Florida Child Murderer of Jessica Lunsford Sentenced to Death

[Hissyspit]

Source: MSNBC

Via Live coverage MSNBC

Convicted Lunsford killer sentenced to death
Man found guilty of kidnapping 9-year-old, raping her, burying her alive

INVERNESS, Fla. - A man who kidnapped a little girl from her bedroom, raped her and later buried her alive was sentenced to death Friday.

John Evander Couey, 49, who was found guilty of murdering 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford in February 2005, said earlier this week in a recorded jailhouse conversation with his aunt that he expected the decision and regretted his act.

“I kick myself in the butt a hundred times a day,” Couey said. “I just keep asking myself, why were you so stupid?”

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20426743/

[hlthe2b]

1. Admittedly, I haven't tracked this horrendous case closely...

but wasn't he sentenced to death quite some time ago? Is this a new trial? I'm confused...

[Hissyspit]

3. You're confusing two cases that occurred in Florida right around the same time. n/t

[Rhiannon12866]

5. No, this is breaking. The jury found him guilty and recommended the death penalty,

but it was up to the judge and he went with the jury. I have followed this since it was such a cute little kid and such a horrific crime, but the details were really painful to listen to. I can't see how her family sat through this...x(

[TrogL]

10. so not-cute kids get ignored - again?

I have followed this since it was such a cute little kid ...

[Rhiannon12866]

14. You're right, but you'll have to admit that this was a particularly horrific crime.

I had a very hard time listening to the details.x(

[TwilightGardener]

2. Hopefully Florida will be the first state to allow

"Death by Burial While Alive" as an execution method. Because that's exactly what this POS deserves.

[Ganja Ninja]

4. Exactly what he deserves the MF'ing SOB! n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

6. Fortunately the constitution forbids this sort of idiocy. nt.

[ProudDad]

11. 10 reasons to abolish the death penalty

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAFR010132004?open&of=ENG-375

1 - the death penalty violates the right to life.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) recognises each person’s right to life. Article 4 of the African Charter on Human and Peoples´ Rights (ACHPR) states that "human beings are inviolable. Every human being shall be entitled to respect for his life and the physical and moral integrity of his person." This view is reinforced by the existence of international and regional treaties providing for the abolition of the death penalty, notably the second optional protocol of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, adopted by the General Assembly of the United Nations in 1989.

2 - the death penalty is a cruel and inhuman death.

The UDHR categorically states that "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment." All forms of execution are inhuman. No government can guarantee a dignified and painless death to condemned prisoners, who also suffer psychological pain in the period between their sentence and execution.

3 - the death penalty has no dissuasive effect.

No scientific study has proved that the death penalty has a more dissuasive effect on crime than other punishments. The most recent investigation into the links of cause and effect between capital punishment and the murder rate, was conducted by the United Nations in 1988 and updated in 2002. It came to the following conclusion: "...it is not prudent to accept the hypothesis that capital punishment deters murder to a marginally greater extent than does the threat and application of the supposedly lesser punishment of life imprisonment."

4 - the death penalty is premeditated murder, demeans the state and makes society more violent.

By executing a person, the state commits a murder and shows the same readiness to use physical violence against its victim as the criminal. Moreover, studies have shown that the murder rate increases immediately after executions. Researchers have suggested that this increase is similar to that caused by other violent public events, such as massacres and assassinations.

5 - the death penalty is discriminatory in its application.

Throughout the world, the death penalty is disproportionately used against disadvantaged people. Some condemned prisoners from the most impoverished social classes would not have been sentenced to death if they were from wealthier sectors of society. In these cases, either the accused are less able to find their way through the maze of the judicial system (because of a lack of knowledge, confidence or financial means), or the system reflects the generally negative attitude of society and the powerful towards them. It has also been proved that certain criminals run a greater risk of being condemned to death if their victims come from higher social classes.

6 - the death penalty denies the capacity of people to mend their ways and become a better person.

Defenders of the death penalty consider that anyone sentenced to death is unable to mend their ways and could re-offend at any time if they are released. However, there are many examples of offenders who have been reintegrated and who have not re-offended. Amnesty International believes that the way to prevent re-offending is to review procedures for conditional release and the psychological monitoring of prisoners during detention, and under no circumstances to increase the number of executions. In addition, the death penalty removes any possibility for the condemned person to repent.

7 - the death penalty cannot provide social stability nor bring peace to the victims.

An execution cannot give the victim his or her life back nor ease the suffering felt by their family. Far from reducing the pain, the length of the trial and the appeal procedure often prolong the family’s suffering.

8 - the death penalty denies the fallibility of human institutions.

The risk of executing innocent people remains indissolubly linked to the use of the death penalty. Since 1973, 116 people condemned to death in the United States have been released after proof of their innocence has been established. Some of them have only just escaped execution, after having passed years on death row. These repeated judicial errors have been especially due to irregularities committed by prosecution or police officers, recourse to doubtful evidence, material information or confessions, or the incompetence of defence lawyers. Other prisoners have been sent to their deaths when serious doubts existed about their guilt.

9 - the death penalty is a collective punishment.

This punishment affects all the family, friends and those sympathising with the condemned person. The close relatives of an executed prisoner, who generally do not have anything to do with the crime, could feel, as a result of the death penalty, the same dreadful sense of loss as the victim’s parents felt at the death of their loved one.

10 - the death penalty goes against the religious and humanist values that are common to all humanity.

Human rights are universal, indivisible and interdependent. They are based on many traditions that can be found in all civilisations. All religions advocate clemency, compassion and forgiveness and it is on these values that Amnesty International bases its opposition to the death penalty.

[iamjoy]

17. Could Say Much The Same About Prison Sentences

especially Life Sentences.

1) A life in prison does not take a person's life in the literal sense, but it does deny them their rights to self determination. To a large extent I would have to say prison probably compromises a person's physical and moral integrity.

2) No one can guarantee anything, but prisoners are often denied dignity. They suffer throughout their sentence.

3) Long prison sentences don't seem to have much dissasive affect either

4) I don't know enough to dispute this one

5) Prison sentences are discriminatory in their application. Poor people and minorities get harsher sentences than rich white men.

6) Can one really become a better person in our current prison system, anyway? It's not really set up to rehabilitate.

7) Some say it does. If I remember correctly, Polly Klaus' step-father was pleased when her murderer received the death penalty.

8) Again, same could be said for long prison sentences, although at least the wrongly convicted person would be alive.

9) The families of the criminal suffer from long prison sentences too.

10) Most religions are so full of mixed messages, it is hard to say whether they are for or against the death penalty.

Mind you, I am not defending the death penalty, but many of these points Amnesty International brings up could be said about a long prison sentence too.

[ProudDad]

18. The 3 reasons that resonate most with me are

3 - the death penalty has no dissuasive effect.

No scientific study has proved that the death penalty has a more dissuasive effect on crime than other punishments. The most recent investigation into the links of cause and effect between capital punishment and the murder rate, was conducted by the United Nations in 1988 and updated in 2002. It came to the following conclusion: "...it is not prudent to accept the hypothesis that capital punishment deters murder to a marginally greater extent than does the threat and application of the supposedly lesser punishment of life imprisonment."

<-- You're correct, long prison sentences don't work either. We need to think harm reduction and rehabilitaion -->

4 - the death penalty is premeditated murder, demeans the state and makes society more violent.

By executing a person, the state commits a murder and shows the same readiness to use physical violence against its victim as the criminal. Moreover, studies have shown that the murder rate increases immediately after executions. Researchers have suggested that this increase is similar to that caused by other violent public events, such as massacres and assassinations.

<-- I do know about this one. I was in San Quentin when they were getting ready to commit state murder a few years back. I was appalled at how many inmates, nearly ALL of them, were justifying their own actions and predatory desires with what the state was preparing to do. "If the state can do it, I can do it." -->


6 - the death penalty denies the capacity of people to mend their ways and become a better person.

Defenders of the death penalty consider that anyone sentenced to death is unable to mend their ways and could re-offend at any time if they are released. However, there are many examples of offenders who have been reintegrated and who have not re-offended. Amnesty International believes that the way to prevent re-offending is to review procedures for conditional release and the psychological monitoring of prisoners during detention, and under no circumstances to increase the number of executions. In addition, the death penalty removes any possibility for the condemned person to repent.

<-- You're right again. The current prison/jail system MUST be significantly changed for society to get any safer. Check this out: http://www.afscstore.org/store/product_info.php?products_id=5195 "Beyond Prisons" The history of the U.S. system and how it must be changed... -->

<-- I would add that it denies society the gift of exercising forgiveness and promoting reconciliation -->

[idgiehkt]

40. on point #6 I would say Couey most probably does not qualify

it sounds like a bunch of naive claptrap that completely disregards the victim

as to what you added:

I would add that it denies society the gift of exercising forgiveness and promoting reconciliation -->

Why should society get a "gift" just because someone committed a violent crime against a child. Who expects to get a feel-good moment out of something like that?? Get real.

[ProudDad]

47. I expect society to act better and more humanely

than a person who committed such a violent crime against a child.

I guess you don't.

"it sounds like a bunch of naive claptrap that completely disregards the victim" <-- Oh, yeah, killing this guy's gonna help the victim... :sarcasm:

[idgiehkt]

50. I honestly don't have an opinion either way

But that particular argument is not convincing. Society includes predators like Couey as well as people you consider 'good'.

[johnhannahthree]

74. it will be more humane

I have very mixed feelings about the death penalty. But to say the inhumanity of killing a child, especially the way this one was killed, is somehow morally comparable to killing a child murderer doesn´t really help the anti-death penalty cause with anyone able to use even the most basic logic.

Her death was one of an innocent child. His will be one of a guilty child rapist and murderer. Most people draw a big distinction. That alone makes his execution more humane than her killing.

[ProudDad]

89. Murder is still Murder

Whether a retarded man does it an insane fit or the state does it in cold blood...

It's still murder...

Both are morally reprehensible...

[BellaB]

73. Time for me to chime in

#3 is false, it most DEFINETLY is dissuasive, once the individual is executed they will NEVER kill another person again.

#4 is incorrect as well. Do you mind providing ANY studies that show that murder rates increase after an execution? Also, your other comment "Researchers have suggested that this increase is similar to that caused by other violent public events, such as massacres and assassinations." again, care to provide any proof to this?

Also, while it may be premeditated, it is ONLY because it is a lawfully handed down sentence. Up to that point no punishment has been decided for the crime committed.

#6 Is pure unadulterated BS, nothing more than that. Most people that are convicted of murder are NOT given the death penalty, only those that meet the agravitating circumstances are eligible for the death penalty.

For society to get any safer, violent individuals need to be taken off of the streets PERIOD.

[ProudDad]

87. Take it up with Amnesty International

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAFR010132004?open&of=ENG-375

#3 Capital crime rates are higher in death penalty states than non-death penalty states. It does not dissuade OTHERS from doing the same or worse.

#4 All studies have shown that the crime rate DOES go up after a state murder. Go join the creation theory nuts and argue with the science.

#6 is CERTAINLY NOT bullshit -- most people who are sentenced to death display two major characteristics; poverty and/or colored skin...

"For society to get any safer, violent individuals need to be taken off of the streets PERIOD." <-- you gonna pay for another 10,000,000+ prison cells? How does your stupid idea, using more violence to cut down on violence, cut down on violence in society?

Insanity is trying the same shit over and over again expecting a different result.

The lock 'em up and throw away the key shit's been tried. You lose. Don't work!!!

[BellaB]

104. Ok then

Give me some links to prove #3 and #4, and not from amnesty international.

As to making society safer, yea I WILL pay for the additional prison cells if it means getting violent offenders OFF OF THE STREETS.
Seems to me if they are in PRISON they cannot reoffend, oh and just how many "poor persecuted inmates" have you talked too lately?

I happen to work in a jail and I see the same faces come back time and time again, often for the same crimes.

Give me a REALISTIC alternative and I will listen, does not mean I will agree, but I will at least listen to what your alternative is.

[johnhannahthree]

76. slogans

Anti-death penalty activists often ask why we kill people to show that killing is wrong. Well, in the case of kidnappers, we lock up people to show that locking people up is wrong. Or say a court fines someone for stealing. Aren´t we taking money away from people to show that taking people´s money is wrong?

Like you I´m not defending the death penalty per se. I just can´t understand why some otherwise logical people can´t differentiate a punishment handed out by society and the crime against society.

[Mad_Dem_X]

113. I totally agree

It is in cases such as this that I am in favor of the death penalty.

[rich1107]

7. A heinous crime

and while I understand the desire to see him receive the death penalty, I think it is worth noting that the guy should have been institutionalized long before he could commit something so horrible. His IQ is somewhere between 68 and 78 and if kept in a controlled environment he would never have had the chance to commit such an act. There large numbers of people out in the world just as ill-equipped for life in society, getting no help, that are time bombs waiting for the right set of circumstances to set them off.

[Alcibiades]

8. Low IQ is not a predictor of this type of crime

Bundy was also a murderous sexual predator, but he had above average IQ.

About 3% of the US is considered to be mentally retarded, with IQ scores lower than 70. The population clock estimate of the US population when I checked it was 302,688,263, so you're suggesting the institutionalization of about 9,080,647.56 people.

Defense attorneys trot out IQ scores in an effort to show that the defendant is not fully culpable, not deserving of the harshest penalty of law. We should recognize, however, that low IQ is not causal in this regard. I have a brother who is profoundly mentally retarded who would never hurt a fly, much less rape and bury a little girl alive. Sometimes evil people are stupid, but it does not make them less evil (nor, of course, will the death penalty in this case do anything to bring back that poor little girl).

[ProudDad]

9. Ah, another vote for state murder

Real predators love this shit.

They rationalize it to mean that they have the right to kill others 'cause the state does it.

Way to go -- another vote for insanity...


FYI: Amnesty International has already condemned the U.S. for its practice of executing the mentally ill. Way to go Florida! Keep us up there among the pariahs of the Earth...

[idgiehkt]

42. "real" predators?

Do you consider Couey to not be a "real" predator????

[ProudDad]

48. No, Couey is retarded and was temporarily insane (n/t)

[idgiehkt]

51. was he "temporarily insane" on his first conviction

sometime back in the 90's? And these are just the two times that he has been caught. Rationally one could argue (and someone here is) that predators are better off living because they get mistreated by the other inmates; doubtless his prison time if he got life would be a hell on earth. That doesn't make me feel any better, but then I am not a spiteful person.

[ProudDad]

63. "was he "temporarily insane" on his first conviction"

"sometime back in the 90's?"

Doubtless, he was...

[idgiehkt]

66. riiiiiiiight....

:eyes:

[Socal31]

103. So you are an MD?

And you examined him personally?


What a cop out....

[otherlander]

90. So then you think

that execution is never justified?
What if, just as an example, there was a death squad that terrorized the people of a country, and its leader was captured and imprisoned? If you knew beyond any doubt that he had organized hundreds of kidnappings and murders, would you consider it acceptable to execute him?

[ProudDad]

93. I think

execution is NEVER justified...

No matter who it is who's being executed...

Doesn't work, doesn't help, the corrosive power of state sanctioned cold blooded murder hurts society -- doesn't help society.

No way, never, for any reason.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

12. He kicks himself in the butt for being stupid...

I wonder if he has any concept of his cruelty, and what that poor child suffered.

I don't believe in the death penalty; and there are times when I'm glad to shout out the fact that I'm against it. This isn't one of them. I'm ashamed to say there's a monster inside me who will feel no regret when Couey is dead.

[shaniqua6392]

13. Good.

And before anyone flames away on the death penalty issue....read the transcripts of the sentencing hearing today. "She was buried alive in two trash bags after she was bound, raped and held for three days. She was clutching the stuffed animal that her father had won her the week before at the State Fair". Enough said. Good riddance. He does not deserve to live on the same planet as we do. Pedophiles should be put to death. There is no cure for pedophilia.

[ProudDad]

22. There's no cure for stupidity either

but many stupid people live full, safe and productive lives...

Seriously, there's no cure for many mental diseases but that doesn't mean we should execute everyone who has them, does it?

[aquart]

34. You're right. Let's reserve it

For rapists who bury their victims alive.

[shaniqua6392]

46. Just the ones that rape children

and then kill them in my opinion. You do not have to agree. I have two daughters and if that rat bastard had done that to one of my kids I would kill him myself. That is just the way it is. You can have your opinion and I can have mine. That's alright. That asshole said he was psychologically harmed by such things in his past as small ears!! People made fun of him for his small ears so he grew up to be a rapist pedophile murderer. Yeah...He had a low IQ. But not so low that he was unable to provide his defense attorneys with details of his poor little horrible childhood. He decided to take Jessica because his sister did not pay enough attention to him. Jessica's father wanted the justice for his daughter in the form of a death penalty. I am glad that is the way it turned out. I'm done now. Have a blessed evening. Peace.

[ProudDad]

49. You have the nerve to end your bloodthirsty rant

with "Have a blessed evening. Peace."

What a fully grown cognitive disconnect you're nurturing there...

[ProudDad]

94. If you caught a person in the act of doing this

"that rat bastard had done that to one of my kids I would kill him myself" <-- and if you had killed him to save your child or in the heat of the moment immediately after the heinous act, I'd defend your actions.

Everyone has a right to self defense and defense of their family...

Cold blooded state murder is NOT self defense...

Please don't expect me to spend my tax dollars and lend my name as a member of society to the cold blooded state murder of any person...

[WildEyedLiberal]

84. "Stupidity" doesn't typically result in raped and murdered children

Unlike pedophilia.

I can't believe you're actually defending compassion for pedophiles.

[ProudDad]

98. I defend compassion for every

even george (shrub) bush.

I'm human and sometimes fall short but I don't harbor feelings of hate or desire for vengeance toward anyone... To do so hurts me, not them...

[Norwood]

15. Good riddance

This crime was just plain evil, no other words describe it better than that. I can't imagine how much pain that poor little girl went through at the hands of this thing.

[ProudDad]

21. Ah, it's so easy to kill a "thing"

Hmmm, that may have been what was going through his head when he committed his insane act... :shrug:

[Norwood]

28. Probably was and he should and will be removed from this world for it

Nice job comparing me to a child murdering rapist though...that takes some doin.

[idgiehkt]

52. you are not alone

he's painted us all with that broad brush. I bet Mr. Lunsford was a "proud dad" as well.

[idgiehkt]

53. dupe

deleted

[ProudDad]

64. "that takes some doin"

Not really, same thought process...different day...

[idgiehkt]

67. well, is Couey mentally retarded or not?

Now you seem to be saying that Couey has the same intelligence level as a DU poster who clearly is very intelligent. Hmmm.

[ProudDad]

88. Bizarre 'logic'

isn't the exclusive province of the retarded...

The DU poster you're talking about clearly demonstrates that truth...

[nebula]

16. This guy raped and murdered a 9 year old

and some people still think he shouldn't get the death penalty?

what should we do with him then? put him on parole?

I don't know who's more insane -- Couey or those who think he should live.

[ProudDad]

19. The truly insane

are the ones who don't recognize that demanding his death makes one no better than he is...

[johnhannahthree]

75. again that makes no sense

To argue that the death of a child and the death of that child´s killer are equal is simply not logical. The child hadn´t murdered anyone, as far as I know. Maybe you know something we don´t. Like I said earlier, I´ve got real mixed feelings about the death penalty. But to say that killing her and killing him are morally equal is to be dismissive of the very the concepts of morality and ethics. If his life and hers are the same then there simply is no right and wrong. There simply is no good or evil. Now, one could argue that is the case. But if that is so and all we have is utilitarianism, then he should still be put to death simply because that is what society demands of the situation.

You are not going to win anyone to your side by arguing that executing a child killer is morally equal to the child killing itself, because that simply can´t be the case. There are logical and ethical reasons to be against the death penalty, but you are taking a very extreme position that isn´t supportable by ethics or logic.

[ProudDad]

91. I'm not stressing the immorality of the death penalty

as reason to abolish it.

I'm stressing the points that I placed in my post #18...

Go back and read it...

-----------------------

I am making the point that Mr. Couey probably ran through the same set of thought processes during his deviant acts as the bloodthirsty vengeance freeks on this board are displaying...

They are (presumably) not acting out on those sick thought processes.

That they don't act out their fantasies doesn't lessen their corrosive effect and the negative effect the system of vengeance has on society as a whole.

[ButterflyBlood]

72. We have life without parole sentences

It's the strictest sentence in my state. We don't have the death penalty, and I'm quite happy of that and wish to keep it that way.

[brentspeak]

20. Put this piece of garbage in the chair tomorrow, not several years from now.

[ProudDad]

23. Ah, the same thought process again

then you could put him into a garbage bag with his teddy bear and bury him, eh?

Oh, wait, that's been done...

[Thothmes]

58. several years

IMO that they should not have given Couey the death penalty. He will have several more years of life as the appeals process grinds forward at a glacial pace. If I were the judge (probably a reason to make me one) I would have sentenced him to life in prison, with the stipulation that he is to be assigned to the general prison population. I expect they would have him butchered faster than Smithfield can process a hog.

[mitchum]

24. Well, that still gives him several years to masturbate to his memories and fantasies

because that is what they do

[idgiehkt]

37. it certainly is.

very cogent point

[youngdem]

25. Hey, way to go. Let's execute a retarded man. That will bring Jessica back

I am so sick of the Old Testament bullshit in this country.

Isn't it clear that the government shouldn't be killing people?

Isn't it clear that executing retarded people is fucking barbaric?

Oh, but it was such a heinous crime! SO WHAT? You don't kill people. Period.

Let the fucker rot in jail. Doesn't anyone realize what fate awaits CHILD RAPISTS AND MURDERERS? This guy would suffer a fate far worse than death. Now, he will sit in a private cell with cable TV for fifteen years before we relieve him of his suffering.

[Evergreen Emerald]

26. like Ted Bundy did

[idgiehkt]

41. so you'd rather see him tortured in prison for decades?

Hmmm, interesting way to promote abolishing the death penalty.

[youngdem]

55. Just trying to appeal to the vengeful, Old Testament animal in the average Death Penalty supporter

I think the way our prisons allow abuse is inhuman and disgusting, but it is far better to lock a man up and have him abused by other inmates potentially than to have the state killing its own citizens, because the slippery slope on what constitutes a capital crime inevitably creeps. Already, since the death penalty was reinstated, the death penalty has been expanded to include such nonviolent crimes as growing a large amount of pot. (NOT kidding, look it up)

So, the argument I made was simply Machiavellian.

[superconnected]

27. The 2 minute video of the kids father, on that news link is awesome

He starts off looking slow and "country" and then makes some great points.

I apologize to southern-speaking people. This norther did stereo type this man, wrongly.

[idgiehkt]

38. at least you admit it

He's working class but that is not a region.

[SayWhatYo]

29. I say ditch the death penalty.

and instead replace it with a life that will be living hell for him. Dig holes and fill them back up all day, everyday, for the rest of his life(I know proudDad doesn't think that's right either) I don't think state sanctioned killing the right way to go. However, I also don't think that people who commit such crimes should have any sort of comforts available to them.

[ProudDad]

92. You're right

"Dig holes and fill them back up all day, everyday, for the rest of his life"

Bullshit...

Doesn't help society at all...

[cobalt1999]

30. I have no issue with the Death Penalty in these cases

I guess I'm not a good "bleeding heart liberal" when it comes to scum like this.

[bleedingheart]

31. I am with you...

in this case I think the bastard should be buried alive..

[w8liftinglady]

57. we had a young girl kidnapped,raped and murdered in our neighborhood

her name was Amber Hagermann,which led to "Amber alert".My oldest son played with Amber.
people who prey on children do need to be held to a different standard.Their crimes are not merciful,but usually preceded by rape and torture.The murderers fantacize about doing these crimes again.Their is no rehab for these guys,as opposed to the man who shoots someone in a bad drug deal.the death penalty is fair,and directs prison resources to those who can be rehabilitated.

[ProudDad]

62. A thoughtful post

"Their crimes are not merciful" <-- no crime is "merciful".

The question to answer is what kind of society do you wish to live in?

Do you want one that is merciful and just or one that institutionalizes the same deviant drives that this person displayed when he committed his heinous act?

We've already got the latter and it costs us billions and doesn't make us safer. Maybe it's time to try something better.

"the death penalty is fair,and directs prison resources to those who can be rehabilitated."

I would never be able to believe that the death penalty is fair for the reasons I've posted above however, it's not true that prison resources are being directed to those who can be rehabilitated.

That's not the core purpose of prisons and jails in this country. The prime directive is revenge, fear and torture. As long as that continues, things will get worse.

Things will get worse soon for all of us when all of those individuals who were locked up for overly long sentences with no rehabilitative efforts spent on them in the 80's and 90's begin popping out of the institutions.

Now THAT'S something to be scared about...

[idgiehkt]

69. so the alternative is to cast a "mentally retarded" man

out into the gp for him to be harassed and tortured to death eventually. Geez, that there is incredibly humane.

[ProudDad]

97. That appears to be your "alternative"

It's not mine.

Mine has been adequately detailed on this board.

If you learn something instead of making up lies about what I believe, buy this book...

http://www.afscstore.org/store/product_info.php?products_id=5195

[ecstatic]

101. It's a mercy killing. He is a rabid human being

and just like an out of control animal, he should be put to sleep to keep the public safe. He's mentally retarded? OK, fine, but will that make the next little girl any safer when he gets her alone?

[David Zephyr]

32. I don't like the death penalty. Never have. But this gets pretty close for me.

I can't even call him a maggot because it would insult maggots.

I have been against the death penalty my entire life, but I gotta tell you that when and if this creep is put down, there's a part of me that will like it.

[bleedingheart]

33. Mr. Lunsford gave a great speech...I can't imagine his pain

I think he is right..instead of cutting funds to prosecutors...they need to do more to keep these kind of monsters off the streets for good.

Personally I think pedophiles should get life sentences. I do not believe there is a cure for their depravity.

[Throd]

35. Your act wasn't "stupid", it was heinous and evil.

Rot in hell.

[minavasht]

36. Good!!!!

I just hope they do it soon.
Also, if I remember right he had 2 or 3 roommates that were in the trailer while he was raping the girl - I've been in trailers and there is no way they didn't hear her. Why are they left free?

[idgiehkt]

39. that Couey quote slays me

no doubt he's a serial who just got caught. That is where the regret comes from.

yep, there it is, from the link:

"Couey, already a convicted sex offender when he committed the crime, was arrested in Georgia and confessed to the killing."

[FooFootheSnoo]

43. this was such a terrible crime

I get tears in my eyes thinking about that poor little girl and what those last few days must have been like for her. They only lived an hour or so from me. He came into her home in the middle of the night and took her.

I agree with his execution, get this piece of shit off the planet. I don't care what the excuse is, if someone kills a little kid they need to die.

[OhioChick]

44. Good.

The SOB deserves it for what he did to that poor little girl.

[Nevernose]

45. Remember when Jeffrey Dahmer was murdered in prison?

His murder was wrong, both legally and morally. I did not, however, shed a tear.

I am against the death penalty across the board. It's wrong, and they shouldn't execute this Couey guy. But when they do, I'm not exactly going to complain about it.

[NYC Liberal]

54. Death is too easy for these assholes.

Life in prison is a much harsher sentence and it should be handed down to these people, not state murder.

[IndianaGreen]

56. The death penalty is barbaric!

Couey's crime was also barbaric.

The punishment fits the crime in this case.

[Wcross]

59. The death penalty is too good for this "person".

Life in prison would be a more just punishment. No special treatment, no segregation. Through him into the general population and let him do his life sentence.

[Pavulon]

60. Sorry, I harbor

no sense of mercy for the merciless. I hate people who kill and torture kids. If dna positive any person who rapes, or kills a kid should be fast tracked to the needle. No exceptions.

There is NO excuse for killing or raping children. None.

Hopefully the flip the order on the cocktail.

Pancuronium first, then patassium cloride, then the phenobarb if they get around to it at all.

[ProudDad]

61. The attitude you display in your post

is a bigger problem for society than what this person did... He's an aberration, a very rare mentally ill person. Yours is an attitude that's much more widespread and therefore, MUCH more dangerous to the rest of us.

That attitude is fodder for the bush's and cheney's and Osama's of the world -- they can use it, twist it, get you to fear others, think of other humans as "things" and do them harm; along with anyone standing within a 1/4 mile of them.

That's the attitude that is at the basis of military "training" -- hate the other, the enemy.

It's the attitude that results in the Mai Lais, Dachaus and Abu Graibs.

So wallow in your blood thirsty cesspool if you must. I know it brings you no relief and for that I'm sorry but not surprised...


An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
Mahatma Gandhi, (attributed)
Indian political and spiritual leader (1869 - 1948)


Revenge is a kind of wild justice, which the more man's nature runs to the more ought law to weed it out.
Sir Francis Bacon
English author, courtier, & philosopher (1561 - 1626)


In taking revenge, a man is but even with his enemy; but in passing it over, he is superior.
Sir Francis Bacon
English author, courtier, & philosopher (1561 - 1626)

Live well. It is the greatest revenge.
The Talmud

[idgiehkt]

68. you are ridiculous

you are going about this the wrong way and you don't even understand it. You are shaming people for having normal emotions about the rape, abuse and live burial of an innocent child. You are flinging nasty accusations everywhere on this thread, condemning other people here for what truly are normal emotional reactions to a crime this despicable. If the anti-death penalty camp expects to convert people to their side with these kinds of tactics, well, I suspect we can expect alot more folks to fry. If it weren't so tragicly misguided it would almost be funny...comparing folks on here to Osama and Cheney...good Christ.

[ProudDad]

78. Until people recognize

the corrosive effect of these "so-called normal emotions" some are displaying and how negatively they effect the overall situation and the public's safety if acted upon, the more the same shit will continue to occur...more "monsters" will be created...more murders by state and individual committed...

If the shoe fits, wear it...don't blame me for pointing out the obvious cognitive disconnect the bloodthirsty among you display...


The better angels of our nature should enable us to overcome those baser emotions that we've been programmed to feel. Some of us can do that...


On Edit: If being in the same company with Gandhi, Francis Bacon, The Talmud and, coincidently, Jesus Christ makes me "ridiculous" than I welcome the classification.

[Pavulon]

82. Quoting Lincoln and context..

There were hundreds of execution during the civil war recorded by both sides. People doing irreperable harm to the government were hanged. Normal people react with a natural response to things like this. Disgust. Rape murder on a child is pretty much the most disgusting thing possible.

I can empathize with the family and the child, and have no problem with the person responsible paying for their choice with their life.

I do not express a position on this, just that it is quite clear that situations do arise where killing a person is the logical outcome to a problem.

[WildEyedLiberal]

85. Comparing YOURSELF to Gandhi and Christ? How arrogant can you get?

You're not going to "open ANYONE'S eyes" by arrogantly comparing yourself to Gandhi and Christ and telling everyone else that "people like them" are responsible for My Lai and the Holocaust. Your self-righteousness is suffocating, off-putting, offensive, and far more harmful to your "cause" than you will ever be able to perceive, because you are clearly so convinced of your own holiness and virtue that you really believe you are incapable of fault or poor judgment.

You probably aren't even capable of grasping the irony of preaching about "dehumanizing" convicted child rapists while simultaneously calling other people bloodthirsty and barbaric and comparing them to Nazis.

[ProudDad]

96. You appear to have a problem

with reading and comprehending English.

Further discussion with you appears fruitless...


Your homework is to go back and try to re-read my posts. Try to comprehend them this time.

There will be another quiz at the end of the semester...

[WildEyedLiberal]

102. I have a problem with arrogant, snotty, rude, blathering self-righteousness

Which means I have a problem with YOU.

You're not trying to convince anyone of anything in this thread - you're too busy asserting your moral superiority and insulting, dehumanizing, and mocking everyone who disagrees with you.

Discussion with you was ALWAYS fruitless because you're just another blustering, self-righteous fanatic so convinced of his own purity that he has absolutely no problem denigrating everyone else - I just thought I'd point out how badly you were hurting your cause, in case you wanted to modify your approach, be less of an aggressively confrontational asshole, and actually try to argue your point without childish ad hominem attacks and insults.

But I can see that you care far more about puffing up your chest and pretending that you're a paragon of virtue than you do about the death penalty, so, by all means: carry on, you little armchair Gandhi. You're a legend in your own mind.

[mitchum]

106. Well said, WildEyedLiberal...

and it needed to be said.
I believe you are 100% correct about the saintly grandstanding of that particular poster

[ProudDad]

108. You obviously didn't do your homework

:)

Seriously, I don't really want to be snarky...

It's just that I've seen up close and personal what the corrosive, violent, revenge filled thought processes lead to...

Check out my post #107 for a more "rational" discussion of this issue...

Thanks...

[Pavulon]

70. The lifelong destructive effect

of rape and abuse are quite real. My post is quite concise. I harbor hate to no one other than these people. Really. I can understand killing a man for money or drugs. Obviously wrong actions.

Rape and abuse are not one off crimes. They are much more common than you think. Wife works in medicine and sees plenty of workups on kids as well as women. Some involving significant violence. Plenty enough to people who are desensitized to everything sick.

There are lots of competent people who choose to rape kids. It is usually pled down to some lower crime, indecent liberties, but it is rape. Not talking about 18 year old kid with a 15 year old.

I am talking about pre teen victims.

There is no justification for this behavior. Murders can justify killing over money, turf, a woman (or man). There is no reason a man can ever present to justify sex with a 10 year old. Ever.

They made that choice. They could have chosen to request commitment, or other help, they could have hanged themself or pulled the trigger on a shotgun with their big toe. All better choices than raping a child. Never mind the murder. The rape is enough, it is destructive.

This has nothing to do with bush, the military, or any other political issue. It is universally wrong in every book you quoted. From my personal experience with the military I can tell you I never was trained to hate, the only time I left the us was to stop other people from killing each other. The requirement to survive is not the same as a child abusers motives.

I fully understand the impact of the death penalty for them. I have no problem with the state carrying out that sentence for crimes of this type.

[ProudDad]

80. I would expect you to justify murder

it helps you to justify state murder...

"Murders can justify killing over money, turf, a woman (or man)"

but it's really fucking strange...

And who the FUCK is trying to justify what this man did? Not I?

I'm trying to point out to the ignorant among you WHY demanding the state to perform the SAME SORT OF ACT that he did is counter-productive.

Too bad you don't "get it".

-----

I don't know what military you were in but in the U.S. Navy I was being programmed to be a "professional murderer". I short circuited the programming and resigned.

-----

As for this person's "motives", he obviously has what Kurt Vonnegut would call "bad chemicals" running around in his brain, he's retarded and mentally ill. He didn't CHOOSE to be retarded or deviant but you act as if he did.

YOU should know better...

[Pavulon]

81. You are a bit off

I did not justify murder, only point out its motives , many times, fall within different motives that a person who rapes a child.

I learned how to drive a truck, be bored here and abroad, and got a free, but interrupted education. Not a lot of professional murders in the nc national guard. Lots of normal people with jobs.

And yes even though I went through the same basic as everyone else manage to go through my days without shooting people.

Seems like everyone is retarded these days when facing the needle. He raped, tortured, and killed a child. He is dead no matter where he goes.

I am generally against the death penalty.

But again in this case, knowing full well what it means, have no problem with the state carrying out the sentence.

What is the difference, I could say put him behind bars in a supermax in a soundproof room and see how long before he hangs himself.

[ProudDad]

95. That too

"put him behind bars in a supermax in a soundproof room" should be abolished.

If you knew the kind of people those fucking places are creating you'd really have nightmares. You think Couey's bad?

most of those guys in supermax are going to get out someday...and then you'll see something!

[ProudDad]

99. "I am generally against the death penalty."

Is that anything like being "generally pregnant?"


See one main problem with the death penalty is that it's entirely subjective. It's usually carried out against the poor and/or people of color.

There's no direct correlation between the exercise of state sanctioned cold blooded murder and the "crime" its supposed to punish.

Those are not the main reasons I'm against it but you may resonate with them...

[cubs4life]

105. I believe I missed what punishment you think Couey

should get for the crime he committed. What do you think is the proper response in pedophile child/rape/murder cases?

I understand the reasons behind eliminating the death penalty, but I must ask you, what would be your reaction if it was your child that was raped and murdered?

As human beings, I believe it is important to recognize that our first reaction to the horrific crime committed by this man is to wish him eliminated from the Earth as quickly as possible. People shouldn't be berated for having these feelings, in fact, I think having such feelings toward individuals that would engage in such horrific behavior makes us human.

I must admit that I have great difficulty understanding all the empathy for murderers like Couey by the anti-death penalty crowd. The candlelight vigils gall me in particular. Where are the candlelight vigils for the victims? What did the victims of death-row inmates do to deserve their "executions?" Perhaps my interpretation of your posts on this matter isn't entirely correct but it seems as if you care more about people that are sentenced to die than their victims. If I am mis-characterizing the anti-death penalty movement please explain how the movement sees the victims of crimes where a death sentence was handed down. I am asking in an effort to understand, not to flame.

[ProudDad]

107. I will try to answer in that same spirit

"I am asking in an effort to understand, not to flame"

If it happened to my child or grandchild my immediate reaction would be the one programmed into me from the earliest years of living in this violent society -- to want his death, preferably at my hands.

After a while, the rational centers in my brain would kick in. I would realize again that it would NOT bring my child or grandchild back, would not ease my pain but rather that holding on to those emotions would corrode my spirit.

I have already posted the details of the immorality and futility of the death penalty.

I have already posted the details of the counter-productive nature of the system of torture and degradation that is institutionalized in the criminal-injustice system and jails and prisons and how they CREATE people like Couey and the two who killed that family recently.

I suppose I could be accused of "berating" some people who've posted their irrational, bloodthirsty reactions to this easily demonized individual. My point in those posts however was that those are the same kinds of emotions, the same thought processes, that have been programmed into us by this violent society and that are also entirely operative in the minds of most people who commit these kinds of acts during the commission of those acts and in the process leading up to the commission of those acts.

I have tried to point out that the act of objectifying the "other", "Them" vs "Us" and activating those emotions is the process that tyrants like Hitler, Stalin and bush have used to get us to commit their atrocities for them.

I am also trying to make the point that we can choose to rise above these baser impulses and act in ways that enhance our collective safety and well being instead of acting in the same manner as those we are programmed to hate.

Until society (which means each individual) grows out of these violent impulses, learns to control them in favor of more positive, more productive actions, the same cycle of violence, reaction and more violence will continue.

My position is ENTIRELY pragmatic. What's been tried over the centuries has obviously not worked. What's been tried in this country over the last 30 years has DEFINITELY not worked.

It's time to try something else in this country, something that has a better chance to work...

"I think having such feelings toward individuals that would engage in such horrific behavior makes us human"

If this is true, I have NO hope for humanity... I prefer to believe that such sick, counter-productive wallowing in base, destructive, corrosive emotions is not a natural state for human beings...that we can rise above them...

My desire for Couey would be that he be removed from society and treated humanely for the rest of his life. That would show that we as a society are better than him.

To participate in the cold blooded murder of this sick individual would be to participate in an act that's no better than the one he committed.

Not in MY name!

[superconnected]

109. well, you're right.

I like you would reach for the dp first and then I calm down and I want a civilized society. To me a civilized society doesn't kill people.

[ProudDad]

110. For another discussion of this issue

From: SD to Execute 1st Prisoner in 60 Years

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2906087&mesg_id=2916880

[Nutmegger]

111. I stand with you ProudDad

Some just don't get it. I do, and am thankful for your posts.

:applause:

[ProudDad]

65. Isn't it ironic

that "Jessica's law" would have had no bearing on or "prevented" her killing? :shrug:

[johnhannahthree]

77. but it very likely will prevent killings

[ProudDad]

79. It hasn't yet (n/t)

[Beausoir]

71. Good. Au Revoir, scum of the earth.

[Laurier]

83. I am not a death penalty proponent but

in this case, even I would make an exception.

[Faygo Kid]

112. If there were ever a case justifying the death penalty, this is it

I still am not in favor of the state taking a life, particularly as the state is George W. Bush. Remember his glee at some of the awful Texas executions? Still, this guy is a waste of oxygen. If they ever put him in the general prison population, that would be the end of him anyway. Intellectually I oppose the death penalty. Emotionally I will save my pity for the little girl suffering that horrendous and unspeakable fate and her family.

[BreweryYardRat]

86. Goodbye and good riddance.

He deserves it. Filthy animal.

[MrSlayer]

100. As it should be.

It's too bad he won't get what he really deserves.