UAW strikes GM

[Purveyor]

Source: Detroit News

The United Auto Workers launched a national strike today against General Motors Corp. after 10 days of marathon bargaining failed to produce a new labor pact for the automaker's 73,000 hourly U.S. workers.

The stunning move came after the union told its members on Sunday they were to walk off the job unless they heard otherwise by 11 a.m. That word never came, and now GM is facing its first strike since the UAW struck the automaker's operation in Flint in 1998.

The union and automaker have been wrestling for weeks to reach a new pattern-setting labor agreement for Detroit's Big Three automakers. The UAW picked GM as the lead company to strike a deal the day before the current contract expired Sept. 14.

Working under an hour-by-hour extension, GM and the UAW appeared late last to week to have reached agreement on the most difficult issue in the talks - the creation of a massive, union-run health-care trust to cover medical bills for GM's 340,000 retirees and family members.



Read more: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070924/UPDATE/709240402

[Joanne98]

1. HAHA CNBC was saying they wouldn't do it.

[DainBramaged]

4. STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE

NO MORE GIVE BACKS, NO MORE FAT CAT SALARIES, NO MORE ABANDONING RETIRED MEMBERS


STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE

[Lone_Star_Dem]

2. I don't blame them

I'm glad to see them taking a stand.

[Maggie_May]

3. Keep our jobs HERE!

you go guys and when you drive by them don't forget to ask if they need anything. Being on a picket line sucks have done it a few times.

[Zandor]

5. Glad they are standing up

Enough is enough.

[DainBramaged]

6. UAW shocked by GM’s failure to recognize worker contributions

Unlessadughoutnounced today that due to the failure of General Motors to address job security and other mandatory issues of bargaining, the union has set a firm strike deadline for 11 a.m. on Monday, Sept. 24.

“We’re shocked and disappointed that General Motors has failed to recognize and appreciate what our membership has contributed during the past four years,” said UAW President Ron Gettelfinger. “Since 2003 our members have made extraordinary efforts every time the company came to us with a problem: the corporate restructuring, the attrition plan, the Delphi bankruptcy, the 2005 health care agreement. In every case, our members went the extra mile to find reasonable solutions.

“Throughout this time period," said Gettelfinger, "it has been the dedication of UAW members that has helped GM set new standards for safety, quality and productivity in their manufacturing facilities. And in this current round of bargaining, we did everything possible to negotiate a new contract, including an unprecedented agreement to stay at the bargaining table nine days past the expiration of the previous agreement.”

“This is our reward: a complete failure by GM to address the reasonable needs and concerns of our members,” said UAW Vice President Cal Rapson, director of the union's GM Department. “Instead, in 2007 company executives continued to award themselves bonuses while demanding that our members accept a reduced standard of living.

“The company’s disregard for our members has forced our bargaining committee to take this course of action,” said Rapson. “Unless UAW members hear otherwise between now and the deadline, we will be on a national strike against GM at 11 a.m. EDT on Monday, Sept. 24th.”

The UAW negotiating team will remain at the bargaining table.

http://www.uaw.org/news/newsarticle.cfm?ArtId=494

strike strike strike

[OhioChick]

7. Good.

K&R
:kick:

[DS1]

8. In a related story, the price of absurdly cheap looking plastic has plummeted due to sudden lack of

demand

[jakefrep]

86. What? Toyota & Honda went on strike too?

[Zenlitened]

9. "If they think I'm going to take a wage cut and pay more for health care, they're dreaming."

From the New York Daily News:

...Workers at GM's plant in Janesville, Wis., started picketing outside the massive facility shortly after 11 a.m. EDT, halting work on assembly lines that build large sport-utility vehicles such as the Chevrolet Tahoe and Suburban.

"If they think I'm going to take a wage cut and pay more for health care, they're dreaming," said Dave Van fossen, a 48-year-old worker at the facility.

"My utilities just went up 14% and everything else is going up. Why would I accept a pay cut?"

Link:
http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2007/09/24/2007-09-24_uaw_goes_on_strike_against_gm.html

Hang tough! :patriot:

[Indy Lurker]

15. The reason to accept a pay cut is to keep the company in business.

The reason to accept a pay cut is to keep the company in business.


in 2005 GM lost $10,000,000,000 Dollars
In 2006 GM lost $ 2,000,000,000 Dollars
GM should make money in 2007.


from http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/26/news/companies/pluggedin_taylor_ford.fortune/index.htm

Each car made in a UAW plants cost $2,900 more than a car made in a Non-UAW US plant.

"Health care is the biggest chunk. GM (Charts), for instance spends $1,635 per vehicle on health care for active and retired workers in the U.S. Toyota (Charts) pays nothing for retired workers - it has very few - and only $215 for active ones."

"Other labor costs add to the bill. Contract issues like work rules, line relief and holiday pay amount to $630 per vehicle - costs that the Japanese don't have. And paying UAW members for not working when plants are shut costs another $350 per vehicle."


How many people are willing to pay an extra $3000 to get a GM over a comparable Honda?


Nobody wants lower pay or higher medical premiums, but it's just not possible for GM to stay in business with a duplicate of the expired contract.

Best case would be some form of universal health care, that would put GM on a level playing field with Honda and Toyota.

[monktonman]

44. Go down to the Honda / Toyota dealership and compare.

Three thousand dollars more for an American car?
Have you looked at the price of a Toyota pick up lately?
I think not.

[jjungle]

60. UAW STRIKES

How many people are willing to pay $3,000.00 more? I know i am, I have never bought anything but american made automobiles and we should all do the same. Just think about how much of our hard earned money has left this country just because people want to drive a certain vehicle. THINK BEFORE YOU BUY!!! BUY AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!

[CATagious]

81. define 'foreign'

I work at Toyota. My wife works at Toyota. Thousands of others in central Kentucky also work at Toyota. As do thousands in California, Indiana, and San Antonio (and a plant coming soon in Tupelo, Miss). When you are buying a Toyota Camry, Solara, Avalon, Sienna, Tundra, Corolla; you ARE buying American.

[nerddem]

99. exactly!

i drive a bmw, and in doing so i'm supporting my fellow southerners in south carolina

[sufrommich]

116. So are Toyota workers UAW?

or even union members?

[Realityhack]

117. I think what really matters

Is how their workers are treated not wither or not they belong to a union and certainly not a specific one.

I don't belong to a union but I get paid well with good benifits. I don't care if they have a union. I care if the company treats them like shit.

[CATagious]

131. no, they aren't...

but what does that have to do with my point?

[Realityhack]

111. In addition to the excelent points reguarding what is 'american'

You sould also consider that your attitude almost decimated the US auto industry. People purchasing underpar cars because they are american puts american auto makers in a bad position in terms of world wide competition. If a company makes the best car availible for what I need... I will buy that one.

[madmom]

68. the reason GM is loosing money is because the fat cats on the 14th floor

are still getting their outrageous bonuses and salaries and for what--- they're still loosing market share and they get rewarded for it.

[Sherman A1]

74. You said it

Another reason is that they are attempting to sell crappy cars that don't compare with the Japanese in mileage. This is the 1970's all over again. GM Management didn't learn the lesson they were taught last time. They decided to build SUV's to cheat the CAFE standards and that worked out okay until gas went up.

[Realityhack]

112. Um...

Did the 14th floor realy get over 2 billion dolars in bonuses? If the previous poster had his stats right it seems ulikely that executive bonuses are the sole culprate.

[dickbearton]

80. Universal Health Care, Oh really...

Go tell that to the Criminal Bush and the Corrupt, Rotten
Republicans.

[amandabeech]

89. If GM is losing money, then EVERYONE takes a hit.

And that means management, who have a yes-man board that awards them huge bonuses and salaries for making the folks on the shop floor bear the burden of management's bad decisions.

My guess is that the strike wouldn't be as nasty as it will be if management was willing to share the pain.

It is absolutely horrible that companies that have been around a long time fold because they used to treat their employees decently and offer retirement benefits. Needless to say, I'm not impressed with large employers who do not even plan to sponsor a group medigap plan for folks to buy into and I'm not even talking about funding one. You'll understand how important that is when you retire.

As to CNN money, I'm sure you would get a very different picture from a labor-oriented source rather than a management one. I'm surprised that a poster here couldn't figure that one out for him or herself.

[amandabeech]

90. If GM is losing money, then EVERYONE takes a hit.

And that means management, who have a yes-man board that awards them huge bonuses and salaries for making the folks on the shop floor bear the burden of management's bad decisions.

My guess is that the strike wouldn't be as nasty as it will be if management was willing to share the pain.

It is absolutely horrible that companies that have been around a long time fold because they used to treat their employees decently and offer retirement benefits. Needless to say, I'm not impressed with large employers who do not even plan to sponsor a group medigap plan for folks to buy into and I'm not even talking about funding one. You'll understand how important that is when you retire.

As to CNN money, I'm sure you would get a very different picture from a labor-oriented source rather than a management one. I'm surprised that a poster here couldn't figure that one out for him or herself.

[nolabels]

106. I'm okay with taking a hit, especially if helps others to see the error in our ways

Transporting a few hundred pounds of flesh with several thousand pounds of metal tagging along is very inefficient. The whole way the US economy is structured is bass-ass-akward resulting in more being wasted than produced in real terms.

[lonestarnot]

10. Hang in there workers!

[yardwork]

11. Which side are you on?

k&r

[Maggie_May]

12. Just a little info on GM and there new operations

The Detroit Free Press is reporting that GM has opened a new engine plant in China. My sources inside the UAW believe that this is an insulting hit to the Unions at GM going into the national contractual negotiations.

GM has spent $263 million on this plant that will be used for manufacturing engines for the minicars that GM is selling in China. The plant will be able to manufacture 300,000 units a year, and will start production in August.
My sources inside the UAW believe that this action by GM is a direct insult to the UAW. Since national contractual negotiations are right around the corner, the UAW believes that GM is pushing the publicity of this plant just to anger the UAW.

Some in the UAW believe that GM will hang this plant over their heads during the negotiations as a way of pointing out what the future of the automotive industry could be. These people believe that GM will threaten to do open more plants overseas in an attempt to make the Union back off on some of their arguments and demands.

GM has been opening more and more plants overseas, and in Mexico in an effort to save money. There are many in the UAW that believe that the plants are opening up outside of the United States in an effort to break the Union, and to break GM's reliance on the UAW.

The average factory wage in China is about $0.40/ hour (02I1). Two thirds of China's people live on less than $1/ day (02I1). Market rate for unskilled labor: $0.60/ hour (02W1) (The article notes that China's supply of unskilled labor is essentially infinite.) Skilled workers in China earn $100-$150/ month for 50-65 hours/ week. Unskilled workers get $50-70/ month (presumably for same hours)

[Diclotican]

78. Maggie_May

Is not "capitalism" Great;(

Diclotican

Sorry my bad Engelish not my native langugage

[TomClash]

105. "Communist China"

More accurately, State Capitalist China. Where the workers are poor and the multinationals and the State are rich. Nice threat.:puke:

[mountainvue]

13. Amen. Stick to your beliefs, my union brothers and

sisters.

[michreject]

14. And in related news

People who claim to support the union continue to shun American made cars for Asian imports, showing their true support for unions.

[Stuckinthebush]

16. UAW has a presence in US plants for asian companies

http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2008/2008vehicles.pdf

There are a few on this list. Don't denigrate Asian cars just because their parent companies are in Asia. Some have union workers at their US plants.

[michreject]

20. It should read

UAW has a presence in SOME US plants for asian companies.

I will knock any product I choose. I work for GM and am a UAW member.

[Stuckinthebush]

32. Then you know that UAW made products are good

even if they are Asian based.

Right?

[michreject]

37. Don't really care

I only drive GM. My parents retired from there. I hired into GM in 76. GM provided my livelyhood for 30 years.

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. Your labor provided GM's profits for 30 years

Would be another way to look at it...

[michreject]

54. It was give and take

GM provided me with a living wage in order to raise my family. I in turn fulfilled my obligation to the company and gave them a honest days work for the pay they gave me.

[alcibiades_mystery]

85. If it was an even trade then you don't owe them anything

Just sayin'...

In fact, it wasn't an even trade, since profit has to come from somewhere. The irony is that you feel like you owe the company, though they've been siphoning surplus labor from you for years. They owe YOU, not vice versa.

[michreject]

88. They gave me

what they were contracted to give me. Mutual satisfaction and no complaints.

[sufrommich]

125. Maybe he feels he owes

the next generation of UAW workers the same livlihood he had. What's so ironic about it?

[alcibiades_mystery]

137. So it's NOT ironic when labor solidarity transmutes into company loyalty?

Huh?

It's NOT ironic when the debit stands on the side of those drawing profit from surplus labor, yet the laborer feels he owes the profit takers? Huh? This is a bit like the guy who Cheney shot in the face apologizing to Cheney!

The labor movement makes no sense unless one believes in a labor theory of value.

[monktonman]

47. I come form a union family

I drive an American car because of that.
Thats the ONLY reason.
Otherwise GM's cars just suck. Hands down.

[panzerfaust]

56. Fords suck too

But they are union made in America, which is why we have two of them.

However, when we could not afford poor gas mileage, and indifferent quality, I drove a Honda, and my wife drove a (very well used) Saab. Both cars had well over 200K miles on them when we traded them in. Neither ever had any problems. More than can be said for the Fords (one with 30, the other with 95K miles).

[susanna]

98. That's astounding to me, seriously.

My first car, a GM 1984 Olds Cutlass Ciera went 210,000 miles until I sold it in 1991. It was still running two years later. I also inherited a 1993 VW Fox - and it's still going, my sis has it. It was a low mileage vehicle (only 60,000 original miles), but I had some major issues with that thing. Nothing that made me hate it, so much; it was really fun to drive. That said, I wouldn't buy another VW after the quality and service experience I had.

Now, my husband's 1993 Ford Ranger has 135,000 miles and counting; no major problems at all. His brother has a Ranger, too, with 180,000 miles - still going strong. Our 2001 Ford Econoline conversion van is at 100,000; nothing major maintenance-wise at all (one bad accident, not our fault, but some expenditure there).

I can't say much yet, but I have an '07 Mercury Milan that's almost a year old. It has 8800 miles, and hasn't had any major problems. There was one slight wind-dependent rattle from the undercarriage that was fixed quickly (under warranty - no charge). Believe me, I've been looking for the terrible domestic quality I keep hearing about on DU. You'd think me and mine were getting towed every five minutes in our domestic vehicles...but the fact is, I have put in many miles in all of the cars I mention as driver or a passenger. My experience is that our cars have gotten us where we are going safely, then back home safely too; and they have done that for a very long time. We don't worry at all about these vehicles.

This strike pains me deeply for many, many reasons. Not the least of which is the venom I've seen from a lot here on DU about the domestic companies. I don't know what this will do to the industry. I pray it's short and resolved soon. Peace.

[sufrommich]

120. I've driven Fords or GMs all my life

and never had a lemon. I drive a 2001 Escape with 60,000 that has yet to have anything other than minor repairs that are common with age(brake pads,etc.).I drove a 1991 Ford Ranger to 74,000 miles,gave it to my son,who drove it for 5 more years.We donated it to a local charity when he bought a new car.There are alot of people who cry crocodile tears about the state of union workers in this country,who will fall all over themselves making excuses for not putting their money where their mouth is.

[Realityhack]

113. Perhapse

If american car companies designed cars better than other companies they could sell more of them.

I am not blaming the union and I hope all their workers get a fair break. But I will not drive an inferior car just because it's american. That would just make the company think they where making good cars and continue untill they where outclassed by the overseas competition by lightyears.

[Maggie_May]

17. not me born and raised to buy American

Told my kids if they ever pull up in a foreign car they better pull in around the corner and walk to the house. Will not have one in my drive way.

[michreject]

18. Good for you

[monktonman]

51. Yeah my family is the same way.

So I get to drive a shitty car, that I dont want, so I can come for family functions.
I'm cool with that, I love my folks and had a pretty good childhood thanks in part to the UAW.
I am grateful.

That being said, GM cars still suck.
They just do, what can I say.

[jjungle]

67. UAW STRIKES

WHAT A SMALL PRICE TO PAY.....TO BE WITH A FAMILY YOU LOVE AND
HAVE A GOOD CHILDHOOD...THANK GOD FOR THE UAW.

[monktonman]

70. GM cars still suck

[dickbearton]

82. Tell it to management or should I say mismanagement, not the worker.

[monktonman]

102. by the looks of it

there seem to be a few managers here.

[susanna]

100. Self deleted

[Realityhack]

114. The thing is...

as long as we buy them they will continue to suck. If they get your money just because its an 'American' vehicle then why bother to out do the competition.
I wonder how fast American car companies would improve if everyone who bought American for the sake of buying American just started driving the best car they could find. Bet the improvements would help their over-seas sales as well.

[jjungle]

66. UAW STRIKES

THAT ACTUALLY WORKS! MY DAD TOLD ME THE SAME THING WHEN I GOT MY DRIVERS LICENSE 25 YEARS AGO AND I STILL HAVE NEVER HAD A FOREIGN CAR AND NEVER WILL

[Maggie_May]

69. Welcome to the DU

Your Dad is right and my Dad fed a family of five on a UAW factory job. He always said don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[sufrommich]

122. Detroit thanks you Maggie May!!

:hi:

[kysrsoze]

19. Ummm... sorry. Until I see an "American" car that is on-par with "imports," I won't buy one

I don't owe GM, Ford or Chrysler a damned thing. Build me a car that I want to drive, and which lasts a long time, and I'll hop right in line for it. Continue building massive SUV's and sub-par cars, and I'll stick with imports. If I can find an acceptable American-made product, I will go out of my way to buy it, even if it's more expensive. The key term is "acceptable."

I fully support the American worker, not necessarily the American UNION worker. If Honda and Toyota can build cars here while giving the workers good pay, benefits and job security, that's all I care about. Perhaps the reason there aren't any union workers with the imports is because the "import" companies don't treat American workers like sh*t. Eventually the only American location for GM, Ford and Chrysler will be their headquarters, assuming they don't up and move to Dubai. The number of "American-made" cars these companies builds south of the border and in countries such as China, doesn't seem to phase people.

Blame the big 3's designs and management practices, not the worker, NOR the consumer.

[michreject]

21. While my truck only gets 13 MPG

The quality is better than any import.

[RantinRavin]

22. What are you driving that is that low ?

My Sierra ext cab 4x4 gets over 18 with the 5.3L engine

[michreject]

26. 2007 Chevy 3/4 HD 4X4

W/ 6.0. I need it to pull my 32ft.trailer. While pulling the trailer, I get 6 MPG.

[RantinRavin]

30. Ah, that explains it

Those 4.11 gears really make that engine scream.

[michreject]

34. I wanted the Diesel

But the 07 3/4 tons weren't being released until June and I needed mine sooner. I got both the truck and trailer in Feb.

[RantinRavin]

35. Mine is an 07

1/2 ton. Luckily it's the old body style, Sierra Classic. I'm not too keen on the new style. Looks too boxy for me.

[michreject]

39. Mine's the Silverado Classic too

It's a great truck. Heated leather seats. Driver seat memory. Heated outside mirrors. Only option it didn't have was a moon roof. It wasn't too bad with my employee discount.

[RantinRavin]

42. I just wish they would go back to the manual locking hubs

Instead of having to spin the front axles full time.

[panzerfaust]

61. Having lived in Alaska and Montana (and now Texas)

I think that automatic hubs are the ONLY way to go.

No climbing out into the freezing cold - or blowing dust - to pound on the hubs.

It is a rare day that I do not use 4wd. Of course, if the truck lives in suburbia ...

[CRF450]

132. Like it or not, the redesigned models are soo much better than the classics

I cant get over how good the interiors are now.

[kysrsoze]

23. Self-Delete

[michreject]

24. Thank you

[Maggie_May]

28. Thats your point of view

I have a Dodge with over 167,000 miles on it the only thing I have done is the normal tune ups. I bought the car for 19,000 dollars and now my daughter drives it. Guess what I turned around and bought another Dodge. My first one was made in Hamtrack, Detroit this was made in Warren, Michigan. Since my Dad and husband were and are in the Auto business they like to know what line the car is coming off from.

[kysrsoze]

31. We swore off American cars after our Grand Marquis' engine locked up with 80K miles on it, costing

us $2,400.00 to replace. The mechanic mentioned that just seems to happen to a lot of Fords around 80K. The car was a pile of garbage, as was my ex-wife's Pontiac Sunbird. Of course my wife's Jetta was junk too. I could be persuaded to buy the new CTS once I see a few years' more repair records. Now THAT is a well-designed "American" car.

[ingac70]

59. Grand Marquis....

MADE IN CANADA.....

http://www.canadianmade.com/automotive.shtml

[michreject]

48. My 96 4X4 GMC Sierra had 200,000 miles on it

When I sold it to a friend of mine when I got my 07. Truck had no rust, even though it spent its days in the drivway enduring Michigan winters. It ran and looked great. My wife sold it to a co-worker. He loves it.

[CANDO]

40. My guess is you didn't even look at american made cars.

I drive a '99 Buick Regal, purchased new, and it has 112,000 miles on it and still going strong. I fully intend on having this car for a very long time. It has NEVER let me sit anywhere. The only mechanical problem it has had was a power window regulator needing replaced. An absolute dream of a car! If you say you can't find a quality US made vehicle, I'll say you DIDN'T WANT TO FIND ONE!

[michreject]

50. Well said

If you say you can't find a quality US made vehicle, I'll say you DIDN'T WANT TO FIND ONE!

Finally someone who gets it.

[JeanGrey]

83. To me one of the problems is that we don't know

how to make a reliable four cylinder car. I'm not driving a six or 8 cylinder car or truck I cannot afford the gas. Imports excel in these small cars.

[Realityhack]

115. I don't buy that for a second.

We are not talking about finding any US made vehicle that is reliable.

We are talking about finding a vehicle made by a US based manufacturer that is comprable to a forien car in a particular market that the buyer is in.

If I want a small somewhat sporty car with good fuel ecconomy... a super well made 4x4 pickup with a well designed extenstion cab doesn't do me any good.

In some markets the 'American' cars simply aren't up to the same standards. That has improved a LOT but it is not all there yet.

[jjungle]

62. UAW STRIKES

DONT BLAME AMERICAN CONSUMERS WHEN AMERICAN BUSINESSES
FAIL????  WHO ELSE WOULD YOU BLAME??
I OWN A SMALL BUSINESS AND IF I DIDN'T HAVE THE SUPPORT OF MY
CUSTOMERS I WOULD BE OUT OF BUSINESS TOO!

[RantinRavin]

73. I would blame the business as well

for being able to gain and keep the support of it's customers. There is usually a reason they lose that support.

[amandabeech]

91. Those Toyota and Honda workers will have serious health care

problems when they retire unless we have universal health care.

Otherwise, they're on their own without even a group policy to buy into.

Gotta love those Japanese companies.

[raccoon]

108. No, the reason there aren't any union workers with the imports is that the "import" companies build

their plants in "right to work" states.

"Perhaps the reason there aren't any union workers with the imports is because the "import" companies don't treat American workers like sh*t."

[jakefrep]

138. If you don't see "American" cars on par with the "imports", you're blind

Or you're not bothering to look.

[RubyDuby in GA]

25. And the two Fords I owned before my now 10 year old Honda were pieces of shit

As soon as they make one that can stand up to 10 year old, 250K + miles Honda Accord, then I might consider buying one. I don't blame the workers - they only build what is ultimately a poorly designed/engineered automobile. They didn't design it.

And before you accuse me of being against labor, my husband is a Teamster and we are a Labor family.


On edit: my car was also made in Alabama by American workers.

[kysrsoze]

27. Bravo to you - smart consumer and American buyer.

[michreject]

29. Good

I didn't know the auto workers in Alabama were unionized.

[kysrsoze]

36. I don't know that they are, but I'm happy they have the jobs.

I toured the Mercedes plant in Birmingham. That's a hoppin' place for autobile manufacturing. I believe BMW has also opened a plant in the states - they'll have to considering the current valuation of the dollar against the Euro. However, I doubt there are any U.S.-made cars that actually make it over there. Ford, GM, etc., all build euro vehicles in Europe.

[michreject]

52. I didn't think the sarcasm tag was necessary.

Foreign manufacturers in the south are NOT unionized.

[DainBramaged]

119. Japan has made it impossible for us to build in Japan

Fucking free trade my ass.

[ingac70]

58. They aren't. n/t.

[michreject]

64. See post 52

:sarcasm: :)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3003677&mesg_id=3004017

[TommyO]

55. I just bought a two-year old used Chevy Malibu

It is loaded with features, well-priced, and is pretty darned solid. The interior bits and pieces don't have the cheap plastic feel that most older GM cars suffer from, and even my Honda-driving brother liked it (it offers a smoother, though still well controlled, and quieter ride than his Accord).

[michreject]

63. Great

Most domestic bashers won't even bother to check them out. They get their jollies bashing union made products and then bitch about foreign made products when it suits their purpose.:shrug:

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

33. For any of us who care,

this could be the last chance for organized labor. They (GM etal) are working hard to break the union moevement in this ocuntry and have very nearly succeeded. I don't see where the workers have any other choice........... :shrug:

[kysrsoze]

38. Yeah, I agree. I don't know what else they can do. GM seems to be determined to cut loose

its responsibilities.

[alcibiades_mystery]

46. Organized labor in the manner of the union is great for industrial economies

Not so useful in post-industrial economies.

Workers had to INVENT the union movement in response to industrialization. We may well have to INVENT a different sort of movement in response to post-industrialization.

[PM Martin]

41. I just ordered a pontiac!

:wtf:? Last week I ordered it. How long until I get my car?

[jdadd]

43. Shut er down Brothers......

I support UAW made cars and trucks 100%....The myth of better made imports is just that...(a myth)...I've seen some import lemons as well as american lemons. Some people have told me the model I'm currently driving is a lemon,but mine must have escaped somehow. My Taurus was purchased new in 1993 and is still transporting me daily with approx 288,000 miles registered on the odometer. This is all on the origional engine and transmission. :patriot:

[Jack Bone]

49. This is about "Job Security"

IN HIS WORDS: Gettelfinger on the talks, the strike, the issues
September 24, 2007
FREE PRESS STAFF

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070924/BUSINESS01/70924044/1014

UAW President Ron Gettelfinger addressed the media at Solidarity House in Detroit today regarding the national strike against GM. Below are some of his key comments from the briefing.

GETTELFINGER ON RETIREE ANGST: “I don’t think our retirees have any reason for concern…if I were a retiree I wouldn’t be concerned at this time.

GETTELFINGER ON GM: “It was going to be General Motors’ way at the expense of the workers. The company walked right up to the deadline like they really didn’t care.”

GETTELFINGER ON VEBA: “This strike is in no way about VEBA discussions.”

GETTELFINGER ON JOB SECURITY: “The No. 1 issue here is job security,” he said, adding that the union also was fighting to preserve workers’ benefits.

GETTELFINGER ON PACE OF NEGOTIATIONS: “We feel like we’ve made a lot of progress…but there are tough issues that we have to address.

GETTELFINGER ON PICKETERS: “We have no intention of removing the workers off the picket line.”

GETTELFINGER ON GIVE AND TAKE: It does seem odd to us that as much as workers do, workers can’t do enough. And as much as the executives do, they can’t get enough.

GETTELFINGER ON THE STRIKE: “Nobody wins in a strike, but there comes a point in time where someone can push you off a cliff, and that’s exactly what happened here.”

“This is as serious as anything that any of us do. There is not one person on this stage…that wanted to see these negotiations end in a strike. But, again, you can be pushed off a cliff and that’s what we feel happened here.”

*emphisis added by me*

[panzerfaust]

53. Go Go!

There seems little question that the American worker is being screwed by 'globalization' - as, in turn, are the workers in the third-world countries.

When I was a kid, it seemed as though UAW was 'always' striking about one thing or another. On the whole, I think this was good. One of my fears about this is that, having waited so long since the last big workplace action, the UAW members may not be prepared to stay out for as long as it takes.

The other big fear that I have is that this is being forced by GM at a time when they can rely upon the government to come to their aid, and that it may simply be aimed at union busting.

Let's hope for the best: which is that UAW will win the points that are important to them, which are important to US as a free society.

Stand By the Union! Don't buy GM until this is fairly settled.

[ingac70]

57. Past time the UAW got some balls....

They should struck all three 4 years ago.

[whistle]

65. Good for the UAW I hope they get what they are demanding or a quick and reasonable

...settlement they can all agree on. Long strikes can be painful

[Jimbo S]

71. I work in the automotive business

I really don't have a strong opinion in this matter. I don't hold a high opinion of UAW or the Big Three manangement.

However this shakes out, it will eventually end up on the backs of us suppliers. GM and the others will be looking to their suppliers for price concessions. So much for giving *our* workers a nice raise. This is the kind of stuff the general public rarely hears about.

[4dsc]

72. Make sure you boycott all GM products

until the strike is over.. My guess is the GM has quite a bit of inventory they would like to unload during the strike..

[ryanmuegge]

75. I'm sure members of management are laughing at this.

After all, they'll just send all of the jobs overseas.

The workers have no leverage in the "global" economy.

[SlowDownFast]

76. Strike! Strike!

My pops is a retired GM worker (tool and die maker, Hydramatic Plant, Ypsilanti, 30 yrs - now retired in the U.P.) and still active in the union.

UAW rawks!

Rec'd.

[Diclotican]

77. Purveyor

Hello

I am maybee trowing in a fireball here but here it goes

IF the american car industry is beginning to build car who the rest of the world WANT, then they vil come back both to made money, and given all benefits to both they who have retired, and for them who work today?...

The fact is that in the "comon marked" who the most of the rest of the world are living US cars use for mutch fuel for the driving to be living.. If you are paying 11.95 NKR for a LITER petrol (not Gallon as in US but a metric Liter) you dont want a big gaz-drinking car,you want a smal car who use little petron, but who are driving you where you need to be..

There have Japan and the Korean doing it great, spesially the Japanese who made both Cars who are comfortable to drive, and who dont use a lot of petrol...

When/if the US manufacturs of Car are learning this type of lesson, they CAN build car who the rest of the world want, and then survive.. As it lock like now, the future in american car industri are to the japanese car builder to grasp.. Even the "great old car" Ford are strugling against Toyota to make car who REALLY are good to drive.. The american car industri is GREAT to build BIG car vith BIG eniges.. But that is not what the rest of the world WANT.. And that is the reason becouse even Ford are going trhu a beating from Toyota..


Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[amandabeech]

93. Ford and GM manufacture cars overseas for the overseas market.

I'm very surprised that you didn't know that. The GM car in Europe is called the Opel. In fact, Ford and GM usually post a profit in their overseas operations, although they are not in every market. Chrysler has been a part of Daimler Chrysler until very recently, and by itself did not have a world-wide presence like Ford and GM. Daimler sold some Jeeps overseas, which are made by Chrysler.

Very few U.S. cars are exported for the reasons that you state. In fact, many of the Japanese cars sold here are not sold in many markets overseas because they are as large as U.S. cars and don't get much better gas mileage.

U.S. vehicles are made to U.S. pollution and safety standards which are different from those in Europe and Japan, in particular, our vehicles are heavier because of the extra safety equipment and structures in the cars. U.S. manufacturers sometimes try to modify their overseas models for sale here, but really there are so many changes that the cars just aren't as good as if they had been designed for U.S. specifications in the beginnings.

Another factor in the equation that you have missed is that labor is cheaper in many overseas locations than it is here due to the lower cost of living and huge labor surpluses. Even when worker productivity is higher here, we have strong and enforced safety and environmental standards that many low-wage countries do not have.

Then there is fashion. Many U.S. executives follow management consultants. These people generally have little real world experience, but they're good at selling their theories on how to make more money. Many times these consultants are just wrong, but they whip up the press and management follows, sometimes because the shareholders also read the same papers as the executives. Some small manufacturers are moving back from Mexico because they are not making more money like the consultants say, but they are afraid to advertise it to their shareholders. Eventually that may spread elsewhere--like to China. People are like lemmings; you just have to get them started.

Or else the U.S. may jettison so called "free trade" in favor of a trading system that keeps sufficient decent jobs here to keep social and political stability. We get closer to real problems that cross party lines every day. Even Bill Clinton's free trading treasury secretary Bob Rubin has come around to seeing the real problems with so called "free trade." You can't say that no one warned you.

[Diclotican]

136. amandabeech

I know;). And if you had missed it too. Opel have maybe a unfair repotation as a car with a lot of problems.. Have a good friend who was reparing his Opel more than he was driving the thing...

Dailmer-Crysler have been partner ca 10 year If I dont get it verry wrong, and for some reason Crysler var out of the "house" with Daimler.. I dont know why but it maybee some with that Crysler not exactly havent been the best car manufator laterly?

I know about that many japanese car who are sold in US are not exactly at the smal size but rather the larger type.. But it is a symbol that the Japan made cares are sold better in US than US cars...

Wel I disagree completely with that "saftey issuse". The american car manucaftors have not doing its job when it come to petrole comsumsion in many year beforse the "saftey issuse" was coming into play.. Why can European and japanse car made the saftey thing that less hevy in exempely Norway, than they can build it in the US?.. New Eropean and japanse car have a lot of saftey inside it, even my old Toyota Corolla have some verry genius "saftey" in the car, and that was long before the Airbag was coming into play....
The US made cars use a lot mor petrol than they japanese and european counterpart. Thats the reason becouse american car are doing it so bad lately. When you have prizes that the american "joe" can get nightmares of, then you dont drive the car with the higest consumtion of petrol.. If the american peopole really was up to a shock, they should live by the prizes many other parts of the world are living by this times..
My familiy have had a lot of american made cares before, it was Dogdes, A Ford, and some others car I just dont rembember this time around.. But they verry seldom was under 1 liter for the mile, Its maybe not that unasly in the US, but when japanese car cand drive the same length for .5 liter a mile (the metric type mile) Then you have to deside who car you vant to drive.. And in our case, it have been japanese since 1992... Before then, we do have some german made Ford Taunus, ok in the summer, horrible in the winter becouse the was like sleaders on slipery roads.. And we was living into the woods so the car usaly get into the side of the roads some times a year.. And have to be pulled up by the naibours tractor:P. But when Subaru was coming home, it was not more tractor-pulling from the side of the car... And of course Subaru is japanse:
And, in many years the american made car was not exactly "safe". In the middle of 1980s they was starting to step into the case, and building car who was more safe then before.. But it was LONG after japanese and eurpean car manufactors had understand that saftey is the BIG issue for many car byers.. And that allmoust "killed" the american made car in Europe in the first place..

Off course it is the sheap labour in many other car.. And the car manufactors are going for the "sheapes" labour everywhere they can find it.. To sement the "bottom line" of course.. This type of thinking is STUPID, why waste skilled workforce for the sake of some more dollar?.. But the leaders are not thinking that way, but allways trying to get some dollar more out, even as it mean that the manufactored goods is not that up to scale that it was before.. And the wictim of that?. The american worker, who have to either get less paid, or get fired.. And if I dont recall totaly wrong, may tousands of american car worker have been fired the last 10 year, both to get strugling firms to surive, but also becouse they want to "safe" som bucks in the prosess...

Consultants is just that. But exutives have to use they brain before they are relocate whole factories, becouse some "consultants" was telling them that if you send the factory to China you can get 10 fould again... Tousands, maybee ten of tousands of hard working american have lost everything they have, becouse of that.. And they have to fight for them self.. The most of them get into other jobs, but some never had/have a job again... spesially the older ones.. And the american car manufactos even canibalise the pentions found, becouse they have that bad economy. What shall the worker who had worked more than 40 year in one place do, when the pention found is dry, and you dont have saved enough to get tru in your elderdom..

As I have said in the first post. When US manufactors are building car who both US want, and the rest of the world want, they wil come back and beat Toyota big time. But so long they are building for the most part big gassgusling SUVs you wil never get ordinary pepole back the wheel... When you can get a litle japanse or european car with 150 horsepower who use maybe from .5 to .8 , and then get a big SUV with the same horsepower, but with the prise of 1.5L for 10km they you deside for the smal europan or japanse car.. If you then dont have the pocket to drive the big SUV then.. THen you pay for the price anyhow..

I do belive that american car manufactors _can_ build a car for lets see, european mared who are both safe, and dont use over one liter for the mile.. THEY manage to put a man on the moon, why cant they use the know-how to build engines who dont use a lot of petrol?: It is lazynes for the manucators side. Have them just been sleeping in for long, and now have to get to grips that werry many pepole dont want to use half they salary on petrol anymore?.. That is the big issue outside US where you can get 4 liter for 3 dollar.....

Many warned that free trade can come back and hunt us. They was usaly told to shut up, and do as the "economist" was telling you to do.. When the reality of "free trade" are coming to hunt us, sudlendly it is not that nice after all funny enough.. But try to sell that to the "consultans" or the "economist" and they wil just look at you and dont understand what you are saiing...
Social and political stability is important, and have been that so long socity have been existing. And I guess that over 40 million poor american are doing "some" for the "social stability" part... How many more american wil end up desolute before the worst exesses of "free trade" have ben stoped?.. Many mor with THIS administration I am afraid...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[amandabeech]

139. Before I answer any further,

may I ask where you live?

[Diclotican]

142. amandabeech

Norway, a smal country in the north of Europe, nabour to Sweden Denmark, Finland and Russia

Living outside of our capital Oslo, in a smal town called Asker, not exactly a City, but rather big to be just a place..

In fact, the railway-link who are going tru Asker Station is making this station the 3 most trafficed station in Norway... But it dosent lock that way when you are there then... A verry "new" station by the way, have been outfited and rebuild quite good the last cople of year...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[ileus]

79. UAW strikes GM, Toyota takes over #1....LOL

[amandabeech]

94. You really think that's funny?

[leaninglib]

84. Killing the goose...

It appears that the UAW is more interested in creating jobs in Mexico than preserving jobs in the USA.

[Maggie_May]

87. Not mexico and its not the UAW

I know my brother-in-law is a big wig at GM they are building in Japan and China. Its not the cause of the UAW if they had there way these guys would get min wage GM don't give to shits about their employees.
The Detroit Free Press is reporting that GM has opened a new engine plant in China. My sources inside the UAW believe that this is an insulting hit to the Unions at GM going into the national contractual negotiations.

GM has spent $263 million on this plant that will be used for manufacturing engines for the minicars that GM is selling in China. The plant will be able to manufacture 300,000 units a year, and will start production in August.
My sources inside the UAW believe that this action by GM is a direct insult to the UAW. Since national contractual negotiations are right around the corner, the UAW believes that GM is pushing the publicity of this plant just to anger the UAW.
The average factory wage in China is about $0.40/ hour (02I1). Two thirds of China's people live on less than $1/ day (02I1). Market rate for unskilled labor: $0.60/ hour (02W1) (The article notes that China's supply of unskilled labor is essentially infinite.) Skilled workers in China earn $100-$150/ month for 50-65 hours/ week. Unskilled workers get $50-70/ month (presumably for same hours)

This is what GM thinks about its work force!

[leaninglib]

128. I don't think this is about how GM regards is workforce;

rather, it's about the fact that GM's workforce has shown more loyalty to the UAW than it has to GM.

Unfortunately, you don't have to be a good shot in order to shoot yourself in the foot.

[amandabeech]

141. Read a little history.

The UAW exists because GM has never had loyalty to its workforce.

Loyalty is a two-way street.

I hope that you keep that in mind when you deal with your employees.

Management is just as likely to shoot itself in its foot as any other group, in my personal observation.

[amandabeech]

95. GM just does what it wants anyway.

And often what it wants backfires.

Labor is cheap and environmental and safety rules are non-existent in Mexico. However, societal conditions in Mexico are not so hot, or so I've been told.

I don't know if you are aware, but Mexican insurgents recently cut natural gas lines to some U.S. plants south of Tampico. If this becomes a habit, Mexico may look less inviting. I understand that the drug gangs are also problems, as is a workforce that increasingly doesn't like Yanquis.

Of course, the GM executives are not known for far-sighted thinking.

[leaninglib]

129. I do what is best for my business; likewise, GM should do what is best for GM.

And it is the UAW that is demonstrating that it is the shortsighted one of these two entities.

[amandabeech]

140. Just curious, but what part of your philosophy makes you a Dem or a liberal?

Clearly, you are very management oriented.

Just curious.

[scarface2004]

92. i own a cobalt

great car..that said i don t think a strike is going to have any effect on the public at large

[PM Martin]

109. I just ordered a pontiac!

When the HELL is it going to come now? :wtf:

[nerddem]

96. i forget where i heard it,

but someone made a compelling case that the real reason why u.s. automakers would die out and not be able to compete was because of unions. the workers ask for these packages that nowadays are more expensive to finance so they have to pass the cost on to car buyers.

i know for a fact that in my trade, union workers are actively prohibited from taking measures that would make them more efficient and competitive, but because philly's laws are so skewed towards forcibly using union labor, it creates an artificial protection.

now, before alarmists get all up in my shit, i fully recognize and appreciate the contributions unions have made to labor laws in the past, but nowadays they really are just doing the workers themselves a disservice, at least when it comes to construction

[nerddem]

97. i'll follow that up by saying i drive an american car

sure, it has a german label on it, but it was assembled in south carolina

[ProudDad]

104. Gee, what about their shitty decisions?

Detroit has actively resisted every innovation, every decent idea in car design and promoted the WORST ideas for as long as I've been alive.

Their first great f*ckin' idea was killing all of the great mass transit systems to that they and big oil and the tire companies could make great whopping short-term profits...

They resisted seat belts, disc brakes, decent gas mileage (still), etc. etc. etc.

They don't give a shit about any workers or their "country"...

In addition, thanks to the Taft-Hartley Act of 1947 (vetoed by Truman but passed over his veto by DEMOCRATS joining a republican minority), Labor unions have been stripped of nearly all of their power.

That's why most union contributions have indeed been "in the past"...

So, yeah, there are "silly work rules", etc. that are the crumbs from the table that management allows the company unions that pass for labor organizations nowdays to get so that the union "leaders" can look good to their members (while they join management at the resort swimming pools)...

Meanwhile, unions have little or no power against the corporate capitalist masters...


So blame the Union members for something that's not under their control ... :shrug:

[Odin2005]

101. Shut her down, boys!

STRIKE! STRIKE! STRIKE!

[ProudDad]

103. Imagine if we had Universal SIngle-Payer Health Care

the retirees health insurance wouldn't be an issue...

GM would pay a few billion a year into Single-Payer...problem solved.

Then the brothers can negotiate wages and working conditions just like the good ole' days...


HR676 -- Universal Single-Payer -- it's also a solution to many nasty contract negotiations...

[harun]

133. I think about this alot, I think nearly all corporations would prefer

single payer, except the Health Insurance industry. Think about how much easier it would make it on all of them. Unions wouldn't have to ever negotiate their health benefits every again.

[raccoon]

107. I don't suppose it would ever occur to GM management to take some pay cuts, or forego bonuses. nt

[DainBramaged]

110. STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE NO MORE CONCESSIONS TO FAT CAT CEO'S

[DainBramaged]

118. Wall street doesn't give a shit about the American worker, only the stock price

Kramer showed his true colors on Harshballs tonight. All Wall Street and the fat cat investors care about is the stock price, nothing more, and he was giddy as he talked about Caterpillar breaking the Unions in the 90's.

Fuck 'em all, STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE or there won't be an American auto industry.

[sarcasmo]

121. My Sixty year old Father held the picket sign for four hours this morning.

That old Man has 37 years in and still believes in his Union. They have some big ones for striking in this economy, my hats off to them.

[sufrommich]

123. Thank your Dad for all of us here in Detroit

who have good paying unions jobs because of the UAWs "big ones".We all owe a great debt of gratitude to those old guys!!My family has multiple UAW members,going back 3 generations now, and I'm proud of all of them for fighting the good fight.

[DainBramaged]

130. Tell your Dad this ex-UAW member is there with him tonight

When my Dad was in the bricklayers and carpenters Union in the 50' & 60's 28% of the country was Unionized, now 8% is.

[hogwyld]

124. Good Riddance GM

And take your useless fat cat CEO's with you. Take your shitty designs, crappy quality, and awful fuel economy, and don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!

[CRF450]

134. Does anyone make competetive car to the Z06 Corvette that match its fuel economy?

The Lambo's will never see 30mpg like the Vette can on the highways, in fact they get less than half that. Thats with a 7.0 505hp pushrod v8!

GM is starting to get past the perception of "shitty cars" as they have been improving. Some good new cars are on they way in the coming years. Pontiac G8, a much needed RWD sedan. Chevy Malibu is getting a redesign for 08, and it looks soo much better than the current ones! The Camaro's making a comeback too, a much wanted car for us performance enthusiasts. And the Chevy Volt, an electric hybrid. Its said to reach 150mpg.

[sufrommich]

126. Nice article in The News today

about the level of support the strikers are getting around town:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070925/UPDATE/709250434

I think I'll call my union rep tomorrow to see if we can send some comfort to the strikers. I hope other union members will do the same.

[tammywammy]

127. I drive by a GM plant everyday

I saw about 50 picketers out there last night, it was around 9:45ish.

[CONN]

135. “As goes General Motors so goes America”

My understanding is that for years GM estimated that the pension fund would make great returns on investments. This way they did not have to fund the pension (more money for bonuses to manager?).

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/bms/2005/0406.html

"Like many other members of the S&P 500, GM projects an expected rate of return of 9% on its pension assets. Such exceedingly optimistic assumptions served to increase GM's operating profit by $8.7 billion in 2001 and $8.1 billion in 2002 even though pension assets posted losses of $5.3 billion in 2001 and $5.4 billion in 2002."