Oil firms reject Venezuela deal

[CHIMO]

Source: Source: Al Jazeera and agencies

Two major oil companies – Exxon Mobil and ConocoPhillips – have rejected a deal to continue operations in Venezuela's oil-rich Orinoco belt with a reduced stake.

They refused to give up part of their operations to Venezuela's state oil company, PDVSA as part of President Hugo Chavez's nationalisation drive.

PDVSA plans to take at least a 60 per cent share in four heavy-crude upgrading projects operated by transnational companies worth over $30bn, a big jump from its current 40 per cent stake.

The president has used of billions of dollars in oil revenues to finance social programmes.


Read more: http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/562CFBB6-9217-4C34-AF77-65ABBCE7F31A.htm

---

Looks like the lines are being drawn.

[fazoolius_2006]

1. About time

I wish all of those companies would pack up and head out. They are the ones with the expertise and if they left, Chavez would be up the creek. What a joke it is to nationalize the oil industry there. The amount of expertise that the international oil companies bring is invaluable.

Pull out and stick it to him.

[Jim Sagle]

2. Lee Raymond, is that you?

[EFerrari]

24. Dick? Are you out of the bunker today? n/t

[Jim Sagle]

29. Your reply makes no sense in this context.

[EFerrari]

32. No, it doesn't. It was misplaced.: Sorry!

:rofl:

[Jim Sagle]

33. Thank you!

I suspect we disagree on some issues, but still, I thought that was a tad harsh. Glad to know it was meant for someone else.
:toast:

[EFerrari]

34. Disagreement is cool. Misplacing posts should be harshly punished!

:blush:

[ryanmuegge]

35. Is that picture doctored?

If not, that boy needs to invest in a treadmill.

[Jim Sagle]

39. I don't believe it is.

[originalpckelly]

4. I'm not too fond of Chavez, well, that's putting it mildly...

but Exxon Mobil and ConocoPhillips can go Cheney themselves.

[Amonester]

10. They gave death to thousands of innocent Iraqis already ...

while catapulting they wanted to give them liberty.

Besides, Raymond would never accept to retire with $300 millions instead of $400 millions. What would the other have-mores in his circle think of him? Oooooh, that poor pig....

[endarkenment]

18. yeah just look at norway, what a disaster nationalization was there.

Oh wait, it worked out just fine and everyone benefited, even, horrors, the people of Norway.

[bvar22]

20. Yhe Russians & the Chinese will be more than HAPPY to help Chavez!

They have been lusting to get their haqnds on oil in the Western hemisphere, and 40% is a GREAT price.

NOW, Chavez has us (US consumers) by the short hairs. He need NOTHING from us, so he is free to sell ALL his oil toother markets.

US expertese???!!!! Maybe in the 1950's.
Believe me, Chavez does NOT NEED the US to drill, produce, OR refine Venezuela's oil.
The US consumer NEEDS Chavez.

If Chavez now decides to start giving a higher percentage (or ALL) of Venezuela's Oil to other markets, we (the US Consumer) are REALLY, REALLY fucked.

The CEOS of the Exxon, Shell, etc will be fine. They will simply RAISE the price at the pumps. No skin off their noses, and after all, 40% isn't enough profit for them.

This is NOT good for the US.
This is good ONLY for China, Russia, Chavez, and the CEOS of BIG OIL.
YOU will pay MORE for gas....a lot more.

[KansDem]

21. I really don't think Chavez will have problems filling the vacancies...

...left by pouting, disgruntled Exxon/Conoco suits as they exit the country. Chavez has a whole world of talent to call on.

As for nationalizing the oil industry, perhaps Chavez is hoping to avoid the pitfalls of having private enterprise run it. It might be a matter of national security for him. Afterall, look at how well private enterprise has worked for the Iraqi oil industry.

Sorry, but it appears Exxon and Conoco will just have to buy the oil now....

[movonne]

3. China might pickup the slack...

[David__77]

5. Their loss.

There are other multinational firms that would be perfectly willing to make a profit with a reduced stake.

[roamer65]

28. Exactly. I'm sure Chavez knew they'd turn it down.

He'll just award the stakes to another non-American multinational.

[daleo]

6. What do they know?

How did this go down in Iraq before the invasion?

[SayWhatYo]

7. I usually avoid Venezuela topics because I don't want to be killed, but I have some non-death

causing questions.... Now if these companies leave what would be affect on Venezuela's oil production? Would the plants stay or would new ones need to be constructed? Who owns the plants? Are the engineers foreign or local? If foreign, does Venezuala have enough engineers of their own to completely replace them?(although I would assume if they didn't then they could find them somewhere else, aye?)What if the oil companies "sabotage" the equipment? If the oil companies built those, would Venezuala have any action it could take? I ask because I'm curious how much weight the oil companies hold in this situation...

[Amonester]

8. The oil oligarchies R all BIG bu$che/chainy contributors ...

so it's quite easy to predict we will soon find ourselves catapulted with lies and idiocies like:

"our boys 'n girls in the National Guard will be greeted as liberators by all Venezuelians they will bring democracy to with their sacrifice" ...

Really, much too easy to predict.

[SayWhatYo]

9. I don't think that will happen...

not because I don't think this admin would like to, but rather because I don't think the American people would allow for such things. Not to mention the fact that I don't think the US military would be able to do such a thing... Then again, you never know, aye?

Although, I could imagine the Chavez opposition getting even more funding than they may have before.

[Amonester]

11. Never under-estimate the power of imperial-capitalists who ...

put themselves above the law and nobody stops them.

Like these war criminals care about what the American people would allow, or not!

[Judi Lynn]

12. They'll just pour more money into molding public perception, the way they have for ages,

like Reagan's Cuban "exile" head of the Office of Public Diplomacy in the State Department, (next, recess-appointed by _Bush) Otto Reich, who got in trouble with Congress for taking the taxpayers' hard earned money to use to create lies to feed back to us through planting bogus news in newspapers, tv news networks, bogus letters to the editors in newspapers, on and on and on.

That piece of excrement even spent some of his time intimidating members of the press personally, and trying to smear their reputations when he thought they were too threatening to his spin, accusing them of consorting with straight and gay prostitutes when they were covering Iran-Contra in Latin America. Smooth, wasn't that?

From an article written a couple of days after the _Bush-supported coup in Venezuela, April, 2002:

~snip~
....President Bush used the tricky recess appointment procedure to bypass potential hostile and damaging questioning by Democrats on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The Senators had some interesting examples of Mr. Reich's malfeasance to ask him about when he was the director of the State Department's Office of Public Diplomacy(OPD).

On September 30, 1987 a Republican appointed comptroller general of the U.S. found that Reich had done things as director of the OPD that were "prohibited, covert propaganda activities, "beyond the range of acceptable agency public information activities...". The same report said Mr. Reich's operation violated "a restriction on the State Department's annual appropriations prohibiting the use of federal funds for publicity or propaganda purposes not authorized by Congress." Reich used the covert propaganda to demonize the democratically elected Sandinista government of Nicaragua and establish the Contras as fearless freedom fighters. The purpose was to make the U.S. public afraid enough of the Sandinistas to get Congress to fund the Contras directly. The Boland Amendment was passed by Congress in 1982 that prohibited U.S. funds from being used to overthrow the Nicaraguan government. Meanwhile, the Contras were being illegally armed by the Reagan administration via the Iran-Contra arms deal.

On the night of Reagan's re-election in 1984, Reich's office put out the news that "intelligence sources"revealed that Soviet MIG fighter jets were arriving in Nicaragua and Andrea Mitchell interrupted election night coverage on NBC to give the phony report. This resembles the Joseph Goebbel's fabrication that Polish troops had attacked German soldiers to give the Third Reich an excuse to launch the Nazi blitzkrieg into Poland to begin World War II in 1939. Other Reich prevarications given to media sources included: Nicaragua had been given chemical weapons by the Soviets, according to the Miami Herald; and leaders of the Sandinistas were involved in drug trafficking, according to Newsweek magazine.

In Latin American countries the United States has a history of doing business and siding with wealthy oligarchies of business, professional and military elites who tend to be lighter skinned people of European descent against the poor and working class composed mainly of darker skinned, indigenous people and those of African descent. The second Bush administration appears to be adhering to this tradition with gusto. With Otto Reich churning out the hate and fear, it is a safe bet to predict that President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela will be increasingly presented as the devil incarnate and his government as evil, anti-American terrorists. Mr. Reich will dish out the poisonous propaganda to every news source that covers the Bush administration's Latin American policy. Joseph Goebbels would be proud.
(snip/...)

http://www.counterpunch.org/turnip0418.html

[roody]

23. I'm sure they (Cheney's office anyway)

can find some "Venezuelans"to fly airliners into buildings full of people in the US.

[KDLarsen]

13. And that answered the question.. how? NT

[1932]

16. A lot of those questions are answered in Nick Kozloff's book on Chavez

http://www.amazon.com/Hugo-Chavez-Politics-Challenge-U-S/dp/1403973156

When there was an oil management strike in Venezuela, it hurt them, but they were able to get the army and a lot of retired workers together to put the industry back on line.

One of their problems, however, was that the previous neoliberal government had sold the IT infrastructure system for PDVSA to a US company with a defense-industry connection, and they believe that system was used to sabotage PDVSA. I think they ended up uprooting that IT system, and now they have one that, well, is Venezuelan, rather than American.

[endarkenment]

19. The process is a negotiation in advance of an expropriation.

Eventually Venezuela will give up on the negotiation part and simply take 60% control over Exxon and Phillips assets. If these companies choose to walk away Venezuela will find other experienced organizations to help them run these enterprises. Why Exxon and Phillips would walk away from their remaining 40% share in some the planet's best remaining oilfields is an issue that their shareholders might want to take up with them.

"What if the oil companies "sabotage" the equipment?" then I would expect that those responsible will be arrested, charged, tried, and punished for crimes committed. You do understand that this is an entirely legal process, quite similar to our own process for expropriation by emminent domain, right?

[w4rma]

14. Exxon and Phillips are easily replaceable. It isn't hard to find someone else to do the job. (nt)

[WHAT]

37. "Insourcing"?...

I like it :)

[Maribelle]

15. Exxon Mobil and ConocoPhillips can thank the corruption of the prior government

The nationalization of Venezuelan oil was in full swing prior to Chavez, however the money the government received from Exxon Mobil and their ilk went into their personal pockets, and Exxon Mobile did not seem to mind a bit.

The remarkable popularity of Chavez is ONLY due to the oil corruption of the prior administration and the filthy poverty literally dripping off the mountainsides these corrupt thugs fostered with the help of Exxon Mobil.

The first time I visited Venezuela, before Chavez, it was the richest country in South America. Yet the abject poverty was the worst of any Latin American country. While Venezuelans paid homage to Bolivar, even naming their currency after him, I am positive that had Bolivar been alive just prior to Chavez being elected, he would have fallen to his knees in anguish.

http://bangordailynews.com/news/t/viewpoints.aspx?articleid=150469&zoneid=35

Our country should stay neutral as well. We should neither support nor attack Chavez, but allow the process in Venezuela to work itself out. Any pressure against Chavez will encourage him to become more militant, to further centralize power, to identify domestic opponents with the United States, and to militarize in self-defense. American pressure is on, and these things are beginning to happen: There is a Draconian press law (so far unenforced), and last year, Venezuela bought 100,000 AK-47s from Russia.

[farmbo]

17. Why not leave Venezuela...By September they'll have Iraq's oilfields

The pending Iraqi "hydrocarbon law"-- the one "benchmark" that everyone, Cheney, Bush, Repubs and Democrats, have demanded-- is essentially a giveaway to international oil companies. Exxon and Conoco will have their hands full skimming off guaranteed profits (yes, you heard right...their profits will be guaranteed by the Iraqi people) from Iraq's oil reserves, the world's second-largest.

http://www.iraqrevenuewatch.org/

[yurbud]

22. this is why we are so worried about free speech in Venezuela

God forbid they keep more of their oil income.

[EFerrari]

25. Speaking of which, I just watched my first rightwing POS show on LinkTv

EVER -- and guess what the topic was? It was a segment of the new show, "Latin Pulse" and it was on freedom of speech in Venezuela. The premise was that this terrible "suppression" of the press could be sweeping Latin America!

Wait -- isn't that exactly backward?

They spent a little time on Mexico where journalists ARE being killed and none on Colombia.

The propaganda against Chavez has been turned up a notch when progressive, independent outlets like Link can air something like that so unself-consciously. Hell, I started getting a clue about Venezuela because Link airs Greg Palast's reporting on our government's manipulations there.

[yurbud]

26. that got on link TV?

[EFerrari]

27. Yes. It's a new show that I thought would be like "Mosaic"

but for Latin America. Imagine my disappointment. :(

I've emailed Link Media and intend to follow up. Here's a link to the segment. It's jawdropping.

http://www.linktv.org/video/1466

[EFerrari]

31. Someone showed me that this is the wrong link. When there's a

link to today's train wreck, I'll pm it to you. This (linked) segment was a debate. What I saw today was a hit job.

[taught_me_patience]

30. Huugo Chavez needs to pay fair market value

and if not... Conoco and Exxon will sue. This deal was not fair market value. I guarantee that oil production will decrease following this move.

[pork medley]

36. There's no such thing as fair market value

care to distinguish between value and price? :)

the oil belongs to his people, they shouldn't have to suffer for what belongs to them

[pschoeb]

38. They have to pay for infrastructure and things the companys built

I believe Venezuela is offering book value, which seems fair, in eminent domain cases in the US the value is usually determined by jury, I'm not sure the procedure in Venezuela.

My guess is since the only companies that didn't agree to the joint companies with 60% Venezuela ownership are US companies, that there are some politics involved. Also I'm guessing that Exxon and Connoco are hoping to get US taxpayer money through OPIC for some inflated value they think they should be paid.

[sanskritwarrior]

40. What do you know rats

really are the first ones off a sinking ship............

At least the oil companies were smart enough to drop Venezuela like a hot potato...........

[pschoeb]

41. Actually it's only two American firms, 4 of 6 oil companys are staying

There are other, easy ways to keep a ship clear of rats, other than sinking it, though it seems this is the preferred method of rat removal in America, even letting the rats run the ship, so they can sink it, so that we can get rid of them. Most people think a ship without rats is the best way to go, and since it is easily feasible to have a ship without rats, why would one allow rats on it?