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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:55 AM
Original message
US backing for two-tier internet
Source: BBC

The US Justice Department has said that internet service providers should be allowed to charge for priority traffic.
The agency said it was opposed to "network neutrality", the idea that all data on the net is treated equally.



Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6983375.stm



It's official. An open free internet is about to become a thing of the past. Obviously a Republican move to grant more power to corporations/themselves.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. oh my gawd. NO NO NO
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. No way. This sucks
The Democrats in Congress had better do something about this.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. yea right
right after they stop this war :crazy:
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
4. I just saw this... How can we fight it?
K&R
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
35. How CAN We Fight It?
This is Bullshit!:argh:
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. support the folks at EFF
http://www.eff.org/

they litigate in our name...
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nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. so much for leveling the playing field...
when that happens I might as well take my webserver down and dump the DSL. Seems a shame but if I don't have the servers then I don't need 5 ip addresses. And if I don't have the ip addresses I don't need the phone service. Oh gee, that means I can dump the dish network too since I won't have a phone to purchase PPV any more.



**** Seems like a wise move... Do you hear me AT&T? *****
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comtec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. that's not a bad point
That is a great deal of business that will be lost with small timers just giving up and closing shop.
whorporations always look at the "bigger" picture RE-big clients, without actually SEEING the big picture, that is small business is what makes EVERYTHING work!

If you look at employment, even though so much is being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, the majority of the power for the economy and employment in general comes form the small businesses. Corporations hire as few people as necessary, often overworking their drones to death! SMALL businesses are more forgiving, and hire as reasonably needed.

By doing this they will kill what is really the majority of their business. Many people with dial up may stay there (dial up is pennies compared to broad band clients) and I think some BB people will go back to dial up because if you can't get the pages you want at high speeds (natural I-net speeds) than what's the point of having DSL?

I am constantly amazed at teh short sightedness of corporations now a days. It's as though they can't see past next month!
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. What? Another set of tubes?
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. Just as Young Teddy Stevens predicted


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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
7. like the democrats in congress are gonna do anything to codify network neutrality hahaha nt
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Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
8. They want to make sure to drown out the last voice that the average American has. Unless you can pay
you don't get a voice. Unless you own your own media/propaganda outlet, you get no voice.
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superkia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. Thats what I thought when I first saw the story.
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
10. The Democrats..........I can't quit laughing
Or is it crying. They will do nothing like they have been. They were supposed to go home and get an ear full from the voters. If that happened it is really showing by what they have done so far this week, a big fat nothing! No accountability, no nothing! Leahy, "I going to ......." the same old song and dance. Cross this line and I gonna...........give me a break. The Corporate America is running full steam ahead....just try to stop it


We all will need a life ring soon!
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MatrixEscape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
11. It makes perfect sense to me ....
Edited on Fri Sep-07-07 09:30 AM by MatrixEscape
considering that we are living in a caste system that is not be acknowledged as such.

If we look carefully, we see a growing polarization of the rich and the poor with a gradually shrinking/eroding middle class that will be trying to hold on desperately to the American Dream while not realizing that you have to be asleep to see it -- especially today.

So, why do something stupid like put any obvious censorship or control on the Internet, when you can do it the good old, corporate, mono-culture way? I mean, the Internet is really becoming a thorn in the side of the Fascist regime, since they have full control over the mass media they own.

So, let's see now ... who is going to be dangerous? Well, the wealthy are fine and entrenched and don't seem to have any problem with this oppressive, parasitic, empire-building system. The middles-class are scrambling and being worked like dogs so that they can try to keep their symbolic status based on over-extended credit and multiple mortgages, (as the equity on their homes goes negative), so we don't have to worry too much about them making a big fuss as Fascism marches ahead.

Oh, and then there are those pesky lower-income people! Those wage slaves are on the bottom of the abysmal barrel and, well, when you ain't got much left to lose, you can tend to get vociferous and awry. The dangerous people are the ones who still have the capacity to interact online, do their homework, and report and disseminate what is really going on.

I don't expect this will spark anyone do actually do anything but complain about it until it becomes too late. When they sort out the problem of the Internet, the game changes dramatically. Some will just shut-up and go back to being good little consumer/wage slaves that steep themselves in any entertainment/distraction offered. Others will take it underground, but knowing full-well that just about everything is being monitored and that we will be watched even from satellites above us.

At that stage, since nobody is really taking much action other than spewing OMGs when they see yet another step in the overall plan unfold, the panopticon will be close to complete. If that does occur, then we will see our high-technology go from a potential boon to all humanity, to a virtually unbreakable enslavement where your privacy becomes somebody else's surveillance porn.

If that Globalist type of collective is what we want, it is moving forward and gaining steam. When it comes down to the Borg, (Big Organization) you must comply and resistance is actually futile unless your technology can outwit their rapidly mutating kind.

There was a dream of another kind of collectivity, you know. It is still alive. It is based on nature and a respect for it in a Shamanic way. It is archaic and almost tribal but with technological appendages and marvels shared for the benefit of all and free of Capitalistic parasitism. It stands as a recognition and a monument to human ingenuity and whatever else might raise us up from our animal nature without disconnecting us from those roots and the creatures who share this experience with us as life itself.

That vision may come to pass, despite the powerful and compelling game that the Dominators are playing right now. Once can only hope that they will play it with a pride that goeth before a fall and that the people of this amazing planet will be able to build a new, and even transcendent reality, from the ashes of those mistakes.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. um . . . don't you mean "caste" system? . . . :) n/t
.
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MatrixEscape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Thanks! I will fix that if I can.
Perfection is not one of my better attributes being finite and prone to chaotic dissonance on this side of the spectrum. ;)
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graphixtech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. beautifully said!
thanks for the vision.

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MatrixEscape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Thank you ...
For your acknowledgment! Vision is a good word! Use it well.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #11
25. well said....nt
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
28. I wish we could nominate individual posts
Edited on Fri Sep-07-07 10:48 AM by Chovexani
This deserves its own thread.

This is what I think of when the spiritual folks speak of Ascension. Sooner or later we will reach the breaking point where the entire corrupt system comes crashing down to its knees and a shared, benevolent collective like the one you speak of will rise like a phoenix from the ashes. Maybe it's just the Technopagan in me talking, but I believe this fervently.

As Ian Malcolm put it, life finds a way.
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MatrixEscape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. It is a humble honor ...
To have such a reply to a post. That is uplifting, and if there where a way to nominate a response to an individual post, I would gladly reciprocate.

The vision is huge, immense, powerful. It is about looking so deeply into the here and now that you see the pomp and circumstance behind all the distractions that exist to prevent that insight.

For anyone who wants to try to see that vision naturally, and without shamanic aids, look at nature, your own organism, and how they function. Pay attention to that first and foremost, even thought it might seem rather "unnatural" to do that based on the cultural training you have been subjected to. Find out, foremost and first hand, how you function and, if possible, why you function.

We could possibly be at the crest of a very important wave in human history. A wave that crashes on the shore of something unimaginable and certainly transcendent to the dogma that the Dominators have methodically layered upon the resulting existence we are experiencing today. Perhaps there is a sort of Archaic Revival in order as we see the kind of chaos that Global domination creates, conveys, and insists on as the apocalyptic salvation to its insane diversion and disassociation from our natural state. Without nature and what we are, where would we then be?

I have cashed in all my hope and faith for a calm overview of what memory tells me has been and now, what seems to be. From there, there is no superstition, prayer, hope, faith, or even insecurity, want, or need. There is only what a presence, a pattern, and a process, and that is even a way to stretch the immediate and clear awareness of the non-verbal actuality.

Yes, words, ideas, and thoughts may be useful and functional, but they are merely abstract symbols about what it is we are seeking and living.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
37. "...a dream of another kind of collectivity...". It's happening in Latin America.
Millions of dirt poor people, many with no TV, all with no computers, turned South American history around, in Venezuela in 2002. Bear in mind that Venezuelan news media are even worse than here, if you can imagine--totally dominated by foaming-at-the-mouth corporate-controlled wingers. In 2002, the fascist elite in collusion with the Bushites attempted a violent military coup, to topple the leftist (majorityist) government of Hugo Chavez. They used the news media as one pillar of their coup (particularly RCTV). They kidnapped Chavez, and suspended the Constitution, the National Assembly (congress) and the court system. RCTV and others broadcast disinformation for the coup--for instance, that Chavez had resigned (he had not), and put the coup leaders on TV as if it was a fait accompli ('here's your new "government," kiss your Constitution goodbye'). Tens of thousands of mostly poor people nevertheless poured into the streets and surrounded Miraflores Palace (the seat of government) and demanded, a) restoration of constitutional government (--they are passionately attached to their Constitution in Venezuela; the people wrote it and passed it; they've all read it), and b) return of their kidnapped president. The democratic elements in the military were heartened by this enormous protest, and blockaded some the plotters' moves. The huge crowd of protesters would not disperse; the coup plotters skulked out of the palace in fear for their lives, and order was restored (the VP, who had gone into hiding, returned to the palace, and he and the cabinet took over, until the pro-democracy military brought Chavez back to the palace by helicopter).*

What is so interesting in this--and in other developments in South America--is that the majority of people (the poor) have little access to TV and no access to computers--certainly no cell phones, or often not even telephones. Further, what they heard from TV or radio sources they DID NOT BELIEVE. They had become immune to the propaganda. They knew it was lies. But how did they communicate? How did they organize this immense and peaceful protest? Surely they would cower in their hovels; the coup could pick off the few who came out into the streets to protest, and then the fascist plotters could shut down all dissent (as they clearly intended) the hard way (dropping leftists out of airplanes; chainsawing them and dumping their body parts into mass graves--as has been happening in Colombia; 'disappearing' anyone who dared to speak out).

SOMEHOW huge numbers of people--the least powerful people in the society--spread the word that Chavez had not resigned and that they ALL needed to come out--there is strength in numbers--to defeat the coup. No doubt many were simply brave hearts, and would have protested, enormous crowd or not. But how did so many people make that decision? How did so many people become convinced that the coup could be defeated by sheer numbers?

The movie "V" comes to mind. Some kind of super-consciousness occurred. Individuals began thinking as one. And they all came out of their houses, and they stopped the coup in its tracks.

South American history was changed forever. This had never happened before in modern history. You have to go back to the revolutionary early 1800s and Simon Bolivar--and also the slave revolt in Haiti--for anything comparable. In modern times, the fascists backed by the U.S. and its predatory corporations have always won. The "banana republic" dictators seize power and the people get smashed. The Venezuelans reversed this trend, definitively, with reverberations throughout the continent and in Central America as well.

Country after country in South America have elected leftist governments--Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil, Chile. Paraguay is next, and then Peru. In Central America, Nicaragua just elected a leftist government. And Mexico came within a hairsbreadth--0.05%--of doing so last year, and Guatemala will likely do so this year. The Bolivarian block--Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador and Argentina--have had a powerful influence on ideas as well as on positive planning and actions. The two broad Bolivarian goals are social justice and Latin American self-determination. Venezuela is the most advanced as to social justice, and it is also the leader of projects like the Bank of the South (to push the World Bank/IMF--corporate loan sharks--out of the region), and regional trade groups (to counter U.S. corporate predator "free trade").

In Bolivia--where a huge revolt against U.S. corporations and social injustice has taken place--when one of the leaders of this movement, Evo Morales, was elected president--the first 100% indigenous president of Bolivia (and I believe the first in South America)--ten thousand Andes indians came down out of the mountains for a special religious ceremony to invest him as their leader, prior to his official inauguration.

Something deeply spiritual and profoundly moving is happening in South America. And it bypasses all the deadend fascist/corporate media. It doesn't so much oppose corporate monoculture and fascist oppression as it flows around it and under it, and over it, as a river flows around a rock. We see only the surface water, but beneath every visible river, there is another river, deep in the ground, called the "groundwater," flowing under and alongside the surface water, deep in the crevices of the earth. So the river flows beneath a rock (eventually moving it) as well as over and around it. And it is that deep-flowing river that is the best metaphor for the Bolivarian Revolution. It is visible on the surface in stunning reforms in Venezuela, for instance--a government that is using its oil profits to help the poor, to build schools and medical clinics in areas never before served by government; to provide universal health care, free university educations, assistance in returning to school, a fabulously successful adult literacy program; grants and loans to small business and worker co-ops; land reform; low cost housing for the poor (especially in the shantytowns of Caracas, which regularly slide off the hills in heavy rains); support for indigenous Venezuelan arts (as well as for their famous classical music school for the poor), and on and on. That is the surface. Beneath the surface, an amazing and historic change has occurred in the ability of the vast majority of people to imagine something far, far better than has ever gone before: a truly just society.

I could name a lot of things that have contributed to this peaceful revolution--for instance, decades of hard work on transparent elections, by the OAS, the Carter Center, EU election monitoring groups, and local civic groups and individual activists, and the steadfastness and persistence of indigenous tribes, on environmental and other issues, despite overwhelming, brutal oppression.

But I still come back to the river, flowing around, over and under the rock. The collectivity of the molecules of water, eroding and eventually moving the rock, by mostly ignoring it and moving on.

That is what is happening. Social justice, democracy and self-determination are what almost everybody wants. They are the overwhelming trend of history. They can only be suppressed for so long, and then the rock (fascism) is INEVITABLY eroded and forced into the flow. And this is something that happens within people and among people, in our collective dream of the society we all want to live in.

And if it can happen there--after all that South Americans have suffered--it can happen here, too.

----------------------------------------

*(Must see: The Irish filmmakers' documentary on the Venezuelan coup attempt, "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised," available at www.axisoflogic.com. They were inside Miraflores Palace, just visiting, when the coup attempt occurred, and caught it all on film. An amazing documentary. A good source on the Bolivarian Revolution: www.venezuelanalysis.com.)

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
45. And they wonder why people turn to crime.
I mean, duh.

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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
13. honestly, now . . . did anyone expect anything else? . . . n/t
.
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
18. They see what the internet does to news we get the REAL thing
they have to stop that at all costs. The republicans control, the radio, the newspapers, network and cable TV. The only thing they dont' have YET is the internet and we see they are working on getting that.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
19. DOJ is not "US", and regulation of the internet is none of their business. nt
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
20. Why is the justice department involved in this decision?
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. I'll make a guess.
The DOJ renders opinions for a lot of the federal government as to what is or should be legal.

The FCC is the agency who *will* be making (not "has made") the decision, and my guess is that the FCC either sought the DOJ's legal opinion/advice/suggestions or is simply allowing the DOJ to weigh in with an opinion.

I think it's only an issue because of the content of the opinion; if the DOJ came out for net neutrality there'd be a largely different set of people objecting.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
21. Say goodbye to DU
I doubt I'll keep my cable internet. It costs too much if I can't get access to what I want.
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benld74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
22. Here come more taxes for us little guys!
The no tax Rethugs never mention that allowing this 2-tier system will also allow those corps paying the higher charges to pass those charges to their customers-US!
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Drifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
23. Unintended consequences ...
Naturally, a change like this will have unintended consequences.

The sophistication of websites will be stifled. We have seen a tremendous explosion of web content from a simple text page, to full blown applications. With a two tier internet, websites might have to support multiple interfaces (high speed vs not). This may have a terrible impact on these websites, increasing their cost to reach the same number of people.

People are still going to go after the $10.00 internet service (because they have no choice). They will demand the websites provide options for low bandwidth content.

Cheers
Drifter
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
24. We have a two-tier "democracy"
Money = "free speech"
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
26. Sounds like "Two Americas" n/t
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satya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
29. ATTN:Verizon, Comcast, DirecTV: you get $350/mo from us now. We can live without your services.
And it's easy to sit here at home and spend a lot of money online. But we don't have to do that either.

Do you really want to go down this road? There are a lot of us baby boomers with a fair amount of disposable income. We're getting fed up with this consumer culture already. We've learned that we can be happy with a lot less "stuff", but we're kinda lazy and comfy.

So bring it on. This will be just the kick in the butt we need to stop playing your game. And we're going to have a lot more time on our hands when we're not sitting in front of our computers.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. It would be cool if there were a progressive, alternative internet provider we
coud use, and say to hell with at&t and rightwing companies altogether.
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satya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Agreed! I hope the blue techies are hard at work developing the technology we'll need to do this.
Or maybe it's already out there, and I don't know about it yet.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #31
43. They'd still be required to pay protection payments
to the phone companies (soon to be ONE phone company) who own the tubes...
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. I Wholeheartedly Agree.
I am sick of their Bullshit. And in my area fucking Verizon tries to buy everyone else out
so that they are left as the only option for a Broadband Service Provider. Fucking thieves!:grr:
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lynnertic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
36. But AT&T has pledged to back off teh two-tiered network thing
as part of the deal that let them buy bellsouth or something earlier this year.

And, Congress has a network neutrality bill in front of it...

Am I wrong?
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. I seem to remember that it was time-limited
after a certain amount of time -- (months, a couple of years) they would be allowed to do anything they want...

There is NO enforcement of the Sherman Act any more...
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
39. Oh, great.
:sarcasm:
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
40. I guess we should all go back to dialup then
Let's see how valuable that "priority traffic" is when we're all limited to 53kbps.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
41. The sorry money grubbing asses!
I don't care how much they donate to politicians. This is NOT something that is going to be allowed to go unchallenged by we their lowly subjects.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
42. Don't worry
they still have to get it through a Democratic Congress....They'll protect us....ooops, never mind...

Well, it's been fun but I guess DU will get the short end of the inter-stick now, eh? Can't wait for those 20 second pauses after hitting "Post Message"
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
46. tax the internet is what I see comming
Or do the rich deserve more bells and whistles based on their wallets?
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
47. Two tiers just like our society. the have mores and the have even less. nt
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midlife_mo_Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. I'M OPPOSED TO NETWORK NEUTRALITY!
ALL spam should take weeks and months to arrive. In fact, 90% of it should get lost somewhere!

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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
49. The DOJ should have been an arm of Congress
implanted into the Executive Branch structure as its sole legal department and prosecutors, to insure compliance with Congress' legislation.

Instead, organized the way it is, what we get are corporate shills, politicized, who are estranged from the idea of justice being blind.
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eagler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
50. I always find it ironic that the gop touts itself as the partyof less government
Bush IS BIG GOVERNMENT!
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allisonthegreat Donating Member (586 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
51. In words...Here we go
Just another way the government is trying to control the people....ugh!
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
52. what nonsense
what the hell is 'priority traffic' ???
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
53. the Oligarchy will not be denied
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