Edwards: Americans should sacrifice their SUVs

[whopis01]

Source: Associated Press

Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards told a labor group he would ask Americans to make a big sacrifice: their sport utility vehicles.

The former North Carolina senator told a forum by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Lake Buena Vista, Florida, yesterday he thinks Americans are willing to sacrifice.

Edwards says Americans should be asked to drive more fuel efficient vehicles. He says he would ask them to give up SUVs.

Edwards got a standing ovation when he said weapons and equipment used by America's military needs to be made in the United States. He says tanks and ammunition for M16 rifles are being made in other countries.



Read more: http://www.wlos.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.nc/22b7034c-www.wlos.com.shtml

[Buzz Clik]

1. Keep SUVs under CAFE; otherwise, the concern is passenger miles per gallon.

Driving a tiny two-seater or a squished 4-seater won't get the soccer team to the field -- or many families to school.

Moderation in all things...

[jayfish]

3. Yeah, Beause There Are No Alternatives To SUV's But Soda Cans.

:eyes:

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2007&make=Audi&model=A4%20Avant&trimid=-1
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/overview.aspx?year=2007&make=Subaru&model=Legacy%20Wagon
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2008&make=Subaru&model=Outback&trimid=-1


Jay

[ClassWarrior]

4. My thought exactly.

NGU.

[Buzz Clik]

10. You know, it's this kind of snarky bullshit that keeps the environmental movement in the mud.

Rather than trying to understand what I was trying to say, you immediately assume I'm a big SUV fan.

Thanks for the links, Ace. I'll file them under "M" for meaningless.

[jayfish]

21. Okie Dokie

I'll make sure that's in my epitaph. ..."the death of the environmental movement was all his fault". The links were meaningless huh? Roomy cars with AWD and decent gas mileage? I didn't think you were a "big SUV fan", I just thought your information flawed and gave you some alternatives between SUV and econobox. Based on your response though, I've changed my mind. You must big a "big SUV fan".

Jay

On Edit, More Meaningless links:

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2007&make=Chrysler&model=Pacifica&trimid=-1
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2007&make=Saab&model=9-5%20SportCombi&trimid=-1
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2007&make=Volvo&model=V50&trimid=-1

[Catch22Dem]

74. Not really impressed

I understand what you're trying to do, but Volvo, Audi, and Saab are out of a lot of people's price range, and Pacifica gets SHIT gas mileage. Not sure how that one got added to the list.

On the flip-side, there are a few hybrid suv alternatives now from Escape, Mariner, etc... Better choices IMO.

[jayfish]

108. The Point Is That There...

is something available in every price-range, with all the creature comforts that gets better gas millage than a full-size SUV. The Pacifica was added for the eventual complaint that Subaru's etc (even though they are wagons) have small cargo spaces. I'm not really trying to do much of anything. It just pisses me off that for people who prize their SUV's the only other possible option they saw in the world was a Brilliance BS6.

Jay

[Tesha]

6. Minivans do though. And better in most ways than SUVs.

> Driving a tiny two-seater or a squished 4-seater won't
> get the soccer team to the field -- or many families
> to school.

Minivans (and, gasp, station wagons) do though. And better
in most ways than SUVs. More interior volume, better fuel
economy, better safety and better crash-compatibility
with other vehicles on the road.

Tesha

[Buzz Clik]

11. Agreed. Minivans are superior to SUVs in many ways.

They are considered cars, not trucks (as SUVs have been) so CAFE designations have never been an issue for minivans.

Some of the newest SUVs, though, are pretty reasonable machines -- better mileage, less size, etc.

Neither SUVs nor minivans should be considered primary vehicles; if you drive either one a single-passenger car, the "passenger miles per gallon" goes right in the toilet. Even half full of passengers, however, and you are back in the reasonable gas economy mode.

[calimary]

23. Besides, they usually use the lower, less expensive grade of gasoline.

Our minivan has had a lot of use schlepping my kid's band around, WITH all their equipment.

[NoGOPZone]

32. I've had both

I love my minivan and would never go back to the SUV. The only things the SUV was better for was towing and off road capability, neither of which is a need for me now. If most people who 'need' SUVs got over the image problem associated with minivans, they'd also make the switch.

[roseBudd]

91. I speed past SUVS in knee deep snow in my 95 Subaru Legacy wagon because I

can without rolling over

[JerseygirlCT]

101. My old Subaru could get through anything, too. I miss that

But I have to say, despite their weird ad campaign about how wonderful their plant is, their mileage isn't anything special. I'd think their demographic would demand good mileage, but it doesn't seem to be a priority with them.

I do usually find the trucks and SUVs flying by me in bad weather. What they don't seem to realize is that while they can get going better than your average sedan, they can't stop any better in bad weather.

[Tesha]

114. We're on our third Audi Quattro now...

> I do usually find the trucks and SUVs flying by me in bad weather.
> What they don't seem to realize is that while they can get going
> better than your average sedan, they can't stop any better in
> bad weather.

We're on our third Audi Quattro now and have had that very
same experience. People just don't understand that the laws
of physics *ALWAYS* apply and stopping requires traction too.

Tesha

[wordpix]

50. SUVs should be considered the TRUCKS they are---they should not be allowed on lanes, parkways

and other places where trucks aren't allowed.

[Buzz Clik]

60. ? Not sure I understand. You want them to be treated as 18-wheelers?

I think if they were simply treated as huge friggin' passenger cars and put under CAFE, that the would solve many problems.

[wordpix]

65. I agree with the CAFE standards but am also saying that people get "passes" with SUVs

Here in the NE, the "no trucks allowed" parkways and and lanes on highways are clogged with SUVs, which are built on truck chassis. So a pickup truck that has the same chassis cannot go on a parkway like the Merritt in CT but SUVs can.

If these SUVs were treated like trucks and people could not drive them on the parkways or the "no truck" lanes on the NJ Tpk and elsewhere, they'd think twice about buying them.

I agree with the CAFE , absolutely.

[Buzz Clik]

87. Seriously? A pickup cannot go in the parkways? I suddenly agree with you.

Friggin' SUV owners get the benefits of both trucks and passenger cars.

[northzax]

136. um, the restrictions on the Merritt are for commercial vehicles

not trucks, per se. If you have a pickup with a regular registration (instead of a commercial one) you are allowed. technically, you can't drive a Ford Focus on the Merritt if you are using it for commercial purposes (like delivering a Pizza or something) you can't drive a HEARSE on the Merritt, unless you are not actually transporting a corpse. Seriously. it's no a size thing, it's a commercial thing, for the most part.

[Beaverhausen]

68. There have been 'families' a lot longer than there have been SUVs - and how many SUV drivers...

...have to transport a soccer team?

Most SUV drivers I know have no kids, nor do they do any "sport" driving.

[Buzz Clik]

88. We all have different experiences. I don't know any SUV drivers who don't have families.

Personally, I would not own one of the larger SUVs. If I were back in the transport the family mode (we had a bunch of kids), I'd be in another minivan.

[NickB79]

96. Seriously? Most of my friends with SUV's don't have kids

My best friend and his wife had a Mercedes ML-430, but have no kids. His dad has a Hummer H2. His brother-in-law just bought a Tahoe last year. His cousin bought a Nissan Armada last year as well. My mom has a Ford Escape. Another friend has a Nissan Murano, but is a single mother with only one kid so far. My brother has a Tahoe, and only one kid. Most of the SUV's I see around the Twin Cities area usually have only one or two passengers at a time. Most of my coworkers, on the other hand, drive minivans because they're all union-employed, working-class men and women with 2-3 kids at home.

[JerseygirlCT]

99. And raise those CAFE standards!

Challenge automakers to rise to the needs of the environment. Make it necessary that they do so, and they will.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

145. This whole lifestyle of carting soccer teams around

is hardly inevitable or natural.

It's the lifestyle of people who fell for the land developers' propaganda (and in all too many cases, white flight racism) about enjoying a rural lifestyle and ended up in Strip Mall Land with no way for their kids to get around except in a parental SUV.

Oh, and the whole idea of every child being expected to play organized team sports is a recent development.

Most suburbanites live on safe streets, in cul de sacs even. The kids would get more real exercise playing pick-up games with the other kids in the neighborhood.

If parents stopped carting kids to organized activities constantly, you know what would happen?

1) The kids would be more relaxed

2) The parents would have more time to themselves

3) The kids would probably get outside more (especially if the parents told them, "No TV or computer time till you've played outside for an hour") and run around, play imaginative games (if they still know how), and develop emotional skills negotiating with one another.

[beberocks]

2. Yes! Edwards has my vote!

I don't mind mini vans or "real" trucks (trucks meant for hauling stuff). But get those gas guzzling behemoths (ie Hummers) off the road! Hummers and the other huge SUVs aren't good for anything except wasting gas and intimidating other drivers. I'm sick and tired of having to park next to an SUV that tried (and failed) to squeeze itself into a "compact" parking spot.

[rmgarrette64]

47. He doesn't have mine

Sorry, but this is yet another example of some one using environmental concerns. It's a call for everyone else to make a sacrifice. Sen. Edwards, I'll believe you give a darn about the environment when I hear you call for limits to housing floor space per person, or limits in how many commercial jet rides a given person can take per year.

If you're not calling for curbing any waste that actually has an impact on you, don't waste my time.

R. Garrett

[Raine]

140. Same here

I'm not impressed by Edwards dumping on SUVs, he really sticks his neck out on that one...NOT. I want to hear him call for real sacrific and I want it to start with his lifestyle.

[notadmblnd]

5. I'd gladly give mine up

I bought it because I figured if you can't beat them, join them. It's top of the line and paid for, but what sort of economy car can I carry a big double bass in?

[Tesha]

7. Any Minivan will fit your double bass. Most station wagons too! (NT)

[Buzz Clik]

13. Most station wagons (e.g., Subaru Legacy) have frustratingly small cargo areas.

They're great for carrying luggage to the airport or groceries. But when you've got something with some real size, you've got a big challenge. Getting a single bicycle in a Legacy is possible (if you lower the seat and remove the front wheel), but two bikes are nearly impossible. No idea about a double bass, but those dudes are huge.

[jgraz]

22. Shit, my 97 Civic hatchback will take a bass

You don't need a truck to haul one stand-up bass around.

[Bake]

38. Maybe with the neck and headstock bouncing off the windshield

Or out the passenger window. That's not very helpful if you've got another passenger going to the gig with his/her instrument as well.

I suggest making trucks/SUVs come under the same CAFE standards as cars. If they get the same mileage, who cares whether it's a station wagon or an SUV?

Bake

[notadmblnd]

29. Mini vans ans station wagons aren't exactly economy class

are they?

[Tesha]

51. Some are, some aren't. (NT)

[Beaverhausen]

66. Really! I mean, no one played or transported double basses until SUVs were created

:eyes:

[notadmblnd]

72. No, I imagine they were put in the back of pickup trucks

which are gas guzzlers too.

[JVS]

153. Vans (not Mini, but full vans) are just as bad with gas as SUVs

[KansDem]

98. I used to carry my double bass in a VW bug...

Took out the passenger seat and sat the bass down in that space with the neck and scroll laying on the back of the rear seat. Whenever I had a date, I'd put the seat back in...

Of course, that was a long time ago.

[JerseygirlCT]

102. My VW has an amazingly big trunk. It's really remarkable how

much you can get in there!

In fact, more room in there than there was in my Forester's back.

[Nevernose]

107. You could try a car rack

http://www.rackattack.com/

I once transported everything from a full drum kit to kayaks on a '73 Toyota Corolla. If you have it installed properly and secure your load, the things are perfectly safe. A lot of people do worry about accidents, but won't your stuff get messed up in a car accident anyway?

[AndyA]

8. I currently support Edwards, but I call hypocrisy on this.

First of all, this statement is coming from a man whose family lives in a house that is extravagantly large for their needs. Edwards says he makes no apologies for this, which is fine. But when he starts telling me to give up my SUV, and he has a house large enough for 10 Brady Bunch families, I take issue with that.

First of all, when I bought my SUV I got a good deal on it.

I do not like driving or riding in little imported tuna can cars that get squished in accidents. I read a recent report that said you are more likely to die in a small car if in an accident. Seems rather obvious, but this is yet another reason to have a larger car. They are safer, period.

We do use the SUV for hauling things from time to time, and I do car pool and have multiple passengers frequently, so in this case I feel having an SUV is warranted. I don't have a Hummer, Escalade, Navigator, etc., which do seem a bit over the top, but to each his own.

When they can make small cars safer, more comfortable for tall people, and with adequate leg and elbow room, I'll consider it. My Father wanted a smaller car and several of the ones he looked at I couldn't drive. There wasn't enough leg room to get from the accelerator to the brake without hitting my leg on the lower instrument panel. Not safe at all for me to drive.

And I wonder how many others are out there driving cars that don't really fit them?

Also, having a Toyota Prius and living 75 miles each way from work isn't efficient, either. I understand about having to live where you can afford to live, but a lot depends on how efficient the driver drives, and whether or not the driver combines errands so that the car isn't being used over and over and over again during the day for things that could have been done with one trip.

At any rate, I agree that we all need to conserve, but to tell people to give up SUVs when you yourself haven't done everything possible to minimize your own impact is a bit hypocritical. And I'm pretty sick of hypocrisy in elected officials at this point.

Larry Craig, anyone?

[Dr. Strange]

9. Have to agree...

When I read it, I thought, "What about giving up McMansions?"

[Lydia Leftcoast]

146. Well, that too

Sure, Edwards is hypocritical here, but the defensiveness from SUV owners is really interesting.

"I'm all for saving the environment, but I am not going to give up any of my toys or ego enhancers, and I refuse to be creative about thinking up alternatives."

[Buzz Clik]

17. Well, okay, but...

I do not like driving or riding in little imported tuna can cars that get squished in accidents. I read a recent report that said you are more likely to die in a small car if in an accident. Seems rather obvious, but this is yet another reason to have a larger car. They are safer, period.

If the road was filled only with "tuna cans", then they'd all be much safer. One of the big dangers of driving a small car is hitting a really big passenger vehicle. So, part of the relative safety issue of SUV vs economy cars is a direct result of SUVs being lethal weapons.

[AndyA]

18. The issue is these little cars are not designed to be driven safely for tall or large people.

And America is getting fatter by the year.

I'm not obese, but I am over 6'2", and when I can't move my foot from the gas pedal to the brake in an emergency, that car is UNSAFE for me to drive. Same goes for having the door pillar so close that you can't turn the steering wheel with long arms without smacking your elbow on it or the console.

An important part of being a safe driver is being able to react quickly to avoid an accident. Banging your elbow or leg on something that would prevent you from making an evasive maneuver is unsafe.

And everybody driving a small car when there's an idiot behind the wheel in another small car going 100 mph isn't going to change the safety factor much. The only thing that protects in that situation is sheer size.

[SOS]

34. re: SUV safety

"SUVs, originally Army vehicles that evolved into the favorite of executives and soccer moms, appear to offer protection from other vehicles and people, and perhaps an escape from urban life.

Appearances are misleading. Fewer than 5% of SUV owners will ever use their off-road capabilities, and SUV drivers are far less safe than motorists driving regular cars.  Bradsher points out that SUVs contribute to more than 3000 needless highway deaths annually. The public needs to know that rollover death rates for sport-utes are double those of regular passenger cars and that SUVs kill non-passengers as well, causing an additional 2,000 deaths a year in vehicles they strike.

Less well known is the tendency of SUVs such as the Ford Explorer to flip over after striking a guardrail or having a tire fail - problems that don't affect cars. Sport-utilities pollute more, are harder to control, utilize under-sized brakes and consume more fuel than cars, all because of increased weight. SUV buyers need to think twice before purchasing these tanks on wheels. Bradsher concludes, "SUVs represent the biggest menace to public safety and the environment that the auto industry has produced since the bad old days of the 1960s."

http://www.safecarguide.com/exp/suvs/idx.htm

[democracyindanger]

46. Funny.

You talk about being able to react, but support SUVs which are horrendous at handling and stability. And take the poor handling characteristics, insulation from road input, numerous blindspots and the laziness that's created by the feeling of imperviousness that driving a tank creates, and SUVs are the most selfishly dangerous vehicles on the road.

There are plenty of non-SUVs that can fit the gangliest of 6-footers. You talk as if the only thing available to you are subcompacts.

[Tesha]

52. Bullshit. Patent, irredeemable bullshit.

Daniel Pinkwater, sdometimes NPR commentator and well-known
large person once described the car he found that was
*ROOMIER* than his BMW 7-series.

The car?

A Volkswagen New Beetle.

Tesha

[NickB79]

128. I have a coworker who is 5'10" and about 350 lbs

He is not dainty by any means. He currently drives a Scion xB (a 34 mpg compact). His car before that? A Volkswagen Beetle TDI (a 45 mpg compact car). He's had nothing but praise for the Scion, except that it cost him too much to fix the damage from hitting a raccoon last year on the road.

[knight_of_the_star]

33. Not even that would make it safer for the small cars

Its that more often than not when a small car is impacted by or impacts a big car the bumpers don't even line up, if its the small car that has to stop too fast then the rear bumper on said big car can hit anywhere from the hood (most likely) to the windshield (if you're talking the stupidly jacked up things) and if hit in the rear you have the same problem. This wouldn't be an issue if SUVs and trucks for street driving be required to have their bumpers level with the smaller commuter cars.

[Buzz Clik]

37. I agree. Good point.

[MissMillie]

35. not all SUVs are gas hogs

if you don't need to tow a camper or boat, you can buy a small SUV that gets better gas mileage than some mid-sized sedans.

My Scion xB gets 33 miles to the gallon. Can't say that about my mother's Buick.

[Tesha]

53. (I hate to break this to you, but your Scion isn't a real SUV...

(I hate to break this to you, but your Scion isn't a real
SUV, no matter what the marketing said. It's a "Crossover"
vehicle, based on Toyota car components. And as such, it's
not guilty of the sins of real, "light-truck"-based SUVs.)

Tesha

[MissMillie]

58. interestingly enough

my motor vehicle registration classifies it as an SUV, so if SUVs start getting taxed higher than other autos, mine will be (quite unfairly) lumped into that category.

[Tesha]

116. That will likely change of SUVs are ever taxed differently

> interestingly enough, my motor vehicle registration classifies
> it as an SUV...

That will likely change of SUVs are ever taxed differently

The gross weight* of your Scion is 3315 lbs. The gross weight
of a Ford Explorer is 5966 lbs., a Ford Expedition is 7328 lbs.,
and the now-disconinued Ford Excusion (the "Ford Valdez") was
8900 lbs.

Guess which are the "real" SUVs ;) .

Tesha


* Gross weight is the maximum weight of the vehicle when
carrying its full rated load.

[Zavulon]

44. Agreed. I drive an SUV and if I were inclined to give it up,

which I'm not, Edwards' hypocrisy would probably have convinced me to keep it out of spite. I make no apologies for driving what I drive, and if Edwards wants people to give up SUVs he can lead by example and move into a house small enough not to get lost in.

I hope whoever gets the nomination doesn't go down this road; this is a way to lose elections. Lots of Americans hate being told what to wear and what to drive. I'll never vote Republican, but I'm one of those who hates the sort of crap I heard today: a guy who lives in a mansion the size of the city and who is no stranger to private jets asking me to give up the only thing close to a luxury item I own. His intent is good, but his approach pisses me off.

[mac56]

48. "Larry Craig, anyone?"

Really?!

You're really comparing Edwards' plea for vehicle downsizing to....that pig, Larry Craig?!

Really.

:eyes:

[Maine-ah]

92. hypocrisy

craig against gays, is secretly gay himself.

edwards calls for energy efficiency but votes against cafe for suv's and has a 28k square foot home, drives vehicles that are far from fuel efficient.

[mac56]

100. And you're really equating the two of them?!

Un-freaking-believable.

[Maine-ah]

112. it's all hypocrisy.

do as I say not as I do. I think it's all bullshit.

[LisaL]

83. I would say.

Edwards is building this huge house. It actually looks like two houses-I guess the other one is a guest house. But others, they should make sacrifices, and give up the SUVs. Right. Real convincing.

[JerseygirlCT]

103. There's a lot of variety in SUVs, too.

I used to drive a Subaru Forester -- which is actually pretty darn small. I did like the way it sat up a little higher, though. Gave me half a chance to see with all the mega-mobiles on the road.

But you're right that it's too easy to zero in on just one thing -- it's more complex than that. I think the approach Gore and company were taking around the Live Earth concerts is far more sensible: do ONE thing. Start with ONE thing. It makes the goal very reachable, and success builds on success.

[MUSTANG_2004]

123. Agree - many reasons for owning SUV's

We owned a Jeep Cherokee for years. The gas mileage wasn't terrible, and it was great for traveling, since there was room for the kids and our dogs.

I think the huge SUVs are over the top, but the mini-vans and normal sized SUVs aren't that different from the station wagons of yesteryear.

And I agree, being told by someone who owns a mega-McMansion that I should drive an economy car is annoying.

[northzax]

137. it's worth noting...

that you are also much more likely to kill another person in an accident if you are driving an SUV.

[Connie_Corleone]

12. Good luck with that, Edwards.

Maybe wealthy people should give up their mansions and buy smaller homes.

Make that big sacrifice. Get rid of your mansion, Edwards.

[tabasco]

36. The damage has already been done by building the monstrosity.

The time for him to "give it up" was before it was built.

Just building the palace was a mistake and environmentally unsound.

I like Edwards and will support him, should he be nominated, but he is compromised as far as preaching to Americans about environmental issues. All the blowhards have to do is show a picture of his house. No matter how correct Edwards' argument, the knee-jerk crowd will howl "hypocrisy" and to a certain degree, will be correct.

[Seabiscuit]

62. Aw, come ON!

Edwards' house, Edwards' house, Edwards' house, Edwards' haircut, etc., etc., adnauseumFoxNoise talking points.

Give it a rest.

The amount of CO2 and other carbon based pollutants released into the atmosphere by the Edwards family in their house doesn't even represent one millionth of one percent of the CO2 and other carbon-based pollutants released into the atmosphere by SUV's being driven by stupid, greedy, needle-dicked selfish gas hogs in America.

Another mindless right-wing "if you don't like the message attack the messenger" post, thank you, but no thank you. Same to Connie.

What Edwards is saying is just plain good old common sense, if we're to do anything to combat global warming as a nation.

Oh, and let me guess. You're unwilling to part with your Hummer monstrosities, they make you feel sooooo manly. The next best thing to dressing up in a flight suit on an aircraft carrier and getting saluted by a bunch of sailors, huh?

[high density]

82. Well, his house is pretty stupid

when you consider he's constantly trying to market himself as this green conservationist type of person. We've already had enough of this crap from Bushco with their Orwellian language choices.

[tabasco]

86. Baloney!

I LIKE the message but there is little doubt Edwards did not fully consider green issues when building his palace.

That is a FACT that Edwards has to deal with and YOU are the one who attacked the messenger, with your stupid "right-wing" accusations.

[Maine-ah]

90. man, he had to have done a bit of clear cutting

to build that house....go see my post towards the bottom and look at the pic of the place.

[tabasco]

94. That's a lot of habitat destroyed. For horse riding?

Jesus H. Christ. I would not do that if I had all the money in the world.

I like Edwards a lot but two things keep me from supporting him in the primaries:
1. IWR.
2. Green issue hypocrisy.

[Seabiscuit]

132. You all just nominated yourselves as guests on Bill O'Lielly's Fox Noise show.

Billo just loves putting people like you in front of his camera.

He never wants to address real issues. He's only interested in screaming "hypocrite" at someone like Edwards, who has shown during his campaign that he has America's interests at heart. Billo probably has someone trolling DU right now looking for posters like yourselves to invite onto his show or at least to quote: "here's a lefty from one of the worst liberal blogs on the internet, calling Edwards a 'green hypocrite'"!

[Vilis Veritas]

14. I gave up my Silverado for a Jetta TDI...

Great car. Great crash ratings and great fuel economy. It can even be converted to run on used vegetable oil for around $800.

My 100 plus mile commute (rt) was making it impossible to justify the gas. I now live a little closer, but still commute 60 miles per day.

Peace.

[Apollo11]

15. Beware of how the MSM is spinning this!

Let's get this straight. Here is how The Guardian (UK) has the exact same story:

Edwards tells Americans to give up SUVs

Candidate tells forum: 'America's going to have to change'

Associated Press
Wednesday August 29, 2007

Democratic presidential hopeful John Edwards today said he would ask Americans to give up their SUVs, as he set out his plans to curb carbon emissions.

At a forum held by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers in Florida, Mr Edwards said he believe Americans were "actually willing to sacrifice".

He said "one of the things they should be asked to do is drive more fuel efficient vehicles." When asked if this meant telling voters to give up their SUVs the former senator said "yes".

(...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections08/johnedwards/story/0,,2158324,00.html

John Edwards is not saying that he will ban SUVs outright and overnight.

He is saying that if as a nation we are going to reduce our CO2 emissions, then Americans should be asked to drive more fuel efficient vehicles.

This is basically common sense, and there are many ways that the Federal Government could encourage the shift to better mileage.

Making all private vehicles subject to CAFE standards would be one way.

[On the Road]

19. Ah, Good Catch

It always pays to look at the source. Even on DU, you're the only one who was not taken in.

[Apollo11]

20. For the record, my car gets 48 mpg

I drive a European Ford Fusion 1.6 TDCi (it runs on diesel).

This is the actual mileage I get (not just what Ford claims!)

http://www.ford.co.uk/ie/fusion/-/-/-/-/-/2006

[jsamuel]

27. You are right, the AP is spinning this story.

[NJCher]

110. Who's on the Board at AP

AP--another right-wing propaganda machine.

This is from Project Censored's Web page:

The AP Board of Directors is made up of 22 newspaper and media executives including the Presidents/CEOs of ABC, Cox News, McClatchy, Gannett, Scripps, Tribune, Hearst, Washington Post and several smaller/regional newspaper chains. Two directors are members of conservative policy councils including the Hoover Institute and the Business Round Table. Three are on the board of directors of Mutual Insurance, and one is on the board of the world’s largest defense contractor, Lockheed Martin. The AP Board represents a solid corporate media network of the largest publishers in the US and provides a clear tilt towards right-wing conservative perspectives. (see appendix for full listing of AP directors)



Cher

[depakid]

69. Impressive how DUe'rs jump to the tune

and get all defensive about their wasteful habits. Most people have absolutely no use for an SUV- they're a bunch of suckers who believe (contrary to the evidence) that SUV's are safer (which they're not) -or they're into some sort of aggression type of deal.

Bottom line is that they're not going to do anything responsible until they're forced to- and it won't be by any politician- it'll be because of the economics of petroleum depletion. I for one won't feel in the slightest bit sorry for them when that time comes.

[LisaL]

84. I don't have an SUV. I am not planning to get an SUV any time soon.

I actually use a bus (public transportation) most of the time. But what right does someone who build this huge house has to tell others to give up their luxuries and comforts?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

147. Me, either Depakid

Oil depletion and global climate change are coming, and we can have either a hard landing or a soft landing.

The ones who are unwilling to give up a single toy and insist on continuing to moving into housing developments or even, heaven help us, condos, next to farms, destroying wildlife habitat to such a degree that bird species are declining, will have a hard landing.

And they will squeal and complain like spoiled children who have been denied a treat for the first time in their lives.

[bunkerbuster1]

118. I assumed the original story was a grotesque oversimplification

The MSM will do anything it can to continue framing this whole "John Edwards is a hypocrite" business, at any opportunity.

[GTurck]

16. S U V's

Our youngest son has 4 kids and his wife drives a very big Expedition which accommodates them all; including the remaining child safety seat but there is no reason that Detroit couldn't have found a way to make large vehicles that were more fuel efficient. Yes, I think American drivers could by and large lose the SUV and still get around just fine but there is a need for a larger capacity vehicle.

What a challenge it would be to actually have high fuel efficiency coupled with passenger capacity. What a shining example it would be for American ingenuity and dynamism to market such a vehicle at a reasonable price. But of course I am dreaming. The America I grew up in liked challenges to its ingenuity. Today it seems we want only the sure thing; the tried and ,maybe not so, true.

For our part my husband and I drive a 4 cylinder Galant and if we had the wherewithal it would go for a Mini-Cooper or a hybrid. That would nicely take care of our needs.

[Apollo11]

28. These vehicles already exist

In Europe, GM sells a 15-feet long 7-seat minivan called the Opel Zafira (or in the UK - Vauxhall Zafira). With a diesel engine it can get 40 mpg - or with a gasoline engine 32 mpg.

Also in Europe, Ford sells a 16-feet long 7-seat minivan called the Ford Galaxy. With a diesel engine it does 37 mpg - or with a gasoline engine 29 mpg.

The above figures are for an average cycle (mixed urban and highway) - as measured by the European Union.

[Skittles]

133. I was one of six kids and my dad drove an Impala

there is no reason to drive an Expedition

[frylock]

24. did he issue this statement from his mansion?

John needs to walk the fucking walk if he's going to play up this "man of the people" shit.

[mopinko]

25. i'll call detroit, and ask them to fix me up

psssst. john. we can only drive what we can buy, and mostly, we can buy cars with no better mileage than my first car, a 10 y.o. 63 vw beetle. go to the auto show next time. take a look.

[penguin7]

26. Sell the SUV; Build 28,000 Square foot house instead

Edwards is a real environmentalist.

[Squatch]

45. ...

:spray:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[JVS]

154. Who needs to go anywhere when you have it all there?

[Ilsa]

30. Hey Johnny, I can't just walk away from an older SUV and start

a new car note to save a little gas when I don't drive that much anyway.

[IndianaJones]

31. uhhh...no. nt.

[Felix Mala]

39. "Sacrifice" a lightning rod for right-wing radio for three hours or more today...

Announcement should have been: "Time has come to explore fuel efficiency in all vehicles, including SUV's..."

What's wrong with his campaign people? You can't sell "sacrifice." You can get reasonable people to "investigate."

[Az_lefty]

40. I'll gladly sacrifice my mini-SUV when hybrids become affordable.

so how about promising tax breaks, subsidies or what ever it takes to get these things on the road? John's got the right idea but just saying people need to do this or that doesn't always work. Put some plans in place to drive this through and it will happen.

[cobalt1999]

41. Okay, first really stupid thing I've heard from Edwards.

You can encourage people to reduce their carbon footprints, but you make a huge mistake when you tell them how. People have different priorities and desires, so there is no one size fits all sacrifice.

I drive an SUV because I have a boat to tow, 4 dogs, 2 kids, a wife and usually a pile of camping gear. However, I live in a small house and we don't use A/C (largest single use of electricity).

John: What's it cost to cool that mansion of yours? Probably the carbon footprint of 10 SUV's.

[monmouth]

124. There are about 4-6 SUV's parked at Edward's mansion. Saw an aerial view...

[Lorien]

42. Then what would 90% of the guys who own them do

to compensate for their tiny penises?


:shrug:

[harun]

57. Buy giant Trucks instead (n/t)

[MissMillie]

61. good one

:spray:


:thumbsup:

[greatauntoftriplets]

43. So what does Edwards' entourage drive?

If elected president, would Edwards give up the limos and giant SUVs that constitute the presidential motorcade?

If elected president, is Edwards planning to be chauffeured in a VW Bug? I highly doubt it.

[OldTymeDem]

49. What are YOU going to give up Johnny?

Hairspray?

This coming from a guy who has god knows how many vehicles and a 28k mansion..

What a hypocrite.

[greatauntoftriplets]

56. Huh? I never use hairspray....yucky stuff.

:shrug:

[wordpix]

59. maybe he'll trade in the pres SUVs for armored Priuses & Civic hybrids

I can dream, can't I?

[greatauntoftriplets]

64. And fly on regularly scheduled flights....

instead of Air Force One?

He is allowed to fly first class.

[Xenotime]

54. SUVs are a cancer on the american roadway.

They use so much gas it's sickening

[surfermaw]

55. It can be done

I have already been through the process of raising a family and my grandchildren, who were fairly athletic...my kids were like stair steeps four of them, it was hard, sometime having children playing in different places, but guess what I did it with a four seater all with out a SUV. It can be done... in fact I used a Toyota Camry for my G Children which was 4C. It can be done

[ramapo]

63. Good for him

Couldn't agree more. Too bad he just gave anybody running against him a huge smear issue.

I can see the attack ads, "Edwards will confiscate your SUV", "Drive Free, Don't vote for Edwards", etc. etc.

[Scout]

67. is he going to buy me a new vehicle? n/t

[Maine-ah]

70. Edwards in Iowa with what appears to be a Cadillac SRX, which gets 15 mpg.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2007/08/john-not-always.html
um, yeah. I don't think so. I drive an SUV. Couldn't live without the 4wd in my area. For how little I drive, I'm not giving it up. For all the resources it took to build his house (just building it) I don't think he has a leg to stand on when it comes to enviornmental practices. Don't tell me about his "energy efficient" home. His electric bill alone is several hundred a month.

source for electric bill:
http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2007/20070320125451.aspx

[cobalt1999]

73. Wow.

John, I'd thank you for not criticizing my choices again until your energy requirements get down to, oh say, 10 times my own instead of 20 times my own.

And just yesterday, I was commenting that he has run a surprisingly flawless campaign.

[high density]

78. Edwards: Do as I say, not as I do?

That's a great campaign platform. :eyes:

[2rth2pwr]

105. Holy Cow!! What are those red

circles? Are those supposed to be SUV's? wth!

[arikara]

127. That is one grossly awful looking place

What an ugly clear cut. Even when they do plant grass it won't look nice with all the trees ripped out. When they get some grass up, no doubt it'll be acres of chemicalized golf course style short green grass with a gardener mowing full time on a riding lawn tractor.

And what's with that weird path of connecting outbuildings leading to the barn? What a strange monstrosity.

Hmmm, makes me kinda hope he gets in just because it would be so much fun to see what they do when they redecorate the white house.

[ChiciB1]

152. Well, I Live In Florida & My House Is Only 1400 Sq. Ft. And MY Electric

bill this month was $295.00! So he MUST be doing SOMETHING energy efficient!! That place is a lot bigger, a whole lot bigger and his energy bill is only a little over twice what mine is!

Guess FPL just likes charging SO MUCH MORE!!

[MODemocrat]

71. When Edwards conserves on energy, I'll take his advice

His home alone probably uses 25 to 30 more times electric energy than my home! I don't have a SUV
because I don't have the income to own one. :shrug:

[fujiyama]

75. Hmmm...Perhaps "Sacrifice" is not one of those things Edwards should ask for...

It really does seem like a joke from someone that lives in a house, practically the size of a freakin subdivision.

Also, I remember reading Edwards drives an Escape Hybrid...which is still an SUV. It may be a hybrid, but its mileage is still not as great as a car hybrid. And unlike Edwards, many of us can't afford hybrids in the first place, which are more expensive than other vehicles.


This is not to say I dislike Edwards or like SUVs. I can't stand them and I think the drivers are often times the worst on the road. But if Edwards is asking for sacrifice, he's going to have to join in on it.

[Beaverhausen]

76. Maybe all of you should read the article to see what he actually said

or you could just keep on spouting the right wing talking points.

[high density]

79. ???????

We have read the articles in question, I think.

[Beaverhausen]

81. Oh- I'm getting threads mixed up

Here is from the thread in GD-P:

Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards told a labor group Tuesday that he would ask Americans to make a big sacrifice: their sport utility vehicles.

“I think Americans are actually willing to sacrifice,” Edwards said during a forum held by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. “One of the things they should be asked to do is drive more fuel efficient vehicles.”

The former North Carolina senator was asked specifically if he would tell them to give up their SUVS, he said, “Yes.”

[seasat]

77. Edwards voted to exempt pickups and SUVs from increased CAFE standards in '02.

Here's the bill Edwards voted for.

S.AMDT.2998
Amends: S.517 , S.AMDT.2917
Sponsor: Sen Miller, Zell (submitted 3/13/2002) (proposed 3/13/2002)

AMENDMENT PURPOSE:
To prohibit the increase of the average fuel economy standard for pickup trucks.

TEXT OF AMENDMENT AS SUBMITTED: CR S1859

STATUS:

3/13/2002:
Amendment SA 2998 proposed by Senator Miller to Amendment SA 2917. (consideration: CR S1828-1830; text: CR S1828)
3/13/2002:
Amendment SA 2998 agreed to in Senate by Yea-Nay Vote. 56 - 44. Record Vote Number: 48.

COSPONSORS(5):

Sen Gramm, Phil - 3/13/2002
Sen Hutchinson, Tim - 3/13/2002
Sen Inhofe, James M. - 3/13/2002
Sen Helms, Jesse - 3/13/2002
Sen Allen, George - 3/13/2002

[sarcasmo]

80. A great idea, but they will never give them up this is the ME, ME, ME, society.

[DrunkenMaster]

85. delete

self delete

[NickB79]

89. The responses on this thread are amusing and sad at the same time

Folks, like it or not, we're at a crossroads in human history. We are currently looking down the barrel of rapidly escalating global warming (check out the rapidly melting Arctic ice in the Environment board here for a nasty surprise). In addition to this, it appears that we have either passed Peak Oil, or are on the plateau of peak oil production and will fall off of that plateau shortly. If neither of these subjects scare the hell out of you, you need to read up on them a bit more. They are civilization killers.

Nature doesn't care that you can't transport a soccer team in a subcompact. Nature doesn't care that you feel the need to own an SUV because you can't live without taking the boat up to the lakes on the weekends for some fishing. What nature cares about is carrying capacity. What nature cares about is finite natural resources. We can either voluntarily reduce our ecological footprint now, conserve what we have left and try to undo some of the damage we have done, or nature will do it for us in a very unpleasant fashion.

[Maine-ah]

93. I would have to say that most of us agree with you

HOWEVER

Edwards is not in the position to call for this if he himself is not willing to do the same.

[NickB79]

95. Agreed

That mansion of his leaves a very bad taste in my mouth....

[LisaL]

106. It's all well and good.

So why doesn't Edwards give up his huge house before asking others to reduce their footprints?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

148. Yeah, the grandchildren and great-grandchildren of the people who

gave up so much during World War II can't give up a single thing to save the damn planet.

By the way NickB79 if you're a Minnesotan, check out the Minnesota forum.

[Inspired]

97. I already sacrificed mine. I find them offensive. n/t

[nickinSTL]

104. here's my view...

I'm all for giving up my SUV...once it's paid for. Which will be in 2009. Before then, I simply can't afford it. What I get then...will depend on my financial situation.

To be fair, when the weather is decent, I drive my 2 door '88 Toyota Corolla to and from work, and use the SUV only for things like shopping (which the 2 door isn't really good for). And I use the SUV, which is 4 wheel drive, in bad weather.

However, when I replace the SUV in a couple years, I do hope it will be with a hybrid or other alternative fuel vehicle...but giving up the space of the SUV would be tough. Which might make something like the Hybrid Escape or Hybrid Highlander likely choices.

[sanskritwarrior]

109. You first John

and the big house too and the chartered flights.........What exactly is your Carbon footprint Mister Edwards? I guarantee it is larger than mine.............

[NJCher]

111. he needs to get rid of that house and rephrase his request

Maybe if Edwards had said it a different way: "I'm willing to give up my use of SUVs. How about you?"

This is a very bad move on Edwards' part. I can hardly believe he did it because his campaign has been golden up to now.

The house is way over the top. Way, way, over the top. I was at one time an Edwards supporter but I don't think someone who lives so ostentatiously has the moral authority to ask Americans to give up their gas hogs.



Cher

p.s. I recall a report in a magazine that said he traveled in a big black SUV during the last presidential campaign. I recall reading about in some magazine--I think it was New York Magazine.

[Maribelle]

113. Perhaps Democratic candidates could point out all the wasted fuel by Bush, AF1 and his entourage

I remember being stuck in traffic in the middle of rush hour as Bush decided to motorcade from the airport to a rich man's house for a republican fund raiser.

So, for over a half an hour, thousands of cars waited for the twin limos, the black suvs, many local police cars to poop by. Then for close to two more hours those thousands of cars attempted to get on with their lives through the massive traffic jam Bush caused, turning all major roads in the area into parking lots. Many missed planes, others missed picking up their children, suppers grew cold, appointments were missed - - and the bloodsucker Bush raked in big bucks for the most corrupt republicans this nation has ever endured, all the while burning up more fuel than most of the thousands stuck in his mini-quagmire could use in their lifetimes.

Maybe one of the Democratic candidates could even calculate how much fuel Bush and Cheney have wasted since 2000, and even persuade Americans to sacrifice their AF1 and AF2's?

[lynne]

115. Edwards has no credibility on sacrifice -

- as long as he and/or his staff continues to drive SUV's and he heats/cools a 28,000 sq ft mansion. Yes, John, there are two America's and you obviously have no concept of mine!

[Vinca]

117. Why does Edwards say stuff like this? You know there must

be at least a million photos of him getting out of gas guzzling SUVs. He makes a good point, but comes off as having no common sense.

[humbled_opinion]

122. Exactly wouldn't surprise me if...

While on Poverty tour in Appalacian counties...Edwards sees some of the truely poor young folks sitting on a porch front and gets out of his SUV calls the cameras around and says

America this is exactly what I am trying fix... Look at these misfortunate children sitting here on this porch... Don't worry kids we are going to fix you right up... Hey get my barber over here these kids need haircuts....

LOL...

Just kidding.

[treestar]

119. He of the $400 haircut can't afford to make these statements

If it had come from anyone else, it'd be OK.

Even military weapons are made abroad? I thought the hardware needed for war was the one thing the US did manufacture.

And that was the reason there were so many wars in the world.

Edwards is having a bad day (if not a bad hair day)

[benEzra]

126. He was speaking of U.S. military small arms, I think...

Even military weapons are made abroad? I thought the hardware needed for war was the one thing the US did manufacture.

He was speaking of U.S. military small arms, I think. The current M16 contract is with the European (Belgian?) firm FN-Herstal, IIRC, and the U.S. military pistols are currently made by Beretta (Italy) and Sig-Sauer (Germany, IIRC). Colt (Connecticut, USA) still has the M4 contract, AFAIK.

Most of our small arms ammunition is made in the USA, but we did buy some ammunition from Israel recently.

[4dsc]

120. Carbon tax!!

I suggest we implement the carbon tax and see how many people continue to drive these gas guzzlers..

[cobalt1999]

121. As long as it is not a straight tax.

Remember one of the biggest energy uses you have is your Home Heating/Cooling system. For most people, that uses far more energy than their SUV, thus a much bigger carbon footprint.

Are you going to price people away from Heating/Cooling?
Is it only the wealthy who can buy carbon credits and afford to pay carbon taxes that can continue to be wasteful?

If we implemented a rationing system, then people can choose to use their credits as they see fit. Drive your SUV, but turn off your home A/C. Drive a hybrid or take the bus and crank up the heat. Your choice. If you use more than your ration, you can make the penalties so severe even Edwards would think twice about building a 28,000 sq ft home.

[MUSTANG_2004]

125. Electricity rationing

A better system for electricity rationing would be the self-regulating process where peak hour electricity costs more, and off-hour is dramatically cheaper.

The way it is today, there is no incentive to move your electricity use to the lower-cost night hours.

[ozone_man]

135. Tax all carbon emissions.

The Earth doesn't care whether the carbon comes from cars or homes.

Maybe there also has to be a carbon allowance in addition to a carbon tax to prevent the rich from exceeding sensible limits.

Also, we should tax nuclear power to account for the length of time (half life) that it remains dangerous.

Tax credits should go for renewable energy sources, energy efficient appliances, cars.

[amandabeech]

129. In a perfect world, he'd have a point. But this isn't going to get him elected.

He needs to ask Americans to drive the most fuel-efficient vehicle that suits their needs, and challenge automakers to make even more fuel-efficient vehicles.

His statement gets attention, but pisses too many people off.

And . . . people aren't going to listen long enough to hear the message about manufacturing our military equipment right here at home, which I think a lot of folks would agree with.

He's going to do a flip-flop on this.

[hunter]

130. I don't have an SUV. Can I sacrifice somebody else's???

What's the proper ritual? Do I have to dismantle it first, or can I just put it in the crusher whole?

Is their some prayer that is specific to the sacrifice of an SUV?

[Chovexani]

142. I'll get the torches

:evilgrin:

[TexasBushwhacker]

131. Well, fixing tax loopholes would help

Any small business can deduct up to $25K of the cost of an SUV or truck weighing over 6000 lbs (used for business purposes only), but if they buy a passenger vehicle or a light truck/SUV, they can only deduct $2960.

So, a real estate agent that wants to drive their clients around in a new Town Car that gets 25 MPG can deduct $2960 or .485 per mile, but if they decide to plunk down the same amount of money for a Navigator (which gets 18 MPG) they can deduct $25K the first year.

Assuming that the small businessman is in the 35% tax bracket, that means that he pays $8750 less in taxes to drive the gas guzzling SUV. My question is WHY? If it's used for business purposes, why shouldn't a business be encouraged to purchase a vehicle that has the best fuel economy that still suits their needs.

It was actually worse for a couple of years. The limit on large SUV's and trucks was $100K! There were salesmen buying Hummers because they got a $35K tax break (in some cases even more!).

[leaninglib]

134. This is funny...!!!

When they start laughing at you John, it's over.

:rofl:

[maximusveritas]

138. This is going to hurt him

It only strengthens my notion that he will be our weakest general election candidate. The GOP will have a field day with things like this. It doesn't matter what he really meant. They'll just keep repeating "Edwards wants to take away your SUVs" until Romney or some other nut is in the White.

[krabigirl]

139. I drive a Honda CR-V. Gets an average of 27 mpg (bet city/hwy)

It gets 30 on the highway also. it gets better mileage than many wagons and sedans. And I traded in a VW Beetle for this, which, ironically, only got 1 mpg more per gallon on average. Hmm.

I hate when ALL SUV's are lumped into one category. Not all of them are gas guzzlers!!!

[Tesha]

141. As I said to the Scion xB owner above...

Your CRV isn't a real "SUV", no matter what the
marketing said. It's a car-derived, not truck-
derived vehicle.

Tesha

[Honeycombe8]

150. You are incorrectomundo, my friend. I have a car that people THINK is an SUV...

It's the Subaru Forester. It is built on a car chassis and is a car in all respects...except that it's kinda boxy and has a cargo area. So people think it's an SUV. But it's not. My ins. company has it classified as a "wagon."

The Honda CRV IS built on a truck chassis and is classified by ins. cos. as an SUV. It does light off-roading, has a high center of gravity (the rollover effect), has a truck chassis. It is, in effect, a truck that looks like a car. I, on the other hand, have a car that looks like a truck sort of.

I drove the CRV. It drives like a van. My Forester drives like a car, because that's what it is.

[Tesha]

151. If it's a Unit Body with independent front and rear suspension, it ain't an SUV

If it's built with Unit Body Construction and independent
front and rear suspension, it ain't an SUV as they are
classically defined. The classical SUV is a re-bodying
of a full-framed pickup truck with a solid-axle rear
suspension.

Reference:

http://www.worldcarfans.com/2060906.005/all-new-honda-cr-v-in-detail

> As a crossover SUV, the foundation of the CR-V starts
> with unit-body construction for sedan-like on-road
> performance, maximized interior packaging, optimized
> safety construction and good fuel economy for an SUV.
> Since unit-body construction allows for interior space
> to be maximized, the CR-V's packaging provides generous
> 5-passenger interior space and superior cargo functionality
> relative to traditional SUV designs that are inherently
> less space-efficient.

> o Unit-body construction with independent front and rear suspensions

Tesha

[FormerOstrich]

143. Uummm....OK...but....

at the same time let's review some other adjustments......like.....

Packaging.....

In fast food:

How about paper bags & wax paper instead of so much plastic and styrofoam containers. Order a salad at Wendy's (to eat in) and you get a nice bowl (and lid).

In most other things:

Bulk package more items. Even at Home Depot it's difficult to buy face plates that aren't individually wrapped along with the little individually wrapped screws for each plate.

I bought a $6 watch at (I hate to admit it) WalMart that was intricately packaged. The packaging had to have cost as much as the damn watch.

Corporate Mid-Management Control Mentatlity....

How about more meaningful work-from-home or satellite offices. Schedule adjustments. How stupid are we that five days a week for about six hours a day every major city has lane after lane crawling along to support the 8-5 (9-5) thought process.

Government (and Private) Business Thermostats

I live in the damn Desert and you damn near freeze to death in just about every public building. Keeping the buildings that cold just make it more difficult when you do go outside.


I could rant on and I'm sure everyone here could add additional items but the fact is we won't change until it is forced upon us.

[Tesha]

144. Another day, another SUV roll-over accident

Yesterday mid-afternoon was a fine day on my city's
local highway. Warm but not hot, no rain, snow, sleet,
hail, or ice. Little traffic. Nothing to keep anyone
from proceeding along at their normal 70-75 MPH.

Well, until two girls came along driving their SUV
which they somehow managed to flip, right there on
the straightaway near the exit for our house. No
other car directly involved, just one SUV turned
turtle and smashed against the left-hand guardrail.

This morning in the paper is a big photo of a huge
backup, all caused by an SUV that collaborated with
its driver to flip.

Luckily, the girls were apparently wearing seat
belts as they both were able to walk away.

But it's another proof-point that SUVs are simply
*NOT* the "safer" vehicles that many folks think
they are.

Tesha

[Honeycombe8]

149. Ha! Is he TRYING to lose votes? Americans are not going to "sacrifice" their SUVs.

It's better if the govt requires mandatory mpg.