Furniture Store Fire: Latest Updates

[krispos42]

Source: WCBD-TV, Charleston, SC (NBC channel 2)

Monday, Jun 18, 2007 - 07:46 PM Updated: 02:31 AM

Firefighters battled a massive furniture store fire at the Sofa Superstore on savannah Highway. Eyewitnesses say the fire appears to have started in the back of the store. People on the scene reported that the building collapsed.

As of just after 1AM today, two firefighters are confirmed dead, and several others are presumed dead

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Read more: http://www.wcbd.com/midatlantic/cbd/news.apx.-content-articles-CBD-2007-06-18-0031.html

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Two firefighters dead, 'several' missing. This could be as bad as the Worchester, MA fire back in December 1999 that killed six firefighters.

:patriot: :cry: :patriot: :cry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcester_Cold_Storage_Fire

[China_cat]

1. Body count is now 9

I'm in Charleston. They're reporting that there may be more but 9 confirmed.

[krispos42]

4. Jeez, all firefighters? n/t

[China_cat]

7. No word on that

There were a number of employees in the building, 2 are definitely firefighters and there are still more missing but they won't say how many.

Update just this minute. No more firemen unaccounted for. Those thought to be missing have checked in. No word on if there might be employees unaccounted for. The owner of the business is reported to have been one of the casualties (unconfirmed at the moment)

[China_cat]

10. Now confirmed. All 9 dead were firefighters.

They got out the employees safely.

[uppityperson]

20. Oh hell. k&r for firefighters

[Nimrod2005]

2. Sad

[qanda]

3. This is so sad

[Skittles]

5. I will never understand firemen

cannot comprehend their sheer courage

[Warpy]

15. I can.

We're not all temperamentally suited to sitting in air conditioned offices spending half the time making Power Point presentations and the other half watching everybody else's Power Point presentations.

Some of us do physical work, confronting the deepest fears people have. Firemen confront fire and work to defeat it. I confronted a different sort of catastrophe when I worked in the trenches in healthcare.

We need people willing to do all the dirty work of the world, but nobody wants to pay them as well as people in nice suits in air conditioned offices who sit around making Power Point presentations.

This is a terrible story. Nine families are devastated.

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. Huh

I've never seen such a nasty reply to such a heartfelt post.

Congratulations on your acheivement.

[Warpy]

21. .

Bye

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GeorgeGist]

39. Struck a nerve did it?

Truth hurts when it doesn't fit your prejudices.

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. Are you kidding me?

Who's the one with the prejudices here, again?

Let's review: Skittles notes her admiration for firefighters. Warpy goes on some warped assault on office workers. And I'm the one with the nasty prejudices! This is truly an amazing thread.

In any case, my job is very wimpy, safe, and non-productive. I only teach your kids. I sometimes even use PowerPoint and get in a suit, so I guess that makes me a mix between an effete snob and a social fucking parasite.

Whatever. This thread should be for mourning the lost, not getting into absolutely warped and stupid pissing contests about social compensation or whatever the hell you and Warpy are blathering on about.

[Skittles]

42. I did not take it as a nasty reply

I did understand the reply, although my point was the sheer courage it takes to be someone who is willing to put their life on the line AS PART OF THEIR JOB is something that simply awes me

[alcibiades_mystery]

44. It awes me as well

I do not understand why people who work in "air-conditioned offices" should have to be do-nothing parasites for me to be awed by the sheer courage of firefighters. That's what I don't get. Isn't it possible to praise the praiseworthy without blaming some other group?

[Skittles]

50. I think

the poster wanted to make a point about people who do put their lives on the line not getting truly decent compensation but yes, it came across poorly to trash another group. However, I must say that in my career I have seen far, far too many folk working in air-conditioned offices who make way, WAY too much money for what they do. :o

[Gormy Cuss]

19. What you said is too true, Warpy.

Most physical work, even the most dangerous physical work, is not accorded the same pay level as some office jobs that don't amount to a hill of beans in terms of real product.

[China_cat]

23. Our firefighters here in Charleston have been fighting

for years for decent pay and overtime that has been denied them. They also work with less than optimal equipment and it is amazing that this is the first disaster of this type that we have had.

Here's the current ad for personnel in North Charleston. Pay is within $1000/year of the city of Charleston.

FIREFIGHTER

Under regular supervision, receives and responds to fire alarms and other emergency calls as required, and performs the necessary functions and operations to efficiently and effectively protect the lives and property of those in need of assistance. Operates fire apparatus at the scene of emergencies and provides medical assistance at the First Responder, EMT or Paramedic level as certified. Performs related work as required. Requires high school diploma or GED equivalent supplemented by formal training, special courses or self-education that is equivalent to satisfactory completion of one year of college education or specialized advanced training in fire service or a closely related field, or an equivalent combination of education, training and experience that provides the required knowledge, skills and abilities. Must complete required coursework and maintain Interior Structural Firefighter and other certifications as issued by the S.C. Fire Academy. Must possess a valid state driver’s license. Must possess CPR and First Aid certification; may be required to possess EMT or Paramedic certification. Entry Level Salary $24,741.00

Salary tops out at about $40k

[Occulus]

26. All those requirements for that pittance?

Good god. I make more than their max after ten years as a postal worker.

What a shame...

[Lisa]

35. a pittance ... and higher-than-usual cancer rates ...

Some of the firefighters in my home town are taking part in a long-term study -- apparently the dangerous fumes given off by burning plastics, etc., seem to be contributing to higher risks for rare cancers.

Which makes the cutbacks to first responder health coverage that much more reprehensible.

[Marrah_G]

47. My uncle was a lifelong Boston City Fireman

He died of stomach cancer at age 53. It took 6 months from diagnosis to dead taking him from a Huge strapping fireman to a ghost of a man the day he passed. I miss him terribly and I am still thankful for the great honor his co-workers showed at his funeral. They walked his coffin to the church with full honor guard. They also took care of my aunt just as if he died in the fire. Here they treat death from cancer as dying in the line of duty.

I still cry when I hear the bagpipes

[Occulus]

54. That makes me deeply angry

And in a visceral sort of way. Who could have imagined that noxious fumes from unknown chemicals could possibly lead to health problems?

Oh, but it's OK. They're insuuuuurred.

:eyes:

:puke:

:scared:

[Lisa]

59. more on the 25-year cancer study ...

http://www.besafenet.com/pvc/news/archives/2006/02/february_13_-_t.htm


A massive fire in a plastics factory in my hometown was what finally brought this to public attention. Last month, the province finally recognized certain cancers as job-related. The decision is retroactive to 1960.

"Labour Minister Steve Peters introduced the legislation that removes the onus from veteran firefighters to prove that a cancer was caused by their work. The bill passed all three readings at Queen's Park in a matter of minutes Thursday afternoon.

Under the new rules, Ontario's Workplace Safety and Insurance Board would presume that eight types of cancer — as well as heart attacks that happen within 24 hours of battling a fire — are work-related for firefighters.

"We recognize that as people are running out of a building, firefighters are running in and they are exposed to a wide variety of toxins and chemicals," said Peters. "In a car fire, a firefighter can be exposed to 700 types of vapours and chemicals.""



http://www.besafenet.com/pvc/news/archives/2006/02/february_13_-_t.htm

[krispos42]

25. It's not just physical work, it's not just dangerous work....

It's physical, dangerous, skilled work to directly protect our communities.

Digging a ditch or picking vegetables are physical, but not dangerous or particularly skilled. Most people can do it if they had a mind to. Pay is relatively low.

Being a convience-store clerk is not particularly physical or skilled, but it is dangerous. Most people can do it if they have a mind to. Pay is relatively low.

Being a machinist is skilled work, but not particular physical or dangerous. Only a few people can do it. Pay is relatively high.

Firefighters combine all three of those. Relatively few people can combine the physical strength with skills and the willingness to run towards danger. So pay should be relatively high.

But it's not.

Sad to say, I make a fair bit more that the starting wages for a firefighter there, and I am but a machine operator in a factory.

[China_cat]

27. Actually, we have convenience store clerks who make more

than either fire fighters or police.

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. Sounds like a good election issue

Of course, to pay firefighters more, we would have to raise taxes, or cut some other programs. So, maybe not a good election issue. People get all indignant about firefighters after a tragedy. Usually, they claim admis=ration and don't do a damn thing about poor working conditions and pay. So, what's the solution?

I know what's not the solution.

[China_cat]

46. Some of us have been campaigning about this

for years. One of the biggest issues is the distribution of tax money. Do you live here in Charleston Co? Look at your tax bill some time. See where the money goes. Schools no longer get any portion of property tax money. The school BOARD gets plenty. Fire and police get pennies, city and county COUNCILS get the lion's share. But councils are the ones who decide on pay scale and equipment and they've been loathe to give up their own perks in favor of silly little things like city safety services.

[NJmaverick]

33. These were needless deaths

They shouldn't have been in that building. It sounds like this should have been a surround and drown operation. No reason to risk any lives once people are out of a structure like this. Roof collapses are common, so there should have been no interior operation, when the roof went down.

[knitter4democracy]

34. A net-friend of mine used to work for the fire dept. there.

She said that they'd just gotten the two employees trapped inside out when it collapsed. That's why they were in there.

[alteredstate]

60. Yep.

That is correct.

[Skittles]

43. well, I won't second-guess the decisions firemen make

I doubt they risk their lives unnecessarily - my bet is this fire had the potential to spread and cause widespread devastation

[NJmaverick]

56. A good number of fire deaths occur

Because mistakes are made. I am in the emergency services and I see it all the time.

[Marrah_G]

48. They died saving the lives of others.

[LuckyLib]

52. Amen! And states that have no sprinkler laws are still in the Dark Ages. No one should die

to save someone's rotten piece of outdated property.

[alteredstate]

66. Building had no sprinklers - from FirefightingNews.com

"The Sofa Super Store destroyed by fire Monday night was 31,300 square feet _ well above a new state threshold mandating sprinklers for commercial buildings bigger than 12,000 square feet. But because it was an older building, the furniture store was apparently exempt from stricter building codes dating to the early 1990s that were strengthened again in both Carolinas early this decade.

Officials said Tuesday the store had no sprinklers.

It's unclear whether the store under went any significant modifications that would have required sprinklers to be installed, or whether it had any previous building or fire violations. The city refused to release inspection reports requested Tuesday morning by the Charlotte Observer.

Charleston, S.C., Mayor Joe Riley said in a news conference the building was grandfathered in because it predated stricter codes. ...."

link to complete article:

http://www.firefightingnews.com/article-US.cfm?articleID=32830

[Blue Gardener]

6. So sad

These firefighters are true heroes. Not many of us would choose a career that puts your life on the line every day. May they rest in peace. :cry:

[alteredstate]

65. Sad scene on a downtown Charleston street.

On my way home from work tonight I saw a phalanx of motorcycle police in the opposite lane. It looked like the police escorts I've seen with Dubya and Cheney when they're in town. I thought "Wow - some Repug candidate must be here today". Then I saw the the vehicle they were escorting. It was a hearse, with a Charleston fire truck following close behind. I realized that one of the fallen firefighters was being transported to a funeral home, and I cried for the firefighters and their families.

[Tyler Durden]

8. That much courage wasted on a furniture store. Boggles the mind. n/t

[China_cat]

9. Might boggle your mind

but the area right behind and to either side of that business is residential. Tightly packed residential. Over 100 families had to be evacuated just in case it went further.

Not to mention that the store wasn't empty. There were employees in there. I suppose trying to save them was a waste, too.

Update on that...2 homes were also destroyed by the fire and there was serious concern over the gas station 2 doors down.

[Tyler Durden]

11. Didn't know there were employees in there....

Why assume someone else is an asshole? I've tried not to do that lately, and my blood pressure stays much lower.

All things being equal, I'd rather see destroyed property than any dead people, fireman or civilian.

[China_cat]

14. Because of your assumption that the business

was free-standing, with nothing and nobody else in danger from the fire, therefore their efforts and lives were 'wasted'. They're now saying 3 homes totally destroyed and several others seriously damaged. And if the fire had reached the gas station, there'd be a lot more than 9 dead right now, not to mention that the fire would probably still be burning and taking out close to a 1/3 of the West Ashley area of Charleston.

The idea that fighting the store fire was a 'waste' is what's so distasteful about your comment. What you be saying if they'd let it go and the death toll was closer to what it was on 9/11?

[Tyler Durden]

18. Geez, What's up here?

I was mourning the possibility that firefighters were hurt for the sake of furniture. You've corrected my assumptions. And I apologized. Did I say anything that necessitated this level of animosity?

I can grovel if you like, but I'd rather not.

[alteredstate]

61. At least one employee was trapped in the building

This morning a guy rescued from burning store was interviewed on a local TV station. He said he was trapped in a repair room and kept banging on the walls with a hammer, hoping to heard and be rescued. He said the roof caved in a few moments after he was carried out of the building.

There are 150 homes behind the building. One of the homes that was saved is 12 feet from the rear of the store.

[DrDan]

12. they thought one employee was still in the store

but alas not.

[China_cat]

13. Employees were gotten out safely

through a hole knocked in the back wall.

Am watching the press conference with the mayor right now. I have to say, he's being very adamant about not wanting to speculate on the cause of the fire and how the firefighters died even though the press is trying very hard to get him to say something that probably won't be known until a full investigation is made.

[slj0101]

16. That is horrible.

My heart goes out to their loved ones. :(

[tmlanders]

24. The Worcester fire knocked the city for a loop

And the firefighters left something like 15 kids without fathers. I am so sorry to hear of this fire in Charleston. There will probably be funds set up to help ensure the future of these brave firefighters' children. Can you post links once they are set up?

[krispos42]

28. I will pass that on to somebody local

I posted this story because I heard about it on the radio at midnight, but when I got home at 3am and checked out the DU there wasn't any story about it at all. I was kind of surprised about that, so I did a little research, found the story, and posted it.

I'm in Minnesota, myself.

[Marrah_G]

49. I have a brick from the worcester fire with a memorial plaque

Proceeds went to the families. Remember that you can always donate to the the Fallen Firefighters Fund.

http://www.firehero.org/

[Renew Deal]

29. This would be a tragedy in a city the size of NY

This is a catastrophe for Charleston. :cry:

[hootinholler]

30. It's Sofa King tragic.

Sorry, but, I really could not resist.

My heart does go out to the firefighters and families.

-Hoot

[KamaAina]

31. Colbert is not gonna be a happy camper

this is his home town. :(

Maybe the families could get a few cents from every pint of Americone Dream?

[Ilsa]

58. My son watches Wheel of Fortune. I think this is Vanna's hometown. n/t

[China_cat]

32. Fund for Firefighter families

has been set up.

Anone wanting to donate money to the firefighters' families can make a donation at any Bank of America location or send money to: The City of Charleston Firemen's Fund, P.O. Box 304, Charleston, SC, 29402.

[Bombero1956]

36. There will be consequences later

I have to think that there will be an investigation later into the causes and what could have been done to prevent this tragedy in the first place. Unfortunately these firefighters paid the ultimate price

* Capt. William "Billy" Hutchinson, 30 years
* Capt. Mike Benke, 29-year veteran
* Capt. Louis Mulkey, 11 1/2 years
* Engineer Mark Kelsey, 12 1/2 years
* Engineer Bradford "Brad" Baity, Nine years
* Assistant Engineer Michael French, 1 1/2 years
* Firefighter James "Earl" Drayton, 32 years
* Firefighter Brandon Thompson, Four years
* Firefighter Melven Champaign, Two years

there may not have been working sprinklers in the building which in my opinion is criminal. All too often nothing is done about inspecting and requiring installation of these very important systems until something like this happens. There is just no excuse other than greed or carelessness. Lots of questions to be answered after these men are laid to rest.

Why wasn't there a working sprinkler system in place?

What level of staffing did the responding companies have?

Was there a fire alarm system in working order and was there a delay in reporting the fire.

[China_cat]

38. Charleston is very adamant about keeping its 'historic'

flavor over safety or even legal concerns. Historic buildings do not have to be retrofitted with sprinklers. Nor do they have to be made accessible to the handicapped. That building falls into the exceptions for some strange reason or other because of its use in years past. I'd have to do some digging to give you the exact reasons.

Both our fire and police departments are seriously understaffed. When you can be paid better working at the 7/11, risking your life doesn't make much sense for the majority of people. Our equipment is also quite outdated. For this fire, we also had volunteer outfits from a 25 mile radius. They are even worse equipped than city personnel.

I don't know if you'll be able to view it without registration but here are pictures of the 9:
http://www.charleston.net/photos/galleries/2007/jun/19/brave_nine/

[Bombero1956]

40. that's the unfortunate thing about this story

Things don't change until it bites you in the ass. I firmly believe that sprinkler and fire alarm codes should be mandatory across the country. We have historical buildings in my city that have been retrofitted with sprinklers without changing their historic flavor. All that's needed is the will to do the right thing.

[alteredstate]

62. The building is not historic, but

large commercial buildings are not required by South Carolina law to retrofit fire sprinklers.

[China_cat]

63. It has a historic background

as having been one of the original Piggly Wiggly stores in the Charleston area before having closed down. For the last 16 years it has been Sofa Super Store.

But maybe the better word to have used for this area would have been 'sentimental'. There are a lot of buildings in Charleston that have 'sentimental' value before they are old enough to truly be considered historic.

Such as the California Dreaming restaurant. It was originally the county jail.

[burrowowl]

51. Mattress fires are difficult to put out

however a sprinkler system might have helped people to get out with a proper alrm system. But once the fire is hot the sprinkler sysem piping would start to collapse and be of no use.

[China_cat]

64. The reason the roof collapsed

was that the fire got so hot it melted the metal supports that held it up. One of the firemen described it as twisting like spaghetti in hot water.

[brentspeak]

37. RIP, brave firefighters

[Savannah_H]

53. reply

always sad to hear this kind of news...
on a lighter note...
Just proves that the mattresses sold at the stores DO NOT have flame retardant chemicals in them?

[uppityperson]

55. Fire retardant, not fire proof.

wry smile here though.

[Dulcinea]

57. Charleston mourns firefighters lost in store inferno

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/20/charleston.fire.ap/index.html

May all these brave firefighters rest in peace. :patriot: