Cuban exile in Miami plans to auction Che Guevara's hair

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Cuban exile in Miami plans to auction Che Guevara's hair
Associated Press
10:42 AM EDT, September 3, 2007

MIAMI -- A former CIA operative and Cuban exile plans to auction a lock of Che Guevara's hair, snipped before the Argentinian revolutionary was buried in 1967.

Gustavo Villoldo, 71, was involved in Guevara's capture in the jungles of Bolivia, according to unclassified U.S. records and other documents. He plans to auction the strands of hair and other items kept in a scrapbook since the joint CIA-Bolivian army mission 40 years ago.

``It's time for me to put the past behind and pass these on to someone else,'' said Villoldo, also a veteran of the ill-fated Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba.

Heritage Auction Galleries of Dallas will hold the auction Oct. 25-26. The scrapbook also includes the map Villoldo used to track down Guevara in Bolivia, photographs of Guevara's body, messages intercepted between Guevara and his rebels and a set of Guevara's fingerprints taken before his burial.


Read more: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-93chehair,0,1069926.story?coll=sofla_tab01_layout

---

Below is another Cuban "exile," Felix Rodriguez, who took Che Guevara's watch, given him by his father at graduation, who has kept it all these years, very proud to wear it and boast of it to others. In the group photo at a Mexican nightclub, he's the one lying on the stage, with Porter Goss's arm on his shoulder. In the third photo, he is visiting his friend, Vice President _{George H. W. Bush} at the Vice President's home.

[1620rock]

1. Well, a lock of Che's hair would be worth a Hell of a lot more than

all of *.

[msongs]

2. get yer hair from sociopathic serial killers, only $1 a whack. How about locks from his victims,

the hundreds or perhaps thousands of people he murdered or ordered murdered?

Msongs

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

5. Che worship is probably the only thing the left has that is anywhere near as weird as Reagan worship

When I see people with some sort of human rights petition wearing Che t-shirts I just want to scream at them!

[BestCenter]

6. It's funny how that

Che shirts are usually made by capitalism.

[Judi Lynn]

7. The Cuban photographer, Alberto Korda, never accepted royalties for the use of his photo.

El Quijote de la Farola
"The Don Quixote of the Lamppost"

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

11. I would be suprised if Orange County t-shirt shops were offering him royalties,

[Judi Lynn]

12. From what I've heard it doesn't work that way. The photo is his property.

~snip~
He was happy to see it used as a revolutionary banner - but when a vodka company used it in an advertisement last year, Korda drew the line.

He filed suit in London.

"As a supporter of the ideals for which Che Guevara died, I am not averse to its reproduction by those who wish to propagate his memory and the cause of social justice throughout the world," Korda said in the autumn of 2000.

"But I am categorically against the exploitation of Che's image for the promotion of products such as alcohol, or for any purpose that denigrates the reputation of Che."

Korda won an out-of-court settlement of about $50,000, which he donated to the Cuban medical system.

"If Che were still alive, he would have done the same," Korda told the Reuters news agency.

Korda's other memorable photos include shots of the victorious rebels arriving in Havana and Quixote of the Lamp Post, which shows a Cuban man sitting on a lamp post in a sea of people listening to a Castro speech.
(snip/...)http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1352650.stm

[EFerrari]

15. (There's a wonderful interview with Korda in the documentary

"The Buena Vista Social Club" where he leafs through his work and gives a wonderful running commentary. :thumbsup:

[robinlynne]

9. If you had lived in Latin America, or anywhere in the third world, perhaps you

would see Che differently. He is still a hero for MILLIONS of people. Remember Latin American countries were bought and sold by the CIA. In each one of those countries, thousands of people were murdered in different ways so American corporations could keep a higher profit margin. Che is the kind of hero in South America that Martin Luther King is to Americans. Maybe more so. (bad analogy I know, but you get the point I hope.)

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

10. a death sqaud is a death squad - their politics don't interest me.

[Judi Lynn]

13. Please post any information you've got on Che Guevara's death squads.

Otherwise, it would be safe to assume you are in deep confusion about for whom the Cuban death squads worked.

The U.S. and Mafia-supported murderous Batista dictatorship did have death squads, very notably being "Masferrer's Tigres."

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

16. your the one who needs an education in the Cuban Revolution!

Che personally ordered 216 executions during the revolution 1957-1959 - and according to the not exactly unsympathetic "Che Guevara: A Biography" claimed responsibility for 2500 more before leaving Cuba. (signed death warrants, just like dubya)

Che also had a personal death squad he used to dispatch revolutionaries he suspected of being soft, traitors or deserters - usually based on little more than paranoia.

[Thickasabrick]

19. I agree to disagree - the CIA was responsible for taking him out.

That makes the anti-Che propaganda highly suspect.

[Judi Lynn]

20. Would you provide links so we can see your sources? Thanks. n/t

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

22. I gave you the source "Che Guevara: A Biography"

There is a complete list of the documented revolutionary killings (supported by death warrants) in "The Human Cost of Social Revolution" by Dr. A.M. Lago

While liberals might get weak in the knees for all the romantic revolution stuff - che was a ruthless killer - his ruthlessness as an executioner was a significant source of personal pride for Che, he saw it as a cleansing process.

[Judi Lynn]

27. Your source, Armando M. Lago is a South Florida Cuba "exile."

He has worked for U.S. taxpayer-financed (economic black hole for the hard-working U.S. taxpayers, pork barrel bonanza for "exiles") totally "exile" operated and staffed national joke, Radio Marti. (When Democratic Congressman David Skaggs of Colorado attempted to cut the budget of Radio/TV Marti, Republican Cuban "exile" Congressman Lincoln Diaz-Balart threatened him, went after him, and axed all the projects Skaggs had for Colorado, then, with the financing of the Cuban American National Foundation, took out adds in newspapers in Colorado to tell everyone Skaggs had lost their projects, and Skaggs lost his next election. I call that FILTHY. Typical. Obnoxious, typical me-first "exile" politics.)

Staying close to the government payroll. He's a hot one, all right. Miami, Hialeah, etc. Cuban right-wingers are famous for their great integrity, except for their abysimal record on free speech in South Florida, and terrorism, having been condemned by Human Rights Watch for their chokehold on free speech, their refusal to allow ANYONE to get out of line on Cuba around there, will NOT allow any difference of opinion, even to the point of BOMBING people who hold different views, and by the FBI, which called the Miami area "America's Terror Capital."

Oh, yes. There's also the record going back decades of wildly crooked elections, even before _Bush stole the Presidency, and they are well known for their astonishingly crooked city government. Wildly, brazenly crooked.

~snip~
......Armando M. Lago was on the payroll of the US Government, through TV Marti's Office of Research.
(snip)
http://cubantriangle.blogspot.com/2007/07/summer-nights-dream.html

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

30. if you don't like that source then read about it in Che Guevara: A Biography

a very sympathetic biography, remember these executions were a source of PRIDE for Che.

You guys are having difficulties with the contradictions between Che the brand and Che the man.

[Judi Lynn]

32. Well, I found a reference to the book you mentioned, "Che Guevara: A Biography"

which gave the name "Daniel James" as the author.

I looked him up and learned he, also, has a right-wing cast:

January 3, 1996
N.Y. TIMES SHUNS "COMMUNISM"

Communism may not be dead, but the word and its derivatives are obviously not welcome in obituaries in The New York Times. When our long-time friend and colleague at Accuracy in Media, Bernard Yoh, died recently, we provided the media with an obituary that said he had dedicated most of his life to the fight against communism, both with bullets and with ideas. It said one of his ideas was that the Free World should have as its goal a world without communism.

The New York Times ran an obituary, but it omitted all references to Bernie's anti-communist ideas and activities. In an obituary of a man who had devoted most of his life to fighting communism, that word was not mentioned once.

But this was not unique. When Daniel James, another distinguished warrior in this battle, died in December 1994, The New York Times excised from his obituary all references to his affiliation with the anti-communist magazine, "The New Leader," and to the books he wrote exposing communist efforts to take over Guatemala, Cuba and Bolivia.
(snip)

http://www.aim.org/publications/weekly_column/1996/01/nytimes.htm

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

33. read the damn book,

It is actually quite sympathetic and written as a profile of a revolutionary, it was also written closer to his time before he became Che™

What you idolize as a progressive figure is a creation of popular culture, the man was a brutal and violent revolutionary, most revolutionaries are. This wasn't Michael Moore!

The executions are not disputed events - there are significant archives in Cuba available to researchers on crimes against the revolution. Now if you want to see ridiculous and inaccurate you should see those files -guys were getting shot for patronizing a mafia brothel.

[Judi Lynn]

34. You learned this from an editor of an anti-communist magazine.

Your other author is right wing.

I doubt these right-wingers have anything that "speaks" to the rest of the world, and the right-wing world is going to be getting smaller and smaller, as they cut loose more and more of the middle class in their search for greater profits and cheaper labor, and take up the draw bridge over which an occassional middle class person climbed above his old income level. You have noted, hopefully, articles which indicate upward mobility is only an illusion now.

Not a good prospect for right-wingers. Maybe rather than trying to figure out how to demonize the very people who are trying to help the suffering, down-trodden, exploited people of the world, they should be spending some of that energy on re-orienting themselves and waking the #### up, and discovering life is NOT all about greed and power.

After they kill off everyone who won't work as a slave for them, they're not going to have a lot of company on the dying planet.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

35. anti-communist doesn't = right wing, anti-communist = anti-authoritarian

Che was not a warm and soft Scandanavian socialist!

[Judi Lynn]

36. What posters here do you imagine would buy "anti-communist = anti-authoritarian?"

Many, MANY of them know quite a bit about the history of U.S. right-wing Presidents in Latin America. Too bad most of us had to learn it years after it happened, since they did it behind everyones' backs.

You're not going to sell ANYONE of moderate intelligence on a claim that the world's rigid, anal, racist right-wingers aren't also authoritarians. That just won't work. Not now, not ever.

On edit, sorry, am in too much of a hurry. The most hideous, fiendish, bloodthirsty dictators in Latin America got substantial backing from our own right-wing Presidents, a vast outpouring of U.S. taxpayers' hard-earned money, and enough propaganda to live on for the rest of our lives flowing from the propgandists working to sell the hostility, and they got this kind of "love" from Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Ford, BECAUSE they sold themselves as rabid anti-communists, who would gladly have their soldiers and death squads massacre entire villages under the pretense they were ridding the world of "commies" and "commie sympathizers," when what they were really doing was practising the kind of terror that brought entire countries of broken, ravaged people to their knees.

It worked for them, but the feelings remain. People STILL hate their ####ing guts.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

37. I never said they were not, facism and communism are both authoritarian in nature,

I'm sorry your cartoon mascot for socialism isn't as cute as Tinkerbell,

[Judi Lynn]

38. He's not my mascot, my socialism, my cartoon. Sorry. It's a time-waster

to attempt to talk down to me.

He was, however, amazingly handsome. You don't see that in right-wingers, for some reason.



Jesse Helms, Mitch McConnell, Purple Heart Bandage winner

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

39. you seem to be equating everything to the right of revolutionary communism with facism

and your saying I am a time waster?

What Democrat living or dead could possibly be met with your approval?

[Judi Lynn]

40. EQUATING! No, you are attempting to smear me. You are most surely on the wrong track.

Stay on the subject. Don't veer away into odd assertions and charges.

Attempting to slur my politics, are you? "Living or dead" Democrat? I ARE a Democrat, the people I care about are Democrats. You should not attempt to make personal attacks on posters. That's most clearly off topic. You know that.

[LanternWaste]

78. Now you've simply become disingenuous and condescending.

Now you've simply become disingenuous and condescending. Pity, that-- as you initially had what appeared to be some rather salient points.

[Vogon_Glory]

48. I Would

<<What posters here do you imagine would buy "anti-communist = anti-authoritarian?". I would. I am also also better-read than most Americans about Latin-American history and better-read than many DU readers, for that matter. I believe that it's entirely possible to oppose Communism AND the squalid right-wing military dictatorships littering Latin-American history from before Independence almost up to the present day.

To lump all opponents of Marxist-leninist dictatorship in with the worst of the right-wing authoritarian kleptocrats is contemptible as the Heritage Foundation's attempt to whitewash the genocides of the Guatemalan government by claiming that Rigoberta Menchu was a "liar."

[Judi Lynn]

49. You are wildly off base claiming I "lump all opponents of Marxist-leninist dictatorship

in with the worst of the right-wing authoritarian kleptocrats."

You've overreached the material posted here, and you've overreached everything I've ever seen posted here by Democrats.

Gather your thoughts, and apply a little common sense before writing. You're attempting to wildly fling red-baiting labels around here and that's completely inappropriate.

Provide the evidence for whatever it is you're attempting to say.

[Vogon_Glory]

67. Not hardly...

<< You are wildly off-base claiming I "lump all opponents of Marxist-leninist dictatorship in with the worst of right-wing kleptocrats."

Not hardly. I don't think I've overreached at all. I've read your posts for years. Your style of "anti-anti-communist" polemics has far, far more often than not lumped in ANY opposition to left-wing authoritarianism with support for right-wing kleptocracy or right-wing dictatorships.

[Judi Lynn]

70. Your claim of "left-wing authoritarianism" presumably applies to Hugo Chavez, and Fidel Castro.

I am aware of the propaganda measures which have been in operation here (this country) for ages. I advocate Democrats try to penetrate what they've been told, and do it on their own, as it's so unlikely they will find out too much from the current media, getting less professional and conscientious every day.

Latin American countries trying to save their people from a future of similar suffering are getting trashed in our corporate media, but that's the way it goes. Time ALWAYS uncovers the truth, eventually, even with the enormous investment of hard-working propagandists. The pattern, when exposed, is ALWAYS the same, in every case. Horrible, godawful things have happened, are still happening, and intense measures have been and are taken to keep American citizens from understanding what is at stake.

If more people knew the truth, the war mongers wouldn't be able to summons the support they MUST have in order to keep control.

Once people see the pattern, they can't be fooled again!

[0007]

57. Holy crap, it is a shame you have no idea what you're talking about...nt

Take about 'Red Baiting" .. LOL!

[Vogon_Glory]

68. And we're supposed to believe that you do? n/t

[Judi Lynn]

71. He certainly does. Don't turn and attack 0007. He's an excellent person. n/t

[Vogon_Glory]

77. And Lillian Hellman was a truthful person, too. n/t

[0007]

81. LOL! Looks like the same ignorance is at it again, 'eh?....

You cannot have a theory without principles. Principles is another name for prejudices.
- "Literature" speech

[ProudDad]

73. Then maybe we need some more of these

"the man was a brutal and violent revolutionary, most revolutionaries are" 'cause the other ain't workin'

[mitchum]

59. I have no problem with Che's violence and "ruthlessness"...

he was a revolutionary and it goes with the territory. It is how one really gets things done.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

75. that's cool,

just don't expect me to take you too seriously when you want me to sign your anti-death penalty or other human rights petition while you head to toe in Che™ logowear,

[mitchum]

76. I am the last person who would ever present you (or anyone) with an anti-death penalty...

petition.
I am a firm believer in that dead men do no more mischief (or enjoy the fruits of their mischief)

[Name removed]

31. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maribelle]

25. How many Indians did the settlers execute stealing the land now the U.S.A?

Both are tragic.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

28. yeah, tragic - but nobody is making any of them out to be the great progressive hero

let me know when teenagers are wearing this on their t-shirt,

[Judi Lynn]

29. Custer lived to KILL native citizens, Che Guevara died trying to SAVE native citizens. n/t

[ngant17]

42. I would question that information

I mean, were you there to verify that these people were totally innocent and were not guilty of any war crimes during the Batista regime? The Batista regime brought a lot of that on itself.

The same thing happened during the US Civil War, any revolution anywhere, you're going to find cases of summary execution or 'field-expedient' justice.

There were trials in Cuba, and some people got what they deserved. Some probably didn't deserve execution, but it wasn't possible to have a semblance of a civil society during the time when the US was also waging covert and overt terrorist campaigns against Cuba.

I can't apologize for their mistakes, but I don't see the Cuban Revolution as being much different than any other revolution, there was a period of violence and war, but fortunately in Cuba's case, it was resolved to the betterment of a new society based on socialism.

Besides, when Pres. **** was Governor of Texas, he personally signed off on 150 death warrants. And this was during peace-time, not during a revolutionary period. How do you think modern-day Cuba compares against the current record in the USA for executing prisoners?

[JVS]

46. 216 is not millions. Sounds about typical of a US governor

[robinlynne]

24. Thanks Judi. looks like we have a crazy/confused or worse.

[0007]

58. I'll second that! Judi does indeed take these ignoramuses to school. n/t

[Maribelle]

26. The Motorcycle Diaries

There was a movie on the other day made from Che's diaries of his long trip in 1952 from Argentina across to Chile, up into Peru, where he worked for three weeks at a leper colony in northern Peru on the Amazon, then on to Venezuela.

The Diaries have proven to be true.

Watching Che go through his metamorphose from a dashing young medical student to a revolutionary, wanting a United America, was amazing. Seeing the recreation of the issues and conditions which changed his world view was extremely informative.

[BreweryYardRat]

56. Exactly.

I've NEVER understood people who wear Che t-shirts.

[ProudDad]

74. I occasionally wear a "Che" button

For me it represents resistance against the most evil, destructive force on Earth -- corporate capitalism...

[robinlynne]

8. Are you calling Guevara a serial killer?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

17. given most here have no objection for calling the Texecutioner a murderer - it seems appropriat

[ngant17]

43. you might as well call George Washington a serial killer, too

as there were no doubt a number of well-known Americans who participated in fighting against the British in 1776 and the war of 1812.

Any US Army general who was involved in any one of the numerous Indian wars during the 19th-century USA would also meet that definiton.

[Thickasabrick]

3. Wow...look at that guy hiding his face with his jacket. I wonder who

that is? Great article. I hope the guy gets squat.

K&R

[Judi Lynn]

4. Here's a large photo. The caption says he's "Tosh Plumlee."

The group was called "Operation 40."



This photograph was taken in a nightclub in Mexico City on 22nd January, 1963. It is believed that the
men in the photograph are all members of Operation 40. Closest to the camera on the left is Felix Rodriguez.
Next to him is Porter Goss and Barry Seal. Tosh Plumlee is attempting to hide his face
with his coat. Others in the picture are Alberto 'Loco' Blanco (3rd right) and Jorgo Robreno (4th right).

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKseal.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Found this in a quick search for Tosh Plumlee:

Robert Tosh Plumlee was born in 1937. He joined the United States Army in April 1954 and was assigned to the Texas 49th Armored Division. Later he was transferred to Dallas where he joined the 4th Army Reserve Military Intelligence Unit.

After leaving the army Plumlee worked as an aircraft mechanic before obtaining his pilot's license in 1956. Soon afterwards he began work as a pilot for clandestine CIA flights. This included working for William Harvey, Tracy Barnes and Rip Robertson. Plumlee also transported arms to Cuba before Castro took power. Plumlee was also associated with Operation 40.

In 1962 Plumlee was assigned to Task Force W which operated at the time from the JM/WAVE station in Miami. Plumlee claimed that in November, 1963, he was a co-pilot on a top secret flight supported by the CIA. Plumlee's flight left Florida on 21st November and stopped in New Orleans and Houston before reaching Dallas in the early morning hours of 22nd November. On board was Johnny Roselli. Plumlee testified that their assignment was to stop the planned assassination of John F. Kennedy.

Plumlee also worked as an undercover operative and contract pilot for the federal government during the "Drug War" during the presidency of Ronald Reagan.

In 1977 Plumlee testified before Frank Church and his Select Committee on Intelligence Activities. He also testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1990 and 1991.
(snip/)

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKplumlee.htm

[Thickasabrick]

18. Cool....thanks for the research!!! I bet there is alot more about

him that will never be published. He looks really paranoid about something.

[Judi Lynn]

41. You bet he does! Sorry, just saw your post for the first time. You just don't see guys doing that

every day. He must have been VERY afraid of someone's recognizing him.

It's such an odd name, it's easy to remember, if something ever comes up about him in the future.

Strange group of people.

[Judi Lynn]

65. whutgives, you may find the following link interesting. Click on the numbered files

in the left column, for PDF reports from the FBI, CIA, etc.

http://toshplumlee.info /

[mitchum]

62. "Mister Plumlee" is certainly a nasty piece of work, isn't he?

[Judi Lynn]

64. Mitchum! Look what I found! I hope

will see this.

I'm sorry, but I'm in a huge rush get elsewhere for a while, but I just found this link, after seeing your post, and recalling "whutgives" also had mentioned Plumlee.

This looks very interesting. Just click on the file listed in the left column, the numbered pdf files, at this link:

http://toshplumlee.info/

They are: FBI/DEA/CIA files on William Robert "Tosh" Plumlee

The following FBI/DEA/CIA files were released between the years 1981 and 1999. These United States government files are placed here for review by professional researchers, law enforcement officials and by the general public. A responsible review of these documents should provide the reader with a clear picture of the covert background of Tosh Plumlee.
A careful review of these documents will reveal that the United States Department of Justice has been guilty of obstruction of justice since 1963 and before.


The first numbered file starts off immediately talking about Johnny Roselli, the Mafia thug. I just scanned the first three, due to excessive haste!

I really hope there's some interesting stuff in this collection.

[Judi Lynn]

21. Same here! I hope he ends up with a total failure of interest.Maybe he can make a false mustache. nt

[Name removed]

14. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudDad]

23. Exactly the kind of psychotic

who would love to "grab back their property" in Cuba...

[Octafish]

44. Operation 40 Crowd given Operation MONGOOSE assignments...

Mass murderers. Drug dealers. Terrorists. Traitors. Members of Team Bush.

[rudeboy666]

45. Kill your idols

Any criticism of the 'Che' the icon generates either automatic denials or evasions. The legitimate debate over his true life is consequently pushed under the rug.

Che should not be held above criticism just because he became an iconic figure. Hero worship is intellectual laziness.

[Judi Lynn]

47. No one here worships Che Guevara, nor are any of the Democrats here intellectually lazy.

Throwing insults around at posters, attempting to demean them, label them is loathesome.

If the conversation doesn't go your way, let it go. You don't attack the posters.

[cali]

50. And all the children are above average.

There's an insane amount of hero worship around here.

[Judi Lynn]

52. Address the material. DO NOT attack the posters. Easy to remember. n/t

[cali]

53. I attacked no one. That's called a general observation.

That should be easy to remember too. And thank you very much, but I don't need YOU to tell me what to address and what not to address.

[Judi Lynn]

54. Point out the incidents of worship on this thead. If you have charges, or "observations," prove them

If you don't have proof, you're clearly in error attempting to veer away from the subject and take aim at the posters, which is discouraged.

[cali]

55. I said nothing about anyone on this thread. n/t

As far as the thread topic goes, heck I'll weigh in: I find it repugnant that this sleaze is auctioning off hair.

[sufrommich]

66. I've yet to see you

discourage anyone who agrees with you from taking aim at posters . Where is your feigned outrage at this?

Mika (1000+ posts) Mon Sep-03-07 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
14. Nothing like a Che thread to bring out the trolls.
Or this:
robinlynne (1000+ posts) Mon Sep-03-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. Thanks Judi. looks like we have a crazy/confused or worse.

That's called taking aim at posters (crazy/confused,troll? "Proof" please) and yet, not a peep from you. No "concern" about veering away from the subject. Funny that.

[Judi Lynn]

72. Thanks for your concern. Please address the subject, do not attack the posters.

If you're having a hard time with it, put everyone on "ignore."

Do not attempt to scuffle with me. Do you have something to add to the discussion about the subject?

[Marrah_G]

80. Arrogance and bullying are truly ugly. n/t

[sufrommich]

83. "Do not attempt to scuffle with me."

LOL !! Is that a threat?

[Marrah_G]

79. Just run your posts by Judi before hitting send

That way she can tell you if the content is permissible.

Disagreement will not be tolerated!

[Forkboy]

82. Apparently it IS permitted.

You posted didn't you? :eyes:

[ProudDad]

69. That's your perverse interpretation... (n/t)

[robinlynne]

61. Actually I think Che was a great hero.

[Peace Patriot]

51. The fact that one of the people who killed Che Guevara is auctioning off his hair

tells you all you need to know about the forces that Che was fighting. This is the Bush Junta mentality--brutish, ugly, callous, sadistic, fascist--the same sort of people who now, in Colombia, are chainsawing union leaders and throwing their body parts into mass graves, and are hatching plots to assassinate democratic leaders and destabilize their countries (Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador) to restore fascist dictatorships--funded by the Bushites, and lionized by the worst elements in the Cuban exile community in Florida. Violent revolution is understandable in some circumstances. Our own country was founded by means of violent revolution. Circumstances in Latin America before and during the Cuban revolution, and for some time afterward, left no options for many people who were in revolt against horrendous oppression. Today--after decades of hard work on democratic institutions by many brave and visionary people, and many many hard lessons--there is another option: democratic change. In Che's time, there was no such option. Democracy would arise and it would be smashed to pieces by the U.S. in collusion with brutal local fascists, all in the interest of U.S. corporations.

It makes no more sense to criticize Che Guevara for killing fascists and traitors to the revolution than it makes to criticize George Washington for doing the same in the cause of the American revolution, or Simon Bolivar (leader of the forces that freed Latin America from colonial rule) who also killed many people. I think the important thing about the Cuban revolution is that it did NOT go Stalinist and engage in massive death and repression. That is no doubt one of the reasons it has survived.

But you can hold Simon Bolivar and Che Guevara up as heroes without condoning violent revolution. They were responding to their times. We respond to ours. Democracy is now winning in South America, due to the dauntless courage and foundational work of grass roots groups and other progressives. Peaceful revolution is happening and is in fact sweeping the continent. Hugo Chavez, for instance, was right on the cusp of this change. As a young man, he was involved in a plot of leftists in the military to overthrow a brutal rightwing government in Venezuela, spent time in jail for it, became a hero to the common people IN JAIL, and emerged with a commitment to peaceful, democratic change, ran for president and won. The times they are a-changin'.

[mitchum]

60. What? The US tax $$$$$$ that Batista loving pig has been getting for decades...

isn't enough? He needs to pick up some extra cash?
May his end be painful.

[Judi Lynn]

63. Truly! Just his presence in the country deteriorates our quality of life! n/t

[Judi Lynn]

84. Anyone up for some interesting reading? "Che Guevara and the FBI: The U.S. Political Police Dossier"

Che Guevara and the FBI: The U.S. Political Police Dossier on the Latin American Revolutionary. - book reviews
Monthly Review, April, 1998 by James D. Cockcroft

Michael Ratner and Michael Steven Smith, Che Guevara and the FBI: The U.S. Political Police dossier on the Latin American revolutionary (Melbourne and New York: Ocean Press, 1997) $18.95 , pp. 213.

Che Guevara and the FBI is a bombshell. It reproduces and annotates a selection of documents on Che Guevara from FBI files obtained under the Freedom of Information Act. Huge chunks of the materials have been blackened out, but what remains is still devastating.
(snip)

The FBI started its dossier on Che in 1952, when apparently Che was in Miami. The FBI photocopied his passport and took his fingerprints. A 1958 CIA document asserts that Che "had a police record in Miami," where he "was arrested and interrogated during the Korean War" (p. 31). Yet a 1964 CIA report says that upon his arrival in Miami Che "was turned back by U.S. immigration authorities" (p. 117).

Reliability of reports submitted to U.S. security agencies is always problematic, because the informants are often contradictory, prejudiced, self-serving, and stupid. One report alleges that Cubans will not cotton to communism because they like "to idle in the sun or dance to their native rhythms" (p. 6). Others include these CIA gems on Che relayed to the FBI in the 1956-66 period (pp. 20-25, 89, 115, 127, 137, 171):

* Che "never studied medicine."

* Che "has no negro strain in him.

* Che "hates to wash and will never do so."

* Che "is fairly intellectual for a 'Latino'."

* Che's "attitude towards the U.S. is dictated...by somewhat childish emotionalism and jealousy and resentment."

* Che is a "Cuban citizen by birth."

* Che "seems" to follow the "Chinese Communist Party line."

* Che had disappeared or was dead because he and Fidel had a falling out, yet Che's mysterious absence was not "motivated by problems with Fidel."

* Che's farewell letter to the Cuban people was "fictitious."

* Che was killed while landing on the coast of the Dominican Republic in a "yellow-painted pocket submarine."

The CIA began its spying on Che in 1954 when Che was one of millions of voices protesting the CIA-directed military coup that overthrew Guatemala's democratically elected president Jacobo Arbenz in order to protect United Fruit Company's idle lands being distributed to peasants. By the time of Che's 1956 arrest in Mexico City, U.S. spy agencies had bundles of reports on him. This suggests that they probably had files on thousands of other Latin Americans who at the time were not well known.
(snip/...)

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1132/is_n11_v49/ai_20931199

[Judi Lynn]

85. Short, interesting account by journalist Richard Gott who was in Bolivia when they brought in dead

guy, Che Guevara, and he mentions seeing Gustavo Villodo, the gusano who is trying to sell the lock of hair. This article was writen in 1997:

~snip~
The two doctors from the hospital were probing the wounds in his neck and my first reaction was to assume that they were searching for the bullet, but in fact they were preparing to put in the tube that would conduct the formalin into his body to preserve it. One of the doctors began cleaning Che's hands, which were covered with blood. But otherwise there was nothing repellent about the body. He looked astonishingly alive. His eyes were open and bright, and when they took his arm out of his jacket, they did so without difficulty. I do not believe that he had been dead for many hours, and at the time I did not believe that he had been killed after his capture. We all assumed that he had died of his wounds and lack of medical attention sometime early on Monday morning.

The humans round the body were more repellent than the dead: a nun who could not help smiling and sometimes laughed aloud; officers who came with their expensive cameras to record the scene; and the agent from the CIA, who seemed to be in charge of the operation and looked furious whenever anyone pointed a camera in his direction. "Where do you come from?" we asked in English, jokingly adding, "From Cuba? From Puerto Rico?" But he was not amused, and curtly replied in English, "From nowhere."

Later we asked him again, but this time he replied in Spanish, "Que dice?" and pretended not to understand. He was a short, stocky man in his mid-30s, with sunken piggy eyes and little hair. It was difficult to tell whether he was a North American or a Cuban exile, for he spoke English and Spanish with equal facility and without trace of an accent. Subsequently I discovered that his name was Gustavo Villoldo, and he lives to this day in Miami. I wrote of his presence in Vallegrande in an article for the Guardian, but it was another year before any mention appeared in the mainstream US press.

After half an hour we withdrew from the hut to drive back to Santa Cruz, and send out our reports. It was already nightfall and we did not get back till early on Tuesday 10 October. There was no telegraph office, and I took a plane to La Paz, from where I was able to send my report. It was published on the front page of the Guardian that day.

On the plane I bumped into Major "Pappy" Shelton, who said simply: "Mission accomplished!"
(snip/)

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2005/Che-Guevara-Gott11aug05.htm

[View from Here]

86. How Che got picked as finance minister

Fidel gathered the revolutionary leaders in a room and began to assign ministerial posts to them. At one point he asked, "who knows about economy?" Che immediately raised his hand. "You are the finance minister," said Fidel. "Why?" said Che. "Because you said you know about economy," said Fidel. "I didn't say I know anything about economy," Che replied, "I said I knew something about communism."