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fightthegoodfightnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:07 AM
Original message
Poll shows many Republicans favor universal healthcare, gays in military
Source: The Hill

Poll shows many Republicans favor universal healthcare, gays in military
By Aaron Blake
June 28, 2007

A large nationwide poll of Republican voters shows that an increasing number consider themselves conservative, that about half favor universal healthcare and allowing gays in the military, and that the vast majority say spreading democracy shouldn’t be the United States’ top foreign policy goal.

The poll, conducted by GOP consultant Tony Fabrizio 10 years after he conducted a similar study, also casts some doubts on the conventional wisdom about moral-issues voters, thought to be the key constituency for President Bush in 2004. It showed that the group hasn’t grown significantly in recent years and is surprisingly willing to vote for former New York
Mayor Rudy Giuliani despite his differences with it on social and moral issues.

Read more: http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/poll-shows-many-republicans-favor-universal-healthcare-gays-in-military-2007-06-28.html



Not sure if Fabrizio is just trying to help Giuliani or what, but it's interesting none the less. (While the article is dated Thursday, it wasn't posted until yesterday.)
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. Exploding yet again the Myth of the Miracle of the Religious Bigots
Which has never been anything more than the cover story for the stolen ballots actually cast for the Democratic candidate.
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fightthegoodfightnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yea...but when will someone in the Republican Party Give Voice to This GOP Majority
Perhaps we shouldn't expect them to. Perhaps we should just invite them to the Democratic party!
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SayWhatYo Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. There are many here who would be very upset with that idea..
I've seen more than a few posts in which certain people said they would never attempt to make nice with any conservatives. I find that to be a horrible attitude, but it does exist and I'm sure there will be some who come in here and make their opinion on it known.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-01-07 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. They are welcome, UNLESS they want to drag the Democratic party...
farther to the right. In that case, they need to stay and reform their corrupt party.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. ...and this country's move to the right (wing).
Any Democrat who wants to get elected had better stay the hell out of Washington and away from Washington wonks and find out where the center really is: A majority want

An immediate and generous rise in the minimum wage

Out of Iraq

A fairer taxation system (although they disagree on what kind)

Universal healthcare with heavy, heavy regulation of any insurance companies left in the mix and of drug companies.

An end to offshoring good jobs

Enforcement of many laws on the books that have been ignored by "pro business" (translation: bribed) factions in both parties

Government that is for the people, not just for a few rich people.

Any candidate that denies this is the center and presents him/herself as friendly to business and not likely to rock the boat on fiscal policy is not going to inspire the party base, let alone anyone else. Any candidate who does not pledge to get us out of Iraq is going to end up with an election that is either lost or close enough to steal again.



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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. If this is true the Healthcare parasites are soooo fucked! K&R!
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Not if Hillary gets her way
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Good point!
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Links? Quotes? Proof?
Just a snide hit and run?
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
5. Something tells me ...
that this country is not nearly as divided as the MSM and the GOP want us to believe. I think the vast majority of Americans are reasonable people. It's the politicians that make everything black and white and that's probably because it's the extremists who control the GOP.

We've had the red vs. blue, liberal vs. conservative, Democratic vs. Republican crap rammed down our throats for so long that we all just take it for granted. The propaganda machine has created a great divide - or the appearance of a great divide - but I can't help but wonder if it's not 50/50, as they've made us believe. Perhaps it's more like 75/25 and that 25% is running the propaganda machine.

Just a thought ...
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fightthegoodfightnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:44 AM
Original message
The GOP has a Vested Interest in Keeping Everyone Afraid
It would be nice to see a candidate (say Gore) unite us in the PROMISE of this great country.
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fightthegoodfightnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Self Deleted
Edited on Sat Jun-30-07 11:45 AM by fightthegoodfightnow
Not sure how or why the same post got posted twice. I pressed the button once.....honestly. :)
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SayWhatYo Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. I agree with you, however...
Edited on Sat Jun-30-07 02:31 PM by SayWhatYo
I think you're wrong in putting the blame solely on the GOP. The fact is that "extremists" on both sides of the political spectrum have an interest in either creating or making it appear as if there is such a great divide. There is about three or four people here at DU that I put into that extremist group... Most of us are not like that, but us more "reasonable" people are typically not as loud and vocal. Also, it may very well be the case that the right wing is currently more invested in that divide, but I would never assume that just because group may be more left or similar to my beliefs, that they are somehow incapable of being schemers.
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yeah, that's true
I guess I automatically blame them because they dominate the media and their ideology gets far more exposure than the extremists on the left.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
7. Not sure how to take this
first I thought thats nice, then Ghouliani popped up and spoiled it.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
12. Well, the selfish are finally realizing what healthcare costs them
Add this with the amount of money businesses have to spend to cover their employees, and you'll see lots of conservatives accepting reality.

Medicine for money is murder, and the only ones benefitting are HMOs, insurers, some physicians and that's about it. The problem is that reactionary ideologues demand that the profit motive be the engine of society at every level, regardless how counterproductive it is.
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Manix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. ..this I find interesting..
Edited on Sat Jun-30-07 09:45 PM by Manix
<<with 41 percent of Republicans now 55 or older, compared to 28 percent in 1997.>> Seems I saw a survey awhile back that showed O'Reilly and Limbaugh's audience consists of a overwhelming majority of seniors and retired folks.
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nevergiveup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. The problem is
that seniors and retired folks vote in higher numbers than any other age group.
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Roy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
16. Unverifiable voting machines is Bush's only Key constituency
"moral-issues voters, thought to be the key constituency for President Bush in 2004."
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I completely agree with that.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-01-07 04:44 AM
Response to Original message
20. My theory is that Rove wrote the narrative for the 2004 election, for the
war profiteering news monopolies--a narrative to accompany Diebold/ES&s's vote "count"--way back around May 2004, when he conceived one of the key issue to be "gay marriage" in order to push the really important issue of the day--the torture of prisoners (which had just been revealed)--and the war itself out of the story. 63% of Americans oppose torture "under any circumstances" (NYT poll, May '04). That's a whopping big majority. The horror that they were torturing prisoners, and on a widespread basis, SHOULD HAVE been the dominant issue of the election. So a narrative had to be concocted to replace that reality.

Or he began writing it further back, during the Oct. '02 to Feb. '03 period, or just afterward. Two very important things happened in Oct. '02: the passage of the Iraq War Resolution (with about half the Democrats voting for it), and, in the same month, passage of the "Help America Vote for Bush Act" (electronic voting run on "trade secret," proprietary programming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations, with virtually no audit/recount controls--a bill that almost all of the Democrats voted for). These two bills are closely related. Around the same time (Feb. '03)--just before the invasion--all polls were showing a significant majority of Americans against the Iraq War (55-56%). It was to defeat this majority of peace-minded Americans that non-transparent electronic voting was fast-tracked across the country, with $3.9 billion in boondoggle funding, and no controls on corporate lobbying, and no provisions whatsoever for verifying the vote totals that these machines would produce.

55-56% would be a landslide in a presidential election.

Given this easy, virtually undetectable method of vote stealing in 80% of the country--and the backup plan in Ohio (massive vote suppression by filthy Republican political machine)--Rove could, in confidence, write the election narrative in May '04 or earlier, including what phony issues needed to be put on ballots (such as "gay marriage") to make it appear that rightwing 'christians' came out in force for Bush, in response to that issue, soundbites by Cheney and others about what a great GOTV job they were doing (in truth, the Democratic grass roots blew the Bushites away in new voter registration, nearly 60/40, in 2004), and a series of "Homeland Security" "terrorist" alerts in the weeks before the election that was so absurd people were laughing about it. "Soccer moms" or "security moms," or whatever you want to call them, would be another element of his story. The people--who were actually laughing--were presumed to be "scared," because, well, Rove insisted on it--and he's the author, right? "Talking point two"--they all dutifully wrote it down, to "explain" the election.

One thing I know about Rove: although he is a vicious SOB, he is not a very talented PR man. It doesn't take much talent to write copy for pre-ordained events. Just run-of-the-mill writing skills. Slapdashing things together--"gay marriage," "soccer moms," "terror." It all falls apart when you look at it closely. And Bush's numbers started plummeting on the very day of his 2nd inauguration (unprecedented!), and have never recovered. It's down to 26% or so now, with over 70% of the American people now opposed to the Iraq War and wanting it ended. A total failure of propaganda--by Rove, and by his lapdog corporate press.

The only thing they have succeeded at, on the propaganda front, is in convincing many members of the great, peace-minded, justice-minded, tolerant and largely progressive American majority that they are in the minority, that they are outnumbered by religious wackos, the super-rich and people with no common sense. They succeeded in demoralizing and disempowering the great majority--at least for a time--and they utterly smashed the awesome grass roots election movement that had arisen to oust Bush.

The truth of the matter is that the Zogby poll, which predicted a Kerry win, and the exit polls (the unexpurgated ones), which recorded a Kerry win on election day, were right, and the Diebold/ES&S secret formula vote totals were wrong. But we didn't know that then. We, the American people. And we, the election workers. Some of us presumed that the American people had gone nuts. Others blamed Kerry and the campaign. Still others--a small band of fanatic statisticians and skeptics, shunned by everyone--began analyzing the data, and discovering all sorts of things, for instance, that the exit polls had been DOCTORED to conform to Diebold/ES&S totals!

I was one of those fanatics--and so the great cloud of doom that fell over the nation didn't affect me as much as it affected some. I knew something about Diebold/ES&S. I had also been following the issue polls very closely, and I simply could not reconcile what the American people were saying they believed in, with a majority voting for Bush. 56% against the war from the beginning. 63% against torture "under any circumstances." And even bigger percentages on social and other government issues, way up in the 70% to 80% range, opposed to ALL Bush policy.

And I had one anecdotal bit, too, that just baffled me. I won't detail it, but it was a large group of older, retired Republicans in San Diego who hated Bush, and considered him to be "nuts" (in summer '04). None of them were voting for Bush! This fits with some theories that a major portion of the vote stealing was from Republican voters who voted for Kerry. Republican areas would be the safest place to switch votes from Kerry to Bush, without raising eyebrows.

In addition to realizing just how badly we have been fucked over by the Bushites, and by the war profiteering corporate news monopolies, we must realize that we ALSO have a serious problem with our Democratic leadership, who not only supported Bush's war, and have not only ESCALATED it, and given these bastards another $100 billion for killing Iraqis and stealing their oil, but they also colluded on non-transparent vote counting. That, to me, is the worst betrayal of all. That's why I mentioned, above, Congress' vote in favor of the election theft machines--which drew even more Democratic office holders' support than the Iraq War, and which has made it so hard to inform the public about this, and to restore transparent vote counting. Many Americans still believe that the Democratic Party provides an opposition, and that nothing as bad as this--Bushite corporations "counting" all our votes under a veil of corporate secrecy--would get by them. Well, it didn't just get by them. They supported it then, and they still support it.

I DO think that SOME Democratic office holders are good people, and are trying to represent us. And I think that, to some extent, fear and bullying has been responsible for their silence on these egregiously undemocratic voting machines--voting machines that violate every principle of fair elections. I just want us to be aware that the purpose of these election theft machines may not be--and probably is not--restricted to keeping Bush/Cheney in office and continuing the war. Their purpose is long term Corporate Ruler control of our election results and our government.

The election theft machines are not the only thing wrong with our election system. But they are the coup de grace. They make change impossible. We can match the fascists dollar for dollar in this rotten campaign contribution system--by means of many small donations. And we can outmaneuver the corporate news monopolies by word of mouth and GOTV. We clearly outnumber the fascists, and, even when they purge a million black voters from the voting rolls, we can outvote them. We can also monitor the polling places for other vote suppression tactics. But we cannot defeat "trade secret" vote counting. We have no tools for that. It's SECRET! And it has very nearly has been the death of our democracy. And it WILL be the death of our democracy if we don't find a way to change it (--which I think may be most doable at the state/local level).

We now have over 70% of the American people opposed to the war, and yet we could NOT get a Congress to stop the war, and instead got a Congress that ESCALATED the war. Think about it. How many of the "Blue Dog" Democrats who voted to escalate the war were honestly elected in 2006? Is THIS the reason why our party leaders support Diebold/ES&S secret vote counting? They're part of this fascist coup?

Yesterday, they voted to PREVENT the "Fairness Doctrine" from ever being re-instituted to require broadcasters to provide equal time for opposing political views. It seems suicidal for Democrats to do this (over 100 Dems voted for it, and it passed!!). Something is not right.

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