Coral Springs boy, 7, on no-fly list has been delayed at airport three times

[sabra]

Source: South Florida Sun-Sentinel

Michael Martin went through a hassle trying to fly out of Fort Lauderdale recently because his name was on a no-fly list. Rather than protest to authorities, he nervously turned to his mom for comfort.

"He thought he did something wrong," his mother, Krista Martin, 36, of Coral Springs, said.

Michael Martin is only 7 years old, a typical youngster who enjoys skateboarding and playing drums. Because he shares a name with a known or suspected terrorist, he has run into roadblocks three times before boarding an airliner, Krista Martin said.

...

The young boy, who stands 3 feet 9 inches tall and weighs 55 pounds, was then issued a boarding pass, she said. In the past, she said she also has had trouble booking on at least one other airline.

The TSA says the AirTran incident shouldn't have happened because airlines are responsible for "automatically" removing children from no-fly lists. Indeed, on its Web site, tsa.gov, the agency proclaims that placing children on such lists is a "myth."

Read more: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/sfl-flbnofly0724nbjul24,0,2509059.story

---

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. Him and... how many Michael Martins in the world?

Hundreds? Thousands? :shrug:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

4. I figure they want the IRA member Michael Martin

who is in prison in Ireland!

[TechBear_Seattle]

7. But you never know when he will break out of jail and disguise himself as a 7 year old child

There is a war on, in case you hadn't noticed. A war on terror. One can never be too careful. LONG LIVE THE FATHERLAND!

[yardwork]

2. I am so utterly revolted by this fascist regime.

[Solly Mack]

3. America's lost its fucking mind and the truly dangerous ones are those claiming it hasn't

[Alexander]

5. Michael Martin is also the Speaker of the UK House of Commons...

Who kicked out George Galloway today.



I wonder if he's prevented from flying to the US.

[go west young man]

12. Obviously a vendetta to tarnish his image and bring him down

as he was one of the few to stand against the war in Iraq. The suspension was 18 days but now they can say that he was found guilty which is pure bollocks as Galloway himself states. Article here: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22125705-23109,00.html

[ashling]

6. Thank you for showing us the real face of terrorism

We thought it was a guy in a turban and a beard smiling with his AK-47,

but it turns out its actually a 7 year old suicide drummer of death with his lethal drumsticks

Thank you

:sarcasm:

[denverbill]

8. Here's someplace Democrats could actually make some points with average Americans.

It's utterly ridiculous that Congressmen, peace activists, little old ladies, and even children are on this list, and have absolutely no way to clear their names and no recourse for their missed flights and inconvenience.

[maggiegault]

10. You're right. But they don't really care, else the matter would have been addressed already.

[sakabatou]

9. So much for a myth

[KG]

11. yep, because terrists smart enough to conquer america usually travel under their real names.

:eyes:

[Hugin]

13. Never leave home without it!

:thumbsup:

[ManiacJoe]

16. If the majority of criminals were smart,

law enforcement agencies would have a harder time doing their jobs.

[Knightly_Knews]

21. Actually.......

You will find that many criminals are extremely smart... I am not saying all.. But many are very smart individuals.. They only chose to do things the illegal way.
I mean seriously, someone in Washington is extremely smart, because these assholes are getting away with murder more and more every day.

[ManiacJoe]

23. Fortunately, the smart ones are the minority. (n/t)

[ManiacJoe]

14. Very misleading title.

The TSA says he is not on the list.
The airlines say he is not on the list.
His mom says he is not on the list.

Every time the system flags his name for a possible match on the limited data, humans verify on the full data, confirm the mismatch of the full data, and issue a boarding pass. The system works as it is supposed to.

Mom even admits that it is worth the extra effort in paperwork to shortcut the system as designed.

Where is the problem?

[maggiegault]

18. It is a piss poor intrusion on his right. It assumes guilt before innocence.

To me, his age almost is irrelevant. No innocent American should be inconvenienced in ANY way under the guise of "freedom."

I don't care if it means asking him one extra question. It isn't right.

[ManiacJoe]

22. What are you talking about?

What "guise of freedom" are you referring to?

What right of his is being intruded on?

Where is guilt being assumed?

[superconnected]

24. I agree completely.

[maggiegault]

25. Do you want to explain why this is bad to "ManiacJoe," or shall we just leave it alone entirely?

Because, you know, there are some lessons that just cannot be taught. You either get it, or you don't. Joe doesn't.

[ManiacJoe]

26. What lesson is trying to be taught?

For all I know you could be right, if only you would explain your position.

[maggiegault]

27. Why bother? As I said, you either get it...or you don't. You clearly don't.

[ManiacJoe]

28. What is to get?

First there is your apparent disregard or misunderstanding of the facts involved. Then there is you use of indefinite pronouns without something to actually refer to.

I can only offer limited encouragement to you to better communicate your message. After that it is up to you.

[maggiegault]

29. Ah, condescension. Must make you feel better. Good.

[ManiacJoe]

31. No condescension from me; it's not worth my time.

I just asked some simple questions back in #22 in the hope of getting you to clarify your response, which has yet to happen. I apologize if my terse text in #22 lead you to believe otherwise.

[Occulus]

36. The lesson is

The 'authority' is not always right. The lesson is, a child should not be on any list. The lesson is, such things are wrong, wrong, wrong, and should not be possible in the first place.

Americans ought not concern themselves with whether or not their name appears on a government list. Did you somehow miss this lesson in civics class?

[ManiacJoe]

37. That is a lesson, any way.

The child is not on the no-fly list. So says the TSA. So says the airlines. So says the mother. So says the fact that the child has been on at least three separate flights.

Hell, the "authority" is quite frequently wrong, never mind "not always right."

In my civics class we were rightfully taught that government lists were morally wrong, frequently illegal, and of no use in The Real World.

While there are lots of lessons that folks are trying to put forth, they all bare little resemblance to the news article in the original post. Maybe my age is starting to show in that I vaguely remember what reasonable reporting used to look like.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[brentspeak]

41. I don't understand what your point is either. Can you explain it to the rest of us?

[treestar]

30. That the lists are too broad and not well used

If they truly wanted to catch terrorists, this kind of silly stuff wouldn't be happening.

The terrorist watch list has 500,000 people on it. That's not a real effort. That's CYA of government bureaucrats erring on the safe side. For which one can't blame them if that's what the higher-ups want them to do.

A terrorist watch list that big is useless. And given the bungling incompetence of this Administration, the no-fly list no doubt is ridiculous, too.

[ManiacJoe]

32. You'll get no argument from me.

500K on the list? Is there an easy site for that number? I don't see the current government as being able to come up with that many, well, doing so honestly any way.

[treestar]

42. Here's one site

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/24/AR2007032400944.html

There's an article out there somewhere with 500,000, since I read it a while back, but I don't know where it is. Googling now gives me articles indicating 325,000 or 435,000.

When it was smaller, in August 2001, it still wasn't immediately enforced. Two of the hijackers were on it a few weeks before 911, and there weren't detained. Makes you wonder how they expect to detail the millions of aliens merely in the US illegally.

[Nihil]

40. I'm not sure it's the title that's misleading.

> The TSA says he is not on the list.
> The airlines say he is not on the list.
> His mom says he is not on the list.

Hence he is not on the list and is free to travel ...
... or not as the case may be ...

> Every time the system flags his name for a possible match on the limited
> data, humans verify on the full data, confirm the mismatch of the full data,
> and issue a boarding pass. The system works as it is supposed to.

You might not have meant this but you actually said that the system is
working as it is supposed to when it stops him from travelling freely
even though he is "not" on the list designed to stop people from travelling
freely.

This isn't "free to travel", it is "papieren bitte".

[Patsy Stone]

15. I'm in Coral Springs right now

Nothing good ever happens here. :)

[maggiegault]

17. Assinine. And the freeper idiots are saying, "well, that there's the price ya pay for FREEDOM."

Pardon me, but I remember a United States where it was fun to be a kid. Innocent times, just one more thing snatched away by * and Darth.

I worry about my little nieces and nephews, the kind of world they will grow up in. As it is, two of them have to grow up without their father, who was killed in Iraq.

And don't get me, a severe hypoglycemic who takes lithium for bipolar disorder, started about the assinine liquid restrictions. It's so much FUN to take a late-night flight when all of the shops are closed and you cannot buy water on the "safe" side. Most of the time, the FAs are really nice about it, but it is playing russian roulette with my health, and I resent that mightily. Doctor's letters don't do shit, by the way. There is no uniformity as to how TSA handles them.

[Canuckistanian]

19. You forgot the "hyulk, hyulk, hyulk" after that comment

This "no-fly list" business is Kafkaesque.

If someone is SOOOO dangerous, then why not arrest them right away at the boarding gate?

These stories are so common now - even Senator Kennedy was included on the list at one point - that I really have NO confidence that they have a CLUE who's dangerous.

[apnu]

20. The TSA is like a Family Circus comic

Parent: "Who put that boy on the no fly list?!?!"

TSA: "Not Me!"

[silverojo]

33. So much for "racial profiling"

This kid's lily-white, and he's getting hassled. :eyes:

[ManiacJoe]

34. Where did you get the impression that

any profiling (racial or otherwise) came into play here?

[Hydra]

35. Figures

I'm SO glad my tax money is going to this. I had to rebook someone's vacation a few months ago at the travel agency I work at because he was blocked from getting on the plane to Whistler due to a misdemeanor. I also love the 3 ounce rule, since the supposed plane bombers chem formula was debunked, just like the shoe bomber trying to detonate C4 with a fuse. Either the terrorists are idiots, or the gov't thinks we are.

:rant:

[saltpoint]

38. And they say government doesn't work!

I say we owe a debt of gratitude to the Homeland Security folks for detaining this guy.

One look at him and you can SEE he's a an amoral international menace.