Breaking CNN: US Troops accused of trashing Mosque. (Iraq)

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

What appeared to be a thousand strong group of protesters vowing retribution was shown as well as a terribly damaged folio sized hand embellished Quo'ran torn and disheveled.

Looked bad, more to come as available.

[Judi Lynn]

1. Thanks for the news. Need to hear more about this.

The _Bush administration has drilled home the importance of loathing EVERYONE different from Republicans, from the first.

No surprise when some Americans run amock. They've been taught to disrespect others.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

4. Sad thing is that while searching the news I have not found a thing

on this anywhere.

You have to believe that there are a lot of people working at trying to keep news like this out of the mainstream.

I guess it's unpatriotic to acknowledge that US troops have done something wrong.

[alcuno]

2. A mosque? Difficult to understand but not impossible.

Any chance that someone is using all those American uniforms that we heard about in the run up to the invasion?

[Benhurst]

14. About as much chance

as someone other than our own troops using the helicopters circling above and the armored vehicles crashing through the gates.

Anything is possible. But probable?

With only Fox News to watch, is it any wonder our troops are behaving this way?

[0007]

34. FAUX News is all our troops get to watch?

.....and Faux is like a direct line to the White House. This act says a lot about the way junior feels and thinks, 'eh?

[Southpaw Bookworm]

3. No respect for difference

This sort of thing breaks my heart, and adds even more to the karmic payback load the United States will be paying in future years.

But, what else do you expect when people are taught in their religious and political institutions that theirs is the ONLY correct path and all others are not just to be ignored, but to be destroyed.

[coolhand27]

28. Who are you talking about?

"But, what else do you expect when people are taught in their religious and political institutions that theirs is the ONLY correct path and all others are not just to be ignored, but to be destroyed."

I'm confused....are you talking about Christians or Muslims?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

30. There's no difference.

However, we're the biggest bullies on the block over there.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

47. Our good Christian soldiers

Over there, fighting for God and country :eyes:

[Red State Rebel]

92. I was thinking the same thing....I'm tired of the Christian bashing on DU

[arcane1]

5. serves those I-rackies right, teach 'em a lesson!

that'll teach them to oppose foreign invaders!

:eyes:


this should help win thier hearts & minds, no? I doubt the Jews and Christians in Iraq are too pleased about this, either.

We get a stupid president and the whole country seems to think down to his level, sigh....

[Fovea]

6. If true

this is an unspeakable outrage.

This bodes ill for the coming year.
Keep your asses covered and your heads down over there
boys and girls.

And if this is an Amercian Troop atrocity, find the asshole,
and publicly beat them to death with soap/sock clubs.
That may help some...

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

9. I'm very much inclined to believe this is true.

It hit Jihaad unspun 9 hours ago and now on CNN. CNN apparently took some time to confirm before releasing information earlier this hour.

[westman]

26. Are you also very much inclined to believe

that Saddam filled mass graves with tens of thousands of people, each of whom had a greater intrinsic value than a copy of the Koran?

Don't be selective in your indignation. It's not good for out party.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

27. If you wouldn't buy into the Repug revisionist history, you would

recall that we didn't invade Iraq because Saddam was a bad man, but because he supposedly posed an imminent threat with his WMD and association with Al Qaeda. All bullshit.

Remember Dubya, Condi, Colin and Cheney all using the mushroom cloud metaphor? We have NO fucking business over there.

[westman]

31. Again, is it worse to shred a Koran

or kill tens of thousands of political enemies? That's not revisionist history.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

35. "Do you still beat your wife? Yes or no." I won't play these Limbaugh

or Hannity arguments you are using. The fact is, we have no business there in the first place. Besides, The US just killed 10's of thousands of "political enemies" a lot more recently than Saddam (Who, btw, did it with our blessing) in this invasion of Iraq.

Another thing to consider... Do you have any idea of the value of a hand illuminated leaf from a 1000 year old Qu'ran? They can sell on the black market for thousands. THAT's why that got hit.

[SwellGround]

37. You have some proof or evidence they got hit for their 1000 YO quran?

Please share it with the class if you do. All the qurans in the world are not worth one single innocent life.

The US is not there to pilfer qurans or other loot except for maybe oil.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

39. I saw the pics and have been in the rare book business for 20 years.

CNN reported about the pages.

And if you believe that our soldiers are ALL perfect people above temptation, you might need a reality check.

[westman]

58. I'm not asking you to play a game.

I'm just asking you answer a realistic question.

I, as do many (perhaps most) Democrats believe that we and the coalition did the right thing. If you have a problem with the invasion, build your case for that. Don't keep throwing up these meaningless diversions.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

61. I feel like I'm talking to Sean Hannity here.... THAT'S A STUPID,

RHETORICAL QUESTION. Of course 10,000 lives are worth more that a manuscript leaf. WTF does this have to do with the topic at hand? WTF does our ransacking a Mosque for two pictures of Saddam and a piddling amount of weapons in a country that's the NRA's wet dream in terms of number of guns per person?

And it has NOTHING to do with the original topic.

Build my case for the invasion being wrong? First, they figured out in the 1600's that preemptive warfare didn't work too well, 2nd, there was NO THREAT from Iraq, third, Congress and the American people were fed lies and exaggerations to justify an unjustifiable war.

The neocons have had a hard on to do something like this ever since the Soviet Union went belly up. On 9-12, Rummy started with "We can use this to take care of Iraq." Hell, even Rush, Hannity and Bush's cabinet have changed directions and just keep saying what a bad man Saddam was whenever they are asked about reasons for going to war.

There are lot's of terrible despots in the world and we can't take care of them all. Hell, we can't even take care of the one at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and he's the most dangerous one in the world today.

Now, go away, kid. Ya bother me.

[westman]

66. Billy, Billy, Billy!

We all make our own choices, including the "facts" we accept as true. In our recent exchange, you referenced Hannity and Limbaugh several times--I didn't. Whose facts are distorted?

[LiberalFighter]

69. It wasn't about the 10,000 lives

That happened in 1991 NOT in 2003.

If those 10,000 lives were that important then Bush Daddy should had followed through with Desert Shield and he would had prevented the atrocities. In effect, Bush Daddy was responsible for the killing.

As for the quran there is no excuse for any destruction being committed by our troops for any reason.

[westman]

74. What?

What happened in 1991? I'm not sure I follow your response to my post.

[NickB79]

85. The US failed to give the promised support to the 1991 Iraqi uprising

The US promised various Iraqi resistance groups and Kurdish fighters who wanted to overthrow Saddam air support if they did the actual ground fighting. When these Iraqis rose up and attacked Saddam's forces in late 1991, after the Gulf War was ended, the US refused to come through on it's promise and let the Iraqis be slaughtered by Saddam's forces, reminescent of JFK's Bay of Pigs failure.

[westman]

90. Yes I know that.

That was the single biggest mistake the US made in Iraq.

But that's not what the previous poster was alliding to.

[LiberalFighter]

94. Yes it was what I was alluding too!!!!!!

[LiberalFighter]

70. Deleted

[Jazzgirl]

78. Why are you here if you support the repukes?

eom

[westman]

83. Why do you think I support them?

I support the military action in Iraq, as do many (most?) Democrats.
At least 2 1/2 of our presidential candidates do as well.

[arcane1]

36. if we kill tens of thousands more over there

is that worse?

[westman]

59. Don't understand your question.

What you've referred to is not happening.

[NickB79]

87. We haven't killed tens of thousands of civilians in Iraq?

Wow, thats odd, because that's even what US officials have estimated (10-20,000 civilian casualties from our bombing raids).

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LiberalFighter]

67. Why were those political enemies killed?

It all had to do with the shiites expecting Bush Daddy to depose Saddam back in 1991. When the shiites revolted against Saddam and Bush Daddy didn't follow through Saddam retaliated. And Saddam knew he could get away with it. There wasn't anything that indicated otherwise including when Rummy made his visit during Reagan's administration to tell Saddam that everything was okay.

[westman]

76. Which makes Saddam

the evil despot that I said he was! Thanks for the support.

[NickB79]

86. Did you miss the entire point of that?

WE, the US, let those Iraqis be killed! We promised them air support and then abandoned them! They never would have risen up against Saddam in the first place if we hadn't encouraged them, given them the idea they could have beaten him with the help of US airpower.

He may have been an evil despot, but he wouldn't have killed those Iraqis if we hadn't encouraged them to attack.

[westman]

91. If the police fail to patrol a dangerous neighborhood,

are they to be blamed for the actions of the enabled murderers?

No. Surely you see my point.

Pulling out was the biggest mistake the US made in Iraq. We're correcting that mistake now.

[LiberalFighter]

96. The problem wasn't not pulling out of Iraq in 1991

It was that we stopped when Iraq left Kuwait.
Schwarzkopf wanted to pursue Saddam but daddy bush terminated that choice.

[NickB79]

97. Not quite the correct analogy

A better one would be the police telling the neighborhoods that, if there ever is any trouble, the police will come help them, but then, when they dial 911, no police come to their aid and turn their heads while the criminals rape, murder and rob the residents. Then, the police ARE to blame for any actions of the criminals.

We PROMISED them air support, and then went back on our word. They wouldn't have rose up in the first place without our assurances we would help them. We started the whole chain of events that lead to their deaths. If we would have given them air support, maybe they would have won their freedom. If we had never promised them air support in the first place, there might have been a rebel army like the one in Afghanistan that helped us in our war there. But we chose the worst possible route, to lie to the Iraqis and let them be killed. Their culture does not easily forgive and forget; you can bet there are still many Iraqis angry about our actions 12 yrs ago and desiring revenge.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

98. I've run into this guy before and am embarassed I got sucked into

another "discussion" with him.

He's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Occulus]

105. oh, yes they are

do some law research, bud. If police intentionally refuse to patrol an area or intentionally let patrols in an area slip and there's a murder- say a child- you better believe the police are responsible.

It's a straw man anyway, but it's not even a good one.

Try harder.

[LiberalFighter]

95. And daddy bush supported Saddam by his actions

And don't forget Ambassador April Gaspie telling Saddam that the United States had "no opinion" with Iraq invading Kuwait.

[0007]

104. The U.S. knew Saddam Hussein was a murderer and a criminal,

before the U.S. seated Saddam with power. And the U.S. set back and watch Mr. Hussein kill and abuse his own folks without nary a word. How come? Now the U.S. screams bloody murder.

[JPace]

7. This seems to be a likely way for the terrorists

to get the masses to rise up against
American occupation. I am surprised
they have not done this before....
nothing upsets a Muslim as much as
trashing their religion in any way.

I expect to hear much more of this
happening in the future.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

8. Found this: US Raids Baghdad Mosque, Chopper Down In Northern Iraq

US armoured vehicles sealed off a large mosque in southwestern Baghdad on Thursday in an operation to arrest a leading Sunni Muslim cleric, witnesses said.

<snip>

The US military was unable to immediately confirm the operation, said to have begun at around 7:30 am (04:30 GMT), but under normal practices they do not enter mosques unless under fire or accompanied by Iraqi liaisons.

"American tanks and armoured personnel carriers forced their way through the front gate of the mosque, while helicopters flew overhead," said one worshipper. He said troops damaged property after they entered the 35-year-old holy building.

"They went directly into the mosque, violating its sanctity," he added.

Although the mangled front gate of the mosque appeared to have been freshly torn from its hinges, it was not possible to verify claims of internal damage to the building. Other worshippers said the raid had taken place because Sumaydah was wrongly suspected of fuelling insurgency in Iraq linked to tensions between Shia Muslims and minority Sunnis, from whose ranks former president Saddam Hussein hails.

"The Americans are wrong. All the people connected to this mosque are for the unification of Sunnis and Shias," one said.

More: http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php?article=89547&list=/home.php&

[SpiralHawk]

10. "A Mighty Fortress is Our Chimp"

He gets "special messages" from the "real God."

So, Onward Christian Soldiers, follow the Chimp-in-Chief* to "everlasting glory."**


* Ahem. Actually the Chimp-in-Chief and his sidekick "Bunker Dick" will be "well in the rear" as real soldiers like to say about those with suspect military histories. But Chimp and Dick are really "proud" of all you Mosque-messin good 'ol' boys out there mixing it up with the snipers and the sand fleas. Damn tootin.


** This offer good only for "true" believers, who forsake all common sense, free-will, and their basic humanity for the sake of a "true" (but subtle) demagogue.

[Sideways]

11. American Killed In Oman....In Oman?....Details Few But This Is Worrying

An American was killed in Oman on Wednesday. The media here is hush hush so who knows. Two Germans killed last month. I have never felt scared here but now I do.

I am moving to UAE in three weeks but this shit is disturbing. Oman is tightly in bed with the USA and very few Americans live here. I'm keeping close to home for the next few weeks.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

13. Stay low and safe, Mary. Get to a sane part of the world as soon as you

can... If you can find a sane part of the world today.

Keep us posted.

[leftchick]

42. is the UAE safer for Westerners Mary?

I hope so. Stay safe and Peace.... :)

[Judi Lynn]

12. The "terrorists" are ours

They started stomping into their mosques at the very first, looking for "evil doers" at prayer.

I wouldn't buy even a HINT it was contrived by Iraqiis to discredit us. Christ.

We ARE discredited already.

[BraveMan]

17. From CENTCOM

"The mission also netted 11 AK-47 assault rifles, five sticks of PE4 explosives, eight hand grenades, three packages of TNT, a case of blasting caps, 83 pounds of gunpowder. Also recovered was a 60 mm mortar tube, two rocket-propelled grenade launchers, a SA-7 missile, four computers with disks, assorted documents and two pictures of Saddam Hussein."

http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/news_release.asp?NewsRelease=20040106.txt

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

19. Centcom has been proven to be an unreliable source of information.

Just think Jessica Lynch.

[Robb]

21. Isaiah 9:6, huh?

;)

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

23. I have no idea what you are referring to here. You'll have to spell this

one out for me.
:-)

[BraveMan]

44. That is (was)

. . . a fairly well-armed house of worship, wouldn't you agree?

-snip-
"Over the last several months, the First Armoured Division in Baghdad has received numerous reports from local Iraqis that the Al-Tubul mosque had been used for criminal and terrorist activities," he (Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt) said.


"The Al-Tubul mosque was believed to have been a hub of anti-coalition and anti-Iraqi activities, with various cells using the mosque as a meeting location and weapons cache," Kimmitt said.
-snip-

From:http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=1514&u=/afp/20040102/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_us_raid_weapons_040102182500&printer=1

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

45. This coming from the same group who brought us the Rescue of Private Lynch

Sorry. Does not wash.

[Tuttle]

49. You see, Billy,

we're the only ones allowed to worship God 'n' guns...

them towel heads ain't permitted to pray in their funny way, to their funny god(s). All these lurkers got it RIGHT (if you know what I mean)!

Tut-tut

</sarcasm>

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

52. That seems to be the prevailing atitude. n/t

[dai]

50. Four computers

...with disks, no less? Strikes me as odd to include with all the weapons

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

51. Don't forget... THEY HAD TWO PICTURES OF SADDAM!!!!

Damn them!

[Tuttle]

82. you neab the infamous before and after SH?

I was wondering, how come they spread the "before and after shots" around so much but now, all we see is the before version guy???

Tut-tut

[NickB79]

57. Which amounts to about 0.000000001 percent of the weapons available

There are literally MILLIONS of tons of ordanance lying around in weapons depots scattered throughout Iraq. Rifles, ammo, explosives, RPGs, etc. We've barely secured half those depots, and most of the ones we have secured are guarded mainly by Iraqi recruits, many of whom aren't above taking a bribe to turn their eyes for a few min. And, even assuming we were able to somehow secure and destroy all these weapons and explosives, the borders are so porous that it wouldn't be any problem for smugglers to bring in an endless stream of replacement weapons.

I laugh when I see reports like this. It's like being proud of finding a penny on the ground when there are pennies everywhere though!

[karlschneider]

65. And a partridge in a pear tree.

I guess those are the dreaded WMDs, eh?
:grr:

[TeeYiYi]

75. OMG, I just saw your reply Karl. Oops . . .

. . . I swear I wasn't copying. :7 That post just really begged for the PIAPT snipe.

TYY :hi:

[TeeYiYi]

73. . . . and a partridge in a pear tree? Pssshht. Centcom. *eyes* .....n/t

TYY

[SwellGround]

22. Have you checked the facts?

The most reliable website in the Arab countries claims that terrorists were abusing the mosque. Check out this report...

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D31AF78F-BFDB-4C14-8D31-6FB08F8972C2.htm

[rodbarnett]

15. Aljazeera is reporting on it here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=295121

[demdave]

16. Baghdad mosque raid yields arms cache

US soldiers have seized a large cache of weapons in a raid on a Sunni mosque in southwestern Baghdad.

Three packages of TNT explosives, a 60 mm mortar tube, eight improvised grenades, bomb-making equipment, two rocket-propelled grenade launchers, 11 assault rifles and two bags of gunpowder were among the weapons recovered in the raid, he told reporters.

"Over the last several months, the First Armoured Division in Baghdad has received numerous reports from local Iraqis that the Al-Tubul mosque had been used for criminal and terrorist activities," he said.

"The Al-Tubul mosque was believed to have been a hub of anti-coalition and anti-Iraqi activities, with various cells using the mosque as a meeting location and weapons cache," Kimmitt said.


http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D31AF78F-BFDB-4C14-8D31-6FB08F8972C2.htm

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

18. Read the description and do the count from the picture....

Doesn't add up.

Unfortunately, I can put very little faith at all in reports from the American military spokesmen (in this case, Brigadier General Mark Kimmit). They have been lying and embellishing since the beginning (re: Lynch, WMD, nerve gasses, etc).

[SwellGround]

24. If we can't trust Aljazeera which confirms the story then who can we trust

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D31AF78F-BFDB-4C14-8D31-6FB08F8972C2.htm

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

25. Look at Al Jazeera's attribution...

GIGO (Garbage in, garbage out).

They are reporting what they were told by a Centcom spokesman. The same people who gave us the Lynch rescue.

[SwellGround]

29. I doubt we trashed a mosque for no reason

I guess we disagree on the ability of some mosques to be abused by terrorists. I also have faith in the boys and girls doing the heavy lifting over there and trust they really did find a rogue mosque. Sorry we disagree.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. The only reason why I may believe we had a reason

to do this is Iraqi history

Where do yuo think the Great Arab Revolt was organized at?

The mosques

Now what happened once the brits started doing this in the 1920s?

The place became even more of a hell for the occupation forces

Sorry to break this to you, but this is only more spiraling out of control.

[TeeYiYi]

79. Don't forget that Al Jazeera . . .

. . . has been firing its journalists and pulling down material deemed sensitive to the U.S. (two cartoons come to mind). They no longer pass the smell test. Look to jihadunspun.com for more accurate reporting.

TYY

[SwellGround]

84. jihadunspun.com for more accurate reporting???

They are too conservative for me...I use hamasrules.boom for the real news. :-)

[westman]

32. Come on, Billy!

You're giving the administration, the military, and the press FAR too much credit if you think that they can pull off such a coordinated disinformation campaign.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

33. Coordinated campaign? One guy talking to Al Jazeera?

It would be easy as hell to set up the small cache of arms they list. And then pass out a stock photo that doesn't match the description.

IMHO, the attitude this admin has about people will be their downfall. They think the world is populated by freepers who will believe everything they say.

[daleo]

38. Good catch

I don't know much about weaponry, but the numbers of items in the picture do not seem to correlate with the descriptions. Might it be a standard picture of a bunch of weapons that they trot out for these occasions?

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if a mosque was occasionally used by the resistance. Things like that happen in war.

[LiberalFighter]

71. Large cache of weapons?

That might be about what NRA supporters would have in their garage or basement.

[Occulus]

106. That pic doesn't show much.....

Not what they were claiming, anyway.

[SwellGround]

20. Was it this mosque that was being used for arms and terrorist activity?

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D31AF78F-BFDB-4C14-8D31-6FB08F8972C2.htm

One would think that a mosque is not the place for terrorist activity.

[Just Me]

43. How do you distinguish between "resistance" and "terrorism"?

Do you believe these people are responsible for 9/11? I think not. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong station.

Warring against a nation based upon a single dictator is not only stupid, it is wholly immoral and illegal.

We are immorally and illegally occupying another sovereign nation.

[Holly]

48. Where should insurgents

gather to plan their resistance. The mosque is one of their last safe havens from the invaders, until now. Next phase...holy war...and it's unwindable.

[SwellGround]

54. I guess we see it differently then

I consider the people terrorists that are blowing up the UN, resturants, police stations, mayors and other people trying to make Iraq a better place for all. Using a mosque to perform terrorist activities is against the religion practiced in the mosque.

[Holly]

63. You misunderstand

it's not a matter of you and I seeing differently, it's a matter of how the Iraqi's see things. We don't understand their culture, the coalition had no business invading their country. How and where they choose to plan their resistance isn't the issue....we must face fact...the Iraqi's are resisting the occupation. Finding weapons in the mosque is no surprise, unless your suggesting that the mosques are now controlled by terrorists...hmm...very unlikely .If the Iraqi's feel that hiding weapons inside the mosque is immoral, they will deal with the persons violating the sanctity of their institution. They are not children, and are capable of protecting their holy sites...If the Iraqi's support this type of activity within their mosque, then I submit to you that this is popular uprising. and not as you suggest confined to "terrorists".

[SwellGround]

68. No, I understand quite well

We just don't agree on how this is playing out. That's fine and healthy. The Iraqis are not a monolith and I'm sure many of them don't like the fact that outsiders (syria, iran, PA etc) are coming in and blowing up their police forces and other Iraqi infrastructure.

Not to worry...the good Iraqis with the US effort will finally make a democratic muslim nation and the burka crap will be a bygone.

[Judi Lynn]

72. What "burka crap?"

I've heard for AGES that Iraq was totally different from Afghanistan, not too many burqas!

(snip) I have a question: why is Dr. Kurtz using the word
‘veil’ in relation to Iraq? Very, very few females
wore veils or burqas prior to the occupation. Note
that I say ‘veil’ or ‘burqa’. If Dr. Kurtz meant the
general ‘hijab’ or headscarf worn on the hair by
millions of Muslim females instead of an actual ‘veil’
then he should have been more specific. While a ‘veil’
in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan is quite common, in
Iraq it speaks of extremism. It is uncommon because
the majority of moderate Muslim clerics believe it is
unnecessary. (snip)

http://www.casi.org.uk/discuss/2003/msg04473.html

This was just a fast grab, as I'm in a hurry. Anyone with more time to spend can come up with some terrific stuff on Iraq and "burqas."

[Jazzgirl]

80. Are you serious?

If you think that the US is gonna make "good little dems" out of the Iraqi people then you better take a good hard look at whats happening in Afghanistan. I guess I don't understand why you are here either if you feel shrub and co are doing the right thing.

<sniff sniff...do I smell freeper??>>

[SwellGround]

81. Normally I don't respond to pure bait

It's not shrub and co I feel are doing the right thing. America is not owned by shrub and co and America does things that don't need the approval of shrub and co. Are you aware of the number of dems that approved of this invasion? If not then just ask me. If I don't pass your subtle sniff test then recalibrate it.

[NickB79]

89. You really believe they'll be a democracy, huh?

"Not to worry...the good Iraqis with the US effort will finally make a democratic muslim nation and the burka crap will be a bygone."

Take a look at the demographics of Iraq. 60% of Iraqis are Shiite Muslims, the same hardline religious component of Islam that now rules Iran as a theocracy. You hold a general election and in Iraq will be looking very very similar to Iran, ie very little personal freedom, strict rule by the religious clerics, no tolerance of other religions or cultures. That assumes that the Sunni Muslims or the Kurds don't fight back and start a civil war.

Do you also realize that, before we invaded, Iraq was the most secular Muslim nation in the ME? People were free to worship whatever religion they wanted, and there were no laws requiring women to wear burkas (no idea where you got that from).

[Orangeone]

103. I don't consider

any of that terrorism. The Iraqis can do whatever they want to, it's their country.

[Terwilliger]

40. oh great...just let us turn this mess into a holy crusade

THAT ought to bring stability to the country!

If this is true or perceived as true, Iraqis are going to feel less and less affinity for people already down at the bottom of their friend list.

[DrBB]

53. 2 possibilities; no difference in outcome

A. Our guys went haywire and trashed a mosque out of anger, frustration, bigotry, whatever. A war crime.

Result: very bad for hearts/minds campaign, big propaganda weapon for anti-American forces.

B. Our guys acted in good faith. This was a place that harbored insurgents or materiel or both, or for some other reason a "legitimate" target.

Result: very bad for hearts/minds campaign, big propaganda weapon for anti-American forces.

Conclusion:

Don't go fucking around in foreign cultures you don't understand for reasons you're not clear about with no genuine international coalition or legitimacy and no clear-cut goals and exit strategy. You'll end up bogged down in a guerilla war in which all the strategic (i.e. political) advantages are on the other side and all choices are wrong.

[Judi Lynn]

55. Oh, no. We can't allow that.

God forbid these people should have weapons hidden from us, in their OWN country. No one's allowed to have weapons other than certain Americans.


Yes, it's the child-molesting David Koresh, back from the news headline graveyard. David wouldn't approve of Iraqiis hiding guns in their churches.

[SwellGround]

56. Most Muslims don't want their mosques used for terrorism

The creeps that are blowing up the police and other Iraqi citizens should be dealt with and should NEVER be allowed to abuse the mosques that many Iraqis respect for the good they are supposed to represent.

[uhhuh]

62. Do you know who they are?

The people who are opposing the occupation have been categorically declared to be Saddam Loyalists, foriegn terrorists, home grown terrorists, organized crime figures, revenge killers, and numerous other kinds of malcontents and evil doers.
Who are the creeps? How do we stop them if they are just opposing the occupation and are supported by the religious majority?

[SwellGround]

77. They are not supported by the religious majority

The minorty of terrorists are being imported by outside countries and have zilch to do with the freedom loving people of Iraq.

[NickB79]

88. And you know this how?

From what Faux news says?

Do you really believe that a few hundred imported terrorists are capable of coordinating 1000 ATTACKS ON US TROOPS PER MONTH (yes, that is the real number)! And do all this without support from local Iraqis? Where do these imported terrorists sleep, eat, hide from US patrols, obtain more ammo and explosives? Why aren't the "freedom loving people of Iraq" turning them over in droves if they really don't approve of the attacks being carried out by them? You can't carry out these kinds of attacks without a large amount of support from the local population to protect you from US searches. They have far from "zilch" do to with this.

[uhhuh]

101. Thanks nickb79

I was going to ask that very question.
I think right wing talking points are now being introduced intravenously.

[goforit]

64. CNN reports that our troops did something wrong???????

Did Karl Rove give them permission to report this????

[scarface2004]

93. i sell a new

my lai coming on!!

lt calley, the nation turns its lonely eyes to you koo koo ka choo!!!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

99. There has probably been a few My Lai's in Iraq already....

It's just a question as to when they are exposed.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

100. WHY DID THIS THREAD DRAW SO MANY FREEPS???? n/t

[lumpy]

102. They get their jollies

by infiltrating and disrupting threads. They offer nothing of value just retreading Bushco's distortion of the truth.

[saigon68]

107. HEY WHAT'S UP HERE TODAY

Looks like some parents are not keeping track of their children's computer useage today ???