Scoop for Spanish Daily: Transcript of Private 2003 Bush Talk Promising Iraq Invasion

[sabra]

Source: E & P

NEW YORK El Pais, the highest-circulation daily in Spain, today published what it said was the transcript of a private talk between President George W. Bush and Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar on February 22, 2003, concerning the coming U.S. invasion of Iraq. It took place at the ranch in Crawford, Texas.

The conversation took place on the President's ranch in Crawford, Texas. The source for the leak was said to be someone in the Spanish government.

Bush purportedly said he planned to invade Iraq inf March "if there was a United Nations Security Council resolution or not....We have to get rid of Saddam. We will be in Baghdad at the end of March."

He said the U.S. takeover would happen without widespread destruction.

Aznar pleaded for patience and replied that it was vital to get a U.N. resolution, noting that public opinion in Spain was strongly against the war.


Read more: http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003646639

---

article:

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/Llego/momento/deshacerse/Sadam/elpepunac/20070926elpepinac_1/Tes

rough translation: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elpais.com%2Farticulo%2Fespana%2FLlego%2Fmomento%2Fdeshacerse%2FSadam%2Felpepunac%2F20070926elpepinac_1%2FTes

[blm]

1. So, it wasn't just some senators who believed war was avoidable

through the weapon inspections.

The Spanish people have actual news organizations. Americans were being forcefed the lies that BushInc needed to be told.

[UnclassifiedProducer]

30. Can we start impeachment investigation now?

While Bush was telling the American people he was trying to avoid a war, he was telling foreign leaders he was going to invade Iraq regardless of UN?

Never mind...Dancing with the Stars is back on!

[superkia]

49. No! Too many people signed on to that war for oil.

I don't think it will ever happen. Our career politicians knew that oil played a role, even the unelectable Dennis Kucinich said it was about oil back in 2002 when he stood alone and voted no. He had the integrity and balls to stand up and speak the truth. I don't believe that our career politicians just didn't know and were fooled.

[PassingFair]

97. He DIDN'T stand alone.

The MAJORITY of the house dems voted NO.

[SpiralHawk]

2. "Smirk, smirk, smirk" - Commander AWOL

"We must find a way to maximize war profits for our republicon homelander cronies, and to avenge my Skull & Boner Poppy and the massive disgrace he brought on our occult Skull & Boner cabal, Because I am a freaking cowardly Deserter, I want to create and illusion and be remembered as a War President Tough Guy, smirk, smirk,smirk"

- Commander AWOL (Uber Chickenhawk Hero of the Republicon Homelander Chickenhawk Brigade)

[chervilant]

22. Have you noticed

Poppy Bush is remarkably absent and silent these days? Last I saw of him, he was sobbing into a mic at an event to honor Jeb. I remember thinking it must be Dubyah's antics that caused his meltdown.

[liberation]

26. The old fart is still around...

... between making millions from the Carlile group, he surfaces every now and then to let us know how unfair people are to his boy. As if we should feel ever so sorry for the plight of his poor son, working so hard and yet so misunderstood.

Screw him, and the horse he rode on.

[TheMadMonk]

50. Horse yes. Him, I'll leave up to you. nt.

[raccoon]

3. Let's rate this up and get it on Greatest! K&R. nt

[rodeodance]

9. and send outside the Choir

[UTUSN]

4. Well, K&R #4, but what is it about this that we didn't know?!1 n/t

[bigworld]

5. The Google translation

actually doesn't make Bush sound any worse than usual. In fact, there are some four-syllable words there!

[grahamhgreen]

7. Fantastic signature

[dipsydoodle]

6. K & R

.

[Auggie]

8. K&R, but I don't know why

It's apparent news like this isn't going to get w impeached. Congress doesn't care. Neither does the media.

[aggiesal]

10. Shocked, Shocked, I say. I can't believe there is gambling going on here. ...

Capt. Renault in Casablanca, when shutting down Rick's.

This is much the same way.
Shocked, that they lied us into a war.

You're right. There is nothing new here.
Yet congress will doing nothing to impeach this band of criminals.

And our MSM will not report this story to the US.

[Auggie]

25. "Your winnings, sir..."

Thanks aggiesal. I needed a laugh today.

[stubtoe]

27. I know, it's so damned frustrating.

BFEE must go.

[ramapo]

11. Top news on CNN?

No, seems to have been ignored. Not a mention of it seen.

[npincus]

12. "This is as the Chinese torture of the water. We must end it."

F*ck you, Killer-B*sh.

[Barrett808]

13. AFP: Bush threatened nations that did not back Iraq war: report

MADRID (AFP) - US President George W. Bush threatened nations with retaliation if they did not vote for a UN resolution backing the Iraq war, according to a transcript published Wednesday of a conversation he had with former Spanish prime minister Jose Maria Aznar.

In the transcript of a meeting on February 22, 2003 -- a month before the US-led invasion of Iraq -- published in the El Pais daily, Bush tells Aznar that nations like Mexico, Angola, Chile and Cameroon must know that the security of the United States is at stake.

He says during the meeting on his ranch in Texas that Angola stood to lose financial aid while Chile could see a free trade agreement held up in the US Senate if they did not back the resolution, the left-wing paper said.

The confidential transcript was prepared by Spain's ambassador to the United States at the time, Javier Ruperez, the paper said.

(more)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070926/pl_afp/spainusiraqwar

[Roland99]

15. Isn't EXTORTION, ummm, ILLEGAL???

[Demeter]

42. Only If You Get Caught , and the Victim Insists on Prosecution

[avrdream]

45. So much for the Coalition of the Willing, huh?

This goes so far beyond embarassment.

[drm604]

24. Vote up that Yahoo story! n/t

[bdamomma]

14. International Criminal Court where are you??

I only wish these bastards were associated/or our country with the International Criminal Court.

[pansypoo53219]

16. all i can say is duh.

i knew he was gonna do it no matter what. and the fucking senate didn't.
i just hope they are smart enouf to se iWan is the same.

[JaneQPublic]

17. GWB quote, March 2002: "We're taking him out"

From Time Magazine, May 13, 2002:

Two months ago, a group of Republican and Democratic Senators went to the White House to meet with Condoleezza Rice, the President's National Security Adviser. Bush was not scheduled to attend but poked his head in anyway--and soon turned the discussion to Iraq. The President has strong feelings about Saddam Hussein (you might too if the man had tried to assassinate your father, which Saddam attempted to do when former President George Bush visited Kuwait in 1993) and did not try to hide them. He showed little interest in debating what to do about Saddam. Instead, he became notably animated, according to one person in the room, used a vulgar epithet to refer to Saddam and concluded with four words that left no one in doubt about Bush's intentions: "We're taking him out."

Dick Cheney carried the same message to Capitol Hill in late March. The Vice President dropped by a Senate Republican policy lunch soon after his 10-day tour of the Middle East--the one meant to drum up support for a U.S. military strike against Iraq. As everyone in the room well knew, his mission had been thrown off course by the Israeli-Palestinian crisis. But Cheney hadn't lost focus. Before he spoke, he said no one should repeat what he said, and Senators and staff members promptly put down their pens and pencils. Then he gave them some surprising news. The question was no longer if the U.S. would attack Iraq, he said. The only question was when.

-------------More at http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1002405,00.html

[Doctor_J]

18. better check the font on this report before we run with it

:eyes:

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. The British government has also claimed it was forced into war by the USA

The heart of the argument in March 2003 was whether we could allow Dr. Blix and his colleagues more time to complete their inspections. The problem was that, although we wanted to allow Dr. Blix more time, there was not an effective international consensus for doing so.

Jack Straw, Foreign Secretary, House of Commons, 12 Oct 2004

Of course, that may just be Straw trying to cover his arse in case of future Hague prosecutions. Still, 'I was only doing what Bush told me' probably won't be much of a defence.

[stubtoe]

28. Oh what a load!

This is legacy laundering, plain and simple. Blair sits on the Carlyle Group because he played along. Question is, what did Straw get?

:mad:

[dipsydoodle]

20. Prensa Latina has it now too

During the meeting, Bush and Aznar phoned Blair and then Italian President Silvio Berlusconi.

The minutes of the meeting reveal threats to members of the UN Security Council, a plot against the report on weapons of mass destruction presented by inspector Hans Blix, and the goals of the Azores meeting between Bush, Aznar and Blair on March 16, 2003.

On the Azores islands, the three politicians agreed on replacing the UN Security Council and usurping its functions to declare the genocidal invasion of Iraq on their own account and risk.

http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={AB306A82-3AC5-469F-A3FA-3A56B6AB20ED})&language=EN

[Massachusetts]

21. Impeach When?

How about now Nancy!
DO YOUR FUCKING JOB!

[Gonnuts]

23. Another brick in the wall ...

Add this to the Downing Street Memos and the rems of evidence, the fact that rice still hasn't complied with the subpoenas issued by Waxman about the prewar intelligence, the fact that it was bush that ordered the inspectors out of Iraq as they were pleading for more time to complete their jobs and all the other stonewalling and lies and one has to wonder why these war-mongering, war profiteering criminals are not only not behind bars but still in power?

Of course bush will come out with the "he said/she said" defence. If none of this was transcribed it's worthless. But added on to all the other evidence you have to believe it happened.

[L. Coyote]

29. Translation of Bush's Comment. "We foresee occupying the oil wells very quickly."

This is my translation of President Bush's comments, in part.

==========================================
Sadam Husein no cambiará y seguirá jugando.
Sadam Hussein will not change and will continue playing.

Ha llegado el momento de deshacerse de él. Es así.
The moment to get rid of him has arrived. It is so.

Yo, por mi parte, procuraré a partir de ahora utilizar una retórica lo más sutil posible, mientras buscamos la aprobación de la resolución.
I, for my part, beginning now will endeavor to use the most suble rhetoric possible, while seeking passage of the resolution.

Si alguien veta, nosotros iremos.
If someone vetoes, we will go.

Sadam Hussein no se está desarmando.
Sadam Hussein is not disarming.

Le tenemos que coger ahora mismo.
We have to catch (f**k) him right now.

Hemos mostrado un grado increíble de paciencia hasta ahora.
We have demonstrated an incredible degree of patience until now.

Quedan dos semanas. En dos semanas estaremos militarmente listos.
Two weeks remain. IN two weeks we will be ready militarily.

Creo que conseguiremos la segunda resolución.
I believe we will get the second resolution.

En el Consejo de Seguridad tenemos a los tres africanos , a los chilenos, a los mexicanos.
In the Security Council we have the three Africans, the Chileans, and the Mexicans.

Hablaré con todos ellos, también con Putin, naturalmente.
I will speak with all of them, also with Putin, of course.

Estaremos en Bagdad a finales de marzo.
We will be in Bagdad by the end of March.

Existe un 15% de posibilidades de que en ese momento Sadam Hussein esté muerto o se haya ido.
There is a 15% probability that Sadam Hussein will be dead or gone by that time.

Pero esas posibilidades no existen antes de que hayamos mostrado nuestra resolución.
However, these possibilities do not exist until we have shown (passed) our resolution.

Los egipcios están hablando con Sadam Hussein.
The Egyptians are talking with Sadam Hussein.

Parece que ha indicado que estaría dispuesto a exiliarse si le dejaran llevarse 1.000 millones de dólares y toda la información que quisiera sobre armas de destrucción masiva.
It seems he has indicated he is amenable to exiling himself if allowed to take a billion dollars and all the information he wants about weapons of mass destruction.

(Muammar El) Gaddafi le ha dicho a Berlusconi que Sadam Hussein quiere irse.
(Muammar El) Gaddafi has told Berlusconi that Sadam Hussein wants to go.


Mubarak nos dice que en esas circunstancias existen muchas posibilidades de que sea asesinado.
Mubarak tells us that in those circumstances the possibility exists to assassinate him.

Nos gustaría actuar con el mandato de las Naciones Unidas.
We would like to act with the mandate of the United Nations.

Si actuamos militarmente lo haremos con una gran precisión y focalizando mucho nuestros objetivos.
If we act militarily we will do so with great precision and with our very focused objectives.

Diezmaremos a las tropas leales y el ejército regular rápidamente sabrá de lo que se trata.
We will decimate the loyal troops and the regular army will quickly understand what that means.

Hemos hecho llegar un mensaje muy claro a los generales de Sadam Hussein: los trataremos como criminales de guerra.
We have delivered a clear message to Sadam Hussein's generals: they will be treated as war criminals.

Sabemos que han acumulado una enorme cantidad de dinamita para hacer volar los puentes y otras infraestructuras y hacer saltar por los aires los pozos petrolíferos.
We know they have accumulated an enormous quantity of dynamite to blow up the bridges and other infrastructure and to blow up the oil wells.

Tenemos previsto ocupar esos pozos muy pronto.
We foresee occupying the oil wells very quickly.

También los saudíes nos ayudarían a poner en el mercado el petróleo que fuese necesario.
Also, the Saudis will help us to put oil in the market as necessary.

Estamos desarrollando un paquete de ayuda humanitaria muy fuerte.
We are developing a large humanitarian aid program.

Podemos ganar sin destrucción.
We can win without destruction.

Estamos planteando ya el Irak post Sadam, y creo que hay buenas bases para un futuro mejor.
We are already planning the post-Sadam Iraq, and I believe there are good foundations for a better future.

Irak tiene una buena burocracia y una sociedad civil relativamente fuerte.
Iraq has a good bureaucracy and a relatively strong civil society.

Se podría organizar en una federación.
It could organize as a federation.

Mientras tanto estamos haciendo todo lo posible para atender las necesidades políticas de nuestros amigos y aliados.
Until then, we are doing everything possible to attend to the necessary politics of our friends and allies.

[L. Coyote]

32. Another segment with Condi Rice "Blix will now be more negative"

PA.
¿Cómo se combina la resolución y el informe de los inspectores?
How will the resolution be combined with the report of the inspectors.

Condoleezza Rice.
En realidad no habrá informe el 28 de febrero sino que los inspectores presentarán un informe escrito el 1 de marzo, y su comparecencia ante el Consejo de Seguridad no se producirá hasta el 6 o 7 de marzo de 2003.
Actually there won't be a report on Feb. 28 unless the inspectors present a written report on Mar. 1. and their testimony to the Security Council will not be produced until March 6 or 7, 2003.

No esperamos gran cosa de ese informe. Como en los anteriores, pondrán una de cal y otra de arena.
We have high expectation of that report. Like in those previous, they may play hard to get.

Tengo la impresión de que Blix será ahora más negativo que lo que antes fue sobre la voluntad de los iraquíes.
I have the impression that Blix will now be more negative than before about the Iraqi intentions.

Después de la comparecencia de los inspectores en el Consejo debemos prever el voto sobre la resolución una semana después.
After the testimony of the inspectors to the Council we should foresee the vote for the resolution one week later.

Los iraquíes, entre tanto, intentarán explicar que van cumpliendo sus obligaciones.
The Iraqis, also, intend to explain that they are completing their obligations.

Ni es cierto ni será suficiente, aunque anuncien la destrucción de algunos misiles.
It is not certain nor will it be sufficient, even if they announce the destruction of some missiles.

PB.
Esto es como la tortura china del agua. Tenemos que poner fin a ello.
That's like Chinese water torture. We have to put an end to that.

PA.
Estoy de acuerdo, pero sería bueno contar con el máximo número de gente posible. Ten un poco de paciencia.
I agree, but it would be good to count with the highest number of people possible. I have some patience.

PB.
Mi paciencia está agotada. No pienso ir más allá de la mitad de marzo.
My patience is running out. I don't think I'll go beyond the middle of March.

PA.
No te pido que tengas una paciencia infinita. Simplemente que hagas lo posible para que todo cuadre.
I'm nt asking that you have infinite patience. Simply that you do what is possible so that everyone agrees.

PB.
Países como México, Chile, Angola y Camerún deben saber que lo que está en juego es la seguridad de los EE UU y actuar con un sentido de amistad hacia nosotros.
Countries like Mexico, Chile, Angola, and Cameroon ought to understand that what is in play is the security o the EU and act with a sentiment of friendship towards us.

(El presidente Ricardo) Lagos debe saber que el Acuerdo de Libre Comercio con Chile está pendiente de confirmación en el Senado y que una actitud negativa en este tema podría poner en peligro esa ratificación.
Lagos ought to know that the free commerce agreement with Chile is before the Senate for confirmation and that ny negative actions in this area might endanger ratification.

Angola está recibiendo fondos del Millenium Account y también podrían quedar comprometidos si no se muestran positivos.
Angol is receiving funds from the Millenium Account and this too could be compromised if they don't act positively.

Y Putin debe saber que con su actitud está poniendo en peligro las relaciones de Rusia con los Estados Unidos.
And Putin ought to know that with his attitude he is endangering relations with the United States.

[L. Coyote]

38. Another segment BUSH "....Milosevic is a Mother Teresa."

PA. ¿Es cierto que existe alguna posibilidad de que Sadam Hussein se exilie?
Is it true that some possibility exists that Sadam will go into exile?

PB. Sí, existe esa posibilidad. Incluso de que sea asesinado.
Yes, the possibily exists. Including that he be assassinated.

PA. ¿Exilio con alguna garantía?
Exile with some guarantee?

PB. Ninguna garantía. Es un ladrón, un terrorista, un criminal de guerra.
No guarantees. He is a thief, a terrorist, and a war criminal.

Comparado con Sadam, Milosevic sería una Madre Teresa.
Compared to Sadam, Milosevic is a Mother Teresa.

Cuando entremos vamos a descubrir muchos más crímenes y le llevaremos al Tribunal Internacional de Justicia de La Haya.
When we invade, we will discover many more crimes which we will take to the U. N. International Court of Justice in de Hague.

Sadam Hussein cree que ya se ha escapado.
Sadam Hussein believes that he has escaped.

Cree que Francia y Alemania han detenido el proceso de sus responsabilidades.
He believes France and Germany have halted the process of their responsibilities.

Cree también que las manifestaciones de la semana pasada le protegen.
He also believes that the statements of the past week protect him.

Y cree que yo estoy muy debilitado.
And he believes I am very debilitated.

Pero la gente de su entorno sabe que las cosas son de otra manera.
But the people surrounding him understand things differently.

Saben que su futuro está en el exilio o en un ataúd.
They understand that his future is in exile or in a coffin.

Por eso es tan importante mantener la presión sobre él.
This is why it is so important to maintain the pressure on him.

Gaddafi nos dice indirectamente que eso es lo único que puede acabar con él.
Gaddafi tells us indirectly that that is the only way that it can end with him.

La única estrategia de Sadam Hussein es la de retrasar, retrasar.
The only strategy of Sadam Hussein is that of delay, delay, delay

PA.
En realidad el mayor éxito sería ganar la partida sin disparar un solo tiro y entrando en Bagdad.
In reality, the best outcome would be to win the game without firing a single shot and entering Bagdad.

PB. Para mí sería la solución perfecta. Yo no quiero la guerra. Sé lo que son las guerras. Sé la destrucción y la muerte que traen consigo. Yo soy el que tiene que consolar a las madres y a las viudas de los muertos. Por supuesto, para nosotros esa sería la mejor solución. Además, nos ahorraría 50.000 millones de dólares.
That would be the perfect solution for me. I don't want war. I know what wars are. I know they bring destruction and death. I am the one who has to console the mothers and the widows of the dead. So of course, for us that woulD be the better solution. Besides, we will save 50 billion dollars.

PA.
Necesitamos que nos ayudéis con nuestra opinión pública.
We will need you to help us with public opinion.

PB.
Haremos todo lo que podamos. El miércoles voy a hablar sobre la situación en el Oriente Medio, proponiendo un nuevo esquema de paz que conoces y sobre las armas de destrucción masiva, de los beneficios de una sociedad libre, y situaré la historia de Irak en un contexto más amplio. Quizá os sirva.
We will do all we can do. On Wed. I will speak on the situation in the Middle East, proposing a new outline for peace as you know, and about weapons of mass destruction.

PA.
Lo que estamos haciendo es un cambio muy profundo para España y para los españoles. Estamos cambiando la política que el país había seguido en los últimos 200 años.
What we are doing is a very profound change for Spain and for the Spanish people. We are changing the politics that the country has been following in the las 200 years.

PB.
A mí me guía un sentido histórico de la responsabilidad igual que a ti. Cuando dentro de unos años la Historia nos juzgue no quiero que la gente se pregunte por qué Bush, o Aznar, o Blair no hicieron frente a sus responsabilidades. Al final, lo que la gente quiere es gozar de libertad. Hace poco, en Rumania me recordaban el ejemplo de Ceausescu: bastó con que una mujer le llamara mentiroso para que todo el edificio represivo se viniera abajo. Es el poder incontenible de la libertad. Estoy convencido de que conseguiré la resolución.
A historic sense of responsibility guides me as it does you. When within a few years History judges us I don't want people asking why Bush, or Aznar, or Blair did not assume their responsibilities. All said, people want to enjoy freedom. Recently, I remember the example of Ceausescu in Romania: it was sufficient that one woman call him a liar for the entire repressive regime to collapse. That is the uncontainable power of liberty. I'm convinced I will get the resolution.

PA. Mejor que mejor.
Better than better.

PB.
Yo tomé la decisión de ir al Consejo de Seguridad. A pesar de las divergencias en mi Administración, les dije a mi gente que teníamos que trabajar con nuestros amigos. Será estupendo contar con una segunda resolución.
I made the decision to go to the Security Council. Given the divergences of opinion in my administration, I told my people that we would have to work with our friends. It would be stupendous to have a second resolution.

PA.
Lo único que me preocupa de ti es tu optimismo.
The only thing that worries me about you is your optimism.


PB.
Estoy optimista porque creo que estoy en lo cierto. Estoy en paz conmigo mismo. Nos ha correspondido hacer frente a una seria amenaza contra la paz. Me irrita muchísimo contemplar la insensibilidad de los europeos sobre los sufrimientos que Sadam Hussein inflige a los iraquíes.
I'm optimistic because I believe I am right. I'm at peace with myself. It has fallen upon us to oppose a serious attack on peace. It irritates me greatly to think about the insensibility of the Europeans about the sufferings that Sadam Hussein inflicted on the Iraqis.

Quizá porque es moreno, lejano y musulmán, muchos europeos piensan que todo está bien con él. No olvidaré lo que me dijo una vez Solana: que por qué los americanos pensamos que los europeos son antisemitas e incapaces de hacer frente a sus responsabilidades. Esa actitud defensiva es terrible. Tengo que reconocer que con Kofi Annan tengo unas magníficas relaciones.
Perhaps because he is dark-skinned, distant, and Muslim, many Europeans think everything is fine with him. I won't forget what Solana once told me: that why do Americans think Europeans are anti-Semitic and incapable of confronting their responsibilities. This defensive attitude is terrible. I have to reestablish having magnificent relations with Kofi Annan.

PA.
Comparte tus preocupaciones éticas.
Share you ethical concerns with him.

PB.
Cuanto más me atacan los europeos tanto más fuerte soy en los Estados Unidos.
The more the European attack me, the more strongly I'm in the United States.

PA.
Tendríamos que hacer compatible tu fortaleza con el aprecio de los europeos.
We have to make your fortitude compatible with the appreciation of Europeans.

[tblue37]

37. This comment is striking:

(Muammar El) Gaddafi le ha dicho a Berlusconi que Sadam Hussein quiere irse.
(Muammar El) Gaddafi has told Berlusconi that Sadam Hussein wants to go.

In other words, Bush knew long before the invasion that Saddam was willing to leave without our having to drop a bomb or fire a shot, but they wanted to play their little shock and awe games. They didn't want a bloodless deposing of Saddam, so they did everything they could to get their war on before he could simply abdicate and leave the country.

[acmavm]

31. Gee whiz, ANOTHER verification that the little pointy earred

fuckwit intended to go to war and that he was (and still is) lying about wanting to find a peaceful settlement to the 'Saddam problem'?

How many confirmations of this fact have we got now?

[Igel]

34. It's far more nuanced than that.

First, the Spanish is (and should) be no more clear as to whether in saying "the moment's arrived" it's the result of a decision ("I intend war; the time has come") or a conclusion ("I've concluded that nothing will change and waiting will make things worse; the time has come"). Rather like, the difference between, "I must cook the beef"--is it because you're starving but are afraid it's contaminated or because your spouse is yelling that it's dinner time. Rather different modalities, there.

Second, there are places where he argues that exile would be good, war not good. "Saben que su futuro está en el exilio o en un ataúd. Por eso es tan importante mantener la presión sobre él. Gaddafi nos dice indirectamente que eso es lo único que puede acabar con él. La única estrategia de Sadam Hussein es la de retrasar, retrasar y retrasar. ... Para mí sería la solución perfecta. Yo no quiero la guerra. Sé lo que son las guerras. Sé la destrucción y la muerte que traen consigo. Yo soy el que tiene que consolar a las madres y a las viudas de los muertos. Por supuesto, para nosotros esa sería la mejor solución. Además, nos ahorraría 50.000 millones de dólares. "(Those around Saddam) know his future is in exile or in a coffin. That's why it's so important to keep the pressure on him. Gaddafi's told us indirectly that this is the only thing that can finish him. Saddam Hussein's only (remaining?) strategy is to retreat, retreat, retreat. ... It would be the perfect solution for me. I don't want war. I know what wars are like. I know the destruction and death they bring. I'm the one that would have to comfort the mothers and the widows of the dead. Of course it would be the perfect solution for us."

It's hard to say who the transcript as a whole hurts more. On the one side, it shows that foreign aid and treaty ratifications--political initiatives--might be used to burnish support for the war--in a political initiative. On the other hand, it doesn't clearly show anybody's monsterhood. Impatience, or, rather, lack of patience, sure. But that's rather more nuanced than quoting bits to try show that it was a done deal in 2001, to force it into a narrative, and then show that the forced interpretation supports the narrative that prmpted the forcing. That it was all behind closed doors and Aznar seems to be mostly on the same page as * makes it less likely that it's a bunch of spin for public consumption--maybe a bit spun for Aznar, but not for you or me.

[Demeter]

43. It Would Have Been Politic If Aznar Had Spilled the Beans in February of 2002

instead of 5.5 years too late!

[chill_wind]

54. No argument there. Goes for a whole lot of our "bean spillers" here in the US, as well.

About 5 years too late. Where were they all in 2004???

[whistle]

33. Bush said: "This is as the Chinese torture of the water. We must end it."

...That is exactly what Shrub* has been for the last 81 months and the same resolution he offered as the solution for Saddam ought to be applied to Dubya and Cheney.

[BlooInBloo]

35. To any learning spanish: It's excellent practice, because you already know the gist!

Was good for me to brush up my reading, and remember various colloquial constructions.

[Up2Late]

36. Good to see this story, but those of us who were paying attention knew this in 2002.

I figured this out in September 2002.

Just go to the NPR Archives and search for Saddam Hussein or Iraq, once Cheney gave his August 2002 speech (I think to the VFW) it was a done deal.

[L. Coyote]

39. It was obviously a mad march to war for any reasoned person watching the media.

However, that did not matter either. Even the reporting of Iraqi cooperations with the inspectors meant nothing at the time. The decision was in long before the events and the United Nations itself were manipulated to conform to the decision.

[Zhade]

40. Why hasn't this criminal been arrested yet?

I swear, this country is insane.

[Zech Marquis]

41. this makes me wonder

1)who did * piss off in the Spanish government to make them leak this information?

and more importantly, 2)if the previous Spanish president knew he'd get canned by standing along with *, why didn't he leak this info THEN???

[Initech]

44. And yet, impeachment is "off the table".

Argh, words cannot describe my utter hatred for this fucking administration. :banghead: :banghead: :argh: :argh: :nuke: :nuke:

[samplegirl]

46. I guess Jackass Kramer

thinks everyone in N.E. Ohio can become a stock consultant or write a book and sell it.
He has no idea how bad the effects of Packard Delphi getting rid of some 3,000 people has done to this area. All we need is GM to go under and we can become a virtual ghost town. Easy for these rich bastards to sink the working class to even a lower level.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

47. I for one, am dissappointed. He actually said what he's always

said. I want some cold hard proof of why he REALLY did it. (invade)

[condejodido]

48. Aznar now works for Rupert Murdoch

Xl Semenal, a Spanish weekly, reported on August 12th that reported that Aznar now works for Rupert Murdoch

[Goat52a]

51. wow

this point? and still Democrats vote for the war and vote to spend our money and our children's death or pain...

[chill_wind]

53. Can you link that? That's quite interesting. Welcome to DU. n/t

[condejodido]

55. Link to article linking Aznar & Murdoch

Thank you.

Here's a link to the article (It's in Castellano/Spanish):

http://www.xlsemanal.com/web/articulo.php?id=19597&id_edicion=2427

[chill_wind]

75. Thank you.

[chill_wind]

52. "Legacy Laundering", pure and simple.

I agree with stubtoe (post#28). We'll see a lot more of it to come in the coming years.

And I fear the world is going to let every one of them do it.

[Hissyspit]

56. Report Says Hussein Was Open To Exile Before 2003 Invasion

Source: Washington Post

Report Says Hussein Was Open To Exile Before 2003 Invasion
He Is Said to Have Sought $1 Billion and Information on Arms

By Karen DeYoung and Michael Abramowitz
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, September 27, 2007; Page A17

Less than a month before the U.S. invasion of Iraq, Saddam Hussein signaled that he was willing to go into exile as long as he could take with him $1 billion and information on weapons of mass destruction, according to a report of a Feb. 22, 2003, meeting between President Bush and his Spanish counterpart published by a Spanish newspaper yesterday.

The meeting at Bush's Texas ranch was a planning session for a final diplomatic push at the United Nations. The White House was preparing to introduce a tough new Security Council resolution to pressure Hussein, but most council members saw it as a ploy to gain their authorization for war.

Spain's prime minister at the time, Jose Maria Aznar, expressed hope that war might be avoided -- or at least supported by a U.N. majority -- and Bush said that outcome would be "the best solution for us" and "would also save us $50 billion," referring to the initial U.S. estimate of what the Iraq war would cost. But Bush made it clear in the meeting that he expected to "be in Baghdad at the end of March."

- snip -

The account offered a rare glimpse of how Bush interacted with a trusted foreign leader, offering blunt assessments and showing a determination that led even Aznar, a close ally on Iraq, to ask that Bush show "a little more patience" in the march toward war. Bush expressed anger and irritation at those governments that disagreed with him, warning that they would pay a price. He directed particular scorn toward then-French President Jacques Chirac, one of the most public opponents of invasion, saying Chirac "sees himself as Mr. Arab."

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/26/AR2007092602414.html?nav=rss_world

[acmavm]

57. Yep, gotta get that WMD propaganda in every story folks.

Too bad there were none.

[sabra]

58. so the transcript hits the MSM - and they go with the Saddam wanted WMD angle

:eyes:

[trotsky]

59. Aw, hell.

How many lives and how much money could have been saved? With a much better chance at a free, democratic Iraq, even.

I hang my head in sorrow.

[BrklynLib at work]

64. The Chimp is one of those historical figures without whom the world would have been a much, much

better place.

[Yupster]

65. Back then here on DU I was

confidently proclaiming to all here that Saddam would fly to Saudi Arabia at the last minute and take the mansion next to Idi Amin's. I was shocked (and wrong) he didn't do it.

When Bush gave him 36 hours to leave the country or be invaded in his speech, I was confident the news the next morning would be that Saddam has reportedly landed in Mecca.

Would have worked out a lot better for him if he had. Then he could have watched the insurgency grow, and wait for the call to come back and save his country. Even if it never came, he could wait for it and here from his supporters that "anyday now."

[Turbineguy]

68. According to the Debka File people

a huge compound was being built for Saddam Hussein in Libya.

[spotbird]

74. It was never about Saddam

or WMD. If Saddam had committted suicide in public they still would have invaded.

[stellanoir]

60. Juan Cole's take on this report. . .

http://www.juancole.com/2007/09/transcript-reveals-impeachable-offenses.html

Yet another "impeachable" offense.

[Hissyspit]

62. I'm gonna self-promote my thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1919791

:7

[stellanoir]

66. I just noticed that thread and wondered if

I shouldn't have posted the direct link.

So I gave it the 5th rec. :hi:

[liberal renegade]

61. WTFE!

[BrklynLib at work]

63. but..but..but..then the spoiled sociopatic brat could not have wreaked vengeance for his Poppy's

weakness...and besides that...Didn't god tell the chimp that he had to invade Iraq? Oh wait a minute, that was Cheney/Rove/Rumsfeld whispering in his ear...but he thought it was god, so isn't it the same thing?

[Turbineguy]

67. Info on WMD's

yeah, that's what I'd wanna take with me when I retire...

I'm a bit iffy on that $1 billion though.

[kskiska]

69. "The only thing that worries me is your optimism," Aznar said.

"I'm optimistic because I believe I'm right," Bush replied. "I'm at peace with myself."

[babylonsister]

70. I remember Saddam saying that; by then, it didn't matter.

Come hell or high water, * was attacking.

[Newsjock]

71. A17 again!?

Is the WashPost putting these stories on A17 again for a reason? That's where Pincus' stuff before the war was always buried at.

[Doctor_J]

72. Saddam & Sons tried to surrender the week before Chimp killed the first batch of Iraqis

Saddam did his best to save his country and people, but * was hell bent on killing.

[DavidDvorkin]

73. Would Churchill have accepted exile for Hitler? Or Roosevelt for the Japanese Emperor?

I think not! Thank God we had the godlike chimperor in the White House, and not that spineless Gore fellow!

Harrumph!

Hmm. I haven't heard that kind of rhetoric from Republicans lately. Could they finally be embarrassed?

[Kaleko]

76. SADDAM ASKED BUSH FOR $1BN TO GO INTO EXILE

Source: thisislondon.co.uk

SADDAM ASKED BUSH FOR $1BN TO GO INTO EXILE
Sept. 27, 2007

Saddam Hussein offered to step down and go into exile one month before the invasion of Iraq, it was claimed last night.
Fearing defeat, Saddam was prepared to go peacefully in return for £500 million ($1 billion).
The extraordinary offer was revealed yesterday in a transcript of talks in February 2003 between George Bush and the then Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar at the President's Texas ranch.
The White House refused to comment on the report last night.
But, if verified, it is certain to raise questions in Washington and London over whether the costly four-year war could have been averted.
Only yesterday, the Bush administration asked Congress for another £100billion to finance the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The total war bill for British taxpayers is expected to reach £7billion by next year.
More than 3,800 American service personnel have lost their lives in Iraq, along with 170 Britons and tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians.
However, according to the tapes, one month before he launched the invasion Mr. Bush appeared convinced that Saddam was serious about going into exile.





Read more: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23414014-details/Saddam+asked+Bush+for+%241bn+to+go+into+exile/article.do

[WCGreen]

77. The blood of all those people are on his hands....

[leQ]

86. we've been saying that for months now. suddenly we get proof of it? what's up with that?

[WCGreen]

96. Just more blather to fill the airways....

But still, we knew it, and the rest of the world scoffed or were to affrais to ask who was behind the curtain...

It really doesn't feel all that great to know we were right to begin with...

[niyad]

78. welcome to DU--this was known at the tiime, but not commented on extensively.

[Kaleko]

85. Really? I had no clue...

but thanks for the welcome, underground mavens! :D

[ramapo]

79. Would've been no fun at all

Bush wouldn't have gotten to be a wartime president or land on an aircraft carrier.

[global1]

80. How Much Do You Think * Would Take To Step Down And Go Into Exile?,,,,,nt

[shain from kane]

81. I would have paid my share of the $1,000,000,000.00 to have 3,800 brave soldiers back.

$1,000,000,000/300,000,000 = $3.33

[Gen. Jack D. Ripper]

82. Yup, I say it all the time, war was the only agenda

and that agenda would not be deterred, though it could have been in innumerable ways.

[Jack Bone]

83. Great Post...Rec'd

:toast:

[NYC Liberal]

84. Ahh but here's the catch:

If Saddam had surrendered and Bush had somehow accepted....WE WOULD STILL BE IN IRAQ TODAY!

Think about it: Saddam & Co. leave. Then Bush just sends our troops in to take over. Same situation but without that "shock and awe."

The heart of it is that Bush wanted his shock-and-awe!

[Kaleko]

88. Blood right: Disaster Capitalism to enrich his cronies

[shain from kane]

93. Is that you, Naomi, promoting your book?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shock_Doctrine

[Boojatta]

87. Didn't Iraq have any pensions for government employees under Saddam?

Why didn't Saddam offer to go for $50 million and then use $10 million of the money to hire Iraqi government pension fund managers to manage his own personal $40 million pension fund?

It looks as though the CEO of Iraq Inc. expected an overly luxurious golden handshake. Did Saddam claim that he managed his years in power better than President Herbert Hoover managed his years in power?

[crispini]

89. Wow, it would have been cheaper.

Grrrrrrrrrrr!

[Dhalgren]

90. This is not exactly correct. Saddam was going to take

a billion dollars of Iraq's money - not from Bush (or us). This is a subtle form of spin. It makes it sound like "We could have paid him off", but in reality he was going to take Iraq's money and go. I read about it this morning on www.juancole.com

[Kaleko]

94. Here's an excerpt from that article:

"Bush rejected out of hand a deal brokered by the Egyptians whereby Saddam Hussein would leave the country with a billion dollars and some documents about his WMD program. Reuters reports:


'The Egyptians are speaking to Saddam Hussein. It seems he's indicated he would be prepared to go into exile if he's allowed to take $1 billion and all the information he wants about weapons of mass destruction," Bush was quoted as saying at the meeting one month before the U.S.-led invasion.'



The transcript in Spanish then says ({author's} translation):


'Aznar: Is it certain that any possibility exists that Saddam Hussein will go into exile?

Bush: The possibility exists, including that he will be assassinated.

Aznar: Exile with a guarantee?

Bush: No guarantee! He is a thug, a terrorist, a war criminal."

[amandabeech]

95. And then the U.S. and other nations could have indemnified Iraq.

Or negotiated with Hussein to take our money in the first place. After all, it is fungible.

[jordi_fanclub]

91. That headline is INCORRECT...

Also INCORRECT is that: "Saddam was prepared to go peacefully in return for £500 million..."

Saddam DON'T asked the $1B from Bush et al.!!!
The ORIGINAL article http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/Llego/momento/deshacerse/Sadam/elpepunac/20070926elpepinac_1/Tes
states exactly: "Parece que ha indicado que estaría dispuesto a exiliarse si le dejaran llevarse
1.000 millones de dólares y toda la información que quisiera sobre armas de destrucción masiva."

OR in an English free-translation: "(Saddam) wanted to go to the exile WITH $1B (of IRAQ's money)
and with all information about the (errrr... still missing!) weapons of mass destruction he could take"

[Auggie]

92. WTF? It sounds like a joke headline. Have any other news organizations picked this up?

[sarcasmo]

98. Kick.