White House denies prior knowledge of Abu Ghraib abuse

[maddezmom]

Source: AFP

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The White House on Sunday insisted that President George W. Bush first learned about abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison from media reports, contrary to assertions by a former top general that Bush likely knew about the scandal before it broke.

"The President said over three years ago that he first saw the pictures of the abuse on television," said White House spokesman Scott Stanzel in Crawford, Texas, where Bush is spending the weekend at his ranch.

Stanzel was responding to questions about a New Yorker magazine report quoting the top military investigator of the Abu Ghraib scandal, retired Army Major General Antonio Taguba, as saying "the president had to be aware" of the abuse of prisoners by US military guards at the facility.

In the magazine interview, Taguba also said former defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld had initially denied knowledge of the lurid photographs of prisoner abuse, when he met him on May 6, 2004, two months after the scandal broke.

At best, Taguba said, "Rumsfeld was in denial ... The photographs were available to him -- if he wanted to see them."



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070618/ts_alt_afp/usiraqmilitaryprisonabughraibbush_070618020119

---

more from the CNN's transcript of Sy Hersh interview:

SEYMOUR HERSH, "NEW YORKER" MAGAZINE: Very simply that the notion, as they told Congress, that our leader, Rumsfeld, Donald Rumsfeld, the secretary of defense and his aides, they all went and testified in May after the stories about Abu Ghraib became public that "Oh, my god, we just didn't know about it until -- we didn't realize how serious it was" is simply not true.

The fact is that, within a few days of the incident first getting reported internally, which was in January of '04, the back channel was flying. There were messages going.

And the back channel showed very clearly the documents -- the actual cables show that Rumsfeld and his aides and Wolfowitz and his aides and the director of the Joint staff, all these senior people at the Pentagon were getting very detailed -- they didn't see the photographs; they were getting verbal accounts of the photographs that made it very clear.

It was taken very seriously, within days, from the top to bottom of the government.

~snip~

HERSH: Oh, my God, two months. Is it possible -- you know, the question you have to ask about the president is this. No matter when he learned, and certainly he learned before it became public, and no matter how detailed it was, is there any evidence that the president of the United States said to Rumsfeld, what's going on there, Don? Let's get an investigation going.

Did he do anything? Did he ask for a -- did he want to have the generals come in and talk to him about it?

Did he want to change the rules? Did he want to improve the conditions?

BLITZER: And what's the answer?

HERSH: Nada. He did nothing. And you know what it meant?

Inside the chain of command, the military, you get a bad case like this; it's all known inside; nobody at the top says another word to you. Everybody understands one thing: this is not a way to get ahead in a career, to start being very tough...

more:http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0706/17/le.01.html

[magellan]

1. I hope somebody outside this country

...is looking at ways to hold Bush** and his minions accountable for their war crimes, because that appears to be the only way justice will ever be done.

[1932]

2. Just because Bush didn't know about it does not mean it wasn't part of deliberate plan

that people high knew about.

[ClassWarrior]

29. Oh he knew alright. When someone asks, "What did you know..."

"...and when did you know it," and he avoids the question with misdirection - "I first saw the pictures on teevee" - you know he's lying.

NGU.

[badgervan]

3. Notice the Quote...

..."First saw the pictures of Abu Ghraib on television". That is typical Rove inspired bullshit. It's probably true, but seeing the pictures for the first time doesn't mean he wasn't fully knowledgeable about what was going on. Damn, I hate these guys.

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. You're absolutely right

That actual line may be true - Bush didn't see the actual pictures - but it says nothing about whether he knew. The sad thing is that the reporter then did Bush's work for him, by changing the meaning into what Bush would like us to believe.

You'd think that after six and a half years of Bush (and, let's face it, decades from all politicians - it's not as if Bush and Co invented the art of misleading with carefully selected words), the reporters and editors would have learnt to do their job. After Stanzel said that, the very next question should have been "we're not asking about when he saw the pictures - we're asking about when Bush knew about the abuse?". And even when the reporters had failed, any editor should have rejected the piece, telling him what a useless waste of space he was for letting the White House get away with it.

[speedoo]

21. Exactly right.

MSM continues to enable.

[freefall]

22. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly! n/t

[tanyev]

12. In fact, Hersh mentions something in the article about how people were

adamant that they did not want to see the pictures. One thing they do spend a lot of time thinking about it how to maintain plausible deniability.

[liam_laddie]

24. Extremely narrow parsing of word meaning...

The same bullshit method rethug witnesses use every day before the investigative committees. Why can't the Dems ask very pointed, very detailed questions, to avoid all these "plausible deniability" responses. :mad: Very discouraging...what are the staffs doing? They need to coach the questioners as thoroughly as the witnesses are (by enemies of the state.)

[Faux pas]

4. Those nimrods wouldn't know the truth if it bit them on the butt.

I love how they think our memories are as swiss-cheesed as theirs are. Give me blanking break.

[Judi Lynn]

7. They're all banking on their belief there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.

They are absolutely free to tell us the biggest whoppers ever concocted in the history of the human race, and we can only mumble among ourselves, the Democrats, that is.

For a walk down memory lane, here's a link I just discovered showing that Young Republican who kicked a Democratic protester who had been knocked to the floor, during the Republican National Convention in New York. Click the link at "(video here)" right under the little lad's photo:
http://debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=11507



Young Republican confused
about the meaning of free speech.

[Faux pas]

30. I'd almost forgotten that wonderful representation of republican

youth. I bet the hitler youth crowd would be so proud. I'm so disgustipated with all the lies and BS, and with our Dems, playing right along with it all. We've been hoodwinked, robbed and screwed over.

[NastyRiffraff]

6. When all this broke, Bush was reported as angry...

about the pictures, rather than the torture. So yeah, I can believe he "first saw the pictures of the abuse on television." But I can't buy that he knew nothing about the situation at Abu Ghraib, even knowing he hates being told bad news. Because for him, torture wasn't bad news; it was the fact that it was made graphically public.

[maddezmom]

8. Abu Ghraib: What Did 'They' Know and 'When' Did They Know It?

Abu Ghraib: What Did 'They' Know and 'When' Did They Know It?
From SourceWatch
This article is part of SourceWatch
coverage of Abu Ghraib
Main article:
Abu Ghraib

Sub-articles:
Accountability
Bush administration reaction (including damage control and cover-up)
Bush administration and torture
Charges Against Military Personnel
Congressional Investigation
Fraternity 'Hazing': "Not as Bad as Saddam"
Ghost Detainees
Interrogation Methods and Legal Issues
Media Coverage
Photographic Evidence of Brutality
private military contractors
sexual abuse
The Rumsfeld Factor
What Did "They" Know and "When" Did They Know It?
Articles & Commentary on Abu Ghraib
Additional SourceWatch Resources related to Abu Ghraib
Afghanistan detainee abuse scandal
Iraqi detainee abuse scandal

Speculation abounds as to What Did 'They' Know and 'When' Did They Know It? regarding the alleged acts of brutality, abuse, and torture in the ten Enemy Prisoner of War Camps in Iraq, including Abu Ghraib and Camp Bucca.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the headlines
Cursor.org comments on May 24, 2004: "Nicholas Kristof uses Taguba's report to defend Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, writing (May 22, 2004) that 'if, as Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba has said in his report... the problems were at much lower levels, then why make a scapegoat of the defense secretary (Donald Rumsfeld)?' But Taguba's investigation was limited to much lower levels. He testified that 'my task was limited to the allegations of detainee abuse involving M.P. personnel and the policies, procedures and command climate of the 800th M.P. Brigade.'" (emphasis added).
Seymour M. Hersh, "Rumsfeld Knew: Iraq Prison Abuse Part of Pentagon-Approved Black Ops Program," Democracy Now!, May 17, 2004. Audio, video, and transcript.
Washington Post writers Peter Slevin and Robin Wright reported May 8, 2004, that the "Pentagon Was Warned of Abuse Months Ago. U.S. Officials, Rights Groups Sought Changes."
"From U.S. administrator L. Paul Bremer and Secretary of State Colin L. Powell to investigators for the International Committee of the Red Cross who "delivered repeated warnings", a broad array of officials pressed the Pentagon to improve conditions or face a likely Iraqi backlash, officials from the government and the organizations said yesterday.
"Amnesty International sounded an alarm at a Baghdad news conference in May 2003 ..."
"Powell raised the detainee issue frequently in meetings of the Bush national security team, aides reported. They said he often felt like a lone voice."

more:http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Abu_Ghraib:_What_Did_'They'_Know_and_'When'_Did_They_Know_It%3F

[Warren Stupidity]

9. Oh how quaint, the deliberate application of torture methods

developed in Afghanistan and at Guantanamo, applied by policy to the counter-insurgency operations in Iraq, were down without the explicit knowledge of one George W. Bush. No shit. The Texas Oil Mafia is no different in its operational practices than any other organized criminal enterprise.

[Roland99]

10. BULLSHIT they didn't know!!!! BULL-SHIT!!!! >>>>>>

International Red Cross report from Feb. 2004
http://images.indymedia.org/imc/washingtondc/media/application/8/redcrossiraq.pdf

Red Cross Report Describes Abuse in Iraq
http://www.worldrevolution.org/article/1375

GENEVA - The Red Cross saw American officers mistreating Abu Ghraib prisoners by keeping them naked in total darkness in empty cells, and up to 90 percent of Iraqi detainees were arrested by mistake, according to a report disclosed Monday.

The report by the International Committee of the Red Cross supports its allegations that abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers was broad and "not individual acts" — contrary to President Bush (news - web sites)'s contention that the mistreatment "was the wrongdoing of a few."

"ICRC delegates directly witnessed and documented a variety of methods used to secure the cooperation of the persons deprived of their liberty with their interrogators," according to the confidential report.

The delegates saw in October how detainees at Abu Ghraib were kept "completely naked in totally empty concrete cells and in total darkness," the report said. It said it found evidence supporting prisoners' allegations of other forms of abuse during arrest, initial detention and interrogation.

Red Cross Says Repeatedly Warned U.S. on Iraq Jail
http://www.worldrevolution.org/news/article1368.htm

GENEVA (Reuters) - The International Committee of the Red Cross said Thursday it had repeatedly urged the United States to take "corrective action" at a Baghdad jail at the center of a scandal over abuse of Iraqi prisoners.

The Geneva-based humanitarian agency, mandated under international treaties to visit detainees, has had regular access to Abu Ghraib prison since U.S.-led forces began using it last year, said chief spokeswoman Antonella Notari.

"The ICRC, aware of the situation, and based on its findings, has repeatedly asked the U.S. authorities to take corrective action," she told Reuters.

Notari declined to give details of what the ICRC had seen during the visits, which take place every five to six weeks, or about its reports to the U.S. authorities.

Asked about the ICRC alerts, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said: "When they raise concerns, we take those concerns seriously... When it comes to the Red Cross, there are actions that have been taken."

"And when allegations of prisoner abuse came to light more recently, the military in the region immediately began taking steps to ... see just who was responsible for these actions and take steps to punish those individuals."

[Solly Mack]

11. recommended He knew. He approved.

[SpiralHawk]

13. "you can always trust me - smirk, smirk, smirk" - Commander AWOL

"Torture, ummm, is like for evil doers and stuff - Smirk, smirk, smirk"

- Commander AWOL, Uber Hero for Republicon Chickenhawk Skull & Boner Occult Cabal Brigade

[C_U_L8R]

14. He who denied it supplied it

pffft

[dkofos]

15. They probably had a live feed.

[VanPelt4IndSenate]

16. I hope the world court reads DU

Bush needs to be brought before a real court.

[seafan]

17. They are all LIARS.

White House denies prior knowledge of Abu Ghraib abuse

June 17, 2007

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The White House on Sunday insisted that President George W. Bush first learned about abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison from media reports, contrary to assertions by a former top general that Bush likely knew about the scandal before it broke.

"The President said over three years ago that he first saw the pictures of the abuse on television," said White House spokesman Scott Stanzel in Crawford, Texas, where Bush is spending the weekend at his ranch.

Stanzel was responding to questions about a New Yorker magazine report quoting the top military investigator of the Abu Ghraib scandal, retired Army Major General Antonio Taguba, as saying "the president had to be aware" of the abuse of prisoners by US military guards at the facility.

In the magazine interview, Taguba also said former defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld had initially denied knowledge of the lurid photographs of prisoner abuse, when he met him on May 6, 2004, two months after the scandal broke.

At best, Taguba said, "Rumsfeld was in denial ... The photographs were available to him -- if he wanted to see them."

.....

From Seymour Hersh's devastating article, The General's Report:


June 25, 2007 Issue
The New Yorker

.....

Rumsfeld was vague, in his appearances before Congress, about when he had informed the President about Abu Ghraib, saying that it could have been late January or early February. He explained that he routinely met with the President “once or twice a week . . . and I don’t keep notes about what I do.” He did remember that in mid-March he and General Myers were “meeting with the President and discussed the reports that we had obviously heard” about Abu Ghraib.

Whether the President was told about Abu Ghraib in January (when e-mails informed the Pentagon of the seriousness of the abuses and of the existence of photographs) or in March (when Taguba filed his report), Bush made no known effort to forcefully address the treatment of prisoners before the scandal became public, or to reëvaluate the training of military police and interrogators, or the practices of the task forces that he had authorized. Instead, Bush acquiesced in the prosecution of a few lower-level soldiers. The President’s failure to act decisively resonated through the military chain of command: aggressive prosecution of crimes against detainees was not conducive to a successful career.

.....

[rodeodance]

18. well, now that the WH has made a Declarative NO---all is well.

puke

[mnhtnbb]

19. Lie and deny. It's the Republi- con way.

[Take_The_Red_Pill]

20. Serious Consequences

Is it a coincidence that our soldiers are being kidnapped and beheaded? How many US soldiers were abducted and killed by Al-Qaeda or Iraqi insurgents before Iraq's Abu Ghraib? The world would unite with us, if Bush and Cheney and the other bumbling idiots had not sold 60 years of trust, dependability, and credibility down the road on a neo-con energy grab that was managed with the competence of a 35 year-old, unemployed, paint-huffer. Of course they knew. Like everything else that mattered and matters, it doesn't concern them.

[april]

23. congress had a meeting

a while ago from what I remember there was a closed door meeting and everyone( congress ) was shown the photos of abuse
if I am wrong please feel free to correct me

[LibDemAlways]

25. Of course chimp and Rumsfeld knew. They ordered it.

There isn't anything these thugs won't lie about. Then they lie some more to cover their other lies. And the media aids and abets them with bs stories about their denials.

The contrast between this and how the corporate whore press treats the next Dem administration is going to be very telling. Every heinous crime Bush has been involved in has been ignored or dismissed. The first small mistake wrought by a Dem president or someone in his/her admin. will bring about the swift and sudden condemnation of a suddenly wide-awake and ready to pounce media.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

26. CNN's own coverage of CENT-COM

reported the abuse. CENT-COM added, "there may be photographs."

[Miss_Underestimated]

27. Maybe they "forgot" that they knew -- just like they seem to have

"forgotten" so much and have made good use of the line "I do not remember":mad:

[classysassy]

28. Lies

that only most republicans believe.Most republicans are crooks or stupid.