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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:05 PM
Original message
6-Year-Old Girl Found Hanged in Texas
Edited on Wed Sep-12-07 05:06 PM by RamboLiberal
Source: ABC News

CORSICANA, Texas

A 6-year-old girl was found hanged inside her family's garage and had been sexually assaulted before she died, police said Wednesday.

Authorities have made no arrests or named any suspects since Hannah Mack's body was discovered by her mother on Monday. They are saying little about their investigation.

"I will confirm that the hanging and sexual assault were part of this scenario," Navarro County Sheriff's Chief Deputy Mike Cox said.

Cox said several people have been interviewed and no one has been ruled out as a suspect.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3592465




Shown in this undated family photo is 6-year-old Hannah Mack of Corsicana, Texas. Her body was discovered Monday, Sept. 10, 2007, hanging inside her family's garage. Police said Wednesday the child was sexually assaulted. (Family Photo via KTVT-TV/ AP Photo )

WTF is going on with all these sick crimes? And it seems to me that Texas or Florida get a large share of them
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. A beautiful angel.....
I can only hope there is a loving afterlife for her somehow..... RIP, sweet Angel.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
54. I'm quite certain she's being treated with exquisite care
on the Other Side.

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midlife_mo_Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
65. What a horrible death
Children that little tend to take a long time to die this way.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #65
80. WTF? n/t
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midlife_mo_Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. Maybe I'm wrong
but I believe I read an account of children being hanged in the Nazi death camps during WWII. It would take quite a bit longer for them to strangle to death because their bodies didn't weigh as much. I think I read this in Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl, but it was so long ago, I really don't remember. I just know that the image was seared in my mind forever.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #82
88. Ahhh...that makes sense...freaked me out for a second :) My
lasting WWII rememberance is that of La Paloma being played while people were marched into the gass chambers. That, and the camp liberation footage. I never heard about the hangings. :(

Boggles my mind that people dont think it happened.

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Suich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. This makes me physically ill.
It's getting harder and harder for me to be anti-death penalty.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Not me...
With the ineptitude and stupidity I've seen between the media and law enforcement and the politicos who stand between them often-times, I don't trust the Justice system enough not to kill the wrong damned person.

And that's my primary bitch with the death penalty. Some people DO deserve to be thrown off the planet. The trick is figuring out who they are.
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tidy_bowl Donating Member (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I would say it wouldn't be really a trick to do that at all...
....I think even a six-year old could do it.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
39. In most cases, but not in all.
I'm wondering, how many innocents do you think is an acceptable number to be put to death? Let's say you were right 95 percent of the time ... not a bad average for most things, eh? ... Which five people out of one hundred should die for a miscarriage of justice?
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #39
50. 95 percent is a rather optimistic ratio, I'm guessing.
We'd be lucky to hit 75%.

Lovely to think of 25 innocent people dying for every 75 guilty ones.

The whole notion gives me a serious case of the creeps.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
61. All we need...
... is a completely different standard of evidence in death penalty cases. The standard should not be "beyond a reasonable doubt", but "beyond the slightest doubt". Meaning that mere eyewitness testimony would not be enough, and any circumstantial case would have to be overwhelming in scope.

People who do things like this are no more human than a rabid dog is Fido.
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Ian_rd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
55. The only reason I remain anit-death penalty is because of all the innocent people we execute
But if our system worked to a much higher degree of accuracy, and it meant that so many innocent men weren't being killed, then I would be as strong a supporter of capital punishment as anyone.

I don't believe in an after-life, so in my book when someone is murdered, that's it. They're gone forever. No paradise awaits. Their entire existence and consciousness is wiped out. The only possible punishment for such a thing is execution. And because of my belief in how serious it is, it therefore causes me to oppose the death penalty because it's actually worse to support a system that kills innocent people.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Texas and Florida are big states. But there's always room for more culture war.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
30. It is a parent's right to discipline a child as they see fit...
isn't that what the Republican right wingers tell us?
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #30
48. What does that have to do with the preceding comment?
:shrug:
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #48
51. Nothing. It's Creep Week around here.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #51
56. If you stopped being so angry and thought for a moment...
you might see that I was making a comment about the Republican culture of authoritarianism. Your gratuitous labeling of me as a "creep" is more a reflection of you than a description of me. Give it some thought.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. If you intended to be critical of authoritarianism, I'm sorry if I misunderstood that.
Didn't read that way to me at the time.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is unconscionable.
I can't say enough bad things about someone who would do this!

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kysrsoze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. These types of crimes make me want to forget my disapproval of capital, inhumane punishment
I don't understand how someone can do something like that to a child.
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. I Have A Beautiful Little Six Year Old Daughter
And I am unabashedly sitting in the library crying right now.:cry:

Who could hurt an innocent child?

Peyton Rose my love. I would kill someone with my bare hands if anyone harmed a hair on her head.

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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. !!! She looks like MY daughter if she dyed her hair blonde!
Face, eyes, facial expression, age, everything! Put a black wig on her and you'll have my kid.
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. They Are Amazing Little Creatures Aren't They?
I love her so much I sometimes feel like my heart will burst. Six is a great age. They love animals and are learning to read. My heart breaks for the little girls loved ones.

IMG]
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. My daughter and your daughter could be sisters...
Edited on Wed Sep-12-07 05:42 PM by driver8
And I feel the same way. My children are so precious to me. (My daughter will be 6 in February).

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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Beautiful Girl With A Wonderful Spirit
Edited on Wed Sep-12-07 05:49 PM by Binka
Is she an Aquarian BTW?
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. She is an Aquarian...
Your daughter is beautiful, also.
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Dulcinea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
53. My daughter will be 6 in November.
No punishment is too harsh for anyone who would harm a child in such a horrific way. My heart breaks for her family. :cry:

Dulcinea

aka Genevieve's Mom
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
75. She has pretty blue eyes like my daughter!
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. Horrifying. Poor child. Her poor family.
Edited on Wed Sep-12-07 05:12 PM by superconnected
I just don't get it...
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. tx and fl are the biggest death penalty states...
Yet see what still happens.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Good point! n/t
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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Sad
I do believe in a God/Creator, but when this stuff happens, its beyond me why?
This is too tragic, it destroys my hope in human beings.......:cry: :cry:
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TexasBushwhacker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. honestly, it's one of the reasons I don't
believe in a supreme being. There is just too much evil in the world for me to feel that there is an entity that allows it all to happen.
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. I agree. That's partly how/why I arrived at atheism as well.

We've got to look out for each other -- and for those unable to look out for themselves -- because it seems clear that there's no Sky Being on the job.

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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
71. Agreed. The dealth penalty is about revenge, not criminology.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. no words
:cry:
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. God, I pray she was drugged so she didn't feel the pain.
But I suspect the pain of this small, vulnerable child was what the murderer and torturer was after. May there be a peaceful place for her to be after life.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. I dunno...anyone who could do this to a 6 YO child......I have to question
if they are truly human.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
41. Oh, they are all too human. "Animals" don't do this sort of thing. nt
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. When you have leadership that embraces torture, you nurture a citizenry that does the same. nt
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. I somehow doubt
that whoever did this is the least bit plugged into politics or even knows what the leaderships policies on torture are. This person is one sick fuck. I doubt he watches Hardball or reads the newpapers. Sorry but I don't believe that the BFEE is responsible for every sick, depraved thing that happens in the world.

Mz Pip
:dem:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. a culture of violence
I believe it's all connected. We are either fostering love and nurturing and cooperation; or hate and destruction and torture. That's why there should be no death penalty. It's about the culture we create for ourselves.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #35
44. Kind of black & white
either or here. We are either love and nurturing or hate and destruction. No middle ground? Never sometimes some of each? If only reality were so simple. Of course if the whole world were filled with love and cooperation there would be less violence. That doesn't mean there would never ever be a psycho out there doing damage.

It's not as though there is no violence in states with no death penatly. Charles Manson is doing life because he did his crimes before there was a death penalty in CA. Worked really well well for Sharon Tate, didn't it.

Mz Pip
:dem:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #44
49. Murders in '69, death penalty overturned in '72
There was a death penalty in '69.

But I'm talking about a cultural shift to make the kinds of changes in murder and violence that this country would need to see a real reduction in these horrific crimes. The same thinking that approves of the death penalty is the thinking that approves of torture is the thinking that allows someone to give themselves permission to kill.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. You know this kind of senseless violience against an innocent child
that most people have the instinct to protect, causes a lot of blaming.

We have to blame something, or someone. It is just an automatic reaction.

There are just stupid, ignorant, sociopaths, narcissists, and evil mutha-fuckers in this world.

Everyday there is some type of unfathomable crime perpetrated against an innocent human being. Just think of Darfur right now.

Has it always been this way. I think it has. History is full of nightmares. It is not just this generation or the one before us.

Why is there such evil in this world?? How could anyone kill anyone with their hand?

Where does that come from? I don't think that you can blame our current monsters for this.

And if you really think about it...

Is man just inherently evil, or is he inherently good?

Where did the lines get crossed?

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #52
62. Externals can pressure the already psychotic
I don't think anybody is saying the torture policy causes people to kill children. I think the original point was more of a reap what you sow sort of thing. As the intensity of this violent war and terrorism increases, it's only natural that it starts seeping out sideways in some of the craziest among us. I really don't think it's an accident that Russia and the US have some of the highest imprisonment, alcoholism and violence rate. The constant pressures of the arms war and vying for superiority, I think it takes a toll on the citizens. I imagine adding the oppressive nature of the purtians didn't help anything either. The US is probably the best and worst of the world. There's a certain level of insanity just appearing that isn't related to anything. But you also can't deny that things like lynchings in the south were fueled by engrained racism. We don't do anywhere near enough self-analysis as a people. It isn't completely happenstance that we continuously have leaders who lie us into war, for instance. Or that we have people who commit some of the most horrific crimes that can't even be imagined in other parts of the world.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #49
67. You have it backwards
In 1972 CA passed a death penalty law. I remember that because it was the first election I voted in and voted against the death penalty. Several people have been executed in CA since that time but for crimes committed after the law was signed. That's why Charles Manson and Sirhan Sirhan are sitting in San Quentin maximum lock up rather than on death row.

We have the death penalty in CA but it's doled out a lot less frequently than it is in Texas.


Mz Pip
:dem:
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nsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. I think sandnsea had it right.
California did have a death penalty before 1972. In fact, it executed a person named Aaron Mitchell in 1967, just two years before the Manson family murders. You can find a timeline by following this link: <http://www.deathpenalty.org/index.php?pid=history>
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #67
89. No
The Supreme Court overturned various aspects of the death penalty, along with rulings in California. Those rulings are why Manson and Sirhan Sirhan had their sentences commuted to life.

In 1972, specifically after that 12 year old girl was chopped up around Chico, there was a push to pass death penalty legislation to comply with the new court rulings.

I lived in California from 1960 to 1973, and again from 1976 to 1980.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
90. Never pass up any opportunity to blame every bad thing that happens on Bush
That's what I love about this site.
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TexasBushwhacker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
19. Someone she knew?
An interesting quote from the article:

"In a letter to the sheriff's department, Navarro County Judge Vicki Gray said an autopsy of the body showed "a multitude of events that together caused the death of this child." No other details were released."

It sounds like there were signs of long term abuse.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Yup.
I would expect that in the days ahead, facts will come to light that will bear your hypothesis out.

Question: What are the child protection service in Texas like? Are they effective and competent?

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TexasBushwhacker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. They are horribly overworked and underpaid
There's a good overview here:

http://www.cppp.org/files/4/Privatization%20Policy%20Brief3.pdf

Texas tends to rank near the bottom in per capita spending for CPS, education, mental health, etc. Are we surprised?
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cannabis_flower Donating Member (386 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #26
63. But..
Edited on Thu Sep-13-07 10:08 AM by cannabis_flower
according to the link you provided Texas CPS workers seem to be doing a really bang up job with what they are given. Of course, no credit to the Texas Legislature that seems to think they should do more with less:

The Texas CPS has truly done more with less.


Kansas spends almost twice what Texas spends per child; yet, Texas rates as well as or better than Kansas on almost all of the CFSR key indicators.


Too bad that this child had this happen to her though. Some do slip through the cracks.
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colorado_ufo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. Possibly.
However, it could also point to multiple trauma coming from a single event. (I don't think I need to give graphic details of examples here.)

Let us not be too quick to cast a shadow of guilt toward her parents, who could well be innocent and already traumatized enough. It does seem, however, that law enforcement may have already a good idea of who the perpetrator(s) are, as they are adamant about not weakening their case by giving information to the media.
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Yes, the parents may be completely innocent. This type of thing
could have been done by another child (teen) in the neighborhood. The types of video games that kids are allowed to play & the media that some parents allow their teens to view are confusing to kids who are struggling w/sexuality. I would not be at all surprised if it was another minor who is responsible for this. And that would be doubly disturbing.
:cry:
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #37
70. I was waiting for someone to blame video games
Or maybe it was that devil rock and roll music? :eyes:
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. Or guns.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #37
78. Video games? Are you daft?
Edited on Thu Sep-13-07 02:28 PM by YOY
There is no goddamn connection between violent crime and video games? There has been study after study and there is no f***ing connection. Not a one. NOTHING. Video games do not magically erode players' senses of reality and what is right and wrong and cause them to commit violent acts so kindly stop blaming something you clearly know nothing about.

Unless you truly think Hillary, Ahnuld, and Lieberman are actually addressing a "important issue" when they b*** about video game violence instead of try to address a real issue like...say...the f***ing waste of lives and money that is Iraq.

Furthermore, how do video games even fit in this scenario? I guess you think some kid was playing the top game "Rape and Kill the 6-year-Old"? That's the one all the kids are playing these days. :sarcasm:
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #78
86. Pardon me, but I DO know something about kids & video games.
I teach high school computer courses. I live in a computer lab all day w/teenagers. I can tell when one of my students gets their first violent video game--their behavior towards others changes. When assigned projects using Flash or Paint, etc. they almost always will create as shooting or fighting or other injurious type of product. I do not allow those types of projects, so they must redo the project & often have trouble conceiving another type of format!
I should probably begin keeping statistics on this & write a paper on the data I collect.

I am not vilifying adults playing these violent video games. If you had read my post completely instead of seeing red at the mention of video games being problematic, you would have realized I am talking about young people playing these games. Impressionable young people who are not emotionally ready to deal w/the mature nature of the games.

The worst offender to my knowledge is GTA (Grand Theft Auto). (There may well be others that I'm not aware of since I don't play them myself.) It is not a "game" for kids. But every year, I have kids whose parents buy this game for them for Christmas or birthdays.

Certainly not all kids who play these games are going to go out & act on what they've played in the game. HOWEVER, there are plenty of kids who are emotionally disturbed today; couple those problems w/playing these violent, aggressive video games & you have a prescription for tragedy.

Here are reports from refereed sites that validate my position.

http://www.apa.org/releases/videogames.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16099971/

http://mentalhealth.about.com/cs/familyresources/a/vidgameviolence.htm

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/04/60minutes/main678261.shtml


Note that:

"Playing violent video games like Doom, Wolfenstein 3D or Mortal Kombat can increase a person's aggressive thoughts, feelings and behavior both in laboratory settings and in actual life, according to two studies appearing in the April issue of the American Psychological Association's (APA) Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.

I rest my case.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #86
96. I'm afraid your case is not rested
The dreaded APA study you've brought up has been shot full of so many holes that it no longer resembles simple bullcrap but Swiss bullcrap. It was according to numerous sources and properly conducted studies (a few of which took accounts on those who've worked in the study), improperly conducted, scientifically unsound, and ultimately was thrown out of the courtroom when fundy anti-gaming advocate Jack Thompson (more on him in a moment) tried to use it in one of his numerous failed attempts to connect a violent act with the video game habits of the accused.

One of the best refutes against this incredibly dis proven study, is the incredible lack of ACTUAL violent crime related to video game playing. If you try to record your students and their patterns don't forget that the end result should be trying to connect violent crime with video game playing and not whether they draw angry pictures.

Then there's the Ohio State study that connected aggressive thoughts with video games. The study there basically proved that when you play video games one's puts the brain in a more "aggressive mode." What the study failed to do was mention that that same "aggressive mode" is also triggered by watching or competing in athletic events. Once again, no connection with violent crime and video games.

The bottom line to all these studies is that law enforcement has neither seen a bunch of people running around dressed like Mario collecting coins and jumping into sewer pipes nor have they seen kids running around playing "real life GTA" because they love the game so much. Not happening. THere is no connection between violent crime and video game playing.

With regards to your students, any parent who buys someone under the proper age this game needs to have the living crap slapped out of them unless they have the morality that would also allow them buy their kids some of Hollywood's goriest horror and action pictures. There is a reason why there is a rating sticker on those games and it is enforced. The end result still is: they do not have a greater (or lesser) propensity to commit violent crime. I've been playing since I was a kid. I have no maladjustments that I know of and so are many of my older gamer friends. I am a successful professional with many accolades and a happy family man as well. I have never committed a violent crime, but I do on occasion think about breaking FReepers' jaws... The change in graphics over the years has in no way made it more of a violence causing detriment in kids. If you think the kids need protecting maybe you should team up with Jack Thompson.

Jack Thompson is a Christian fundamentalist anti-video game lawyer who has worked tirelessly and fruitlessly to ban violent video games. He has this habit of trying to connect violent crimes (high profile and committed by young people usually) with video game playing. This includes such cases as the Columbine tragedy (apparently Jack felt that because the boys played a 10-year-old video game that this was the motivation...not bullying, psychological illness, poor parenting, access to firearms, etc...) and the DC sniper (he claimed that the sniper was a gamer who trained on the X-box :eyes:). He has failed on all accounts and it's not because of some vast video game industry conspiracy, but because of a little thing called the First Amendment and the actual lack of evidence to support his theory. Before his crusade against video games he took up such cases as the attempted banning of talentless Gangsta rappers 2-Live-Crew and his political career that included publicly accusing Janet Reno of being a lesbian (she slapped him down verbally HARD.) His misadventures over the years are the stuff of comedic legend.

Which leads me to the final point. You, much like Jack, are blaming video games for violent acts (although I hardly think you're a silly as him) before you actually know the facts. This horror that happened to that little girl was perpetrated not by a video game playing kid, but allegedly by a pedophile boyfriend of her mother. Whether you realize it or not, you accused completely innocent kids (in general not any kids in specific) of committing a crime that they had nothing to do with. That is severely not cool!

There is no connection between violent crime and video game playing in kids, adults, or cats (when the cat steps on the controller.) I rest my case. If you don't believe me play one yourself. I recommend GTA: San Andreas.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #96
100. Garbage in, art out?
Garbage in, art out? Or something like that...
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. I'm sorry you lost me. Begging pardon.
What do you mean? I know the old saying "Garbage in, garbage out" but what are you referring to?
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. Playing violent video games makes us better people
Playing violent video games makes us better people. Running over e-prositutes and gunning down e-law enforcement must have some effect on our psyche, even if the effect is only to a most minimal degree. If violent video games do not in fact make us more violent as you imply, they must mkae us better people. Garbage in, art out.

:shrug:
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #102
104. It doesn't really make us better people ,but it doesn't make us worse
Edited on Sat Sep-15-07 10:43 PM by YOY
I wiped out the Mayans yesterday on the digital edge of my Spanish conquistador's sword. I forced them to convert to Christianity at that very swords point. I really don't feel too guilty about it nor am I about to run amok in the Yucatan with a cutlass and a bible.

It doesn't make me a good or bad person. It really doesn't affect my or anyone psyche as it is simply not real. Only a psychotic (and I do not mean to demean the mentally ill in any way) would view it as a direct connection to reality.

Somethings just don't really affect us in positive or negative ways. Just as reading a book doesn't make you a better person or watching a bit of entertainment. Perhaps a little better informed in some aspects, but neither a better nor a worse person.

I don't see anywhere in my post or in reality where the idea that it makes you a "better" person at all. It simply has nothing to do with one's morality or the swaying of it.

Take that nut who shot John Lennon. Did reading "Catcher in the Rye" make him a better or worse person? Hey, it's a damn good book after all. No, being a mental case was what made him do it. (That and perhaps his psycho fundie upbringing...)

None-the-less, such an example has yet to happen with video gamers.
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. Sometimes I wish I couldn't read,
or see, or hear, or feel.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. I know how you feel. I just had to go visit The Lounge and ...
check out pics of kitties and puppies. This is one of the worst stories I've seen in a while.

:hug:
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
85. I know what you mean...
That poor baby...such a sweet face.

I've got to go hug my kid...
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rubberducky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
27. Stories like this break my poor old grandma`s heart.
But, at the same time a rage is pulsing through me to think someone could be sick enough to be "turned on" by such a sweet little 6-year-old.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
29. How horrible
Very very sad, I hope they catch the MFer that did this.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
31. Oh My God.
:cry:

:puke:
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
36. This is a weird statement
Police asked state caseworkers to not say whether Hannah's family had been investigated by child welfare officers, said Marissa Gonzales, a spokeswoman for the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services. She characterized the request as uncommon.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iDyDrdCXr5Nwk3Wu4GgvCRU-_3Tw

Of course they did, it's standard procedure.


Here's another article I read on this yesterday.

**********************************

Family Wants Justice For Navarro County Child
Death Triggers Feelings Of Guilt For Mother

(CBS 11 News) NAVARRO COUNTY Authorities in Navarro County are investigating the death of a young girl.

The body of Hanna Mack was discovered at her home near Navarro Mills Lake. The child's mother, Dana Mack, found the little girl just before 7:00 in the morning.

A law enforcement source tells CBS 11 News that Hannah was sexually assaulted before she was left hanging inside the garage.

Hanna's family told CBS 11 they want justice for the child's murder.

They also say police told them Dana's boyfriend is one of several persons of interest in the case.

More at link:
http://cbs11tv.com/topstories/local_story_253191522.html



I just hope that they find the person or persons responsible for this vile act, and that they're punished to the fullest extent possible.
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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. I live 35 miles from there-there is talk of the step-father having done it.
Whether you support the death penalty or not-these are the cases that warrant being released in cage of hungry pit bulls.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. I'm not a fan of the death penalty
I have no problems what-so-ever with putting a person such as the one who did this behind bars forever, however.

Gen-pop and let them deal with the other inmates feelings toward them for having molested and murdered an innocent child. Let that be their lot in life for the rest of their miserable time on this planet.

Do you know if the step-father is a different person than the "boyfriend" mentioned in the CBS article I linked? Recently we had 5 people murdered where I live. The local media was much more accurate than the national news in covering the story. I imagine the confusion between "boyfriend" and "step-father" could be a similar breakdown as things filter up the pipes.

If the step-father is suspected this would also explain why they now don't want to go in depth about questioning the family. The media/public can inhibit an investigation such as this without ever intending to do harm.
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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. that was just "the buzz"..a lot of people I work with live there
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #38
84. It makes sense that it would be someone in or close to the family
Which I suspect is the reason why the police are being so closemouthed.

:(
rocknation
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Courtesy Flush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #36
58. CPS NEVER comments on a family's history
I'm a CPS worker. Confidentiality is king with us. We don't talk to the press.

You can bet that when you see a public CPS statement, it has been approved at the highest level, and the agency lawyers have had their input. But as a rule, we're mum.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #58
73. I work with CPS as a CASA volunteer
I agree, confidentiality is king within CPS.

Really, it was one of the reasons I found it weird for the Sheriff to make such a request on something that is a given.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
40. !!!
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
45. poor thing
this is just so wrong.
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SoCalDemGrrl Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
46. What's with Texas???
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-12-07 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
47. Texas and Florida don't suffer from a larger share of horrific crimes
Current crime news from around the nation:

In California: "Mother, ex-boyfriend are suspects in murder of San Jose boy"

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_6856141

A mother, with the help of her ex-boyfriend, are suspected of beating to death the woman's 6-year-old boy, then traveling down to Phoenix, Arizona to bury the boy's body beneath a pile of concrete.

In Virginia: A man is on trial for murdering his girlfriend's 3-year-old daughter.

http://www.insidenova.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=ISN/MGArticle/WPN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173352715158

In Maryland: A Baltimore man was sentenced to 30 years in prison for child sex abuse.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/crime/bal-porn0912,0,2336245.story
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TexasBushwhacker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #47
60. How we get news has changed so much
with the Internets. We hear about things that happen all over the world, right away. It can make the world seem scarier than it really is (which IS pretty scary). These things have always happened, we just didn't hear about them unless they were local, or newsworthy enough that they made the national news.
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UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #60
93. Thank you for pointing that out
Television did that, but not as much as the Net. Before TV, it was radio, and before that, widespread literacy and cheap printing. I'm not being sarcastic or snarky, I totally agree with what you're saying. The smaller the world gets through the faster, wider distribution of information, the scarier it seems, but such horrible crimes existed as far back as anyone is able to look for them.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
59. I'm shaking. What the fuck is this country coming to?
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
64. "WTF is going on with all these sick crimes?" Another example of our failing infrastructure
The Iraq War and $9 trillion debt are wreaking havoc on society. There is very little money for treatment of the mentally ill/ violence prone/sexual predators before it gets to a point where such a crime is committed.

A friend has a son now in jail due to drug addiction, and he was introduced to heroin as a minor in a special school for troubled youth. Once he reached age 18, there was no treatment available to him and he got worse and worse until he committed a crime to obtain $ for his addiction. Just an example of our crumbling social services infrastructure. :thumbsdown:
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. There are an estimated 301,139,947 people in the United States today.
If a tenth of a percent of us were this evil , that would be something like 301,139 people out there committing crimes like this. Say we have about 1 crime a day like this. That would involve something like 0.0001% of us. I don't think crime has gotten worse, just that we're all much more aware of it. There is nothing new about crimes like this. If you go back into history to look at children who were supposedly victims of the Blood libel, the crimes are very similar. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Saint_Hugh_of_Lincoln) Then as now the majority blamed the crimes on "the other". In those cases, "the other" was the Jewish population. Today "the other" looks like "us" so we demand execution to prove that "we" are different.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
69. Update: Mom's Boyfriend Arrested in 6-Year-Old's Hanging
The live-in boyfriend of a Texas woman whose 6-year-old daughter was found dead, hanging in the family's garage after an apparent sexual assault, has been arrested and is considered the primary suspect in the child's murder.

Hannah Mack's body was discovered by her mother Dana on Monday in a garage behind the family's secluded home in Navarro Mills, Texas, about 65 miles south of Dallas. Police said she been sexually assaulted before she died.

"I will confirm that the hanging and sexual assault were part of this scenario," Navarro County Sheriff's Chief Deputy Mike Cox said after the discovery of the body.

Late Wednesday afternoon, investigators with the Navarro County Sheriff's office arrested Kevin Wayne Anders for the unlawful possession of child pornography, a third degree felony. Anders was living with Mack's family.

Authorities said they found images of child pornography during the initial crime scene investigation, and Anders was later arrested and taken into custody. He is being held in Navarro County jail and is the primary suspect in Hannah Mack's sexual assault and murder. Bond was set at $100,000.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3597168&page=1

I see so many of these cases where the mom's hook up with these sick b*stards. Don't they have some clue?
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. I hope they get more evidence than that
That's enough to make him a top suspect, but they'll need more than that to get a conviction. However, there's no telling what they already have and just don't feel the need to release to the public.

I'm sure those in that area are feeling safer now that they've arrested this man.

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TexasBushwhacker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. They don't want to blow the case
I wonder what he'll plea, considering this is a capital crime. Since he's a clerk at an EZ-Mart, he'll have a public defender. His mug shot is here:

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070913/480/d8a76f999a0c4d9eb4fb8550370cafb6

It's sad to say that single moms are easy targets for pedophiles. The man treats the mom very nice and never complains about her kids, because that's who he's really interested in.
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #79
87. I have a friend who use to work for Human Services here, she told me
that it is extremely common for guys to marry the women just to get access to the kids. The easy access to the kids is their main motivation in the marriage. There are many kids going through HELLLLL these days because of women feeling the need to have a man in their lives. Time & again we later hear that the mothers turned a blind eye to what was going on, even though the kids told them, or there was ample evidence of the sexual abuse. :puke:

We apparently have a rampant pedophile nation. Just ask Chris Hanson.


I was shocked to hear this. Guess I've lived a sheltered life, thankfully.
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #69
77. Another Kiddie Porn fan
What a surprise. :sarcasm:

Fuckin' sicko. May he rot in Hell.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #69
81. I heard this on the radio on my way to work
This whole thing is just so horrible and sad.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #69
91. It does make me wonder if that mom is someone who makes a lot of bad choices
It wouldn't surprise me.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #69
103. The sick bastards are on the prowl for single moms with kids.
:grr:
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
76. Murder of such a beautiful child ....
is a cynical contempt of nature itself ....

What a heartless bastard who did this ....
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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
83. with the $2 billion we're spendind a week in Iraq,maybe we could
get a few more CPS social workers,and pay them a decent wage that equals their value to society.
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catchnrelease Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-13-07 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
92. Does anyone know
how common these kinds of crimes are in other countries? I know that there is child slave labor, child prostitution, child soldiers and those types of large scale abuses/horrors. But we see these stories day after day in this country--family members molesting, torturing, killing their children and I wonder if this happens as often outside of the US. (I realize it does happen, I am wondering about frequency.)

This story just crushes me, to think of what her last minutes must have been like. :cry:
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SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
94. Again, it's things like this, and Christopher Barrios, and Carly Bruscia...
...and Danielle Van Dam that make me realize there are just some people in this world who don't deserve to be.
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
95. There's always been sick crimes.
I doubt they've gone up, it's just that widespread internet access has allowed us access to every horrific crime out there. In fact, crime overall is relatively low compared to recent decades.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
97. You know, sometimes I REALLY hate humans beings..
....:grr:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
98. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. I hate to break it to you
Edited on Fri Sep-14-07 12:46 PM by brentspeak
Since it doesn't appear as if you get out of the house very much. But there's racial incidents in every state in the nation. There's shootings everyday in every state in the nation, too.

Also, can you explain precisely what you mean by the word, "everybody"???
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