High School Student to McCain: You're No Leader

[sabra]

Source: ABC News

<snip>

William Sleaster, a student at Concord High School rose to ask McCain a question about gay rights and, ultimately dissatisfied by the answer he received from McCain, told the Republican presidential contender that he'd come looking to see a leader and didn't.

...

Sleaster pressed on. “Do you support civil unions or gay marriage?”

“I do not,” McCain answered. “I think that they impinge on the status and the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman.”

“So you believe in taking away someone’s rights because you believe it’s wrong?”

...

“I came here looking to see a leader,” Sleaster said. “I don’t.”

The assembled students murmured, and a teacher started to step in.

“I understand,” McCain said. “I thank you. That’s what America is all about.”

Read more: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/09/high-school-stu.html

[TwilightGardener]

1. Pretty harsh. But McCain handled it well.

[redqueen]

4. is it really harsh?

i think this country mollycoddles our elected leaders

we need to stop doing that

[VLC]

5. I agree. Not harsh enough.

Plus, did everyone miss the " teacher started to step in" bit? I.e., the guest was being made uncomfortable and it was time to silence the kid.

[TwilightGardener]

6. I think telling someone to his face that's he's not a leader, in front

of an audience, is further than most adults would be willing to go--high school kids are unpredictable. But the kid had a right to express himself, and McCain had a right to state his views--nothing went wrong here.

[redqueen]

9. most adults are cowards, then

this is just a kid with one throwaway comment

it should be CONGRESS and they should be GRILLING these fucks

[TwilightGardener]

16. I don't think its cowardice. I think it's empathy. Most adults

know what it's like to interview for a big, important job, or have to make a public presentation, and thus would hesitate to give a frank assessment face-to-face and in public. An adult would think privately, that's not a leader, and then just not vote for him. Kids, bless 'em, have no such inhibitions.

[napi21]

57. I think it was good that this kid was blunt. I'm sure no kid anymore,

and you're right, adults do tend to put themselves in the spot of the presenter. I prefer stating the same thing but in a stealthier manner. Something like "Senator, don't you realize the majority of Americans disagree with your opinion, and if you were the leader of the Country, you would be going against the will of it's people?"

[The Doctor.]

68. That 'empathy' is screwing us.

If 'empathy' is the reason this administration isn't being held accountable, then we need more assholes to do the job.

"We can't have them arrested for ignoring subpoenas because that would make them feel bad."

-Bullshit. There's absolutely no doubt that if the dems were ignoring repub subpoenas, the repubs would invoke inherent contempt the next day.

My point is that when a person, an adult, is in a position of great responsibility, they should never be coddled when it comes to the impact of their actions and policies. Screw that.

The kid's point was blunt, but if you're saying adults aren't willing to put each-other on the spot out of 'empathy', then really they're just treating each-other like kids.

[peaches2003]

90. Agree, and....

even more it should be the press Their job is to represent the people and question our leaders. Since Bush has been in office they do little more giggle at his jokes. I think the Founding Fathers made a terrible mistake not instituting a Parliamentary system. Can you imagine Bush standing up in front of Congress weekly and having to explain himself. If this was our system at the very least he would never have had a 2nd term.

[redqueen]

91. Thank you!

:thumbsup:

[atreides1]

10. What are McCain's Views

McCains View I:“Discrimination in any form is unacceptable in America today,” McCain said.


McCains View II:“I do not,” McCain answered. “I think that they impinge on the status and the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman.”

He states that discrimination in any form is unacceptable, and then insinuates that to discriminate against Gays regarding marriage is okay. So what exactly is McCain saying?

[TwilightGardener]

12. Yikes, I'm not defending McCain's views.

[ProudDad]

67. That he's a power hungry hypocrite

As are they all...




except maybe Kucinich...

[MessiahRp]

82. The problem with Republicans is

They know they're wrong and hypocritical on these issues. So the only way to sound like a reasonable person is to say, "This is a debate we need to have and should continue having". That way they don't seem as blatantly bigoted by the decision they have already made regardless of future debate on this issue. There is no further debate to be had with these people, they have made up their mind: Discriminate at all costs.

The problem is the media and people who claim to be reasonable accept that "we need this debate and should continue it" line in infinite terms so the debate never ends and no reasonable resolution will ever be had by these people. It gives them political cover for the inevitable votes they make in the future to continue discrimination. The only way continuance of debate works is when these people are voted out or die off and another group of Congressmen, possibly with less discriminating viewpoints, take up the next generation's vote.

But if these politicians had their way, this debate would continue indefinitely so they never have to change their views in their lifetime and they can continue to use anti-gay bigotry to slime people and win elections.

It's a sick and twisted manner in which these despicable people operate.

Rp

[DU9598]

47. Obama Rally in Des Moines

At a recent gathering of GLBT in the community, Obama was asked whether he supported marriage equality. When he stumbled around the issue a few in the crowd suggested that what he was setting forth as his policy was nothing better than "separate but equal". Senator Obama was upset by the heated nature of the debate. It is time that Democrats start speaking up to our candidates on marriage equality. Perhaps this is near and dear to my heart at the moment because of my state's recent legal decision invalidating the state's 'defense' of marriage act.

I say congrats to this student. You gave us all a lesson in democracy.

[ProudDad]

65. We wouldn't be mired in Iraq

if a few "adults" had posed just these sorts of questions to the shrub when he and the crew were spouting their obvious lies and exaggerations during the PR push to invade Iraq.

Those are EXACTLY the kind of questions the M$M should be asking...

Don't blame one H.S. kid for voicing his TRUTH, for speaking truth to power, blame the cowardice of the "adults" for not voicing theirs...

[BlueEyedSon]

80. McCain's views are fit for a theocracy, not America.

[ooglymoogly]

93. Nothing went wrong except exposing a bigot for what he is.

a hat tip to this gutsy kid who's already figured out some truths and doesn't shrink from his duty under the constitution of exposing assaults on it, like 90% of the rest of the slumbering crowd watching their freedoms float away on a tsunami of blood.

[saigon68]

19. CHIMP LOVE

[L0oniX]

102. Wash your arm pits please ....El Stinko!

[JerseygirlCT]

85. Just what I was thinking. Our idea of "harsh" wrt politicians has

been entirely warped.

I think the kid was right on, and I applaud him. (And BTW, I would have applauded him if he'd asked the same question and gotten the same answer from a Dem.)

[Cronopio]

98. Not harsh, direct and accurate.

McCain's selling out to the Dark Side is what earned him that comment.

I see it as a gentle reminder that not all of us are conned by his bs.

[atreides1]

7. Not Harsh at All

It wasn't harsh, it was the truth and maybe that's what's needed.

[TwilightGardener]

11. No matter WHO the candidate is, people's opinions (and they are not necessarily the truth)

can be harsh. McCain actually does have some leadership qualities, though they are in short supply of late. He kept up the morale of his fellow POW's during his imprisonment, he had a very good run for a while in 2000, and he did get campaign finance reform through, and was fairly influential in the Senate for a time. Obviously, his answer disappointed this kid, and this kid told him so--and had every right to. But people who know a candidate's back story might wince. I do, and would wince for anyone up there, D or R, facing that kind of judgment--I guess I'm just a political softie.

[sailor65]

26. Also,

he probably brought more weight to the anti-tortue table than anyone else.

No, I'm not planning to vote for him, but we do have to recognize that he's contributed something of value.

[TwilightGardener]

28. Yes--he had a lot of credibility/authority on that issue, and did speak out about it.

[redqueen]

18. yes, it was the truth

people in this country aren't used to hearing it

[AngryOldDem]

29. Harsh? I don't think so.

If you hold a certain position, you should be able to explain **why** you hold it. That doesn't mean people have to agree with it.

The kid just spoke truth to power. He saw bullshit, and he called it. Nothing wrong with that, especially in these times.

[Maestro]

54. Pretty harsh?

Not quite. He didn't handle it well at all. He simply spewed out that BS about protecting the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. The fact that gays get married does not weaken my marriage. Utter BS answer. I'm glad the kid slammed him.

[against all enemies]

86. Telling the truth is harsh? No wonder this country is screwed.

[HughBeaumont]

2. If only more people said this to the Failure Fuhrer . . .

. . . if they were ALLOWED, that is . . .

[BOSSHOG]

3. "Impinge on the status"

McCain you are a fucking idiot. When will the fuckers who want the gop nomination for anything understand they do not have to enslave themselves to christian religious zealots who don't give a fuck about anybody's constitutional rights but their own? The student was right.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

63. And those zealots want to 'impinge' on everyone else, not the other way around. n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

64. And those zealots want to 'impinge' on everyone else, not the other way around. n/t

[Tyler Durden]

8. Vote #5

And happy to do it.

McCain is a bloated fat cat, drunk on power and thirsty for a 200 proof shot of the Presidency. EVERYWHERE he goes someone should call him on this: SHOW ME the definition of "Marriage" in the Federal Constitution. It ain't there, and Dog willing, it never will be.

[redwitch]

13. I just don't understand McCain's statement. It's stupid. Really stupid.

As a woman who just celebrated 25 years of marriage to my husband I would like to know how giving legal status and protections to gay and lesbian couples impinges on the status or sanctity of us in any way. The kid is right.
Gay marriage is a subject near and dear to my heart. My friends can't get married and that is wrong. It makes me feel terrible for them and their 9 year old son. They are excellent parents, valued members of the community who contribute much to the quality of life here. It just occurred to me as I was typing this that their NOT being able to get married is what impinges on the status and sanctity of mine. It makes me feel bad about having more rights than my friends and neighbors. We are living in the dark ages.

[valerief]

14. McCain is an asshat. Smart teenager. nt

[dmr]

15. 'til my dying day, I'll never, ever understand or agree with this statement -

“I think that they impinge on the status and the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman.”


What does anything, other than divorce, adultery or a law against marriage itself, have to do with the sacrament of a man and a woman being married?

How the hell can anything impinge on the status of marriage except for the efforts, or lack thereof, of the married couple?

Take a look at the divorce rate in this country. Talk about impinging the sanctity!

Anyone who is fortunate enough to find someone to love and to love them in return, and would like to marry, deserves the same 'status and sanctity' as those men and women McCain and the others talk about.

Props to that high schooler who has the strength of character to speak his peace. It wasn't just that he spoke out to a Senator and presidential candidate that proves his character, but the topic itself and the setting in which he said it in. Much respect to him.

[VLC]

17. No kidding. The kid SHOULD have asked what impinged on the sanctity of

HIS marriage, so that he had to get divorced?

[Hobarticus]

20. OOF-dah! That's the question of the day!!!

Man, I want to go see McCain and ask that, now!

[ooglymoogly]

95. ah...a St. Olaf man with whom I agree.

[speedoo]

39. It's a stupid, CYA statement that is completely illogical.

But for the idiot McCain, it's par for the course.

[jberryhill]

62. Don't you see...

The institution of marriage is gravely threatened by people who, um, uh.... want to get married.

Even the Apostle Paul suggested that people shouldn't get married.

That's it. No more marriages for anyone.

[ProudDad]

73. Here's my take on this subject...

The real solution is that all references in LAW at all levels must be changed from "marriage" to "domestic partnership"...

There should be the same legal and tax implications for all and any adults who with informed consent choose to share their lives together in a "domestic partnership" and wish the legal protections and privileges inherent in that decision...primarily for any children involved in these arrangements.

COMPLETE separation of church and State...

"Marriage" is a religious concept/myth and as such should have NO mention, power or standing in law or governmental processes or procedures.

Problem Solved. No state recognition or support for "marriages" -- ya' wanna indulge in your myths you can do it on your own time with your own particular witch doctor...


As usual with mccain on nearly every subject -- he's fucking clueless... But he's so PTSD'ed out, it's understandable. His elevator doesn't go all the way to the top...

[D-Sooner]

21. I think kids should have more respect than that

Especially to someone who's fought for this country.

[lonestarnot]

23. McDrain doesn't deserve respect!

[D-Sooner]

24. Why not?

Just because he's dead-wrong on the issues doesn't cancel out the fact that he's a war hero.

[dmr]

27. No one is made perfect by being a war hero -

Everyone has the right to question the belief systems of any person that may effect their life.

If McCain or any other candidate is willing to put it out there, then they must expect to be questioned.

Too bad we as a nation couldn't do that in the 2004 election where only the choir was invited to or allowed to hear Bush*/Cheney speak - even when at taxpayer expense.

[D-Sooner]

37. Of course they should be questioned

Questioning is one thing, but disrespect is another. When you have a teenage kid telling a 70 year-old war hero that he's not a leader, to me that's disrespectful.

[BOSSHOG]

41. I'm a 53 year old

military retiree, served in a combat zone and I somewhat agree with you. I think the young man was following the lead of conservatives who changed the tone in America a long time ago; reagan trashing the fairness doctrine and giving to birth right wing hate radio. Civil discourse may be on life support and conservatives can only thank themselves while assuredly blaming others. I was caustically trashed by a young man in 2002 because I dared suggest going to Iraq in a military manner was a bad idea. He told me to join the Army to prove my love of country. I engaged him and discovered he hadn't served his country in the military "yet." I don't give a fuck about respecting right wing zealots and their wish for non stop war regardless of the reason or the outcome. A real leader would have had this issue over and done with a long time ago.

[Dhalgren]

42. Telling someone who isn't a leader that they aren't a leader is not

showing disrespect, it is being honest. McCain is no leader. He endured being held as a POW in a gallant way, but beyond that should be accorded no more respect than anyone else. For a grown man to stand up and make himself out to be a liar, then insult everyone's intelligence with an idiotic, illogical statement regarding how "gay" marriage would impact "strait" marriage destroys any "respect" that grown man may have had coming in. McCain needs to move into a retirement community that has a real good "managed care" department...

[Tab]

45. You want disrespectful?

I think people telling me I'm unpatriotic and a traitor during the run-up to the war is disrespectful. Without any knowledge of my background, the extent of my education or how informed I am, I (and maybe most here) get labeled unpatriotic, treasonous, traitors for daring to suggest that maybe this war would be ill-informed, unprepared for, unnecessary, and daring to say it when we are getting ready for war. Goodness, if that is not the right time, when is?

Don't give me this disrespectful bullshit. The GOP has disrespected us on levels that far exceed that kid's comment.

[dmr]

53. Ordinarily I would agree with you, but

disheartening frustration is a terrible and heavy burden to carry. I know, I carry it with George W. Bush* and his administration, and the GOP, in general, each and every moment of my life.. And, I'll tell you what, if I had the chance, I would tell Bush*, that he also, is no leader. I would then turn and walk away from him.

Because of this, I have to cut this young man some slack. He didn't stand there, disrupt and argue with McCain, he just said his peace and sat down.

I was raised many years ago to honor decorum. To respect my elders, and the honorable positions of President, Senator and the like; but those elected positions are held by people who have placed politics and money in the forefront, with my country's welfare secondary. They have lost my trust; and I'm afraid, for me, I've lost much faith that the respect will ever return in the years I have left on this earth.

So, let's agree to disagree.

[Maestro]

56. Even if the elder is wrong.

Sorry, I don't buy it. He asked McCain a question and received a talking point meme answer that continues to promote bigotry and ignorance. Well I certainly think that adults should receive respect from teens, when they are dead wrong, they need to be told in no uncertain terms.

[YDogg]

83. not every war hero is a leader.

[lonestarnot]

43. Oh and John Kerry was not I suppose?

[Shipwack]

96. Hitler was a war hero too...

Got a medal for bravery rescuing the wounded in WW1.

That means his actions after that don't take away from the fact that we need to show him respect for being a war hero, right? :eyes:

[TwilightGardener]

30. Disagree--he most certainly deserves respect.

Whether or not this kid was actually disrespectful, though, is arguable.

[VLC]

36. He may deserve politeness, but respect is earned.

And since he was at that moment explaining why he thinks the U.S. should have 2 classes of citizens, one with rights and one without, he did not earn any respect that day.

[lonestarnot]

44. I let you do the respecting for me. How's that?

[Dukkha]

107. McCain has squandered off any respect he had earned

by aligning himself with some of the worst most despicable humans to exist. His support of Bush and the war was an act of betrayal against his own people. and now he declares his intention to take away the civil liberties and human rights he fought for from others.

[Hobarticus]

25. That has nothing to do with it, sorry

But, welcome to DU anyway!

[AngryOldDem]

31. I respect McCain's service

But it does not follow that I have to respect his career in Washington. Two different things. I supported McCain in 2000. That was before he became one of the biggest political sell-outs I have ever seen. I don't want, nor do I have to, respect that, just because he is a veteran.

[harun]

32. I agree and what I don't get...

when the kid says:

“So you believe in taking away someone’s rights because you believe it’s wrong?”

How can McCain believe in taking away a right that someone didn't have in the first place?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

35. No, because in Mass gays can marry. A federal amendment would change that.

Hence, what they had, the right to marry in Mass, they would no longer have.

On Edit: at least the amendment the cons want to pass.

[Occulus]

46. One would think the full faith and credit clause would apply to marriage... n/t

[SemiCharmedQuark]

49. Actually, that's one of the reasons the conservatives want the amendment

They claim that the amendment ruling marriage between a man and a woman would prevent inequality due to the full faith and credit clause. Read: They don't want to have to recognize gay marriages from other states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Marriage_Amendment#Unmarried_heterosexual_couples

[Manifestor_of_Light]

71. yep. Full faith and credit clause messes up state laws. Too F'in bad.

[2beToby]

97. Well,

assuming that we are all born with the same rights, and new gay people are born everyday, we're basically stripping rights away from some people at birth (we just don't realize it for 20 years or so).

It seems like it's fresh for every generation of gay people of marrying age. Like a slap in the face every time someone comes out of the closet and realizes they can't get "married".

[Lars39]

40. He's a tool for this administration.

[Auggie]

48. How does military service earn someone respect in a Presidential Election?

That kid is a potential constituent and has the right to ask any question of any presidential candidate and voice a response.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

61. Please Don't Post Anymore On DU

It's obvious to me that you're a repub TROLL.

Glad to see you've been a member a full 4 days already.

Perhaps you should wait until you've been here another year or two before you spout off again in support of your repub cronies.

[D-Sooner]

109. Wow

I guess I'm in the wrong place then. I didn't know it was so outrageous to suggest that veterans deserved respect.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

116. You're not in the wrong place at all.

You may be new here, but you're right. You can see what happens when you upset the two-percenters.*

* A Harley-Davidson owner once explained to me that it was an extremely vocal two percent of H-D owners who refused to acknowledge the existence of any other brand of motorcycle. Similarly, an extremely vocal two percent of DUers are right all the time and refuse to acknowledge the existence of any opinion other than theirs.

[D-Sooner]

117. Hey thanks

I feel more welcome already! :patriot:

[mahatmakanejeeves]

118. De nada

Some people are just going to have to be unhappy with your opinions. They'll get over it. And if not? Well, you know: "if you can't take a joke...."

Hang around.

[jberryhill]

66. His service and sacrifice merits respect

His ambition to be President of the United States, does not merit respect.

You are confusing two entirely different things.

The kid stated that he did not see leadership quality in McCain. That is not at all disrespectful. No more so than pushing a lever for another candidate in a voting booth.

McCain is there campaigning for votes. He does not get a free pass on "OOoooooh, you'd make a great president" for the mere fact of his campaigning.

[ProudDad]

75. Piss on ALL FLAGS

I don't condone discrimination for or against anyone.

This concept that someone who buys into the bullshit and goes to murder other peoples in cold blood (especially from an airplane - real cowardice) are somehow better than those of us who chose NOT to murder other peoples for bullshit concepts like "nation" or "country" or "Lyndon Johnson" is just that...

It's discrimination against those whose rational processes worked in favor of those whose didn't.

[BlueEyedSon]

81. The emperor & his minions have no clothes.

And it takes a kid to say so!

[JerseygirlCT]

88. Disagree

That experience doesn't get him a lifetime "buy" from any criticism.

The student was expressing his opinion -- which even McCain acknowledges is entirely his right.

These guys won't do anything to rock the boat unless they hear the truth from the people voting. We've been playing The Emperor's New Clothes for far too long now.

[redqueen]

92. ahahahahahahahahaha

enjoy your stay

:hi:

[Shipwack]

94. You mean respect like the Repubs showed for vets Gore and Kerry? nt

[D-Sooner]

110. Not the same thing

The smear campaign against John Kerry was the most atrocious political move I've ever witnessed. This isn't even close to being that bad, but in my opinion, it's still disrespectful. What Kerry went through was downright disgraceful.

[2beToby]

99. What is

disrespectful about saying, "You're no leader"? To a Veteran or otherwise?
Would you think it was disrespectful if the kid said "I don't want you as a leader." Or something similar?

I'm just not sure how you think the kid was disrespectful. McCain wants to lead this country, and someone he hopes will someday vote for him told him, point blank, I don't want you as a leader. I'm actually pretty surprised this is news--do people really treat candidates with kid gloves all the time? I would think a war vet wouldn't want to be coddled. Actually, I think McCain responded really well--and I REALLY disagree with him. However, I would say the same thing. We're gearing up for an election, I'm looking for someone I think would make a good leader--you are no leader, McCain. Not by my definition anyway.

Not all soldiers are cut out to be leaders. We can only hope the officers are.

As a side note: I can never hope to get the respect that you're willing to give someone who's fought for this country---why? Because "don't ask, don't tell" says that I'm not good enough to serve my country without hiding my family in the shadows. So maybe I just don't understand the kind of respect that can never knowingly be given to someone like me.

[lonestarnot]

22. Hey Sleaster!

:yourock:

[noonwitch]

33. I disagree with McCain about the issue, but the kid was rude

He would have been better to say, "Then, Senator, I guess I will have to respectfully disagree with you."

[ThomCat]

72. Denying people civil rights is not an issue for "respectfully disagreeing."

That kid was very polite. More polite than the civil rights deniers deserve.

[Thickasabrick]

105. Amen

[Dollface]

34. The kid was right and McCain behaved admirably (especially for a repug).

It is nice to know that there is at least one repug who is not afraid to take unscripted questions. Despite the fact that I disagree with McCain on virtually everything, at least I know where he stands. I was sorely disappointed by his sucking up to the Decider and Chimp in the past few years. (I've often wondered what they had on him.) In this case, however, he was the grown-up and treated his questioner with more respect than was shown to him. He provided an important lesson in democracy and discourse. In the past, he would have been referred to as a "Worthy Opponent."

[speedoo]

38. McCain is a has been and he has squandered any respect he once had.

He's a complete ass and tool.

Sorry he endured being a POW but he evidently learned nothing about caring for our current soldiers from that experience.

I'm a Vietnam vet also and I say fuck him, fuck Powell, fuck ALL the military types, current and former who support this idiotic war.

Fuck them all.

[Superman Returns]

50. my take

I think the kid could have said something critical without coming across as he did. McCain was allowing him to ask multiple questions, and I think to say something so bluntly like that was a bit disrespectful. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of McCain's politics, but he is the only GOP candidate that I respect and can at least see as a presidential figure.

[xchrom]

51. after what bush did to him re: mccains ''temperment'' and ''stability'' --

and mccain's sucking up to him, his unquestioning support for this murderous adventure in iraq, his statements regarding the rights of everyone EXCEPT gay folk -- mccain deserves the respect coming to him.

none -- none at all.

the man is about power and fame and glory -- he has no notion of serving any one but himself and his ego.

[xchrom]

52. and by the way -- have those gay marriages in massachusettes inpinged on straight marriges there?

cause that should be very easily verified.

and if they haven't -- then mccain is a liar to boot.

[Jacobin]

55. HELP. My marriage is being threatened by teh Gheys!!!!!!

:yoiks:

I can't believe people still say stuff like that. I want to ask them "How does that threaten your marriage, exactly?"

[LuckyLib]

58. Give this young American a press pass and get him in the WH. Someone who speaks the truth.

[Ian David]

59. Sleaster... a Young American Hero in the making! Good for him! n/t

[everydayis911]

60. Wish more kids

were like that. And as far as “I think that they impinge on the status and the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman.” well tell that to straight people like Tommy Lee And Pamela Anderson who got married and Pamela didn't even know her new last name. Sanctity indeed.

[Disturbed]

70. Speaking the truth is now being rude?

America needs at least 100 Million more like this young person.

[Initech]

69. That's awesome.

I hope more people begin to question our leaders like this kid did.

[PATRICK]

74. Leaders don't

just accept frames. McCain and likely all the others have surrendered to the Christian Right frame that the "sanctity" of marriage is enmeshed in a Constitutional issue. Marriage IS a civil union as far as the law is concerned and the restriction is simply one partner with those rights and economic ties at a time.
Accepting the religious restrictions which is up to the church member and one's congregation for "sanctification" is up to them by the separation of church and state. Other legal restrictions have to do with age, health and other social issues which vary by state.

Retract government from religious affairs and vice versa. The law is sufficiently formed with regard to legal marriage as a civil union. The pernicious advance of the Christian Right would increase obstacles to divorce if not outright prohibition probably after establishing the moral rules against same sex marriages. Then, of course, why not force everyone to be "Christian" according to that tyrannical taliban's domination of what constitutes "sanctity"?

Leadership means having a mental sword for the Gordian knots imposed by gatekeepers of civil discourse. You can take time to muse on this(as Alexander did) instead of falling back on the dull blade of cliches meant to defeat any who have fallen into an unfair trap and stymie progress.

[Bleacher Creature]

76. Enough with the "McCain handled it well" stuff.

Has anyone except the OP seen this post?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1730342

I'm not sure if it was at the same event, but it sure is telling with respect to how this guy handles criticism.

[Vidar]

77. Good for Sleaster (the student).

[Nickster]

78. What leader advocates treating certain types of Americans a certain way and certain types of

Americans a different way? Sounds like a very smart teenager to me. McCain shouldn't just be given respect, he should deserve and spewing those right wing talking points that mean nothing just shows that he's got a lack of judgement and a lack of committment to American ideals. Sounds like a poor leader to me. Hasn't the US suffered enough from short sighted "leaders"?

[daninthemoon]

79. That kid's a downright hero. How do you suppose he's likely to be

treated by his classmates from here on? I'm not gay, and I hope kids are more tolerant today, but I know back when I was in high school, even the hint of homosexuality was grounds for daily torment including assaults. This kid gives me hope for the future. Too harsh to McCain? This kid should be a poster child for how we all should be dealing with these politicians, especially rightwingers.

[jeff30997]

84. McCain is the King...

The King of butt-kisser that is.

[high density]

87. Why doesn't anybody ever press the privacy angle of a debate like this?

Instead of saying "You're no leader," I think it would have been more tactful to ask why he cares about seeing what is going on in other people's bedrooms and how the civil union or marriage of two loving people would somehow dilute "the sanctity of marriage" which is already rampant with divorce.

[JerseygirlCT]

89. Well, yes, McCain's argument is absolutely baseless and

irrational. It's gobbledy-guck and anyone with half a brain sees that. I don't know how long the student would have been allowed to pursue the debate, however.

[Shipwack]

100. Let's show the difference between "straightforward" and "rude"

Straightforward: “I came here looking to see a leader,” Sleaster said. “I don’t.”

Rude: “I came here looking to see a leader,” Sleaster said. “I just see a bigoted asshole.”

Fear of "not appearing respectful" is a concept that needs to be abandoned with "keeping the powder dry." We need more ass kicking Democrats, not fearful appeasers.

Or as RuPaul put it:
"My goal is to always come from a place of love ...but sometimes you just have to break it down for a motherfucker."

[PADemD]

101. Yahoo News reported a different response from McCain:

"An unflinching John McCain was told Tuesday by New Hampshire high school students he might be too old to be president and too conservative to be respected.

"McCain, the Arizona senator whose presidential bid has stumbled through the summer, countered the Concord High School students with humor.

"Thanks for the question, you little jerk," McCain joked back to one student who asked the 71-year-old about his age. "You're drafted."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070904/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_students_6

I wonder if the students thought the joke about being drafted was funny.

[yurbud]

103. whoever the Dem nominee is, this kid needs to be their debate coach. He's got more balls than mealy

mouthed parasites like Bob Shrum.

[fujiyama]

104. McCain got what he deserved

It's about time someone starts calling these politicians out.

Rude? Disrespectful? LOL, wow...have those who think that seen debates in other countries? No wonder our politicians are not held accountable. Doing so is soooo mean!

And yes, McCain served honorably in Vietnam. Does that mean he has shown leadership qualities since? I sure don't see it.

[yurbud]

106. Some gay needs to do a variation of this: "Could you tell me to my face I'm going to convert your

kids to homosexuality if I can get married? Which of your children would have become gay if they knew gays could get married? Would you have accidentally married someone of the same sex because you were confused? No? So you think everybody else is that sheepish?"

[6000eliot]

108. Of course he's not a leader, Kid.

He's a pandering dickhead.

[Sam Ervin jret]

111. Many Rep. still want "gay" sex to STAY illegal let alone marriage, How much of an evolutionary jump

do you expect from a group that still doesn't believe in evolution!

Never go to a republican speech looking for enlightenment or leadership
.
You will however, find comfort my young patriot in knowing this man did his part as a young man, to secure your right to say what you did to him.

I have no love for the policies of McCain, nor do I think that his service disallows any contest. However a fairer follow-up (perhaps from a TEACHER) could have been to question "why?"

"Why" does the behavior of two consenting adults and marriage, an institution of the church, belong in the federal presidential debate and in the federal laws in general.

[BlueStater]

112. McCain isn't a leader

I respect his military service (which is more than can be said about the assholes who attacked John Kerry) but I find nothing admirable about his career in Washington.

[JDPriestly]

113. The most important lesson learned from the Bush administration:

Don't elect a president who can't take criticism. Clearly, McCain can't handle it.

[Olney Blue]

114. Now THAT's encouraging for the future. A kid with guts.

[lonestarnot]

115. Damn I love this kid!

:loveya: kid! :hug: More balls than fucking Congress! :toast:

[Mythsaje]

119. McCain: "I think Christians should have special rights."

That's what all this boils down to, isn't it?