country.

Why pass another law to be ignored?

[pampango]

23. There has been no political will on the part of administrations of either party

to enforce immigration laws against employers. It is a sad fact, but it is a fact. I do not see it changing any time soon.

With the defeat of this immigration bill, we are stuck with the mess that exists now - 12 million powerless and exploited illegal immigrants and more arriving all the time.

You are right that the new law might just have been ignored like the old one was, but it is at least possible that enforcement would have been stepped up as a part of the compromise. We already know that the old law has not, and will not, be enforced.

We all have solutions to the problem that appeal to us - whether it is a wall, employer sanctions, legalization, etc. If each side holds out until they get all that they want, nothing will happen for a long time. Illegal immigrants will still come but be powerless and exploited and employers will still hire them. In other words, nothing will change.

[rusty_parts2001]

15. Paris Hilton can't stand 3 days in an air-conditioned jail