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demoleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 04:47 PM
Original message
US confirms missile shield plans
Source: BBC

The US Defence Secretary Robert Gates has confirmed the US will go ahead with plans to install parts of a missile defence shield in eastern Europe.
He said Washington viewed a Russian offer to use a base in Azerbaijan as an additional capability not a substitute.

The US says the shield is necessary to protect against any missile attacks from "rogue states".

Russia recently threatened to target missiles against Europe if the US went ahead with the shield.



Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6754709.stm



What was that Springsteen song?
One step up and two steps back...
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BlackHawk706867 Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Don't be surprised at Russia's reaction to this along with China...
These people are absolute A...holes and don't listen to anyone else....

ww
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. That is not what Putin said
Azerbaijan was not an additional capability. Azerbaijan would mean that it was to defend against Afghanistan and the Middle-East and Eastern Europe simply means that Bush regards Putin as the enemy.


HEILIGENDAMM, Germany: Russian President Vladimir Putin, bitterly opposed to a U.S. missile shield in eastern Europe, told U.S. President George W. Bush that Moscow would drop its objections if the system were installed in Azerbaijan.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/06/08/europe/EU-GEN-Germany-G-8-Bush-Putin.php


There is no "additional" in Mr. Putin's words, BBC! So stop twisting the words to fit an agenda.



And Russia quite rightfully objects to this, because Poland and the Czech Republic make it clear that the so-called rogue state is Russia.
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demoleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Then it's trouble...
...serious trouble. Unless Putin was given free hand in some operation in exchange.
Which makes double trouble.
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. This is real trouble, because Putin offered Azerbaijan to Bush
Edited on Thu Jun-14-07 05:16 PM by DrDebug
It's equally troublesome that Putin's interview with the world's press was not published anywhere, because he had a press conference at G-8 which is reasonably honest and Putin expressed many concerns. None of the media present published the interview which is weird.


WALL STREET JOURNAL: ... and the more countries there are that want to participate in this system. What does Russia gain by being so fiercely opposed to this system? Are you hoping that Washington will eventually abandon its plans to install an anti-missile defence system or do you have other goals, since Washington has already said that it will not allow Russia to veto this programme?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: I would start with the Adapted Conventional Armed Forces Treaty in Europe (ACAF). We have not just stated that we are ready to comply with the treaty, like certain others have done. We really are implementing it: we have removed all of our heavy weapons from the European part of Russia and put them behind the Urals. We have reduced our Armed Forces by 300,000. We have taken several other steps required by the ACAF. But what have we seen in response? Eastern Europe is receiving new weapons, two new military bases are being set up in Romania and in Bulgaria, and there are two new missile launch areas - a radar in Czech republic and missile systems in Poland. And we are asking ourselves the question: what is going on? Russia is disarming unilaterally. But if we disarm unilaterally then we would like to see our partners be willing to do the same thing in Europe. On the contrary, Europe is being pumped full of new weapons systems. And of course we cannot help but be concerned.

What should we do in these circumstances? Of course we have declared a moratorium.

This applies to the missile defence system. But not just the missile defence system itself. Since if this missile system is put in place, it will work automatically with the entire nuclear capability of the United States. It will be an integral part of the US nuclear capability.

I draw your attention and that of your readers to the fact that, for the first time in history - and I want to emphasize this - there are elements of the US nuclear capability on the European continent. It simply changes the whole configuration of international security. That is the second thing.

Finally, thirdly, how do they justify this? By the need to defend themselves against Iranian missiles. But there are no such missiles. Iran has no missiles with a range of 5,000 to 8,000 kilometres. In other words, we are being told that this missile defence system is there to defend against something that doesn't exist. Do you not think that this is even a little bit funny? But it would only be funny if it were not so said. We are not satisfied with the explanations that we are hearing. There is no justification whatsoever for installing a missile defence system in Europe. Our military experts certainly believe that this system affects the territory of the Russian Federation in front of the Ural mountains. And of course we have to respond to that.

And now I would like to give a definite answer to your question: what do we want? First of all, we want to be heard. We want our position to be understood. We do not exclude that our American partners might reconsider their decision. We are not imposing anything on anyone. But we are proceeding from common sense and think that everyone else could also use their common s ense. But if this does not take place then we will absolve ourselves from the responsibility of our retaliatory steps because we are not initiating what is certainly growing into a new arms race in Europe. And we want everybody to understand very clearly that we are not going to bear responsibility for this arms race. For example, when they try to shift this responsibility to us in connection with our efforts to improve our strategic nuclear weapons. We did not initiate the withdrawal from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty. But what response did we give when we discussed this issue with our American partners? We said that we do not have the resources and desire to establish such a system. But as professionals we both understand that a missile defence system for one side and no such a system for the other creates an illusion of security and increases the possibility of a nuclear conflict.

(...)

At that point our partners said: "there's nothing wrong, we are not enemies, we are not going to work against one another". We would point out that we are simply answering them: "we warned you, we talked about this, you answered us a certain way. So we are going to do what we said we would". And if they put a missile defence system in Europe - and we are warning this today - there will be retaliatory measures. We need to ensure our security. And we are not the proponents of this process.

(...)

© Copyright , Russian President's website , 2007

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5938


And the press did not feel it was necessary to publish this story and it was only published on Putin's personal website.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Published in the Globe and Mail
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070604.wputintext0604/BNStory/specialComment/

and The Times story on it: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/teol/news/world/europe/article1878792.ece

and the Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118090427499323013.html

and Kommersant: http://www.kommersant.com/p771175/Putin,_G8/

Whether the non-English language papers who were there have published in, in English or their own languages, I don't know.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. They said Gates called it 'additional', not Putin (n/t)
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Then Gates is twisting his words, but Putin's response was very clear
Congratulations Cold War II

I guess that two wars and one in the process was not enough. Let's have enemies in four corners. Never mind that AK-47s are the weapons of choice for the insurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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arewenotdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Bush and the other crazy MF'ing criminals-in-charge won't be happy
Edited on Thu Jun-14-07 05:14 PM by arewenotdemo
until they can plunge the entire world into nuclear war.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. who are they defending against?
if it really is russia the system will not work...
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. oh you know what a danger to the US are Belarus and Tajikistan
Edited on Thu Jun-14-07 09:42 PM by wordpix
Why, their missiles could strike us within 45 min., just like Saddam's.

I'm sure there's some oil in that area BushCo wants to defend. :puke: That would explain it.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. Can we say "Boon Doggle"... ? Of course, we can.
The darn thing has never worked. It is only about a) massive taxpayer dollars being gifted to the military defense industrial complex and b) starting a new arms race with Russia - ensuring more future taxpayer massive subsidies for the MDIC.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. You know the Military Industrial Complex and our intelligence services...
are strafing over this "new world peace" that has reigned since the USSR's collapse. In addition, the War on Terror, which is supposed to be the new boogyman, is itself a failure, and too vague, to allow them to increase funding for specific projects. China is a decade or more from being a true threat, if they will ever be a threat, so they go to plan B, antagonize Russia all over again. I will say the Putin doesn't help the situation, he's an ass himself.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I would agree on all counts
but would add that I think that Putin is more than an ass - he is down right scary. Has disbanded elections for representatives of the equivalent of their senate (and governors?) - and greatly diminished powers of the judiciary. Yet bushco only gets concerned when Putin voices opposition to US policies. Sorta belies this admins stated principle of "promoting democracy" around the country.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. What with the voter suppression going on, they definately aren't promoting democracy...
in this country. Sorry, no making fun of you, and I understand what you are saying, Putin, as I said, is an ass, and more than that, I think he is trying his trying to destroy Democracy in Russia, which is a point of concern. Of course, with Bush in charge here, we can forget diplomacy, the guy cops a feel with heads of state, diplomacy is definitely not his strong suit. All we can hope for is that he doesn't completely destroy relations with Russia until a Democrat enters office.
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. I haven't seen this clearly stated -- are we talking theater ballistic missiles, or ICBMs?
It's reasonable to think theater ballistic could be intercepted. But ICBMs? No way.
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badgervan Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. What Idiocy
Guess who pays for this unneeded poke in Russia's eye? Can this administration get any more stupid, dangerous, arrogant, uncaring, stubborn, just plain mean and bullying? I know, I know - they sure can, and they're proving it daily. Can we make it another year and a half?
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CHIMO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. NATO considers missile defences for southern flank in tandem with U.S. shield
NATO considers missile defences for southern flank in tandem with U.S. shield
Published: Thursday, June 14, 2007 | 3:03 PM ET
Canadian Press: PAUL AMES

BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) - NATO ordered its military experts Thursday to draw up plans for a possible short-range missile defence system to protect countries on the alliance's southern flank that would be left exposed by proposed U.S. anti-missile units in central Europe.

Washington says the addition of the European bases to anti-missile installations in North America would protect most of Europe from the threat of long-range attack from Iran or elsewhere in the Middle East. But it would leave Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria and parts of Romania exposed.

To fill that gap, de Hoop Scheffer said NATO experts would produce a report by February on a short-range anti-missile defences "that can be bolted on to the overall missile defence system as it would be installed by the United States."

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/070614/w061477A.html

So start planning on your bomb shelter now.

Wonder if Cuba is looking around for some support?
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BringBigDogBack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. wow....
this is beyond rediculous.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. these fuckheads are getting ready to blow up the world with their StarWars arms race
We have to stop them!
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BringBigDogBack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
16. .
I really hate this entire administration. Not one of them has a soul.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
19. hey, King Gorge---how about fixing the highways, bridges & schools
friggin wasteful drunk sailor spender-on-wars :grr:
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Speaker Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. How is that going to help us...
kill brown people for Jesus?
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Speaker Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. Then it's Putin's turn....
to carve a bigger stick than ours. Then it's our turn to carve a bigger stick than his.
Then it's his turn to carve....
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LastLiberal in PalmSprings Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
24. The 'missile defense' system is a joke, both in concept and execution
Why is it that people who deny the existence of global warming despite overwhelming evidence are so willing to believe in the ABM system, which has never, ever worked in a real-world test?

This is *'s gift to the military-industrial complex, a gift that will keep on giving long after he is out of office. Once the first cubic yard of concrete is poured, we can NEVER shut the system down, no matter how much of a financial black hole it becomes. It's called the "lost cost fallacy," like not getting rid of an old car because you've put so much money in it to repair all the malfunctions. The system will always require more and more money to make it more reliable, and anyone who points out its uselessness is obviously "weak on defense."
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cqo_000 Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. I think Bush is being extremely unreasonable
This could get ugly.
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conspirator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
26. What if Venezuela and Cuba deployed Russian missiles? (just speculation)nt
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
27. Kick.
:kick:
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conspirator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
28. BWAHAHAHAHAHA additional? what a joke.
So Putin says he is upset with the bases. And would provide additional bases to show how happy he is.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
29. A complete waste of YOUR TAX DOLLARS
Complete. This is nothing but large scale in your face corporate welfare.
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bikebloke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
30. It has nothing to do with "defense".
Pure profiteering for certain aerospace contractors left out of the Iraqi trough. Damn freedom fighters....umm terrists, refuse to fight like men with intercontinental ballistic missiles.
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