Cuba frees long-serving dissident

[Eugene]

Source: BBC News

Last Updated: Saturday, 11 August 2007, 04:42 GMT 05:42 UK

Cuba frees long-serving dissident

By Michael Voss
BBC News, Havana

A well-known Cuban dissident has been freed from jail
after serving nearly 15 years for revealing state security
secrets, a human rights group has said.

Francisco Chaviano, a former teacher, was sentenced in
1995 and was released on parole on Friday.

The independent Cuban Commission for Human Rights and
National Reconciliation said that he was Cuba's longest-
serving political prisoner.

The Cuban government has not commented on Mr Chaviano's
release.

-snip-

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6941582.stm

---

Also: Freed dissident tells of abuses, torment of 13 years in `hell' - Miami Herald

[Mythsaje]

1. I have the funny feeling

that there's more than one similar story brewed here in the ol' U.S.A.

[Mika]

2. I guess that the Castrophobes think that he should have been pardoned, like Scooter Libby?

Scooter (among others involved in the Valerie Wilson/Brewster Jennings exposure) should have been given 15 years for his treasonous activities.

[Bacchus39]

12. what was his crime?

not towing the line? speaking out?

[ohio2007]

3. The number of political prisoners has fallen under Raul Castro

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6941582.stm
from the pic and comment it seems the BBC thinks Fidel has gone soft in his old age.
Did Raul really step dow2n?

[ohio2007]

4. ...there were still more than 200 such prisoners living in what he described

as sub-human and degrading conditions.


Why not free all of them and send them to Gitmo?

[ProudDad]

5. Poor Baby...

'I spent five years stuck in a cell without seeing the sun, two years without receiving visitors and four years without conjugal visits,'' he added. ``It was a cruel, merciless treatment that was also extended to my family, my wife and my children.'

From the Miami (fascist) Herald...

He thinks that was bad, he should f*ckin' try Guantanamo or even Pelican Bay, CA or even Santa Rita Jail...

All are much worse than what he "experienced"...

All are filled with U.S. political prisoners...


So, let's see, he gets out after 13 years of a 20 year sentence then John Walker Lindh should be released on parole in about 8 years, right??? Yeah, right :sarcasm:

Of course, John Walker Lindh is being held (tortured) at the supermax in Florence, CO -- A much deeper circle of hell than the one where guy was held...

Nobody does torture better than the good ole' U.S. of freakin' A...

[Mika]

6. A Clinical Instructor, Criminal Justice Institute, Harvard Law School comments on Cuba's prison syst

http://afrocubaweb.com/elijah.htm">LESSONS FROM OUR NEIGHBORS TO THE SOUTH:
http://afrocubaweb.com/elijah.htm">THE CUBAN PRISON SYSTEM - REFLECTIVE OBSERVATIONS 2000

by Prof. Soffiyah Elijah
Clinical Instructor
Criminal Justice Institute
Harvard Law School

Since the island nation of Cuba experienced its successful revolution in 1959 its prison system has been evolving. Despite accusations of harsh human rights abuses from its neighbors to the North, Cuba today maintains a prison system that is in many respects far more humane than Western propaganda would have the uninformed public believe.

My study of the Cuban prison system began in 1987 when I first visited the country to attend a conference co-sponsored by the American Association of Jurists and the Cuban Association of Jurists. I was pleasantly surprised during the trip when the opportunity arose to visit a men's prison. A group of conference attendees traveled by bus to the prison and when we arrived we were not searched and our belongings were not checked. We did not sign in or out. Nobody asked to check our identification. Having visited numerous prisons in the U.S. I have never entered any of them without a thorough search of my person and my belongings. Government issued photo identification is always required.

Although we were given a tour of the prison we were free to wander off and talk with the prisoners unmonitored. We walked all around the facility and were allowed to go into cells, work areas, the cafeteria, hospital, classrooms, recreation area and any other space we chose. This we were allowed to do unaccompanied. The prisoners wore street clothing.

Although one might think that this must have been a minimum or medium security prison, there are no such institutional classifications. Prison institutions are not characterized by security level. Rather prisoners of varying security levels are all housed in the same facility. The four levels of security classification for prisoners are maximum, high, moderate and minimum. The distinction in their security classification is borne out in the frequency with which they are allowed family and conjugal visits, mail, phone privileges and furlough availability. All prisoners, regardless of security level, are afforded at least four family and conjugal visits a year. Prisoners with the lowest security classifications are afforded more frequent family and conjugal visits than higher security classified prisoners.

Needless to say I was a bit taken aback at this very different approach. For the next thirteen years I built on this experience and conducted further research on the Cuban prison system.

In 1988 I returned to Cuba to attend the International Women¹s Conference hosted by the Federation of Cuban Women (FMC). Another opportunity arose to visit a prison, this time it was a women’s facility. My impressions were very similar to those I had when I visited the men’s facility. In a nutshell, the Cuban system still impressed me as being more humane than what I had observed in the United States.

Prisoners in Cuba are incarcerated in the province in which they live. A province is the geographic equivalent to a county as we know it in the United States. This is done to facilitate regular contact between prisoners and their families. This contact is seen as an integral part of the prisoner¹s rehabilitation. Families are incorporated through joint counseling into the rehabilitation process. Each prison is staffed with professionals who are trained to assist the family and the prisoner plan for his or her re-entry into the community. The focus is on rehabilitation as opposed to retribution and punishment.

Prisoners or their families may request conditional liberty passes. These are similar to furloughs and are granted to allow the prisoner to tend to his or a family member’s health. The furlough time is counted as part of the sentence.

Prisoners are not obligated to work. Work is considered a right of the prisoner so that he can earn an income. Prisoners are allowed to work in the same sort of employment as they held prior to their incarceration if it is available at the facility where they are being held. They are compensated for their labor at the same wage that free workers are compensated. They are not charged room and board no matter how much they earn. Similarly, they do not have to pay for their education, medical, dental or hospital care or any other activities they experience. Social security benefits and pensions are available to all prison laborers. In the event of a prisoner’s death, his family will receive his pension. A portion of the prisoner’s earnings is sent to his family. Even if a prisoner does not work, his family will be cared for by the State.

Once a prisoner has served at least half of his sentence he can request a conditional release if he is a first offender. A positive conduct record is the primary factor considered in granting the request for relief. The request for conditional release is made to the sentencing tribunal. The district attorney is given an opportunity to be heard with respect to the request. All prisoners are released after serving two thirds of their sentences.

In 1997 the availability of alternatives to incarceration was expanded to cover all defendants sentenced to up to five years incarceration. Previously these alternatives were only available to defendants sentenced to up to three years. The expansion of the availability of alternatives to incarceration to all defendants facing up to five years’ incarceration covered almost 95% of Cuba¹s prisoners. The recidivism rate for those prisoners released pursuant to the use of alternatives to incarceration is less than 15%. These alternatives include a form of probation, conditional release (similar to parole) and suspended sentences.

The conditional release program is very interesting. The defendant lives for twelve days in a residence located near a farm or industrial center. He works at the farm or industrial center during these twelve days. Then he has three days off where he can leave the residence and go home to his family. On the fourth day, the defendant returns to the work site and the residence. The defendant works side by side with non-incarcerated workers who are not informed of his status. He is paid the same wage as his co-workers and is afforded the same benefits and privileges. He works the same shifts and wears civilian clothing. Work alternatives can be revoked if the defendant fails to adhere to the rules and conditions of the program. The sentencing tribunal is informed if the defendant fails to meet the conditions and it can decide to return the defendant to prison.

The goal of the Cuban prison system is to return people to the community as productive contributors as soon as possible. Therefore the focus is not on punishment, but rather on rehabilitation and re-education. Perhaps this goal would be a useful addition to the prison system that has evolved in the United States.

Permission to post this article personally given by author.

[ProudDad]

7. Those DAMN Communists!!!

"The goal of the Cuban prison system is to return people to the community as productive contributors as soon as possible. Therefore the focus is not on punishment, but rather on rehabilitation and re-education. Perhaps this goal would be a useful addition to the prison system that has evolved in the United States."

Just the opposite of the hugely successful methods practiced in the good ole' U.S. of Freakin' A.

[robcon]

8. Always with the bullshit at the ready

The usual apologists for the Castro's police state surface again.

Human Rights Watch...

"Despite a few positive developments over the course of the year, the Cuban government's human rights practices were generally arbitrary and repressive. Hundreds of peaceful opponents of the government remained behind bars, and many more were subject to short-term detentions, house arrest, surveillance, arbitrary searches, evictions, travel restrictions, politically-motivated dismissals from employment, threats, and other forms of harassment."

[Mika]

9. I must be true if Cubanet and other paid rightwingnut Mellon Scaife foundations say so.

I see you are at the ready with your rightwing sourced apologia.

As for me, I'll go with the first hand accounts from competent professionals in their field who have actually been there and who have done first hand investigations and documented their experience. Not the dishonest undocumented heresay "some people say" reportage offered by the paid "independent" journalists who are employed by these RW organizations with the express intent of producing anti Cuba propaganda. These RW anti Cuba foundations are the sources that HRW & AI rely on when it comes to their Cuba reports.

[Bacchus39]

11. what about accounts of Cubans who were imprisoned?

do you take their experiences and opinions into consideration?

[ProudDad]

14. No one likes "being imprisoned"

but having been "imprisoned" in this fucked up country I can tell you it's MUCH WORSE IN THE FUCKING U.S. of Freakin' A.!!!!

There's not even a pretense at rehabilitation. The most predatory prisoners are in charge and the guards aid and abet that fact. The food sucks, you rarely get visitors and NO contact visits. And that's not even in a super-max, that's just your local fucked up county jail.

It's a drag being "locked up" but if I had a choice, I'd pick Cuba over this fucked up police state...at least they try...

[Mika]

21. The account in the OP story is of a man released early from his sentence for treason.

I do take their stories into consideration. But, an early release doesn't sound like the kind of thing that a maniacal dictatorship bent on repression would do - unless its W Bush pardoning Libby for treason.

[Bacchus39]

23. some info on the charges

Chaviano was president of the Cuban National Council for Civil Rights when he was arrested in May 1994. He was sentenced behind closed doors by a military court about a year later for allegedly revealing state secrets while documenting the cases of rafters who disappeared or died trying to leave Cuba. Chaviano denied revealing state secrets, and his supporters said no defense evidence was presented during the trial.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070811/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cuba_political_prisoner_freed;_ylt=Av33VVK8QlpeEC5FYdFcUii3IxIF

documenting disappearances seems a worthy journalistic effort. perhaps the revelation of which was the secret the State was concerned about.

and you know that Scooter Boy was convicted of perjury, not treason.

[ProudDad]

10. You're just jealous

'cause you live in a police state and the Cubans don't...

[Bacchus39]

13. it seems this particular prisoner didn't share the same evaluation

having to actually endure it.

[ProudDad]

15. My heart bleads

If he don't like Socialism, he oughta' fucking leave...

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[Boojatta]

17. Are you advocating that Cubans should violate Cuban law?

The government continued to prosecute people for "illegal exit" if they attempted to leave the island without first obtaining official permission to do so. Such permission was sometimes denied arbitrarily, or made contingent on the purchase of an expensive exit permit.

Regarding prisons in Cuba:

Cuba was also one of the few countries in the world, and the only one in the Western Hemisphere, to deny the International Committee of the Red Cross access to its prisons.

Source:
http://www.ruleoflawandcuba.fsu.edu/report-hrw.cfm

[Mika]

22. More Cubanet/Scaife propaganda.

HRW gets their "information" from USNED/Cubanet/Radio&TV Marti paid "journalists". Not even fit for asswipe.

[Boojatta]

24. Have you thoroughly studied Cuban law and found nothing

resembling illegal exit? Are you suggesting that the notion has been simply invented out of whole cloth?

[Mika]

26. I have studied Cuban law.

The US pushed Cuba (in the mid 90's) into an immigration agreement that criminalized both human smuggling and illegal migration to the USA, in order to prevent dangerous migrations by boat to the US. In exchange, the US promised streamlining its legal immigration visa program for Cubans (over 20,000 per year, more than any other country). The US still has not fulfilled its end of the agreement. Built into this agreement (at the behest of the US negotiators) is the clause that any mass migration from Cuba to the US will be considered tantamount to a declaration of war by Cuba.

These illegal migrations are rewarded on the US side by the US's Wet Foot/Dry Foot policy along with the US's Cuban Adjustment Act. Together, these US laws encourage illegal Cuban immigration to the US, in that they instantly make legal any and all Cuban who touch US soil and offers them a plethora of perks not offered to any other nationality (some perks not even offered to US citizens - such as income exemption for Sec 8 taxpayer subsidized housing).

Why do they come here?

Its poverty.

Its poverty that brings most immigrants here.


Except that ONLY Cuban immigrants are given the types of perks given by the US Cuban Adjustment Act. (Instant work visa, instant eligibility for a green card, instant welfare, instant Social Security, instant access to Sec 8 housing. AND THIS INCLUDES ILLEGAL ENTRANTS who are covered under the US "wet foot/ dry foot" policy for Cubans only.)


Of the tens of thousands who annually 'escape' Mexico hundreds of Mexicans die 'escaping' to the US every year.

Mexico doesn't face economically devastating US sanctions, as Cuba does.

Mexicans illegal immigrants don't benefit from any 'Mexican Adjustment Act'


Come to Miami and you'll meet people from all over the Caribbean, from all over the Central Americas, and from all over the South Americas. They all 'escaped' too.

None of their countries face economically devastating US sanctions, as Cuba does.

None of their citizens are offered an 'Adjustment Act' like Cubans are.

But they still pour into the US.


They are escaping poverty.


The US sanctions forces poverty on Cubans in Cuba, at the same time offering a plethora of immigration/financial perks, so the driveling propagandists and their useful idiots can pretend that they're 'fleeing' Cuba's political system. At the same time creating treaties that force Cuba to stop these illegal migrations to the US under the threat of declarations of war. All that's needed for that strategy to politically work is a totally_ignorant_about_Cuba_policy American public. Its working.

[Judi Lynn]

28. That's really some situation they devised for Cuba concerning the rafters, isn't it?

If Cuba DOESN'T attempt to stop them, it will be seen as an act of aggression. If they DO succeed in stopping them, they are trumpeted loudly as being cruel to people trying to "escape."

"Tantamount to a declaration of war by Cuba!" Add to this bizarre situation, the many items which appeared on the Operation Northwoods, signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the 1960's, which introduced a host of options which would all serve as reasons to launch a full scale war on Cuba, all of them manufactured, like arranging to blow up boats of Cubans coming to the U.S. and claiming Cuba had done it, or killing people on the streets of the U.S., and claiming these were acts of Cubans and use this as a reason to attack the island, or how about their big bright idea, bringing down John Glen's spacecraft, and claiming "Cuba did it" and using that as a reason to invade and destroy the government? Of course, throw in phony attacks on Guantanamo, and shoot downs of aircraft.

So much energy spent not only in beating Cuba down year after year through the embargo and additional extraterritorial legislation which penalizes other countries for doing business with Cuba, and a 365 day a year disinformation campaign, destabilization program through funding "dissidents," (illegal here, were the situation reversed!), but also initiating and maintaining a terrorism campaign for decades, with raids and murders and sabotage conducted by Florida "exiles," who openly brag that the U.S. government turns its head and fully allows it.

All that beating has made a very resiliant, inventive island nation into a creative, tough group of people, who have, despite the unthinkable hardship, excelled in science, education, agriculture, arts, sports, etc. and achieved world-wide appreciation with a longevity and infant mortality record admired everywhere other than the U.S.

[Tyler Durden]

30. Seem here if you say something GOOD about Cuba, you suck.

You know something? There is something GOOD about EVERYONE. The darkest soul has a glimmer of light. I'm sure even BUSH has said something nice to SOMEONE in the last year or two.

The point is that we have been so repressive to Cuba that if Russia had acted that way to a country not part of their hegemony, we would have reacted with TANKS.

If there's anything wrong with Cuba today, guess who takes some of the blame, no matter how small you make the slice?

US.

[Judi Lynn]

31. You're right! That cold war is raging away, unchecked, with some people, concerning this little

country. It's like seeing a bully who has dragged someone into an ally, whaling away on him with no help in sight!

The pattern goes back a very long time. Certain American control freaks have been trying to conquer them for over 100 years.

The Guardian wrote an article around 7 years ago which still holds up:

~snip~
"We must destroy everything within our cannons' range of fire. We must
impose a harsh blockade so that hunger and ... disease undermine the
peaceful population and decimate the Cuban army...

"To sum up, our policy must always be to support the weaker against the
stronger, until we have obtained the extermination of them both, in order
to annexe the Pearl of the Antilles", wrote US Secretary of War
Breckenridge on Christmas Eve, 1897.

George Bush in April 1992 said the USA's grossly misnamed Cuban Democracy
Act "seeks to build on the strong pro-democracy policy of this legislation
to isolate Cuba until democratic change comes to that embattled island".
(snip/...)

http://www.cpa.org.au/garchive/940cuba.htm

Here's the Breckenridge Amendment, written Christmas Eve, 1897, by John C. Breckenridge. I looked him up once, and I believe he was a Confederate Civil War officer earlier in his career. This writing will show just how obsessed certain elements in this country have realy been. There's a great deal of racism involved, as well, as you'll see in the article. It does stand out:

http://www.historyofcuba.com/history/bmemo.htm

[Yupster]

18. Love it or leave it

I've heard that one before.

[Judi Lynn]

19. As it was, before the revolution, if you didn't love US/Mafia-supported Batista raunchy capitalism,

if you didn't love the Cuban government, you left the PLANET! Sometimes it was in novel, imaginative ways, like tortured to death, then hung from light poles in Havana, or thrown out of cars by the death squads, like Masferrer's Tigres.

Too bad these people don't spend some of their time reading actual Cuban history, rather than spinning half-baked gibberish built around Miami Batistiano "exile" crappola, and right-wing U.S. propaganda. What a sad waste of time.

[nick303]

16. Obviously biased language is irrelevant when it supports your side

[Tyler Durden]

27. A Harvard Law Professor, obviously biased??

Right. Sure.

[nick303]

36. Are you going to try to tell me someone is free of bias because they are from Harvard?

Instead of attempting to snipe at me, try reading the article. If you don't find examples of biased language I'd suggest enrolling in a local junior high school to catch up on comprehension.

[Tyler Durden]

41. You know what?

If you think THAT was a "Snipe," then don't piss me off. I'm tired and bored right now, and I have too much work to finish today before vacation. When I get back, I'll remember your name: I was old enough during Batista and after Castro the Bay of Pigs to know what the score is, and I've been following it now for 48 years.

I read the article. Yes, it was opinion, it just didn't agree with YOURS.

Grow a little thicker skin if you want to hang around HERE kiddo.

[killbotfactory]

20. What was this guy charged for, exactly?

"Revealing state security secrets" doesn't really say much.

[ProudDad]

25. He probably did a lot more

than that poor bastard John Walker Lindh did...

[Tyler Durden]

29. It'll get ya in GITMO around here.

When the Pig Bush and his minions let daylight into the least of their "state secrets" that they cannot even divulge to a sitting appeals court, THEN I will worry about what other countries consider "revealing state secrets."

We aren't just the pot here: We are the soot covered, fire blackened, rustoleum heat-black painted pot. Compared to us versus our rhetoric, the Cubans are angels with little white wings. In honor of "The KING"

Clean Up Your Own Backyard


Artist:Elvis Presley


(Words & music by B. Strange - S. Davis)

Back porch preacher preaching at me
Acting like he wrote the golden rules
Shaking his fist and speeching at me
Shouting from his soap box like a fool
Come Sunday morning he's lying in bed
With his eye all red, with the wine in his head
Wishing he was dead when he oughta be
Heading for Sunday school

Clean up your own backyard
Oh don't you hand me none of your lines
Clean up your own backyard
You tend to your business, I’ll tend to mine

Drugstore cowboy criticizing
Acting like he's better than you and me
Standing on the sidewalk supervising
Telling everybody how they ought to be
Come closing time 'most every night
He locks up tight and out go the lights
And he ducks out of sight and he cheats on his wife
With his employee

Clean up your own backyard
Oh don't you hand me none of your lines
Clean up your own backyard
You tend to your business, I’ll tend to mine

Armchair quarterback's always moanin'
Second guessing people all day long
Pushing, fooling and hanging on in
Always messing where they don't belong
When you get right down to the nitty-gritty
Isn't it a pity that in this big city
Not a one a'little bitty man'll admit
He could have been a little bit wrong

Clean up your own backyard
Oh don't you hand me, don't you hand me none of your lines
Clean up your own backyard
You tend to your business, I’ll tend to mine

Clean up your own backyard
You tend to your business, I’ll tend to mine

[killbotfactory]

38. I was just wondering if there was any more info on the trial

I've done enough research to realize that most of the information on Cuba we have access to, is a bit unreliable, to say the least, due to Cuba being an enemy of Washington for nearly 50 years

[Bacchus39]

32. here is another one

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070815/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cuba_dissident_released;_ylt=Agw8P8RRmvQyDcC7noE5t8u3IxIF

Police visited Gonzalez in October 2004 after he painted a Cuban flag and two quotes about liberty by independence hero Jose Marti on his house. Sanchez said he could not recall the exact quotes, which apparently were chosen to criticize the government.

When Gonzalez refused police demands to erase the paintings, he was arrested on charges of disrespect, disobedience to authorities and resisting arrest. He later received a three-year prison sentence.

[Mika]

35. LOL. You continue to post US paid for propaganda.

The "National Commission for Human Rights and National Reconciliation", mentioned in your articles, are bought and paid for by the US interests section in Havana. A completely bogus US front op. They are agents of the self declared enemy of Cuba. They are paid to produce anti Cuba propaganda that suits this administration's goals. Why am I not suprised that you post 'some people said' type of disinfo like Faux Noise does (".. according to Sanchez's commission").

[Bacchus39]

40. you mean he wasn't arrested for disobedience?

well, thats good. what a ridiculous charge. do you think "disrespect" should be a crime?

[Mika]

43. If paid US gov agents say so, then it must be true.

:crazy:

[Bacchus39]

44. if Cuba arrests him for disobedience and disrespect

and imprisoned him for three years he must have committed a grave crime, like calling Castro a "pendejo" I suppose.

what does Granma or Prensa Latina have to say about it?

[Mika]

45. The OP article says he was imprisoned for revealing state security secrets..

.. and you have stated that it is probably a good thing to reveal. Why would you say that?

Being that the US has threatened Cuba with war if there is a large "exodus" (an undefined number) from Cuba, then it would figure that the numbers of illegal travel to the US might just be a Cuban state secret. Especially with a man with an itchy trigger finger like Bush at the helm of the most powerful military, who has declared that bringing down Cuba's sovereignty is the goal.

Its the US that forces Cuba to take a defensive stance under the threat of attack. This plays right into the hands of the mewling Cubaphobe propagandists who rely on American's ignorance of their own government's activities against Cuba. Now, I know that you are not one of the aforementioned mewling propagandist's targets, because I think that you know the actual situation that the US places Cuba in. Still, you stand at-the-ready to post the mewlings of the US government paid anti Cuba propagandists (".. according to Sanchez's commission").

IMO, you seem to want Cuba to succumb to US domination, despite the fact that Cubans in Cuba overwhelmingly support their socialist system of government. By using US gov and Miamicuban exile bought and paid for propaganda you seem to be supporting the stance of the Miamicubano extremists who dream of returning Cuba to the Batista era of US control.

[Bacchus39]

46. no, it says he was arrested for disrespect and disobedience

you're speculating on what those State secrets are that refer to the political prisoner who was the subject of the original post. and your example of a "potential" State secret of the numbers trying to flee Cuba are ludicrous and laughable.

since you question anything anti-Castro, then do you disagree with the article that says the prisoner was actually released? are you saying Cuba is still holding him? or are you questioning whether he was arrested for disobedience and disrespect?

you are entitled to any irrational opinion you like. its actually amusing.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[msanthrope]

34. You know, it is possible to recognize that Cuba is

under the rule of a repressive, militant toad without

wishing for the return of Batista.

It is possibe to wish better for the Cuban people than Fidel or Batista, without losing one's humanity.

It's not an either/or.

It's hope that one day the informers and secret police are out of job.

[Judi Lynn]

37. The reason Americans are FORBIDDEN TO TRAVEL TO CUBA

is exactly because Cuba is a hot political topic, and right-wingers have moved heaven and earth to punish the island for its audacity in standing up to a U.S.-supported bloody, vicious, death-squad loving monster.

The American right-wing, and the American Mafia thought he couldn't be finer. NEVER did anyone here lift an eyebrow, nor yammer away day in and day out about what a filthy piece of #### he was, before he finally took off, lifting a huge chunk of the Cuban National Treasury when he did.

Rattle on all you will, Cuba is going to be determined by the CUBANS WHO LIVE THERE. It is THEIR BUSINESS. It is NOT the business of this government to practise economic warfare against the people, engaging other countries in ways that make it impossible for them to sell some of their medical products to Cuba, or various other things, due to the extraterritorial reach of the Helms-Burton Act. Canada has legislated a measure calling Canadians to disregard the demands of this American attempt to control their commerce with Cuba. Other countries said years ago that the American legislation is illegal according to international law.

We don't need the Cuban right-wing terrorists in Miami to continue their terror campaign against Cubans which they've conducted since the 1960's, with American permission, although THAT is formally illegal here, as well.

Eventually the slow ones among us will learn what has been happening in the Western Hemisphere at the hands of the right-wing racist, fascist reactionaries, and put more pressure on their legislators to clean up our national act, and let these idiot mouth-breathing, drooling infantile narcissists take their cheap and ignorant bright ideas on how to conduct our national policy elsewhere. We don't need them dragging us down any longer. Time to grow up.

Leave Cuba to the real CUBANS, and not the ones in Miami.

[Vidar]

39. Magnificent explanation, Judi.

[Tyler Durden]

42. Yes, the US would be much better off without our Informers and Secret Police.

ALL organized governments have informers and secret police; the bigger the government, the larger and better organized secret police.

And if you disbelieve that, you're kidding yourself.