'Blasphemous' balls anger Afghans

[bluedigger]

Source: BBC News

A demonstration has been held in south- east Afghanistan accusing US troops of insulting Islam after they distributed footballs bearing the name of Allah.

The balls showed the Saudi Arabian flag which features the Koranic declaration of faith...

...The US military said the idea had been to give something for Afghan children to enjoy and they did not realise it would cause offence.

Afghan MP Mirwais Yasini said: "To have a verse of the Koran on something you kick with your foot would be an insult in any Muslim country around the world."

A spokeswoman for the US forces in Afghanistan said they made "significant efforts to work with local leaders, mullahs and elders to respect their culture" and distributing the footballs was an effort to give a gift the Afghan children would enjoy.

"Unfortunately," she added, "there was something on those footballs we didn't immediately understand to be offensive and we regret that as we do not want to offend."


Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6964564.stm

---

The phrase "couldn't poor piss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel" comes immediately to mind.

Do we have ANY Muslim consultants on our side?

Just one?

[cureautismnow]

1. Our mere presence on their soil...

...should be offensive to them all.

[Richard D]

2. Amazing.

Not to mention that footballs are made of pig skin.

[Jackpine Radical]

6. First, these are soccer balls, not American-style footballs.

Second, I doubt that even American footballs are made of pigskin anymore.

Regardless, I never cease to be amazed at the cultural cluelessness of the Americans representing us to other societies.

[madrchsod]

13. i have never seen an american made soccer ball

since i started coaching youth soccer in 1983. most were from pakistan or china and or from other third world country.

[youngdem]

17. Not true. They are leather with a rubber bladder and have been for over 130 years.

from the answerbag:

The main drawback of a pig's bladder was that inflating it by way of the obvious nozzle was too grotty for words. Still, it was an improvement over what the English traditionally regard as the original football, namely the noggin of an unsuccessful Danish invader. If you were offended by the aesthetics of this you could always stuff a leather casing with hay or cork shavings or the like, but such balls lacked zip.

Happily for the sensibilities of modern youth, pig's bladders faded from the scene not long after intercollegiate football began in 1869. One account indicates rubber bladders were being used in 1871 and they were probably around long before that, Charles Goodyear having patented vulcanization in 1844.


http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/4428


What's further, these were soccer balls, not 'footballs' in the American sense.

[Richard D]

25. Oops

Thanks for the history lesson.

[rodeodance]

3. When i read the headline I thought it was those other 'balls"

[donsu]

4. they probably did it on purpose

that's their kind of humor in the religious wars

[Jackpine Radical]

7. The only argument I can make against your conjecture is that

I believe they're too stupid to think up something like this by themselves. That would imply that they would have to know something about the culture--for example, at least knowing the meaning of the phrase on the Saudi flag.

[donsu]

15. true - (I was being snide)

nt

[Kali]

5. !

:wtf: is WRONG with us?

[DemBones DemBones]

8. If they don't want Allah's name on something that

is kicked, why do they put it on a flag? Somebody might burn a Saudi Arabian flag as a protest, after all.

I think we shouldn't be too critical of the troops who were only trying to give toys to Afghan kids, which was a good idea. It obviously never occurred to anyone to ask what those Arabic words on the Saudi Arabian flag were. I wouldn't have thought Muslims would put the name of Allah on a flag, would you?

Where were the footballs made? China, perhaps? Or some other country trying to set us up for a major PR disaster. . .

[madrchsod]

14. try pakistan and china.

that is where all the cheaper soccer balls are made. i have never seen an american made soccer ball in my 20 some years of coaching youth soccer

[DemBones DemBones]

19. So my suspicion about China was right, but

it would seem more likely that they'd have gotten the balls from Pakistan, since it's right next door.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

24. Yes, placing the name of God on flags and on walls is common

as calligraphy is the main form of decoration in Muslim countries. The phrase on the Saudi flag is more than just the name of God, but is the entire Confession of Faith (Shahada) which is the First Pillar of Islam. It was placed on the Saudi flag because Saudi Arabia is the home of the holy cities of Mecca and Medina. Iraq under Saddam also had the Arabic name for God on their banner.

It never occurred to anyone to ask what the Arabic words were? I KNEW what they were from the time I was 8 years old and looked at flags in my Compton's Encyclopedia. Even told there what the words meant. Sorry, but not knowing is inexcusable. Besides, don't they have Arabic translators with them? THEY would have been able to tell them what it meant.

[phillysuse]

58. They fired all the Arabic translators because they

were gay.

This is probably something Karen Hughes thought up to win hearts and minds.

[JerseygirlCT]

28. Which brings up another question:

why are we distributing balls with a Saudi flag?

Good grief, haven't they done enough harm themselves? The sort of radical Islam that AQ represents was born in SA, nurtured there, and learned all its military acumen from us in Afghanistan.

We never learn, do we?

[NYC]

46. Why not blank soccer balls?

Why not plain old, blank, unmarked soccer balls without advertising and/or promotion of any kind?

What was the point of giving Saudi Arabian flag soccer balls to people in Afghanistan?

[JerseygirlCT]

50. Yup, that's what I'm wondering

Doesn't it seem strange? I could see an Afghan flag, perhaps. But Saudi?

I'm smelling more of the all-too-cozy relationship between Bush and the utterly corrupt Saudi regime.

[NYC]

61. Bargain basement sale of leftovers?

See post #40 for a picture of the soccer ball. Flags of many nations.

Perhaps these were left over from some World Soccer event. That doesn't excuse it. We spends billions or trillions on the military; we can afford a few blank soccer balls.

[JerseygirlCT]

73. Ah... I see. Still, I agree with you - how much could blank ones have cost? nt

[Joe Bacon]

9. They're doing what Hagee and his goons want

Hagee wants ANYTHING that will piss Muslims off because he WANTS Armageddon.

He's gonna get the shock of his life when Israel is counternuked when we bomb Iran and Jesus pulls a no show.

[ohio2007]

10. These are the same people who see the name allah on fish,Burger King deserts ,inside a sliced

tomato and
hear "Allah" in the roar of lions.
I believe the Taliban banned soccer btw.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

26. No, this would be offensive to all Muslims

even those of us who don't see the name of God in the things you mentioned. Do you think a Christian would enjoy kicking a soccer ball with John 3:16 on it? Or the Niacean Creed?

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

37. I'm certainly glad you are not a member of our diplomatic corps

Guess what? Islam is not all one sect, with everyone behaving in the same manner. But, just as in any faith, there are certain things you don't do. I don't think any Christian would take kindly on anyone taking down a cross from their church and kicking it around, or a Catholic would smile if you put a picture of the Blessed Virgin on a soccer ball.


As to your citations--No, this is not news to me, and if you had read threads here about the Malaysian cartoons, you would have read my posts saying that Muslims in the area should have agreed with the Christians at these being offensive, as Jesus is revered as a prophet in Islam.

You may not know it, but there is a struggle within Islam between the progressive/liberal sects and the Wahhabists and other fundamentalists. Actions such as the US has taken only strengthen the Wahhabists and undermine the work of the liberals, who are trying to build bridges and show that Muslims and the Western world can live side by side in peace.

[ohio2007]

40. not familiar with the story are you ?

This is what the fuss is all about.
The Saudi Arabian flag is shown among other national flags


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6964564.stm
duhhhh...

dig deeper before knee jerking a reply
;)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

41. Did you bother to read further down on this very thread?

I stated very clearly that I knew this was referring to the Saudi flag. My responses to your previous post were about your statement "Islam should grow up", which is not a phrase I believe diplomats would use (I take that back-Bush's diplomats would say that and worse-like all Muslims should convert to Christianity!). I also was commenting on the link to the Malay newspaper incident.

Before implying that anyone hasn't done their homework, kindly read the entire thread.

[OzarkDem]

64. It doesn't look offensive

It looks like an attempt at multi-culturalism.

Let's bring our troops home so we don't offend them anymore and let them resolve their own problems.

We need to stop letting the wealthy mideast nations treat us like hired help. Let them pay for their own defense.

[ohio2007]

78. This pic may look offensive to them

look close, pay attention to detail

What flag on the ball would they really be offended by ?

this ball issue is a whole lot of meaningless banter in an attempt to spark a juvenile behavior action.

[knitter4democracy]

80. The foot isn't dirty to us, though.

I think that's the crux of the problem, not that the verse was there but what would happen to it. I've seen balls with Bible verses on them as well as pencils that will be sharpened and used up and all sorts of things. It's not a problem for Christians (but a symptom of the merchandizing of the faith, a whole 'nother rant).

I still think they should've figured that out or asked someone if they'd be okay.

[progressoid]

82. How about sucking on the cross?

http://www.christiandollarstore.com/recrshsu.html

[madrchsod]

11. well i bet some of them were made in pakistan

and i bet there are thousands being used in muslim countries around the world.

[DemBones DemBones]

12. You know, assuming that our troops did this deliberately

is an insult to all the troops. No doubt there are assholes in the military. Show me any group that doesn't have its share of assholes. But most people who serve are pretty decent.

Not many Americans read Arabic. It's not taught in boot camp or even OTC.

Why don't we believe that this was an honest mistake? Unfortunate but not malicious.

To trash the military like this just reinforces the stereotype that liberals are anti-military.

[donsu]

16. speaking only for myself - I'm anti military - any and all military

always have been, always will be

[DemBones DemBones]

21. So you don't believe in having a military for defense?

I don't believe in starting wars but I think that we would be taken over by China rather quickly if we didn't have a military. If we keep our military pinned down in Afghanistan and Iraq, we may also be taken over. You wouldn't care to live under Chinese rule, would you? Or North Korean?

[5446]

33. Anti-military?

Just remember, its the military that's composed of people who've voluntarily enlisted their lives to defend your right to bad mouth them.

You may not like when they're used in wars of aggression, and you may feel that all war is a waste, but to flagrantly discount the sacrifices so many men and women have made for you and I is pathetic.

And un-American.

I disagree with what they're currently doing, but I love them for being brave enough to do what I'm not brave enough for, to be willing to die for country and cause.

[DemBones DemBones]

36. Nobody appreciates the military except in times like WWII.

My dad was career military and we military "brats" experienced a lot of prejudice all our lives. Every military town is dependent for a large amount of its business and taxes on military families but civilians look down on the military.

Landlords won't rent to military families, employers won't hire military wives, and kids are always being taunted by civilian kids who spout anti-military garbage their parents have said.

[maxsolomon]

51. tautologies

first, i don't need an agressive & disproportionately sized military to defend my right to "bad mouth" the military industrial complex, of which volunteer soldiers willingly participate for a (crappy) paycheck. NO ONE IS ATTACKING OUR CONSTITUTION EXCEPT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.

radical islamic fundamentalists could give a shit whether we have free speech. they perceive the USA as an agressive imperial power out to kill all muslims. the fact that they're delusional doesn't matter; they are acting on their irrational faith as sure as GWB is acting on his irrational faith.

i'm "brave" enough to be in the military, but i believe those that think they're fighting for country & cause ARE BEING LIED TO.

read & learn:

http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

[Phrogman]

77. The US military does not give an American citizen the right to speak his mind...

the constitution does that, the military's job is to protect that documents promise.

[GliderGuider]

18. a plug for Fair World Sports -- fair trade balls

There's a local guy named Dave Hall who manufactures fair trade, child-labour-free sports balls. Proceeds go to support youth related projects in poor and war-affected countries.

If anyone out there has contacts with the bozos who pulled this one, or of you're in the market for sports balls yourself, please point them to http://yfocus.ncf.ca/fairtrade/">Fair World Sports.

When you buy Fair Trade Certified Sports Balls -

* You get top quality, hand stitched, long lasting sports balls, including soccer balls, volleyballs, beach volleyballs, rugby balls, soft balls and baseballs. (ed: They've recently added basketballs to their product line.)
* The price is competitive with part of the proceeds used to help the people who make the balls.
* The workers receive a decent wage and enjoy better than average working conditions.
* There are no children under 15 employed, they can go to school.
* Most balls are no longer made of leather, which helps eliminate another dangerous type of work where children are often employed.
* Children who work, have limited hours so that schooling is unaffected.
* Any profit will be used to send school and sports supplies and equipment to war-torn countries like Sierra Leone, where sports and education are important tools in building a culture of peace.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

20. Even when I was in grade school

and a Christian with no information about Islam, I knew what was on the Saudi flag.

Would these bozos have put a picture of Jesus or a Bible verse on a soccer ball to be passed out in the US?

[DemBones DemBones]

22. How did you come to know that?

Really, I'm curious. Did you read atlases or something?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

30. I read the encyclopedia

Compton's Encyclopedia, to be exact. I really liked the flag section and started looking at it before I could read. My mother would tell me what the different symbols on the flag meant by reading the material.

[DemBones DemBones]

35. Interesting. I read the encyclopedia a lot, too,

but it's been many years since I studied flags and countries. Saudi Arabia's flag may have been different, or it may not have existed as a country. A lot of countries I read about as a child are now other countries.

You must have been born to be Sufi. :-)

[msongs]

23. yes! look at all the stuff with religious overtones. Candles for jesus anyone? :-) nt

[JerseygirlCT]

29. Only if it had a corporate logo as well nt

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[INDIA]

54. Because Christians vote Repuke. Duh. Muslims don't.

That should sum up the reason for the hypocricy. Cheers.

[Drunken Irishman]

56. Good point. Though most Muslims are very conservative.

And were Republican up until Bush's global war on terror. Me thinks once the war is over, they'll return to being very conservative Republicans. Because, like the right-wing Christians, they favor radical religious law over freedom.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

57. First of all, the balls were given to Afghanis

who have no control over what Saudi Arabia puts on their flag. But the US had a choice as to whether or not include the SA flag on the ball or not. Kindly remember that Muslim countries are not all alike, and are not all theocracies--look at Turkey, which is a secular state.

Look at it this way--in 1920, how would the Irish have felt if they had been given soccer balls colored orange, or, worse yet, displayed the Cross of St. George?

And now to your last paragraph--Why is the Shahada on the Saudi Arabian flag? I think it is because SA is the home of the holy cities of Mecca and Medina, and that they chose to show they are a Muslim state by writing out the words rather than simply flying a simple green banner, as Lybia does, or placing a star and crescent, or just a crescent, on their flag, which you see in the flags of Turkey and Pakistan. Why would I "support" such a thing? Because, as an American, I don't think it is any of my darned business what a sovereign country uses as their flag. As for the US flag, at one time there were not one but THREE crosses in the canton of our flag-the Cross of St. George, the Cross of St. Andrew, and the Cross of St. Patrick. This was the Grand Union Flag, which was flown before the advent of the stars and stripes. I believe it still may be flown in places where there are colonial re-enactments done.

Speaking only for myself, I think theocracies generally make poor governments. I am for separation of church and state. That being said, I am also for getting our nose out of other countries, especially when we attempt to steal their natural resources and impose our culture on them.

[Drunken Irishman]

59. Look at the ball, it's a bunch of flags...

It's not just ONE flag. I could see your point if it were just the Saudi flag, but it is not. It's a flag of many nations, for whatever reason, I do not know. We don't know who made the ball, or why the flags are on there. I don't see why there is such an uproar over something so stupid. It's a freaking soccer ball with a bunch of nation flags on there. Man, don't we have more things to bitch about than this? I'm more upset about the fact Afghanistan is turning back into an authoritarian nation, ran by radical right-wing reactionist scumbags.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

62. Afghanistan is turning back because Bush has allowed it to happen

As for the ball, yes, I've seen it. I know it is flags. But if your title is a hint to either your heritage or nationality, surely you know what a commotion a symbol can mean--like a Union Jack worn in Belfast in a Catholic neighborhood during The Troubles, or merely wearing the wrong color.

[Drunken Irishman]

63. And I don't condone flipping out about it, either.

I wouldn't flip out if I had a soccer ball that had the flag of Northern Ireland on it, either.

But we can at least agree Bush is the reason Afghanistan has taken a turn for the worse.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

65. Just curious

I didn't know Northern Ireland had its own flag. As a part of the UK, I thought it was the Union Jack.

[Drunken Irishman]

66. Yeah, it does.

[Henny Penny]

67. It is fortunate that you are not the kind to "flip out" over these little details

because that ain't the Northern Ireland flag. It is the provincial flag of Ulster...

Just a minor detail....

[Drunken Irishman]

69. Minor detail or not...it's still a flag.

And Ulster is Northern Ireland.

But the point still stands, I don't see the big deal here.

[Henny Penny]

71. mmm... I would suggest that a certain level of cultural

awareness when in a war zone is probably a good idea.

And btw Ulster is not the same as Northern Ireland, but that is a debate for another day.

[Drunken Irishman]

72. heh

I can see cultural awareness if it was a ball with only the Saudi flag on it. But it appears many nation flags are on that ball.

[Henny Penny]

74. The Afghanis are proably not interested in the flags issue,

it is the fact that the Muslim declaration of faith was printed on an item designed to be kicked about. If you were occupied by a foreign power you might see such an action as a deliberate insult too, even if it was not intended as such.

I know the US army is a large organisation with a lot of red tape and someone is quite likely to have simply ordered a lot of footballs and been unaware of the pending faux pas, but every mistake like this puts their soldiers lives at greater risk.

It pays to give things a little thought.

[Drunken Irishman]

76. Thought yes...

However let's be serious here, if soldiers lives are at risk, they're overreacting. You should not kill over something so stupid.

[JerseygirlCT]

27. We are so embarrassingly culturally ignorant.

It's really amazing that our ideas of plastering sayings and advertisements on every square inch available has infected us to the point that we simply assume everyone else operates the same way.

Couldn't they find someone to ask about this first who has some knowledge of Afghan and Muslim culture?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

31. It's not like they would have to look all that hard

There are plenty of Muslims in the US that would have explained the basics of Muslim culture to them.

The cultural insensitivity of the US is appalling. Ramming one's own cultural views down the throats of people of another culture doesn't win friends-it creates enemies. And when you realize that Muslims in Afghanistan and Pakistan and Iran who are trying to build bridges with the West are persecuted by the right-wingers in their countries, you nearly cry at the stupidity of our people over there. Their actions play right into the hands of the fundamentalists and weaken and marginalize those very people we should be supporting!

[JerseygirlCT]

32. Yup. It's a terrible disease we've got. nt

[fujiyama]

43. Often times Americans are culturally ignorant

but in this case, it seems to be an innocent mistake.

If you take a look at the ball, the Saudi flag was one among many.

It's just one of those things that should have gone through another expert. Viewing this in the proper context I don't think this was done maliciously.

[Honeycombe8]

38. The military didn't even ASK a muslim about it beforehand? Amazing. nt

[yurbud]

39. Bushies hope to provoke them so they have an excuse to attack Iran

[daleo]

44. Was the U.S. flag on this ball, too?

I thought the U.S. flag wasn't supposed to be used for "kicking around". Not only that, but given the geometry of a soccer ball it would have to be in the shape of a pentagon - that doesn't seem very respectful either.

[Drunken Irishman]

47. I believe it was.

Though I'm not 100% sure, since I can't see every flag on the ball.



I see the Italian flag in the left corner. Next to that is the Japan flag. To the right of that is the French flag, then the British flag. I believe under that is the flag of Togo, though not 100% sure. To the left of that is Germany's flag. I'm not sure about the flag that is left of the German flag, but it does kinda look like Costa Rica's. To the left of that, under the Italian flag, looks like South Korea's flag. And of course in the middle is the Saudi Arabia flag.

I don't see a problem here. It appears they have a bunch of nations on this ball. It's not just Arab states, either.

[daleo]

48. A lot of American conservatives get riled up about flag etiquette

Technically, I don't think the flag is supposed to be on products. I don't care much about such things, but it seems a bit hypocritical for the military to use the flag this way.

I presume the list of countries on this ball is meant to represent the countries that have contributed to the Afghanistan war, so I would think the U.S. and Canada are on the other side of the ball (among others).

[Drunken Irishman]

49. Not necessarily.

I had a soccer ball when I was a kid that had a bunch of nation flags on it. I believe it was from the 1990 FIFA World Cup.

[daleo]

52. Yeah, maybe they are surplus from a tournament

The news reports really ought to explain these things - it is an important bit of the context for the story.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

55. the problem is not the flag,but the words on the flag

which are the Shahada, or Profession of Faith. It would have been more diplomatic to either have a plain green field with the sword or leave the SA flag off the ball.

[Igel]

68. There's something not said.

And it's allowing people to read into that "not said" bit what they want.

"Saudi Arabia has complained to the World Cup's ruling body in the past about the use of its flag on footballs."

Now, why is the World Cup relevant here at all. We didn't read, "Saudi Arabia has complained to the Russian national team in the past about the use of its flag on footballs" or "Saudi Arabia has complained to Rwandi about the use of its flag on their soccer balls." No. We read that it was the World Cup that complaints were referred to. It's relevant.

How could this complaint be relevant? If they were World Cup soccer balls, if they were bought from or designed by the World Cup folk. In other worlds, sounds like somebody ordered a mass of soccer balls from the multicultural experts in soccer, and relied on expert information.

It may be stupid. But most people don't bother to worry about the Shehada unless they're Muslims, any more than the average Meccan can recite the Nicene Creed in Latin.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

75. That's fine

but if a person is selling or donating a product to someone, it is wise to make sure that the customer can use it. Doesn't matter, really, what Saudi Arabia said as much as what the Afghani people said.

Look at it this way--say the mayor of a city decides to win some good PR with the voters. He donates a caseload of Jello to a Jewish Senior Citizen Center. Now, Jello has no problem being used by an insitution, and has even made institutional sized boxes for use in schools, nursing homes, and senior centers, and it is this size the mayor has donated. But there is a big problem-Jello is not kosher, and the JSCC is insulted and incensed. Most folks would agree that the mayor did the wrong thing by not finding out this little bit of information. It may be stupid to the average Joe, but it isn't to the devout Jew, and I don't blame them for being upset. Same thing with these soccer balls. The point of giving them to the Afghanis was to promote good will, and because of lack of checking on things like this, we blew it--again.

[IsItJustMe]

45. Sounds like when the pResidents initialially labeled the invasion as a crusade. We really don't

don't have a fricken cultural clue in this country.

[rocktivity]

53. Am I to believe that a football with Jesus' face and a Bible verse on it

would not be offensive to the the American forces? I have a feeling there's an ulterior motive to this.

:eyes:
rocknation

[LadyAziz]

60. Where is the Saudi outrage?

are any of their top officials commenting on this matter?

I wonder whose grand idea this was?

They should have given them those black and white footballs instead and the military should hire some translators.

[IndianaGreen]

79. Saudi Arabia has complained to World Soccer Federation about the balls

according to the BBC news account.

Some displayed flags from countries all over the world, including Saudi Arabia, which features the shahada, one of the five pillars of Islam - the declaration of faith.

The words, which include the name of Allah, are revered, and Muslims are very sensitive about where and how they can be used.

Saudi Arabia has complained to the World Cup's ruling body in the past about the use of its flag on footballs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6964564.stm

[Henny Penny]

70. I think it is interesting that the footballs were to be given to

local children presumably to build up trust etc, but they " were dropped from a helicopter in Khost province." Seems rather impersonal, and I have to say if I was an Afghan and saw something being dropped from a helicopter I'd be pretty suspicious.

But perhaps its normal for the helicopters to drop food or other items...

[Pachamama]

81. Like everything with this administration, they never think of consulting w/ others who may know

something on a subject before going ahead with it....

We are just making so many friends out there, aren't we???