Tutu says Zimbabwe situation like apartheid

[struggle4progress]

Source: AFP

26 September 2007

JOHANNESBURG (AFP) — South Africa's Nobel peace laureate Desmond Tutu on Tuesday launched a new attack on the authorities in Zimbabwe, saying their treatment of dissidents was reminiscent of the apartheid regime.

"The stories we are hearing of the harassment of political opponents, detentions without trial, torture and the denial of medical attention are reminiscent of our experiences at the hands of apartheid police," said Tutu, who was a leader of the struggle against South Africa's whites-only rule.

The former archbishop of Cape Town refrained from commenting on how the crisis could have been mitigated by more efficient management, saying it was "a matter for debate by people better-qualified than me."

"There is no debate, however, when it comes to the perpetration of human rights violations, reports of which, according to churches and NGOs, are on the increase." ...

Read more: http://www.nehandaradio.com/tutu260907.html

[Ezana]

1. Some information about Zimbabwe

Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe is a bad leader. But, before condemning anyone based on information from the media, I think that it is imperative on any one to first have a wider perspective on the issue.

If it helps, I would like to share some information about Zimbabwe.

- Zimbabwe was colonoized by the British.

- During colonial time, the British government took all the lands from the local population and sold it to white settlers.

- During the time of independence and after that almost all arable lands were under the hands of white settlers.

- During the final negotations for independence (after armed struggle) The Zanu-PF liberation movement (now the ruling party) agreed, the so called LANCASTER AGREEMENT, with the British government. The agreement states that: the British Government should return the money to the white settlers within ten years time and the white settlers should return the land to the rightful owners, the native Zimbabweans, within that time.

- But, ten years passed and the British government did not implement the agreement, inspite of many reminders from Zimbabwean government. Another ten years passed and nothing is done by Britain.But about tens years ago, Britain started to have a fallout with the Zimbabwean government and its media started attacking Robert Mugabe. This has infuriarated Mugabe and warned Britain that he has tolerated the injustice upto now because he does not want to affect the good relationship between the two countries. But now that Britain has itself started to spoil the good relationship, Mugabe said that Zimbabeans have overdue legal claim that need action from the British side. And warned Britain that unless Britain do something about it, Zimbabwe has the right to reclaim the land from the white settlers. And that is exactly what he did: He reclaimed what is rightfully his, Zimbawe's. But, he did not take all that is his he left each white farmer one farm (some white farmers used to have about fifty comercial farms).
Angered by this and fearing the entailing possible consequences, (the possibility that other countries, like South Africa and other former British colonies might do the same), the British government started to demonize, otherwise a democratically elected government. The British and its allies started sabotaging, boycotting and sactioning the Zimbawean economy. And the result is what we see now, a badly hurt Zimbabean Economy.

- So leaving all the propaganda aside: Mugabe has not stolen or illegally taken any land from the White settlers, he is democratically elected, there is relatively better free press in the country. If you consider the ten most democratic countries in Africa, Zimbabwe is one of them.

- The Zimabwean Economy is down not because of Mugabe Economic Policy, but because of the conspiracy hatched to unseat him.

Ezana

[harpboy_ak]

2. And the lands Mugabe took back lie fallow

Mugabe took the land back from whites and instead of giving it back to the people, gave large farms to his political cronies, who had no clue how to farm. So the people that had been working on the successfully run white owned farms were not only out of jobs, but the farms no longer can produce the food Zimbabweans need, creating food shortages which fuel hyper-inflation.

Zimbabweans should start another revolution to throw out the crooks and put in an honest government.

At least the white farmers could keep the people fed.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

8. the largest land owners in Zimbabwe are still white,

The wealthy Rhodesians saw the way the wind was blowing and went into business with Mugabe and in exchange over the last 25 years have done very nicely for themselves, while poor slobs with a family farm were run off the land.

I have had this subject out with the DU Robert Mugabe Fan Club a million times, they are beyond reasoning.

The largest enablers of Robert Mugabe, post colonial hero and freedom fighter, are the old money of Rhodesia!

See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2904578&mesg_id=2906896

[robcon]

3. Astonishing "information" about Zimbabwe, Ezana

"The Zimabwean Economy is down not because of Mugabe Economic Policy, but because of the conspiracy hatched to unseat him.

The economy is down because his political enemies have hatched a plan to unseat him. In other words, the hyperinflation, printing presses for money, price controls that have made it impossible to turn a profit (prices fixed/costs skyrocketing) have nothing to do with the hideous results in Zimbabwe???

That's interesting "information" that only a slavish devotee of Mugabe could come up with. What a hoot!

[bigworld]

4. Zimbabwe was rich, democratic, and prosperous

ten, twenty years ago. Whatever raw deal the country got from Britain (and it did) is NOT responsible for the mess it is in now. Mugabe was a decent leader but he's gotten paranoid and dictatorial in his old age. The hunger, hyperinflation and cronyism are directly his fault.

Zimbabwe (Rhodesia) was granted independence in 1965 and it has been ruled by Mugabe since 1980. The UK in the 1980s actually bought many white-owned farms and redistributed them to landless (black) farmers. Mugabe simply stole land and gave it not to farmers but his political associates.

Too many people are afraid to criticize Mugabe because he is black and was a decent leader. Well black Africans CAN be poor leaders, and good leaders can turn bad. This is Mugabe's fault, pure and simple.

[Javaman]

6. Ahh another hit and run poster

got to love these tools.

peddle your propaganda else where.

[otherlander]

9. Democratically elected...

Yes. But his government brutally oppresses groups that try to use those same democratic means to change Zimbabwe in ways that he doesn't like. A lot of the opposition to Mugabe is made up of Zimbabwe's trade unions; I doubt that they wish to see the farmland returned to the white settlers.

[Dr. Strange]

11. That's pretty good...

but normally this kind of material is placed in the Lounge.

Or, were you trying to be serious?

[rinsd]

13. I love the caveat that he is a bad leader before you go on to absolve him of doing anything.

Yeah so what if the political opposition is beaten and killed by police at his behest.

After all Zimbabwe was a colony and he's only been in charge for 30 years or so.

:eyes:

[Beerboy]

15. Well, that's good enough for me.

I don't need to give 2 shits about what has happened to Zim because now everyone who hasn't escaped are all miserable, except for ZANU-PF honchos. It's totally OK for Mugabe to shut down the MDC, by any means necessary.
Fuck 'em.

[Freddie Stubbs]

5. Desmond Tutu? Who is this guy? He must be one of those neo-colonial apologists

;)

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

14. yup... looks like he is headed for a neck lacing

the preferred punishment for apartheid era collaborators

[struggle4progress]

16. Police necklaced activist, truth body told

CAPE TOWN March 11 1997 — Sapa

A security police hitsquad "necklaced" a Mamelodi, Pretoria activist after first strangling him to death, a former security policeman told the Truth Commission's amnesty committee on Tuesday.

W/O Paul van Vuuren's evidence to the committee followed last week's announcement by the African National Congress that it would submit new evidence to the commission proving that the police were involved in "necklace" murders, in which victims were burnt using petrol-doused car tyres placed around their necks.

The ANC said its submission would also show how the police "manipulated propaganda" in an attempt to discredit the ANC and implicate it in necklace murders ... http://www.doj.gov.za/trc/media/1997/9703/s970311e.htm


Further Submissions and Responses by the ANC to Questions raised by the Commission for Truth and Reconciliation
12 MAY 1997

... The extent to which the NP has consistently tried to use the phenomenon of "necklacing" to damage the ANC and divert attention from their own atrocities has always raised the suspicion that they were involved in some of these incidents. It was certainly their agent, Joe Mamasela, who was centrally involved in creating the conditions under which the first recorded "necklacing" took place, which was conveniently filmed in horrific detail, immediately sent out world-wide, and portrayed as "evidence" of the savagery of the ANC. A number of covertly-funded fronts were prominent in propaganda campaigns focused on "necklacing." ...

In October 1987, the Botha regime refused to grant The Sunday Tribune permission to quote OR Tambo after he had made a speech in which he stated that the ANC was strongly opposed to the practice of "necklacing." Helen Suzman commented that this was a "shameless use of selective prohibition. (...) A statement where "necklacing", one of the most outrageous acts attributed to the ANC, is strongly discouraged, yet the government does not allow this to be published."

In yet another example of dishonest attempts to exploit the issue of "necklacing", untrue statements by bank robber Lucky Malaza, who somehow was "mistakenly" released by the De Klerk administration as a political prisoner after falsely claiming to have been involved in a necklace murder, have been quoted at some length in the NP's latest submission to the TRC ...

http://www.anc.org.za/ancdocs/misc/trc2.html

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

7. Cool when is the march.

Actually this reminds me of a funny thing that happened in my youth. The kids in my high school decided to have an anti-apartheid march. So a couple of hundred students and their parents decided to have the big march, signs were made, streets were closed off etc.

Now do you remember that scene in Blazing Saddles where they look around at the town they built knowing they forgot something but couldn't exactly think what. That happened to us and then it dawned on us. We had no black people in the march. Since the public high school was all white. (Heck even the beaches were for residents only so they were all white. we quickly sent a couple of teams of people to the a neighboring town that had it's own schools and beaches and was 80% black to recruit some color.

It was that day I gained my sense of irony and realized there are a lot of dumb rich white motherfuckers in this world.

[bigworld]

12. Nothing wrong with a buncha white folks

protesting apartheid.

[otherlander]

10. kick