Bush administration urges Social Security cuts

[maseman]

Source: MSNBC/AP

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration said Monday the only way to permanently fix Social Security is through some combination of benefit cuts and tax increases.

That was one of the key findings in a new paper on Social Security released by the Treasury Department in an effort to achieve common ground on the politically explosive issue.

"Social Security can be made permanently solvent only by reducing the present value of scheduled benefits and/or increasing the present value of scheduled tax increases," the paper said. The Treasury paper said that while other changes to the giant benefit program might be desirable "only these changes can restore solvency permanently."


Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20957376/

---

I swear they are just trying to make their approval rating go down more. WTF?

[BOSSHOG]

1. Okay, as conservatives like to say

ITS YOUR MONEY. Give me every penney I have put into social security for 30 plus years right now. What? You haven't gotten it all? You pissed it away on a war for lies? You don't know what happened to it?

The GOP to its base. GOVERNMENT DOES NOT WORK, PUT US IN CHARGE AND WE WILL PROVE IT.

[kysrsoze]

2. Wait, I thought they weren't supposed to raise taxes. What a lying @ss!

[BOSSHOG]

5. Check out the latest

This Modern World featuring Alan Greenspan. Nails em again. I do not know how to do the wizardry to share it with you here but it is conservative economics in a nutshell, brought to you by a Penguin with a mask on.

[Lasher]

47. Here's a link to the toon

http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2007/09/24/tomo/

I have posted images here before but I can't get that one to work. Don't know why. :-(

Edit: Got it to work.



Here's how to do it: http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/faq.html#image

[beberocks]

3. Price of the war in Iraq.

I wonder how "safe" all those elderly * voters will feel when they have to eat cat food to survive? That Social Security account is just to big and tasty for * not to pillage.

[rfranklin]

16. Cat food is too fucking expensive...dumpster diving for all!

No Fancy Feast for you lazy old sods! (Speaking as one who is on the brink of S.S. age)

[Kurovski]

35. Cat food from China could put an end to all financial worries.

[Delphinus]

50. They'll not recognize that it was

their support of the boy king that drove them to that level.

[Lerkfish]

4. but the way to win the war is to massively overfund it and not set any oversight

bizarre

[JuniperLea]

6. Fine... Give me back the $4000 I put in this year...

Then we can talk about EZ payments... from the US to ME on the balance owed!!

[daleo]

7. They have to pay for the war somehow

People will just have to suck it up, and work until they drop dead. Endless war is expensive.

Think of the horse in Animal Farm.

[rich1107]

8. Solution

Repeal the tax cuts to the wealthiest that these criminal dolts in congress and the administration doled out. Then add a new tax...let's call it the "Freedom Tax" at 50% of income in excess of 10 times the minimum wage x 40 hr week. Freedom Tax = the freedom the rich have to to rape and pillage the working poor and middle class to build their financial portfolios.

[davekriss]

29. I support that completely

Dump on another 10% for anyone registered as a Republican...

[Trajan]

42. LMFAO ....

Freedom Tax ..... HAH !

Even Luntz would have to smile .....

I like you ... Stick around and share ....

Welcome to DU ....

[Roland99]

9. It's pretty much true, though.

Fiscal Wake-Up Tour
http://www.concordcoalition.org/events/fiscal-wake-up/


Almost Unnoticed, Bipartisan Budget Anxiety
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/17/AR2005051701238.html

[Bitwit1234]

10. IF reagan had not started the raiding of social security

to balance all the tax cuts he gave to the rich, and the following administrations had not followed suit, social security would have been solvent. They republicans could not stand all the money in the fund. They had to per their usual selves "steal" it. And just imagine all the money wasted in Iraq. I shouldn't say wasted...I should say given to bush's friends, families and the corrupt corporations.

And one other thing to you think that bush and cheney are really thinking about the so called rapture and bringing the world to an end. If they did the crooked, lying S.O.B.s would not be amassing all that money. The real God won't let 'em use it in Heaven oh oh...I mean satan won't let them use it it Hell. He might dangle it to cause torture...but then again maybe he likes water boarding.

[lligrd]

22. Yep, They Spent It

They want to break SS and we sit back and let them.

[Trillo]

11. Not this broken record, again.

It's the other half of "Social Security privatization".

[denverbill]

12. Why not CUT social security taxes to raise revenue? Isn't that the Republican solution?

After all, they claim that works with all the other taxes they've cut for wealthy people.

These assholes raised SS taxes under Reagan. They raised them more than necessary to fund current obligations, claiming they'd save the money for us baby boomers. Instead, they stole the money and used it to fund general NON-social security business, and gave tax cuts to the wealthy.

I say raise general revenue to pay back the social security surplus they stole.

[Supersedeas]

17. don't give them any ideas

[denverbill]

21. They would never do that. NEVER.

Reagan cuts taxes for the rich claiming it would increase revenue. He then raised Social Security taxes to increase revenue.

I, for one, would love to hear Republicans explain how raising a regressive tax like Social Security increases revenue while raising income taxes and taxes on capital gains and dividends does just the opposite.

[eringer]

13. Enough Already About Social Security

Bush is powerless to do anything about social security except (with talk like this) scare the elderly Republican gay bashers to the Democratic side of the ballot once the curtain is drawn on election day. To say something like this with only Dana Perino to do the spin control is irresponsible. Lets hope he keeps it up!!! :rofl:

[Zenlitened]

14. Please please PLEASE make headline that part of the GOP platform!!!!

:rofl:

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

15. I was going to say how does he expect to

pull this off with a democratic majority in congress.....:eyes:

[Auggie]

18. Mmmm.... this IS a mystery..

[Yupster]

69. He doesn't

This is his note to the time capsule so that someday when the system must be changed, history will say that he tried to change it and was stopped.

[roxnev]

19. All Republicans are stupid greedy A$$ holes

The Republicans led by Idiot Bush has spent the Social Security surplus killing Iraq women and children. Now they want the Social Security people to pay for his fuck ups It is time to pay back the money borrowed from Social Security and the people on social Security low end could have a well deserved pay raise Fu@k G. W. Bush.:sarcasm:

[liberal N proud]

20. Here we go again

After the Social Security.
These fuckers have been after this program since the day it was enacted. Calling anything SOCIAL bad and stealing from it to pay for their indiscretions and tax cuts.

FUCK YOU GEORGE W. BUSH!

[Yavapai]

23. Hmmm, still believe in gun control?

Maybe the investment some of us made earlier in life, buying guns, reloading equipment and ammunition wasn’t such a bad idea after all. Anybody know of any recipe books for eating the rich? Do we cook them like pork or are they all slimy and have to prepared like Okra?

Alpo gets very tiresome after a while...

[cutlassmama]

37. my first thought ;) Too bad I can't buy one :(

This is frelling ridiculous! You can tell Bush doesn't haven any relatives on Social Security. I already know some old ladies who are literally living on cat food as it is being on Social Security. I can't believe this filthy rich * could even utter those words. I'm so mad right now, I need to get off line. I'm blowing a gasket!!!

[everydayis911]

24. Why don't they

Find the 2.3 TRILLION dollars missing from the Pentagon 09/10/01????? I'm sure Ole Donald musta found it by now. Maybe it's under his mattress. If they find out where that money went it would answer a lot of questions about everything.

[benld74]

25. CUT THIS YOU F*cker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ryanmuegge]

26. This has to happen.

With the shift in demographics, there has to be an either/or choice between having a military or having these entitlements. We cannot have both. I wish someone in power would be honest about this for once, rather than pretending that we can have both. This is a fiscal necessity. Cutting taxes for the rich twice (once in 2001 and again in 2003), particularly in light of all of the inevitable budget crises with Social Security and Medicare, was a criminal act. And of course Bush and the elite corporate cabal knew all along that cutting taxes would exacerbate these problems. No one believes that Laffer Curve shit, not even its advocates.

[tabasco]

31. Social Security is not an entitlement.

It is insurance that people pay for through payroll taxes.

Calling it an entitlement is right-wing language.

A choice between having social security or a military? LMAO.

Go peddle your right-wing claptrap somewhere else.

[ryanmuegge]

43. I am FAR from right-wing. You misinterpreted the post in your haste to attack.

Before you pidgenhole me as a right-wing freeper, re-read the post. You're hung up on semantics. I fully support benefit programs and investment in people, rather than war. Hence, the dichotomy presented in the post. This is an alternative to drastic benefit cuts or abolition of the programs.

There is an excellent article in Harper's about this from a couple years ago.

Medicare is a TREMENDOUS fiscal crisis. Social Security is not as bad. The demographic shifts will impose drastic burdens.

Do we not spend more than the rest of the world on offense? Ok, then...that'd be the first place I'd look for drastic spending cuts to make these programs safe without cutting benefits.

[lumberjack_jeff]

60. It IS an entitlement.

entitlement: benefit to which participants are entitled.

On the contrary, the negative connotations currently associated with the word "entitlement" is promulgated by the right wing.

Social security probably does need to be tweaked to remain solvent. The challenge is the well-earned distrust of those who currently have the job of designing those tweaks.

[uppityperson]

32. Social Security is an entitlement? Chose between SS or military? bwahahahaha

are you series that this is the only choice? No military or no social security? Are you series that soc sec is an entitlement, and that I have no entitlement to any of the money I paid into it, that I should not assume that because I paid into it that I am entitled to get anything out? You are funny.

[ryanmuegge]

41. It's a fiscal necessity when a country spends more than the rest of the world on offense (empire).

And, no, I am not advocating cancelling Social Security. Actually, I thought it was quite clear, at least implicitely, that I was advocating the US giving up empire and investing in people, rather than war. I would rather get rid of the military than drastic benefit cuts, but I'm not the pro-empire warhawk that many "moderate" Democrats are, apparently.

The fiscal burden, with Medicare in particular, is considerable, to say the least. Sacrifices must be made. Look at the data, not just by right-wing groups.

When I say entitlement, I am saying what THEY (the Republicans) call it. I do not mean that in a derogatory sense.

[uppityperson]

56. Thank you for the clarifications.

[rich1107]

67. Sacrifices must be made...

by those that benefited from the tax cuts, i.e., the rich...see my proposed Freedom Tax above;)

[Morereason]

45. We have enough for both, but that does not excuse outrageous military spending

If we must we could means test SS. There are plenty of options. They just want you to think otherwise and keep tolling the propaganda every so often. You don't deserve to retire with a roof over you head. At least that is what they would like you to think.

[Lasher]

48. No means testing. Incredibly bad idea.

We don't need to make any cuts at all to Social Security. Just leave it alone and the General Fund will redeem the Treasury Bonds the Trust Fund is holding.

[lumberjack_jeff]

61. The trust fund will run out eventually.

The system probably needs modest tweaks to prevent it.

The general fund should redeem those bonds. Unlike "reform" the tweaks necessary don't forgive the general fund its debt to retirees.

[Yupster]

70. Don't you think the fact that the general fund is broke

will be a problem when it's asked to come up with 4-5 trillion dollars that it doesn't have and has no means of getting.

[uppityperson]

57. What do you mean "SS"? Why?

If you mean start changing stuff within the program, why? It is working pretty well, and changing things can easily make things worse. Must be careful about changes made and not make major ones.

[happyslug]

68. A means test will kill Social Security, which is why FDR OPPOSED a means test

Basically as long as most people believe they will get a Benefit from a program, they will support it and agree to pay taxes to support it. On the other hand, if most people do NOT think they will need a program, it has little support. The classic comparisons is Welfare and Social Security. As long as MOST people believe they will get Social Security (SS) they will support the taxes to pay for Social Security (SS). As long as most people do NOT believe they will ever need welfare, welfare will remain small potatoes (In my home County you get only $174 a month on welfare, and unless you get a Doctor to say you are disable AND apply for SSI, OR you have a child living with you under age 18, you only get it for 2 months over a two year period).

I mention Welfare for it is low paid. The reason is simple, it is means tested and as such most people do NOT think they will EVER have to depend on it. On the other hand if most people believe they will get a benefit, they support taxation for that benefit. Thus Social security has massive support for it, while welfare has almost none. Franklin D. Roosevetl (FDR) knew this when he proposed Social Security and thus opposed Means testing for Social Security (SS), as has every Democratic President since (Plus Eisenhower). Of the Republican Presidents, except for Eisenhower, I do NOT believe any of them believed in Social Security and thus supported means testign whenever it came up as a way to "save" Social Security (SS).

My point is simple, to means test Social Security is to kill it, for once it is means tested, most people will no longer believe they will get it and support for Social Security will disappear. That is why Means tested is supported by people who OPPOSE SOCIAL SECURITY and OPPOSED BY PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT SOCIAL SECURITY. It is the kiss of death.

[Daphne08]

34. A choice between having a military or Social Security??

That doesn't make sense. (Oh, and Social Security is NOT an entitlement.)

[ryanmuegge]

44. We spend more than any other country in the world on empire.

Calling it "defense" relative to its real world application is a hilarious misnomer.

I'm sure most of us here would agree that empire is not necessary. Thus, the Pentagon would be a good place to make drastic spending cuts. Taking monetary resources from an sector absolutely unnecessary (the military) and putting them toward something essential and beneficial for everybody (Social Security and health coverage) is a reasonable idea.

Look at the long-term data. The current system, with massive empire spending and mandatory benefit programs relative to demographic shifts, is unsustainable over the long-term.

[rodeodance]

27. THIS IS ALL YOU NEED to KNOW To VOTE Democratic--This was my

subject line as I passed to all I knew.

[L0oniX]

28. S.S is a just pyramid scheme ...fuck the elderly and the disabled

:sarcasm:

No ...don't screw over the elderly and the disabled. Americans are mean enough as it is. Yea ...social security is just a pyramid scheme. That money is all going to the war and all its contractors. There won't be any left for those who have paid into it.

[superconnected]

30. Bush campaigned on not cutting social security and leaving it alone.

He already broke his word by trying to privatize it. Now he want's to cut.

[EVDebs]

33. Raise the income 'cap' from $90k to $120 at least. eom

[OnionPatch]

66. Exactly! Just raise the cap, already!

Just raise the cap to whatever it needs to be to cover everyone. I get so sick of hearing about it when the answer is so simple!

[The Backlash Cometh]

36. Fucker should sell Crawford and Kennebunkport and replenish the federal

coffers with the proceeds.

[cutlassmama]

38. And the ports in Dubai and the land in Paraguay.

[rocktivity]

39. Roll back the tax cuts, eliminate the salary cap so everyone can pay a lower rate

Crisis over.

:headbang:
rocknation

[FreeStateDemocrat]

51. Hillary is against removing or adjusting the salary cap as she stated in latest debate aired on PBS.

[rocktivity]

53. But she's not for private accounts?

:headbang:
rocknation

[olddad56]

59. Okay, lets make the election about SS, anything but the illegal invasion

[Yupster]

71. And make everyone who's allowed to not be in social security

get back into it.

That one change would be a huge help to social security's actuary tables.

And why is there a priviledged class of workers who are allowed to not join social security anyway?

[Bleacher Creature]

40. Who in their right mind would trust BUSH on this issue?

Seriously, anyone who does deserves what they get. Unfortunately, that would mean that we all suffer.

[melody]

46. Prepare for the onslaught of propaganda about how poverty is "good for us"

They've already tried the "gas prices going higher will solve the obesity epidemic" BS.

[Lasher]

49. They want to do as much damage to Social Security as possible on the way out.

Their 'privatization' snake oil didn't sell, so they now want to cut benefits as much as they can. They're OK with an increase in payroll taxes because they're regressive and more trust fund surpluses could be funneled off to support more tax cuts for rich people.

Just leave Social Security alone. The current 'chrisis' has been manufactured as an excuse to gut the program.

[Le Taz Hot]

52. OH, this baby boomer WILL

get her SS when the time comes or she will be taking it out on some Congresscritter's gonads! It's easy, boys and girls, raise the ceiling to $250,000. Now, that wasn't so hard, was it?

[raccoon]

54. Right on! I'd rather my taxes go for SS than for all these imperial wars. nt

[mbperrin]

55. Social Security can pay full benefits with no changes until 2041.

The system is in surplus and has been for 25 years, ever since we raised withholding rates. The $3 TRILLION PLUS surplus is "borrowed" as the largest part of the national debt. The bastards want to steal it, so they try to convince us it is not there. It is there. After 2041 (THIRTY FOUR YEARS FROM NOW), we could simply increase the wage cap to around $250,000 and that fixes it for as good as any numbers will go.

DO NOT let the bastards steal the social security surplus! Do NOT let the bastards talk you out of your social security. Do NOT let the bastards charge you brokerage fees to access your money! INSIST that your congressperson and Senators read the report of the trustees of the social security system, which proves solvency at full benefits until 2041!

The treasury secretary urging changes is the same liar who announced that we had deflation last month - the economy is so good, that we had no price increases, just great money saving price decreases, while milk here in west Texas is $5.37 a gallon and gasoline $3.09!

[SomeGuyInEagan]

58. That is my understanding as well

From my reading - and something that Al Franken wrote about and said repeatedly on his Air America show - Social Security is the MOST stable government program in the world.

No other program, anywhere, has money in place to keep it going for another 30 years. Most everything else is pay-as-you-go for state and federal governments - NOT SOCIAL SECURITY!

When Bush talked about finding a file cabinet full of IOUs when discussing Social Security, he was talking about finding a file cabinet full of U.S. Government Bonds and T-Bills, the safest investment on the planet. If those "IOUs" lose their value, Social Security will not be among our biggest problems. Why NOBODY in the national media called him out as a liar or an idiot on that day is beyond me.

The problem is ... all that money just sitting there. The Republicans are licking their chops at both destroying the most popular government program ever, FDR's legacy and getting at that money.

[Yupster]

72. How do you figure the money's in place

when it's been spent?

There is no money in the trust fund. It has been looted to pay for wars and other stuff. The trust fund is an empty safe.

[sadiesworld]

63. This can't be repeated enough.

Thanx.

[Phrogman]

62. HOW DARETHIS SORRY ASS EVEN THINK of....

cutting SS benefits after all this money he's thrown down the gawddamn toilet.

[mtnester]

64. L-O-C-K-B-O-X

I repeat

L-O-C-K-B-O-X

[Yupster]

73. Lockbox was and is meaningless semantics

It had no meaning at all. It was absolute useless jargon.

[Acadia Blue]

65. After they funneled all the money to their corrupt friends via the war,

and gave their friends a tax cut so the country would go broke and they could steal everything. It was planned deficits to take everything from the working class and middle class and redistribute it to the lords of the manner, the American aristocracy. That Son of a _____ has destroyed everything good in this country and he does hate anyone not in his stinking priviledged position.