Venezuela's Hugo Chavez Proposes Gas Pipeline to Cuba (Update2)

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Bloomberg

Venezuela's Hugo Chavez Proposes Gas Pipeline to Cuba (Update2)

By Steven Bodzin

Aug. 11 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuela President Hugo Chavez supports constructing a natural gas pipeline beneath the Caribbean to supply neighboring islands and Cuba, and possibly extending to Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula.

Chavez called for the Venezuela-to-Caribbean pipeline in a speech today to the PetroCaribe summit, a gathering in Caracas of energy ministers and heads of state from the region. The speech was broadcast on Venezuelan state television.

The proposal for what he called a ``Great Trans-Caribbean Gas Pipeline'' comes just two weeks after Chavez said his plan for a ``Great Gas Pipeline of the South'' was on hold. That $20 billion pipeline to Argentina through the Amazon rain forest had been ``frozen'' by opposition in Brazil, he said July 27.

The Caribbean pipeline would also supply Puerto Rico and Haiti, Chavez said. He said another way to supply the Caribbean would be to build a plant to regasify liquefied natural gas in Haiti, which could be ready in two years. Venezuela has no plants to liquefy natural gas and none under construction.



Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=ap.leIVCDUA8&refer=news

---

Is it me, or does that headline seem to overlook the fact Hugo Chavez promoted a pipeline which would go to NEIGHBORING ISLANDS, and possibly the YUCATAN PENINSULA, as well as Cuba?

You just don't get the right-wing, knee-jerk, mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging, short-attention span, foaming-at-the-mouth reaction if you refer to the complete truth of the matter, do you?

[pepperbear]

1. Someone in the "Secret office where they run everything" won't like this a bit.

Watch what happens to the WH's relationship with Chavez over the next several months. It'll be subtle.

[MADem]

3. What relationship? They have none. NT

[pepperbear]

6. it'll get worse....

they'll suddenly have one.

:hi:

[Common Sense Party]

2. Are there already pipelines BELOW the ocean floor?

I know they have stretched fiberoptics and other communications lines. But are pipelines already in operation in the world underwater?

It seems like that would be an engineering nightmare.

[MADem]

5. I suppose he'd rather just send the gas on its way rather than have to liquefy and then regasify...

It's an expensive proposition he's envisioning, though:

The Caribbean pipeline would also supply Puerto Rico and Haiti, Chavez said. He said another way to supply the Caribbean would be to build a plant to regasify liquefied natural gas in Haiti, which could be ready in two years. Venezuela has no plants to liquefy natural gas and none under construction.

The concept of a pipeline across the Caribbean once gained support from the World Bank, though it was opposed by the U.S. out of concern that the pipeline would interrupt the U.S.-led blockade of the Communist-governed island, Chavez said.

Venezuela has more than 150 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, according to Oil & Gas Journal. More than 90 percent of that can be extracted only by pumping crude oil.

At the summit, Chavez also proposed building an oil refinery in Guyana and urged the government of Dominica to accept his offer of a 10,000 barrel-a-day refinery, a project currently awaiting environmental analysis. He said Venezuela's restoration of the Cienfuegos refinery in Cuba will complete in November.

They want to do this in India, Pakistan and Iran as well: http://www.irna.com/en/news/view/menu-237/0702036470094651.htm

They aren't fans of the process in Ireland: http://www.gcmonitor.org/article.php?id=557

[billyoc]

8. The Gulf of Mexico is like a bowl of spaghetti with all of the pipelines

crisscrossing it. Thousands of them. :hi:

[CGowen]

10. here is a 4.5 MB pdf of the Gulf

http://www.gomr.mms.gov/homepg/lsesale/Visual1.pdf

[Common Sense Party]

20. Really? Going all the way across?

Or are they fairly close to shore?

I just didn't know there were trans-oceanic or trans-sea pipelines underground.

[CGowen]

9. Russia and Germany are building one

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4512472.stm

Work has begun on the construction of an ambitious gas pipeline project linking Russia and Germany via the Baltic Sea.

The link will deliver Russian gas to Germany - and eventually to other Western European nations - by 2010.

But the 1,200km (744 mile) pipeline is not without controversy.

[EFerrari]

4. LOL! They get more bang for their buck if they can put Chavez and Cuba

in the same headline. :)

[Vidar]

7. I seldom disagree with Chavez, but this is too risky a venture.

Aside from the immense engineering difficulties, this is just begging for clandestine hanky-panky by American submarines.

[RestoreGore]

11. What are his views on this planet's sustainability?

"The proposal for what he called a ``Great Trans-Caribbean Gas Pipeline'' comes just two weeks after Chavez said his plan for a ``Great Gas Pipeline of the South'' was on hold. That $20 billion pipeline to Argentina through the Amazon rain forest had been ``frozen'' by opposition in Brazil, he said July 27."

HANDS OFF the Amazon Rainforest.

[Judi Lynn]

12. A quick search provided this look immediately:

Opinions
by Derek Wall / April 8th 2007
Green Venezuela
Green Party Principal Speaker, Derek Wall, argues that capitalism is ecologically unsustainable and that Venezuela’s green policies should be applauded.


“One car each? Our planet won't stand that - that model of capitalism, extreme individualism and consumerist egotism. The destructive so-called developmentalism destroying the planet is, quite frankly, a thing of stupidity - una cosa de tontos.” -President Hugo Chavez
(snip)

Third, there is a green element. It is impressive to hear the president of a country whose main export is oil, explicitly arguing that ever increasing consumption is ecologically unsustainable. Ecological concern is central to the Venezuelan approach under Chavez.
(snip/)

http://21stcenturysocialism.com/article/green_venezuela_01456.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry, don't have time to spend looking for more. Try to find more about the subject before taking one impression from any article and using it to build an entire belief. DU'ers are really good at doing their homework. It distinguishes them from right-wingers. They actually learn about the subjects they discuss.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RestoreGore]

14. Here's some "homework"

http://www.rainforestportal.org/alerts/send.asp?id=amazon_pipeline

Action Alert: Massive Gas Pipeline to Pierce the Amazon
Project will devastate South America's rainforests, water and climate
By Rainforest Portal, a project of Ecological Internet - March 22, 2006

Caption: Despite the usual assurances, the construction and operation of the Camisea gas pipeline through Peru's rainforests has been a disaster (link)

Venezuela, Brazil and Argentina plan to build a massive natural gas pipeline of up to 9,000 km in length from Venezuela to Argentina through Brazil's Amazon rainforest. Construction of the pipeline would be the most ambitious physical infrastructure initiative in South America's history, costing up to $25 billion and taking up to seven years to build. The pipeline would pierce the heart of the Amazon and ensure its destruction as a large, operable whole. It would devastate rainforests, water resources, the climate and indigenous populations across a huge swathe of South America.

The pipeline would devastate the Amazon rainforest's environment. Large areas of pristine rainforests will be destroyed during construction, and new roads will open the rest for colonization by ranchers and loggers. Historically rainforest for 50 kilometers on each side of new roads are cleared within years of construction. The multitude of waterways traversing the Amazon will be polluted during construction and inevitable pipeline leaks. The pipeline will contribute to global warming through deforestation and the production of oil to access the gas.

The pipeline represents the most antiquated, primitive neo-liberal economic development policy which the region's governments rally against. And it is economically questionable. Both Brazil and Argentina have gas fields large enough to cover their own domestic demands. It is not clear that Venezuela has the capacity to maintain such a large steady supply of gas, nor that the gas could be offered at a competitive price given the huge investment required. Further, the project's six month schedule for preparation is highly unrealistic given that much smaller pipelines in Brazil have taken a decade to prepare and have been halted in court for years.

The similar existing Camisea gas pipeline through rainforests in Peru - which was touted as a model of sustainable development, environmental protection and respect for indigenous peoples - offers a cautionary tale of the damage caused by gas pipelines during construction and their operation. In three years of operation is has already experienced five major spills, severely damaging the environment and local communities. Indigenous communities have been devastated by disease, and water resources that they depend upon for drinking and fishing have been fouled.

The proposed pipeline is a major threat to the existence of the Amazon rainforest, as well as regional and global ecological sustainability. It would devastate the region's rainforests, water and climate; and the leaders of Brazil, Venezuela and Argentina must be called upon to scrap plans for its construction.

[1932]

16. How do we know that's a legitimate source of info and not an anti-progressive

website that is trying to turn environmentalists against Chavez?

[EFerrari]

25. I can call the VIO when they open in the morning. If it's a hit piece

they'll know.

[paulk]

28. well, you could go to their website and, with an open mind,

parse it with out assuming that everything negative said about Mr. Chavez is automatically a right wing plot.

Opposing the building of a pipeline through the middle of the Amazon rain forest doesn't exactly strike me as a right wing endeavor, quite the opposite, actually.

[RestoreGore]

29. Talk about ignorance

http://www.ecologicalinternet.org/campaigns/

Paranoid much? Or is your seeming obsession with the man overshadowing your ability to see the ISSUE at hand? It would not matter WHO proposed this pipeline, it would be opposed because it is the AMAZON that is the issue here and the pipeline proposed would be environmentally devastating to the ecosystems that live there.

[1932]

32. Read Chalmers Johnson's last thee books on American empire and John Perkins's

two books on being an economic hitman and you'll realize that that's modus operandi and not paranoia. My question should be the first anyone asks when the read a criticism of anti-neoliberalism.

[RestoreGore]

35. What I care about is the ENVIRONMENT

I don't care about those who love or hate Chavez or anyone else's POLITICAL views here and the link which I found through a search was posted here because it was against the pipeline which I AM as well. Read anything into that you like, because frankly I am tired of posting on this site where everything you post gets nothing but paranoid nasty responses. Some here are so into the political BS they can't literally see the forest for the trees when it comes to the sustainability of this planet. I don't care if it is Chavez, Bush, Brown, Harper, or ANY "leader" of ANY country be they right, left, middle or wherever, if they propose a project I believe will harm the environment I am going to speak out against it. The fact that you couldn't even focus on the environmental end of this is also then very telling for someone telling me what to read. So are you for such a pipeline through the Amazon rainforest? Because even Brazil which is also lead but a left leaning leader has put it on hold. Perhaps this then goes beyond your political paranoia to a MORAL reasoning. But I'll stop there because it seems that on this site to discuss any kind of MORAL reasoning involved with the environment seems to go nowehere. I am then done with this inquisition, but thanks for the "discussion."

[1932]

37. If you truly care about the environment...

...you shold read Larry Tye's biography of Edward Bernays, and focus on the chapter on how Bernays influenced America public opinion to support the Arbenz coup in 1954 because Arbenz was an anti-neoliberal who threatened the profits of United Fruit Company. You should read how Bernays's spin reached the pages of The Nation with stories like the one you've posted, because Bernays knew that lying to liberals about Arbenz on issues that liberals considered their priorities was the key to keeping Americans from supporting Arbenz.

Then you can ask yourself if the world and the environment is better off when governments have leaders who are complicit with the wealth-extraction and wealth-concentration policies of neoliblerals on Wall St and in Washington.

[Judi Lynn]

38. Had to see if I could locate something immediately about Edward Bernays, after seeing your post.

Here's a short video on Bernay's manipulation of American public perception on Arbenz and Guatemala, with footage of Nixon.

Howard Hunt was involved in the coup. Un-bleeping-believable. This indeed is looking like an old, old story by now, once you've seen the pattern they used so long ago is still in place.

Engineering of Consent: Guatemala Coup 1954 (around 5 minutes long)
http://balafria.wordpress.com/2007/05/02/engineering-of-consent-guatemala-coup-1954/

Thank you. Very, very interesting.

[RestoreGore]

30. Talk about ignorance

http://www.ecologicalinternet.org/campaigns/

Paranoid much? Or is your seeming obsession with the man overshadowing your ability to see the ISSUE at hand? It would not matter WHO proposed this pipeline, it would be opposed because it is the AMAZON that is the issue here and the pipeline proposed would be environmentally devastating to the ecosystems that live there.

[RestoreGore]

36. dupe

[leaninglib]

15. Venezuela and Cuba are not exactly known for their industrial/engineering capabilities.

This is surly a joke.

:rofl:

[1932]

17. Venezuela isn't known for their industrial/engineering capabilities?

Don't they have a mamoth steel processing industry, and isn't CITGO a giant oil drilling and refining industry?

[leaninglib]

18. Yes, and they were engineered by Americans and/or Europeans.

In fact, Sidor is a Luxembourg owned firm. But we all know how Chavez feels about the private property, so it is probably only a matter of time before he nationalizes them like he did the oil companies.

The more stuff Chavez takes over the worse off Venezuela will become. If you want to see what Venezuela will look like in a few years, take a look at Zimbabwe. It used to have a vibrant economy as well.

Mugabe and Chavez are both idiots who are causing their countries to rot from the inside out.

[Judi Lynn]

19. Maybe your utterly white Republican pResident will be able to pull off that successful

coup and assassination, and the American idiot, greed driven right-wing will be able to sleep nights, again, knowing that another country, which voted massively for its own popular leader, a country populated by huge numbers of poor, Indian, black, and mixed descent will be controlled utterly, AGAIN, by a few wealthy, slimey, nasty, and utterly smelly morally, repulsive European-descended assholes, just as it was before February 2, 1999, when Chavez was inaugurated.

Until that time, it's probably likely that Hugo Chavez will continue to act in the capacity for which a vast number of Venezuelan citizens elected him.

[nick303]

21. Checkmarks

(X) Racist remarks are OK if against white people.
(X) Chavez / Bush is an either/or decision, you can't be for both or against both
( ) Coherent, sensible post

[1932]

23. Why are liberals afraid to embarace Chavez?

(x) ignorance.


I wish people would just do some research and not be afraid to have a firmly-held and informed opinion.

[nick303]

24. I've done my research

I have my opinion. Disagreeing with you does not make me ignorant. Thanks.

[1932]

31. Let that knowledge shine.

Please don't stop at merely stating you have an informed opinion.

I look forward to reading some informed crticism.

[nick303]

33. RestoreGore and leaninglib have posted the information that supports my opinion

I do not see any point in my posting links to anywhere because you only want to see your side of the story. Given that someone has already posted a pretty straightforward article on the matter and you questioned whether it was anti-progressive propaganda leads me to believe that you are more or less brainwashed and would not be able to accept anything critical of Chavez, no matter who writes it nor the facts on the ground.

[1932]

34. Well, if you ever decide to provide any evidence supporting your claims...

...let me know. I'd love to see it.

[nick303]

39. Come to think of it, which claims were you referring to?

My first post was a couple of sarcastic remarks, pointing out the folly of the post I replied to. My evidence is right there, in post #19.

[EFerrari]

27. It's the power of the corporate media.

Before I actively started checking their bs, I didn't know what to think of Chavez. And the propagandists count on people not having the time or inclination to be active.

[1932]

22. What does Sidor have to do with anything?

Citgo has been a state industry for years. In your opinion what is the difference between Citgo when it was state-owned under the previous goverment and today?


And Zimbabwe never had an economy that worked for Zimbabweans. It had a stoking economy for European-owned agri-business when they were able to produce at low-cost because they were growing on cheaply-acquired land (acquired for the cost of some guns and bullets).

[EFerrari]

26. LOL!

:rofl: