Laws (and Taxes) send 'greasers' into a spin

[Up2Late]

Source: Marketplace (American Public Media)

Wednesday, June 20, 2007

Laws send 'greasers' into a spin

Tess Vigeland: One increasingly popular solution to the energy problem is using vegetable oils to fuel cars. In fact, the first diesel engine was actually designed to run on peanut oil — until folks realized petroleum was cheaper.

Today, a small but growing number of drivers are starting to convert their diesel cars to run on vegetable oil. Fueling your car with vegetable oil is different from using biodiesel, which is federally-approved and regulated. So many states are cracking down on these gasoline refuseniks. (From North Carolina Public Radio, Jessica Jones reports.)

(edit)

...Bob Texiera: They asked if they could examine the fuel in my tank. Actually they said the diesel in my tank. And my response was, "Well, you won't find any in there." And then it went sort of downhill from there.

Taxiera was breaking a number of obscure laws. First, he owed the state a $2,500 bond to run his car on vegetable oil. And he owed a thousand dollars for neglecting to pay monthly state road taxes normally levied on gasoline. Federal penalties were involved, too.

(more and the audio at link)

Read more: http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2007/06/20/PM200706207.html

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O.K., Who here DID NOT see this coming? I can almost hear the "debate" in the Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, etc. State Legislatures going on among the Republic Party members, "Why, we can have a bunch of Long-haired Hippy-freeks drivin' around our state in their grease Powered VW Buses NOT PAYING TAXES! We better pass a LAW!!!

[Jed Dilligan]

1. The greedy corrupt WORMS who pose as our lawmakers

deserve an eternity of torture in the blackest and most sodomitical pits of Hades.

[tritsofme]

2. Gas taxes pay to keep up the roads.

If you are going this extra mile I agree there should be some sort of tax break or incentive, but you need to be responsible for the wear and tear your vehicle contributes some how.

[Richard Steele]

3. Then we need a BETTER way to fund the roads, that's all.

Of course everyone who uses the roads needs to pay their fair share.

But we sure as hell need to be doing everything we can to stop
using petroleum. We should be SUBSIDIZING people like this, not
making them go through extra hassles.

I favor a MILEAGE tax. Every vehicle in every State has to be
inspected once a year anyway- it would be little extra effort to
simply check the odometer and assess a tax for miles driven.

[karlrschneider]

6. That's problematic. Why should a Honda driver have to pay the same as

a Hummer motorist...there's a several thousand pound difference and a similar variation on how much wear and tear they inflict on the roads. And not all states have inspections. We dumped ours 6 years ago.

[Richard Steele]

8. Certainly, some equitable formula should be applied- perhaps by vehicle weight?

I was NOT aware, however, that there were any States
that didn't require yearly inspection.

That could, indeed, be problematic.

[seriousstan]

9. Ohio, never had them.

[Richard Steele]

10. Y'know, I've worked in Ohio...

Back when I was doing power line construction, we built some
transmission lines for a coal company in the rural eastern
part of the State.

Observing some of the vehicles on the road, it struck me
that the STANDARDS must be much lower there,
but it never even crossed my mind that they might have
no "standards" whatsoever.

I learn something new everyday at DU, that's for sure!

[karlrschneider]

12. Our license plates (tags) are priced according to weight

but there's no mileage involved. There have been proposals (not here in the state but in the US) to upload odometer readings to a big brother computer via satellite. I can see the rationale for doing that but I damn sure don't want it implemented! As with many things, the solution is worse than the problem.
edit to add: As far as I can tell, there hasn't been any noticeable increase in accidents that can be attributed to the cessation of annual inspections. We Okies got it cancelled because a lot of us thought it was a waste of time and money.

[Richard Steele]

14. IMHO, the reason the tax is applied to every gallon of fuel...

...isn't simply "convenience", it's because it keeps AWARENESS
of the tax at a minimum.

Very few of us actually know just how much tax we pay every year;
we pay it in increments at the pump and the TOTAL never cro$$es our mind.

If we all received a "lump sum" bill for the total amount every year,
I think that would do a hell of a lot to get us all thinking of
ways to minimize our fuel usage. Enforcing the tax in that manner
would do more to reduce petroleum usage than all the Al Gore movies
ever made.

(And I agree with your actual real-world EXPERIENCE: "State Inspections"
don't do a damn thing to keep the roads safer. Statistics show that
alcohol, speeding, and cell phones cause more fatal accidents than
poorly-maintained vehicles ever do, or ever could.)

[karlrschneider]

15. I haven't checked lately but taxes on gas have been around 50 cents a gallon

for years here. I've often thought how odd it is that sales tax has always been pre-computed for gasoline, I have no idea why that is and I can't think of any other commodity that's sold in that manner.

[Tesha]

17. Perhaps the REASON that vehicle maintenance failures don't factor into crashes...

> (And I agree with your actual real-world EXPERIENCE: "State Inspections"
> don't do a damn thing to keep the roads safer. Statistics show that
> alcohol, speeding, and cell phones cause more fatal accidents than
> poorly-maintained vehicles ever do, or ever could.)

Perhaps the *REASON* that vehicle maintenance failures don't
factor into crashes very often is that there *ARE* minimum
standards and they *ARE* enforced by inspection programs?

Tesha

[sendero]

19. They don't...

... most road taxes come in the form of fuel taxes.

That said, I think most reasonable people could agree that there is enough of a social/environment benefit to make some reasonable accomodation to those trying to help with our oil dependence.

[wtmusic]

22. Ironically, driving battery electrics is harder on the road

than low-MPG cars powered by ICEs, because they weigh about 1/3 more.

I don't know what the answer is. Put a road tax on electricity? :silly:

If you take into account the environmental benefits of driving an electric car, it's probably a wash.

[pokercat999]

18. Sorry but some states do not have "inspection"

FL and SC come to mind.

[KansDem]

4. "...to be responsible for the wear and tear your vehicle contributes some how"

How about not using finite fossil fuel and propagating all the problems associated with it?

[karlrschneider]

7. That's an admirable goal but it has nothing to do with maintaining roads

which would be impacted the same if your car used cat piss for fuel.

[KansDem]

11. True, but at least you wouldn't be expediting man's demise...

And the $$$ for road repair could come out of another budget, like the $11 million an hour for the war in Iraq that's supposed to get us that finite fossil fuel to power our cars and trucks so we can buy gasoline and pay a tax that will go to road repair...

True independence from foreign oil would make it unnecessary for war budgets. Stop the need for invading oil-rich countries and we'll have plenty of $$$ for road maintenence...

[karlrschneider]

13. Oh, I absolutely agree with you in principle, but even if someone built a water fueled car

we would still need enormous glugs of petroleum to make plastics.

[Chemical Bill]

20. Everything that can be done with petroleum...

can be done with plant oils. Plant oils are more expensive at the moment. Of course, that doesn't include the money for oil wars, Exxon Valdez type spills, etc. Plants such as soybean have no hope of replacing petroleum, but certain algae species are promising for high (hugh!) outputs.

http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html

Bill

[Javaman]

21. road repair is part of the vicious oil cycle...

as we fight wars for oil the price goes up, as the price goes up, the price of asphalt goes up, if the price of asphalt goes up. Town, city and state taxes to repave and repair the roads go up, so they raise the tax (eventually) on the price of gas to pay for those repairs...

You want to know what the future of driving is going to be? google the price of asphalt.

It's not what you drive it's what you drive on that makes all the difference. Cars get the gas mileage they do (good or bad) mostly because we have relatively good roads. Once the roads start to decline in earnest, gas mpg goes down, costs go up and we can fill in the rest.

And so it goes.

[wtmusic]

5. Monthly state road taxes?

That's absurd. What if you seldom drive your car? What if you drive it all the time?

The petrolobby has been working overtime.

[Up2Late]

16. Exactly what I was thinking, I only use my car about once a week to go...

...to the Grocery Store and visit my Parents, so I guess my portion of the "Monthly Road Tax" would be higher than most.:grr:

Well, I guess the price of Metro Bus tickets will be going up again to make up for all those lost monthly taxes. :sarcasm:

[Lance_Boyle]

23. This NPR interview continued with a *REPUBLICAN* NC state rep

who uses waste grease from the capitol cafeteria to power his diesel vehicle - he did not know about the bond, and is fairly certain he is running afoul of the law as well. And he's introducing legislation to right the situation, by rewarding those who choose alternative fuels instead of penalizing them. Sometimes, even in NC, the other side of the aisle does something right.

[Up2Late]

24. Slight correction, this is from APM not NPR. They are both Public Radio but not the same...

...company or people.

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