Plane carrying Shelby and Cramer fired on above Iraq

[RamboLiberal]

Source: The Birmingham News

A C-130 aircraft carrying an Alabama senator and congressman was fired on this evening as it was flying from Baghdad to Amman, Jordan.

The airplane was carrying Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., and Rep. Bud Cramer, D-Huntsville, and two other senators.

Three rockets were shot at the plane and were "near misses," Shelby said in a telephone interview. He said the pilot took evasive maneuvers to avoid the rockets. The plane landed safely in Amman at about 4 p.m. central.

"I was looking out the window, a little small window, and I saw a shell or something," Shelby said. "And then I see a flare. Our plane started maneuvering and changing directions and shaking all around."


Read more: http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2007/08/plane_carrying_shelby_and_cram.html

---

On edit more:

"It was dark as the dickens outside, and I was looking out the little window. I saw the red glare of a shell or a missile coming up toward our plane," Shelby said in a telephone interview with Alabama reporters late this afternoon. "Then I saw a flare pop out and our plane just started moving and changing directions and trying to move."

Nobody was injured in the confrontation, and Shelby credited the training of the military crew.

"The crew did a tremendous job evading the missiles," Shelby said. "They couldn't have done a better job. We owe them."

There was no direct identification of the forces on the ground, but Shelby said there was no doubt in his mind they were enemy insurgents.

"The place we were flying over is pretty dangerous with dangerous people. I know it wasn't our people," he said.

http://blog.al.com/breaking/2007/08/c130_with_shelby_cramer_aboard.html

Any changes of underwear needed? Who were the other 2 senators?

[daleo]

1. I wonder if this will affect their impression of how well the surge is working?

One suspects that this may make them slightly less likely to drink the koolaid.

[liberal N proud]

12. We can hope so

Once they put the shit back in their drawers maybe they will realize it is time to get the fuck out of Baghdad

[Ian David]

45. Obviously, it's just like shopping in Dumbfuck Iowa. And hey...

If the insurgents have satellite television and working cellphones, then freedom is on the march.

[djjimz]

55. Hell NO!

Not Shelby!
He needs to score more points with Satan first.
:evilfrown:

[leftchick]

2. I bet they both say the surge is working

:eyes:

[stillcool]

3. Shelby said "there was no doubt in his mind...

they were enemy insurgents?" Wow. How long did it take him to figure that out? Or do republicans routinely have rockets fired at them?

[DURHAM D]

6. It was probably friendly fire. eom

[0007]

50. There may be something to what you're saying!

[Virginia Dare]

17. I guess that makes him feel better..

than the prospect that it was one of ours shooting at him...:scared:

[stillcool]

25. too bad the cameras weren't

rolling then...would have made quite the photo-op!

[jobycom]

23. Any time a Republican denies something that quickly, I assume the opposite.

[SharonAnn]

35. It couldn't have been American troops who want to go home?

[jmowreader]

67. Absolutely not.

It's just a C-130. Any American Stinger gunner can hit one of those.

[Ian David]

46. Did he recognize the rockes as the ones Reagan traded for hostages?

Or maybe they were just lying around in one of the stockpiles we left un-guarded.

Or maybe they were purchased with the ransom money we paid to get the two Fox "News" reporters released.

Or maybe they were purchased with the ransom money we paid to get the Christian Evangelists released from Afghanistan.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

87. Your post just makes me want to cry.

I can't take this any longer,

We have dictators who are spreading fear world wide while selling weapons on the side.

We're arming everyone. This is insane. ...Who is going to save us??

[Subdivisions]

53. I routinely fire finger rockets at them. n/t

[monmouth]

4. Or maybe someone is sick of these people "visiting" there and taking

them away from their duties. Like, take a hint!!

[Nimrod2005]

5. It was probably the Al Qaeda # 2 in Iraq!!!

But I am glad we are having great success with the surge!

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

7. Just Like A Plane Ride Over Indiana

Everything's just fine. It's like a helicopter ride above the open air swap meet in Indiana.

[dipsydoodle]

8. It was dark as the dickens outside,

and I was looking out the little window and I was all alone.............

Sounds like the time last *u** made love.

[Fridays Child]

9. Just like flying over "...a normal outdoor market in Indiana in the summertime." Right, Mike Pence?

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/04/pence-baghdad/

[intaglio]

10. Of course if they had been shot down then

sometime round 9/11/07 a report would have found that the missile was "of Iranian manufacture"

Terra! Terra! Terra!

[jedr]

11. Very thing is fine;

I'm sure they were fireworks set off in celebration of our Senators and congressman and the liberation they bring........ Nothing to see here....move along!!!!!

[Jacobin]

13. This proves the surge is working

They are getting so desperate, they are shooting at congresscritters.


er, well,

[Peregrine Took]

21. No doubt about it... n/t

[Phrogman]

14. He's full of shit, I'd like to know what window on a C-130 he saw all that from

eom

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

24. senators love to lie

[Virginia Dare]

28. Military members feel free to correct me..

but they probably didn't let them anywhere near a window when all this was going on?:shrug:

[Phrogman]

34. They would have him seated and seatbelted in on the nylon fold downs and

If he was lucky he might of been able to see the tiny portholes across the wide fuselage from his seat.

He "might" of been able to see light flashes, but theres no way in the fucking world the flight crew would let em' be unseatbelted and standing looking out a porthole while the pilot was taking evasive actions from enemy fire.


These people just lie their asses off.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

64. were they in the cockpit ?

sounds a bit fishy to me?

[BrotherBuzz]

69. Some rude Congress critters do sit in the cockpit

This is an account I heard Charlie Brown tell of his son meeting John Doolittle (CA4) in Iraq. Oh, Charlie Brown challenged Doolittle in the last race, and will beat the snot out of Doolittle next time.

....

My son has had three rotations in Iraq, in Feb, Doolittle went over to visit the troops, check on what they needed, and get some good PR since it was the middle of the lobbying scandal.

Congressional delegation which included Doolittle, Harris and Shay got helicoptered from the Green Zone out to Baghdad airport, streets are OK for our troops but not congressmen/women.
Harris and Shay climbed on the C130 asking if anyone was from Florida or Connecticut, what did they need, etc. Doolittle just asked if he could sit in the cockpit — C130 is a cargo plane, not real comfortable, but there is a spare seat in the cockpit that is better than being in the back.

Crew couldn’t really say no, so Doolittle came up, sat down, said hi to the aircraft commander, ignored the copilot, navigator, flight engineer, load master. An hour later the plane landed at Talafar. As Doolittle got off the plane, the aircraft commander gave Doolittle a message from the copilot “Congressman Doolittle, Charlie Brown and his son hope you had a nice flight”

Doolittle sat about 18 inches from my son for over an hour. Didn’t ask him his name, where he was from, what rotation he was on (his third tour in Iraq), what he needed - totally ignored him - guess a copilot isn’t important enough to talk to.

The whole crew knew who Doolittle was, that I was running against him. Jeff’s crew has contributed to the campaign. They couldn’t belief how Doolittle ignored them all —

[BrotherBuzz]

32. Maybe some C-130's are configured with small ports

[Subdivisions]

54. Especially the ones that carry senators. They expect to be able

to look out as they fly over their precious little expensive war.

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

72. possibly..

[L. Coyote]

43. I know it wasn't our people," he said. How did he know?

[Aviation Pro]

15. There is a standard maneuver to climb out from an airport in the....

....middle of a combat zone. Sadly, the insurgency has figured it out. (And no, I'm not telling).

[Virginia Dare]

18. Or our counter- intelligence system has completely broken down..n/t

[frogcycle]

49. No surprise there

They have been watching the comings and goings from that airport for years now.
And while the C130 is pretty agile for a big lumbering bus, well, it's still a big lumbering bus, isn't it?

I worked for a while right next to Lambert Field in St. Louis; used to love to watch the F/A-18's take off. They have a small cylinder of airspace straight up from the tower dedicated to them. ATC just steers the commercial flights around it. They use one of the lateral taxiways connecting the commercial runways for their runway; just put the pedal to the metal, blast off, get into that cylinder and go straight up 'til they disappear. Not infrequently they would set off car alarms in the parking lot with their vibration. Damn they are pretty planes.

I got to fly the engineering simulator several times, make a carrier landing. Crashed a LOT of times!

[ThomCat]

16. I'm sure they'll find "proof" that Iran was behind this.

This will be part of their excuse for going to war.

[TheCowsCameHome]

19. Now Shelby will demand a Medal of Freedom.

[Gman]

37. Do you think they would blame Bush like they blamed Clinton for Ron Brown?

Bush wanted to "shut Shelby up"?

Nope, I doubt it. They never play by the same rules when it's their side.

[wuushew]

20. Who were the other two Senators?

:shrug:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

22. The other two were, Sens. James Inhofe, R-Okla., and Mel Martinez, R-Fla

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007/08/30/gop_senators_plane_shot_at_over_baghdad/7831/

[Virginia Dare]

27. Probably all simultaneously crapped their drawers too...n/t

[ProudDad]

33. Damn!!

Just missed a trifecta...

:evilgrin:

[calimary]

89. Of course, leave it to inhofe to say that's proof positive that the

insurgency is in its last throes. I think I remember the quote was something about how it proves they're losing ground and just getting more desperate.

Whatever you say, inhofe...

:eyes:

[Olney Blue]

26. "I know it wasn't our people"

Does anyone know where Cheney was at the time of the shooting?

[rateyes]

30. He was shooting quail. nt

[rucognizant]

57. Thanks for the welcome redacted.

for the belly laugh. I needed that!:rofl:

[and-justice-for-all]

29. Scandle I tell you! Pure Scandle!!!

The Surge is WORKING I say and this is nothing but a media stunt!:sarcasm: :banghead:

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gman]

36. Ya still wanna support the surge..., Senator?

Ya still wanna vote for more money after you almost bit the big one..., Senator?

[DRoseDARs]

38. I'm going to take the high road here and state that I'm glad they're OK.

I hope this incident helps serve to convince some of their more stubborn colleagues that all is NOT well in Iraq and it's time to leave.

[olddad56]

39. where was Dick Cheney when this shooting took place?

[PinkyisBlue]

40. This war has been catastrophically successful.

Now we know where 3 (of the missing 190,000) weapons/missiles are. Three down, 189,997 to go.

[thunder rising]

41. This is a lie.

I think the pilot was having a bit of fun.

At first I thought the flight was at altitude so it had to be a guided missile, but now apparently they are claiming it was a shoulder fired heat seeker.

3 missiles fired quickly enough to attack the same aircraft takes 3 people. Supposedly they were close enough to acquire the plane and fire. This would require coordination with somebody else that had a view of the runway, since the rocketeers would be hunkered down until time to fire. That's a lot of coordination.

What he saw was the flares fired from the ground as a standard precaution and the flare fired from the plane also as a precaution.

I will repeat this until everybody realizes this is ChickenHawk shit being handed out here.

[Lex1775]

47. Russian S-300 (SA-10F) has a range of 93mi. SA-21 range is 250mi

Obviously neither one of these was shot at that C-130, or it would still be burning in a sand dune somewhere... but SAM's do exist that will engage beyond 75 miles.

[thunder rising]

48. SA-21 Mysk is a myth....

told to young pilots to scare them. The Nike Hercules had a range of 200 mi ... when it hit the dirt. For AA acquisition the range was much shorter. The range of an attacking missile is also bound by the radar that guides it and the tracking of the target.

[Lex1775]

59. Possibly.

It looks like NATO has changed the designation to the S-400 Air Defense system equipped with 40NG Long Range Missiles installed on the launcher.

"40N6 Long-Range Missile
The "big" missile is intended to have a range of up to 400 km and will be able to engage over-the-horizon targets using a new seeker head developed by Almaz Central Design Bureau. This seeker can operate in both a semiactive and active mode, with the seeker switched to a search mode on ground command and homing on targets independently. Targets for this missile include airborne early warning and control aircraft as well as jammers.

This new system is intended to detect and destroy airborne targets at a distance of up to 400 km (twice the range of the MIM-104 Patriot, and 2-2.5 times greater than the previous S-300PMU system). The main difference between the PMU-2 and the S-400 is greater engagement range of the latter, about 250 miles against aircraft versus 125 miles. The anti-missile capability of the system has been increased to the limits established by the ABM Treaty demarcation agreements -- it can intercept targets with velocities of up to 4.8 km/sec, corresponding to a ballistic missile range of 3,500 km. The 40N6 has an estimated speed of around 4.8 kilometers (3 miles) per second.

During the MAKS 2003 exhibition in Moscow it was reported that state trials of the 40N6 were expected to continue through 2004, in the hope that the S-400 could finally enter service some time in 2005. As of mid-2007 work on the 40N6 missile was still under way, and this missile was to be incorporated into the S-400 batteries no sooner than 2008. Until then, the S-400 would remain little more than another incremental upgrade to the S-300P family.

It is possible that the 40N6 may never be deployed. Almaz began work on an S-500, described in September 2002 as an improvement of the Phase 2 S-400, with new missiles and radar. As of 2007 it appeared that the merged Antey-Almaz was working on the S-500 Samoderzhets (Autocrat) system, that will include elements from both the S-400 system and the long range S-300VM (Antey 2500). "

Source material was found here: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/s-400.htm

[Nihil]

73. Best guess so far

> 3 missiles fired quickly enough to attack the same aircraft takes 3 people.
> Supposedly they were close enough to acquire the plane and fire.
> ... That's a lot of coordination.
>
> What he saw was the flares fired from the ground as a standard precaution
> and the flare fired from the plane also as a precaution.

The chances of having three missile-men handy for the one plane carrying
VIPs are pretty slim but still real ... hence the smart thing to do if you
were in charge of getting them away safely would be to spend a few flares
"just in case".

The fact that the VIPs brown-trousered and are now blabbing bullshit to the
media is a bonus (though perhaps not an entirely unexpected one).

[LanternWaste]

76. The coordination of the opposition forces...

The coordination of the opposition forces is hardly what I would call impossible (or even surprising) considering they've been fighting for over five years, have access to insiders who most likely know beforehand of high-value targets flying in or out of the local airports.

It's not difficult at all for me to believe that the opposition forces organize in what we would define as para-military units-- e.g, half-squads of two to six men working in tandem with an observer.

Additionally, there's every reason for me to believe that opposition forces have much more sophistication than is being reported. It's not that much of a stretch to assume they have GPS devices, cell phones, laptops, etc. Tools that would absolutely help in bringing down helicopters and low-speed aircraft.

But that's just my $00.02

[tactics]

42. a major question

ive been to the airport. ive been in the air. ive NEVER heard of a bird being fired upon. without question, the intel was compromised. insurgents KNEW who was on that plane.
the question is...
if 3 US senators and a representative were killed, at the same time a very negative report is leaked, right before the petreaus report is doctored and sugarcoated right before another enormous supplemental war spending bill.

how many NANOSECONDS would we be still be in iraq?

[frogcycle]

51. what are you saying?

the military is trying to get themselves pulled out?

or bush is trying to get the congress to force him out?

The second one is actually kind of intriguing. Being totally incapable of ever backing down on anything, but perhaps - just perhaps - realizing he really HAS screwed the pooch, might he just double-dog-dare the congress to stop the damned thing? That is, in fact, his ONLY hope of not being permanently inscribed in granite on the Mall as the biggest fuckup in all history. If he can get congress to cut funding, force a pullout, then he can try to blame the consequences on them. Remember, "the ONLY thing wrong with the VN war was we left before the job was done." If he can get someone to drag him kicking and screaming out of there, then he can claim the same for his boondoggle.

[Ian David]

44. We're making progress. Hard work. Stay the course. n/t

[madrchsod]

52. "I know it wasn't our people," he said.

how fucking stupid is this guy? the last i read the bad guys do not have airplanes to shoot at........

[Az_lefty]

56. "the surge is working, but can I please take the bus home?"

boy, that Sen Shelby is a real quick study. I wonder if wonder boy will figure out the surge ain't workin? Probably not...

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MidwestTransplant]

60. Just like an Indiana market in the Summer.

[Adsos Letter]

61. When I first saw the name Cramer...

...I thought it was Jim Cramer, and was wondering if the collapse of the housing bubble was begining to effect "insurgent" investments...

But it was just politicos...

[nealmhughes]

71. Nope, Our Bud, from Huntsvegas, AL. Supposedly a Democrat.

Blue Dog. Loves the DoD. Loves NASA more. Boeing building a new type of missile for the next gen moon shot in Decatur in his district. He ignores the rest of the district.

[cheddar99]

62. If Cheney was shot down

they'd have to kill a thousand puppies so the people would be sad.

[minnesota_liberal]

63. Save a few for Norm

I don't want Sen. Coleman to get hurt, but it would be nice if he returned from his next "Dog and Pony show" in Iraq with an accurate view of conditions there.

[Adsos Letter]

65. When I first saw the name "Cramer"...

I thought it was Jim Cramer, and was wondering if the collapse of the housing bubble was begining to effect "insurgent" investments...

But it was just politicos...

[cheddar99]

66. Needless to say

I'm glad the pilot is okay.

[Rageneau]

68. For of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these...

It might have been.

--- JG Whittier

[RamboLiberal]

70. Marfinez & Shelby comments & info from WPost

"It was a scary moment," said Sen. Mel Martinez, R-Fla., who said he had just taken off his body armor when he saw a bright flash outside the window. "Our pilots were terrific. ... They banked in one direction and then banked the other direction, and they set off the flares."

Crew members apparently communicated to the pilots as they saw the initial RPG fired from the ground, Cramer said. After the first burst, the pilots maneuvered aggressively and set off flares used for drawing incoming fire away from aircraft.

Once the flares lit up the sky, lawmakers said, two more RPGs were fired as the pilots continued maneuvering.

Martinez said he quickly put back on his body armor.

"It was kind of dicey," Shelby said. "But it just shows you what our troops go through every day."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/?sub=AR&reload=true

[bdamomma]

74. yea, the surge is working huh? what BS!!!!!

[tanyev]

75. Think Sen. Inhofe will still say the situation in Iraq is nothing short of a miracle?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

77. C-130 carrying lawmakers dodges missiles

Source: Navy Times

WASHINGTON — A military cargo plane carrying three senators and a congressman was forced to take evasive maneuvers and dispatch flares to avoid ground fire after taking off from Baghdad.

The lawmakers said their plane, a C-130, was under fire Thursday night from three rocket-propelled grenades over the course of several minutes as they left for Amman, Jordan.

“The crew did a tremendous job in evading the missiles,” he said. “It brings home to us what our troops are going through every day in harm’s way.”

Sens. Mel Martinez, R-Fla., and James Inhofe, R-Okla., and Rep. Bud Cramer, D-Ala., were also on the plane.

Cramer and Martinez said they had just begun to relax about five or 10 minutes after the plane took off under darkness.

Read more: http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/08/gns_missile_070831/

---

But the schools are getting painted.

It's going real well.

Really it is.

[Buzz Clik]

78. James Inhofe? I can hear him pleading now:

"Dear God, I promise to stop lying. I'll quit stealing money from the government. I'll endorse global warming. I DON'T WANNA DIE!!!"

[QueenOfCalifornia]

79. And then there's...

McCain...

I like to stroll the streets of Iraq... La-dee-da!

[BOSSHOG]

80. But

when he returns to Oklahoma his adventure in the war zone will be in its infancy. In another year, he will have peered out of the C-130 porthole and shook a patriotic conservative fist at the missile shooters scaring them away. In 18-months he will have ripped open his shirt and deflected the projectiles with his manly conservative chest.

[Crowman1979]

82. LOL

manly conservative chest? More like girly conservative Manboobs! :D

[Buzz Clik]

83. ...

[lazer47]

84. In the mean time he is too busy pissing in his pants, and crying for mommie

trying to hide under the seat.

[BOSSHOG]

81. Its a shame mike pence(R) of Indiana wasn't on the flight

then he could tell us all that his flight over Iraq was just like a nice commercial trip from Indianapolis to Terre Haute. As he told us strolling through a farmers market in body gear surrounded by armed guards and helicopters hovering above was just like strolling through a farmers market back home in Indiana.

[grasswire]

86. that page has gone missing from Navy Times

How odd.

[humbled_opinion]

85. What a wonderful success this Iraq misadventure is.... now .....

we can use the same template on Iran and then maybe Syria and then maybe...... A world of war by George W. Bush....

[ohio2007]

88. just another wedding celebration taken to a whole nutha level nt