Blair tells Pope: Now I'm ready to become a Catholic

[Newsjock]

Source: The Observer

Tony Blair yesterday used his last official foreign engagement before leaving office to tell Pope Benedict he wanted to become a Roman Catholic, a Vatican source said last night.

But, in talks lasting more than half an hour, the outgoing Prime Minister was left in no doubt that the Pope took a dim view of his record in office. A statement issued afterwards by the Vatican said there had been a 'frank exchange of views'.

Read more: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,,2110067,00.html

[Newsjock]

1. Directly out of "The Trial of Tony Blair"

http://www.aworldtowin.net/reviews/Blairtrial.html

... Once out of the public eye and with the prospect of a war crimes trial on the horizon, he goes through a breakdown. Over the course of the next few weeks in his new residence and in his huge, rambling office space where he is engaged in dictating his memoirs, we witness him experiencing extremely disturbing hallucinations, the stress of which causes the return of his heart problem, for which he is treated, humiliatingly, in a dirty, short-staffed, NHS hospital. He seeks consolation in religion and applies for admittance to the Catholic Church - it is safe for him to do that now since he no longer has "focus groups to consider" as he explains to Cherie.

[AzDar]

2. ....

:wow:

[tomreedtoon]

16. When is that going to be made available on DVD?

I saw it. I didn't get to record it. It was a remarkable fictional movie, especially considering that no network in the US would make or air anything similar about George Bush while he was in office.

I did like the idea, promoted in the movie, that Hillary Clinton was the US President. (Bush was said to be in rehab.) She pulled off a dirty-tricks scheme to send Blair to trial in the Hague, taking the blame for the Iraq War, rather than having the United States...or her...put on trial for it. I think the British may see Mrs. Clinton with sharper eyes than most of us do.

[roguevalley]

62. check bbcamerica.com and their store. it might be noted there.

[SemperEadem]

34. I guess Britain is worth a mass....

[HereSince1628]

3. I'm guessing he has a huge need for absolution

Is leaving a guy out in the woods bleeding from his wrist a cardinal or veneal sin?

[dflprincess]

5. I would guess it's a mortal sin

meaning if he dies without repenting he will go to hell, he will go directly to hell, he will not pass go.

However, as I've pointed out before with the subject of the Catholic church and absolution has come up. When I was being prepared for First Confession, the nun did stress that it does no good to confess to sins if one is not truly repentent. She said we might fool the priest into giving absolution, but you can't fool God. And confessing when you don't mean it, makes a mockery of the sacrament and God will add that to your list of sins. She also made the mistake of pointing out that, when one is truly sorry, God will forgive us our sins without confession. Which, heretic that I was even at 7, made me wonder why we had to bother with confession at all. I'm sure it served more of a purpose back in the days before therapists because it did give people someone to talk to if they were being tormented by somthing they had done.

[Ilsa]

12. Sometimes I suspect that confession and penance

are about making certain the balance of pain to others and pain to self is directed so that the cosmos' pain to the sinner doesn't accidentally afflict others. Maybe they were trying to avoid collateral damage from kharma with penance.

Hell. WHat do I know?

[rodeodance]

9. The Catholic God is a forgiving God, not a God of vengence.

[IndianaGreen]

14. One must atone before one is forgiven

Blair wants his cake and eat it too.

[Joe Chi Minh]

47. You mean you don't believe in hell or the devil? No accountability at all?

Don't make the mistake of confusing the campaign with the vote!

[IndianaGreen]

15. I never bought the Dr. Kelly "suicide" story

He was liquidated, perhaps under direct orders of Blair.

[aquart]

19. Did anyone buy that transparent crap?

[Joe Chi Minh]

48. I've never seen him look as guilty and shattered.

[aquart]

18. It's murder and the Old Testament frowns on it.

[Morgana LaFey]

44. You're forgetting about all the U.S. and British dead in Iraq

that he helped kill, along with hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens, aren't you?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

4. I thought he was into some new age crystal worshiping shit,

[Warpy]

6. He was a seminary student before he changed course

and ended up in politics.

I keep telling folks he's into the same sort of charismatic, bornagain nonsense that Stupid is.

I agree with the above, he's seeking absolution and penance from the pope.

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. No, nothing to do with a seminary - he was always a law student

Blair left Fettes with three A levels and a place at St John's College, Oxford, to study law.
...
Before taking up his place at Oxford, he headed for London, where he spent a carefree year "managing" student rock bands and putting on gigs and discos with his friend Alan Collenette.
...
But Blair was also developing a more thoughtful side. He began to talk about left wing politics and, unusually for the times, became increasingly serious about his Christian faith, taking confirmation classes.
...
In his first year at the university, he befriended an Australian priest, Peter Thompson, with whom he would debate social issues and theology late into the night. Blair later credited Thompson with awakening in him an interest in Christian socialism, and a desire for social change.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6506365.stm

Perhaps you're thinking of Stalin? An easy mistake, I know. :evilgrin:

[Warpy]

33. An early biography said he'd been a seminary student

for a short time. I guess you can't trust anything you read online.

[Wilms]

7. The Church of Nativity won't let him in.

Bush and Blair banned from Church of the Nativity

-1/4/2003

George Bush and Tony Blair have been barred from Bethlehemís the Church of the Nativity reports the Palestine Chronicle.

A spokesman of the Orthodox Church in the Holy Land, archimandrite Attallah Hanna declared that U.S. President George Bush, his Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Tony Blair and Foreign Secretary Jack Straw have all been banned from visiting the traditional birth place of Christ in Bethlehem.

Both Tony Blair and Jack Straw profess a Christian faith and are members of the Christian Socialist Movement.

This decision was apparently taken to express the opposition of the Palestinian Christians to the U.S. and UK invasion on Iraq.

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_2003_04_bush_blair_ban.shtml

[rodeodance]

10. whow.

[disndat]

11. Religiom is the last

refuge of scoundrels, or phonies like Blair and Bush.

[marshall]

37. I didn't realize they checked ID

I went to the Church of the Nativity back in the 80s and just walked in. They didn't ID me or anything. I guess security has gotten tighter everywhere.

[tblue37]

38. They would probably recognize Bush or Blair on sight, though. (eom)

[Wilms]

46. A close eye is kept out for them, though they almost snuck in by wearing a disguises.

[Joe Chi Minh]

49. Is it possible you might not be as readily recognised by them?

[InkAddict]

55. But, but, didn't I see just * on The Next Best Thing

just before or after Elvis the younger. If Osama and Saddam has/had body doubles, what makes anybody think the Cowboy and his trusty Standard Poodle don't have them too.

[Joe Chi Minh]

59. If they were good enough doubles, doubtless they'd be sent packing.

[rurallib]

8. This the same catholic church that

- wouldn't let Kerry have communion
- accepts Guiliani despite his multiple marriages and fucking around
- has an ex-Nazi as pope
- now recruits a man who helped start an invasion that has killed or maimed or left homeless millions?
- keeps telling 3rd worlders to keep having as many kids as they can?

[DemBones DemBones]

20. Lying is a sin. Perhaps you are unaware

that you are propagating lies but you are.

[AngryOldDem]

41. Let's debunk this

And keep in mind I do not necessarily sit in the Church's cheering section, nor do I consider myself an apologist for it.

1. Some bishops have said that had Kerry come to their churches for Communion, he would not have received. Although some bishops would like an across-the-board policy banning pro-choice Catholic politicians from Communion, no such directive exists today.

2. Guiliani has been widely criticized by the bishops mainly for his pro-choice stand. As for the other two, many other Catholics engage in such behavior and if they so want it, they can go to the Church and get absolution. The Church would not deny absolution to them, if they were genuinely sincere in wanting it.

3. Ratzinger belonged to Hitler Youth, a group which, if memory serves, had **required** membership of all German youth during that time.

4. The Church "recruits" no one. Blair has been talking about this for several years now, and again, if I recall correctly, Cheri has been a major influence in his wanting to convert. My problem with this is his grandstanding about doing so, especially since he has been a partner in crime with Bush in waging a war that is -- by all measures -- in direct contradiction with the Church's Just War theory. But that is between Blair and the Pope, and, ultimately, God.

5. I agree that the Church's stance on birth control is harmful, on many counts. But it does not tell the Third World to have "as many kids as they can." The Church has a wide and effective network of international charities that do much to alleviate poverty across the world. Believe it or not.

[InkAddict]

56. and hides pedofiles n/t

[IndianaGreen]

13. There is nothing in English law to prevent a Catholic from being Prime Minister

If Blair thinks he can bullshit God as he has everyone else, he has something else coming.

Blair remains unrepentant about his criminal war in Iraq and his cozy relationship with the war criminal Bush. Let's hear the poodle repent!

[Alexander]

21. No, but since James II Catholics haven't been welcome in Britain's highest offices.

Hence the change now, instead of in 1996.

I still don't believe it's sincere. If there is a hell, I hope it's the kind of place that would accept people like Tony Blair.

[LeftishBrit]

43. No - and I think nowadays, it wouldn't be a problem as such

When the Northern Ireland 'troubles' were still raging, it would have been a bit more politically difficult for a Catholic to become PM; but I don't think it would be a problem now.

However, it's one thing for a Catholic to become PM, and another for a PM to become a Catholic. I think that open conversion - any sort of conversion - by a sitting PM would not go down that well. Partly because of the still extant rivalries between different religions, and partly because PMs simply are expected to be a bit don't-ask-don't-tell about their religious practices. As one of Blair's advisors once said, "We don't do God".

Everyone knew Blair had essentially become a Catholic some time ago, but announcing a conversion wouldn't seem appropriate here.

As far as repenting - he isn't capable of it!

[QC]

17. They are welcome to him. n/t

[Alexander]

22. Blair was already a Catholic in all but name.

His wife and kids are Catholic, he attended Catholic mass, and did his best to fudge the issue on what religion he was - Anglican or Catholic.

No surprise to me.

I don't think he's doing this out of the goodness or sincerity of his heart.

[Joe Chi Minh]

50. That's an oxymoron. A miss is as good as a mile. You're either

a baptised Catholic or not.

It's not the same as qualifying as a child of light, a sheep rather than a goat, alluded to by Jesus in his account of the Last Judgment in Matthew. On that basis, he would seem to have zero chance, along with many others grandees, sacred and secular, in the church's history.

[Alexander]

57. Whatever. I don't find this surprising and neither should you.

Blair was already much friendlier to Catholics than he was to Anglicans.

If you're shocked, you haven't been paying attention.

[Joe Chi Minh]

58. If I knew what you were talking about I'd respond. But I don't recall

expressing any surprise about Bliar's desire for acceptance into the Roman Catholic church. It's you who need to sharpen your wits.

"Whatever", indeed! That, as your initial response, doesn't give much cause for optimism. Wake up Christmas.

[Hardrada]

23. But when the devil was well

The devil a monk was he!

[ShortnFiery]

24. I wonder if Blair's been inducted into Opus Dei yet?

:wow: :evilgrin: :scared: :nuke:

http://www.mond.at/opus.dei/opus.dei.uo.faq.html#bad

[muriel_volestrangler]

29. No, that's Ruth Kelly, ex-Education Secretary

and now Community and Local Government secretary.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4190115.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4976414.stm

[ShortnFiery]

42. True, but they're recruiting Powerful World Leaders into their fold all of the time...

And Blair, with his unyielding SACRIFICE (his reputation, his country's reputation and his country's soldiers) to Dear Leader and all things Imperial, would make an IMO, and ideal addition to their ranks. :evilgrin: :scared:

[Joe Chi Minh]

52. He'd have looked good in the uniform of the 250th (Blue) Division

of the Wermacht fighting in Russia in WWII, the Spanish contingent of which, I believe, was mostly composed of Opus Dei characters. Lovely dagger on the wall of their chapel, too, I once read. Esprit de Corps and all that, you know. And his grandparents Communist trade union leaders too!

[Hieronymus]

25. Does Blair think he can get absolution for war crimes that way?

[Orsino]

32. "Ego te absolvo."

He not only can; he will.

Ugh.

[Hieronymus]

26. Remember Lee Atwater, Rove's tutor in evil, converted to Catholicism ..

and begged forgiveness from those he'd harmed, as he lay dying of cancer.

[WritersBlock]

27. The only thing I care about here is who paid for his travel from Brussels to Rome.

If he wanted to go talk to someone about his religion, I hope he did it on his own five pence.

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. a 'franco confronto' - ie blood on the carpet

During a 25-minute face-to-face audience in the Pontiff's private apartments, Pope Benedict XVI tackled Mr Blair on the continuing crisis in Iraq and the Middle East.

Italian news agency reports said Pope Benedict also made direct criticism of New Labour laws allowing greater stem cell research on human embryos, easy access to abortion, same-sex marriages, and adoption by gay couples.
...
After the meeting, the Pope's office issued a strongly worded statement, saying the two men had a 'frank discussion on the international situation, in particular the delicate question of the Middle East conflict'.

The actual wording of the communique contained the Italian phrase 'franco confronto', literally translated as 'frank confrontation' - inflammatory language seen as highly unusual in Rome.

The statement continued: "At the end, after an exchange of opinions on several laws recently passed by Parliament in Britain, he wished the Honourable Anthony Blair best wishes with regard to the fact he is leaving his position as Prime Minister."
...
Previously, meetings with world leaders including President Bush have been described as 'warm and cordial', despite the Vatican's opposition to many of his policies and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23401700-details/Pope:%20Miracles%20hard%20to%20come%20by%20in%20Britain/article.do

This is, of course, the annoying thing - Blair's liberal social policies which actually get support on DU are the ones which get the meeting characterised as an argument, while Bush gets away with 'warm and cordial', despite being at least as guilty as Blair over Iraq.

[SemperEadem]

35. I'm shocked he didn't issue a bull absolving anyone who would

"drag him from his office and murder him. Anyone who did this not only did not sin, but gained merit in the eyes of God". I'm quite sure the protestant middle finger flies at the pope now like it did in 1559.

Pope Benedict also made direct criticism of New Labour laws allowing greater stem cell research on human embryos, easy access to abortion, same-sex marriages, and adoption by gay couples.

Yet, the bishop of Rome has nothing to say about the predatory child sexual abusers he protects.

[Joe Chi Minh]

53. Bush wasn't publicly trying to ingratiate himself into the Catholic Church.

The Pope had to send an unambiguous message.

[Ian David]

31. Blair just needs a new best friend to replace Bush. n/t

[onehandle]

36. You don't have to go to the Pope to become Catholic.

You pick a church. Take a few classes. And you're Catholic.

This self-serving poodle must have quite an ego to announce his faith in this outrageous way.

[ShortnFiery]

39. No, I went through good old R.C.I.A. classes :-)

Thank goodness I had a Franciscan Priest as my guide OR I would have never made it. :blush:

The past couple of weeks I have not been able to go to Mass, i.e., so conflicted. I feel another "crisis of faith" coming over me. BTW, it's bizarre (and kind of humorous) that The Pope's latest, IMO arrogant "Ten Commandments of Driving" was seemingly the straw that broke the camel's back. :shrug:

[GeorgeGist]

40. Tony will you ever stop ...

playing poodle?

[Joe Chi Minh]

45. "franco confronto" is particularly inflammatory, as it means what it sounds like,

"frank confrontation". "confrontation" is what we called our war in Borneo.

Here is fuller coverage in the UK Mail On Sunday:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=463993&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

You can see that the writers of the article are a little confused in that, on the basis of one or two Church spokemen, they seem to interpret the Blair's desire to be accepted into the Church, as an indication of the high probabilty of his being accepted! Even journalists could not be crass enough to believe that a material gift they offered, however pious its subject and however closely related to the theme of conversion, could signify a genuine conversion on Blair's part.

I've been reading another article today, in which, having rejected body armour when visiting Iraq, Blair is quoted as saying that he felt safer in Iraq than in the company of youngsters in this country. (If that is not an indictment of his misgoverment over such a long period of time, I don't know what could be?) He's been doing all sorts of small humane acts recently, and I said to my wife that he's terrified now he's leavng office, by the hatred his single-minded corporatism has engendered among the people, who have seen even the hospitals taken over by partisan spivs. It was heartening to read that the company that's been charging patients' relatives and friends even to phone them, to park their car, and the patients to watch television from their beds, is in severe financial difficulties. I hope it's not too much to hope for that they go down the tubes in a big way.

[Neshanic]

51. And the biggest drama queen award for 2007 ....envelope please.

It's Tony! Oh Tony, what a magnificent end to your career by becoming Catholic. Although you may not have garnered this award if you became a Scientologist, but you gave up the perks that they offer. Travolta jet rides with kisses, Tomcat diatribes at his manse; oh the things you could of seen, the things you could of done.

This will be seen a the pinnacle of your time spent as a whimpering shaking Chihuahua on the lap of our Magical Monkey King.

[Nikki Stone1]

60. LOL!!

:D

[InkAddict]

54. Give me that foxhole religion, that foxhole religion, that foxhole

religion -- it's good enough for me! Well, all right - does he think last rites will save his sorry soul?

[shenmue]

61. Wow

:o

Huh!