Family Mourns Woman Who Died at Airport

[Hissyspit]

Source: Associated Press

Family mourns woman who died at airport
By KAREN MATTHEWS, Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK - A traveler who may have accidentally choked herself to death while handcuffed in an airport holding cell was a "wonderful" woman and mother, according to New York City's public advocate, who is her relative. Carol Anne Gotbaum, 45, was arrested Friday at Sky Harbor International Airport in Phoenix after she became irate when gate crews refused to let her board a flight for which she was late, officials said.

"She was a wonderful mother; she was sweet and kind and loving," said public advocate Betsy Gotbaum, the woman's stepmother-in-law. "It's obviously very, very difficult for us; we are dealing with it as best we can. My No. 1 focus is those children and my stepson." She also pleaded with the press for privacy.

The events that led to Gotbaum's death began when she became irate over not being allowed on a US Airways flight, though she was rebooked on a later flight, officials said.

Officers handcuffed her and took her to the holding room, where she kept screaming, authorities said. They checked on her when she became quiet and found her unresponsive, said Phoenix police Sgt. Andy Hill. It appears Gotbaum may have tried to get out of her handcuffs, which ended up around her neck, Hill said. A medical examiner will determine the cause of death. Neither a stun gun nor pepper spray was used on the woman, authorities said.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070930/ap_on_re_us/airport_death

---

http://www.imgred.com/

This undated family photo provided by the Office of the Public Advocate for the City of New York shows Carol Anne Gotbaum. Gotbaum, 45, was found dead in a police holding cell in Phoenix, Ariz. on Friday, Sept. 28, 2007, where she had been taken in handcuffs after being arrested at an airport, authorities and relatives said. (AP Photo/Office of the Public Advocate for the City of New York)

[BrklynLiberal]

1. She does not look like a wild and crazy lady.

:shrug:

[ccpup]

4. not that they compare in any way,

but there are those who thought Jeffrey Dahmer looked very sweet and innocent as well. Absolutely zilch can be determined about someone's ability to fly off the handle and be violently angry when they don't get their way based entirely on what they look like. I suspect the nicest corporate husbands and fathers who spend their days in expensive suits, handcrafted shoes and whose smiles can light up the room can be complete and utter violent bastards in the privacy of their own homes.

[barb162]

94. There 's a super successful asshole like that who lives across the street

There's a lot of people like that.

[onenote]

23. you think she (a) always acted that way and (b) posed for pictures when she was?

Good grief.

[Born Free]

70. maybe it was not suicide as they suggest but....

murder.....

of course it's always best to blame the victims, heck she may have been a terr..

actually, the people should demand a full investigation to find out what really happened

[MissMarple]

2. Something is missing from this story.

It just doesn't make sense to me. :shrug:

[snappyturtle]

6. This story stinks! If they handcuffed her with her hands behind her

how could she become entangled with the cuffs unless she dislocated her shoulders!? If her hands were cuffed in front of her, how would she become entangled at all? Too many horror stories coming out of air travel lately for my liking. Remember when airports and flying were fun? I have to make a trip later this month and wish now I had planned to drive.

[terisan]

16. The public arena seems to be getting more authoritarian. nt

[snappyturtle]

21. I agree and I can't help but wonder what the motivation is behind

this aggressiveness. Maybe I don't want to know.

[Pavulon]

28. You would get the same response

in frankfurt in 1994. You can not flip out in an airport, here or abroad.

[terisan]

30. You can, anyone can. It is how one is treated by those in authority that is the issue. nt

She needed an advocate; she should not have been left alone.

[Pavulon]

32. She needed to think

before flipping out. If there was misconduct then we have a problem. However if she managed to kill herself in custody, there is a different problem.

She should have showed some self control.

Still sad, not a sweeping problem, her problem.

[terisan]

35. How do you know she was not mentally ill, having a medication reaction?

Frankly you yourself can never say with 100% certainly that you would never act irrationaly in a public setting or that you could always keep yourself from doing so. The human body can be unpredictable.

I see this as her problem and a very serious airport management problem.

Her behavior, as described in the article, may have been induced by a number of things. Management of irrational behavior in public places should generally prevent a person's harming him or herself.

We used to have Traveler's aid offices in bus stations, airports, etc. People who lose control of themselves could be assessed and assisted. There is something wrong with what happened at the Phoenix airport.

[ProudDad]

89. I'm tired of your shit

Bye, bye...


I'm using ignore now for useless posters -- you're number 2!!!

[Lost4words]

78. You are correct! nm

[Exultant Democracy]

51. Your avatar says how I feel right now. All of these stories stink and they are coming

in everyday. The jerk in me wants to say "Now you all know how is feels to be black." (not you, just in general) The rest of me just wants to scream.

[mike_c]

85. agreed, there is something missing from this story....

IF she dislocated her shoulders, it's conceivable-- just barely, with lots of imagination-- that she might have been capable of lifting her wrists over her head using arm muscles but not able to push them down off her throat with her shoulders dislocated, but that presumes she could get herself into that position in the first place, and still doesn't address why she couldn't simply tilt her head back to breathe. As it has been described, the story seems physically improbable.

[sendero]

75. Me either...

.. this is bullshit and I hope there is an autopsy. For god's sake, if she did choke that way the physical evidence will be conclusive.

[barb162]

95. I agree. Maybe she became a real wild woman over missing that flight?

I can't tell.

[terisan]

3. If there was wrong-doing I think the NYC Public Advocate will find it out.

I am bothered by the fact this woman was left alone in isolation in handcuffs.

I just think there are so many medical issues that can make people appear irrational.

I remember a teenager who began acting irrationally on a flight and that he was kiled by a group of passengers who decided to subdue him; and also the man who's irrational behavior, due to medical condition, caused Amtrak to put him off practically in the middle of no where.

I avoid planes. The last few flights I was on reminded me of traveling in East Germany before the Berlin wall came down.

[maseman]

10. You must be joking

I fly nearly every week for business (and of course some pleasure.) I'll do between 40 and 43 weeks in the air every year for the past eight. Most domestic but some international.

Flying is not a big deal. I show up about an hour before my flight, have the occasional missing bags (may twice every year out of 40 trips) and of course deal with weather delays, mechanical problems, etc. I see people go absolutely NUTS on occasion. I've seen many posts on this lady and I must say I think the airline workers need a break sometimes. They are treated like complete assholes sometimes for what? $25K per year? Layoff potential?

My flight last week on a small jet was overweight. They needed five people to get off. What happened was their were a line of major storms that needed to be deviated around thus taking full fuel loads. Their weight restrictions on Continental are strict so with full fuel they cannot have every seat booked. 5 people had to get off with their bags or we couldn't go. The ladyin front of me was irrate. Bitching, hollaring at the flight attendent, huffing, puffing, etc. She deserved to be taken off her flight.

My overall flight experiences are good but people do act like children many times in airports and on airplanes. I am sure you have the occasional medical condition or blood sugar problem making people behave bad, but let's not make excuses for people taht act like idiots either.

[Sukie1941]

20. My flights are few and far between

and cost me an arm and a leg. Usually I fly somewhere for a special occasion, something that has time elements (such as a four-day commemoration of the 150th anniversary of the founding of a college by my fifth gr grandfather).

My last trip was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for me. Usually it takes three flights each direction to get anywhere cross country. Never fails that something comes up that messes up the schedule.

I think there are people who are justified to be really really pissed. Such as missing a wedding or a funeral.

When I was in the early-day travel business (early 1960's) we didn't have such problems. I think we did much better under govt regulation.

[maseman]

47. Travel

I also usually plan travel within a week of my trip. The airlines do charge more for the last minute flyers. That is their perogative to do so. It rewards people with lower fares who plan their trips early.

I fly across the country all the time (even from a smaller regional airport) and never have a double connecting flight. Maybe you should seek the help of a travel agency to avoid these double connections.

If the airline blatantly screws up by over-selling a flight and giving you the boot they should accomodate you especially in a wedding or funeral. I have had good luck with airlines when having a very strict time constraint due to personal reasons. However, most delays are due to two major problems: weather and the ailing ATC system.

Weather cannot be helped. What happens is the airports are SO busy that if a major storm hits any large hub the whole airline industry is impacted. You take Laguardia and Atlanta having a major thunderstorm the same day it screws everything up. Take Chicago O'Hare and DFW out of the mix for a few hours due to storms and again it ripples heavily through the industry. When that happens it is no one individuals fault.

The ailing ATC system is our government's problem. Old equipment, power failures, phantom radar, etc. are big problems. The system is over-taxed.

[ProudDad]

91. Thank ray-gun for the genisis of that

"The system is over-taxed"

ronny ray-gun -- biggest piece of shit until bush ii

[shelster]

50. joking?

This woman died in custody, for what? You think this is okay?

[chelsea0011]

79. Exactly....how can anyone say the hell with her because she

shouldn't have over reacted and somehow deserves it. She was angry at an airport and died? This is an outrage.

[Mojorabbit]

61. My last one was not anything like that

I was made to stand spread legged while a wand was dragged between my crotch and was felt up on my breasts. My purse was emptied out on a counter and it's contents pawed. I can't tell you how that made me feel. The person doing the search was rude and curt.
I won't fly again unless it is absolutely necessary.

[liberalmuse]

5. Hmmmmm.

Something stinks. We all know how courteous airport personnel and cops/security guards are.

[Ilsa]

7. I suspect she had an unknown underlying medical problem.

Something doesn't seem right here, and I bet we'll know more after the autopsy.

[aquart]

59. Which might have caused the anger, but the "strangling"?

No way in hell a prisoner is supposed to be able to hurt himself. That's why they remove belts and shoelaces. Once you are "in custody," you are not responsible for your care, someone else is.

As for the anger, any retailer knows that you don't have to give a customer what he wants, but you do have to make him feel you want him to have it. Defusing anger is EASY. Show you care and you're willing to listen. If that doesn't work, call a doctor because something else is in play.

[Lucinda]

8. This one smells funny to me. Its horrible, however it happened.

[Evergreen Emerald]

9. I remember an incident once

in which a mother called 911 on her son, saying that he was going to kill her. She was hysterical and warned the police that he had a weapon and would not hesitate to kill them. Sure enough, when the police arrived, he ran into the driveway and started yelling, angry, and shooting. He was killed. That night the family supported the police, and said there was nothing else they could have done. Of course, later, when the idea of a lawsuit emerged, they changed their story: he was such a nice boy who was kind and friendly to everyone--how could the police do this?

This incident reminds me of that. We have all been upset about plane delays. But few of us run down the gate once it is closed and the plane is preparing to leave. And if we did, there would be consequences. It sounds as if she was irrational, unreasonable, and violent.

What course would you want security to take? Let her run off the end of the gate? Hold the plane up for every late person? Allow her to remain hysterical? What if she then harmed someone? Who would be at fault for not stopping the crazy woman?

She then continued her bizarre behavior by attempting to get out of the handcuffs. Yikes!

[ret5hd]

11. got a link to that incident? sounds urban-legendish to me.

But before you get too busy, describe to me in fine detail the physical contortions and positions that are necessary to choke yourself with handcuffs that are attached to your wrists.

[Kagemusha]

15. It was legitimately reported but... between us, I'm waiting for the autopsy.

I don't want to even begin to speculate until scientific evidence is produced.

[Evergreen Emerald]

17. Are you suggesting that they killed her and then are pretending that

she did it herself? THAT sounds like an urban myth.

[ret5hd]

43. Are you suggesting that cops don't kill people in jails?

[TX-RAT]

80. Since they didn't define chokeing, i'll give you this.

I've seen 2 people that were able to contort themselves enough to slip their cuffs from behind their back to in front of them. Both managed to get the cuffs down their back and around their feet. The only problem with this is if you get hung up, say on your shoes, you can actually lock yourself in a position that puts incredible restriction on your breathing, if not completely disabling your ability to breath. Not sure if thats the case here, since theres no details.

[KurtNYC]

84. That was my thought too.

It is not that hard to get the cuffs in front of you. The kids who drove the marijuana-filled truck from Mexico last week seem to have done this (and then drove the cop's car back to mexico).

But the article says:
...Phoenix police Sgt. Andy Hill. It appears Gotbaum may have tried to get out of her handcuffs, which ended up around her neck, Hill said.

And that just doesn't make sense. I can't picture how anyone gets handcuffs around their neck (?)

She is yelling, fighting, out of control and winds up strangled....hmmmm.

"I'm not a terrorist! I'm a sick mom! I need help!" yelled the mother of three after she missed the 2:58 p.m. US Airways Express flight to Tucson, said airport workers who witnessed the confrontation Friday.

They said one cop put his knee in her back to restrain her while others grabbed her flailing arms.

"I believe she was a little not-there. She kept punching. She kept screaming. She kept kicking," one worker told The News. "She looked really scared, really frightened. I think she was afraid to go to jail."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/10/01/2007-10-01_gotbaum_kins_plea_before_dying_im_not_a_.html

[KayLaw]

86. Oh, brother.

Now they're saying she was left alone no more than five or ten minutes and she somehow managed to kill herself though her hands were cuffed behind her back. How can anyone buy this garbage?

[Suich]

12. Did that happen in Bothell, by any chance?

About 25-30 years ago? Not sure of the date. The guy had a knife?

[Evergreen Emerald]

19. not that one, but I remember it too.

This was further south (lewis county) a couple of years ago.

[Suich]

29. Small world, huh?

The guy from Bothell was a schoolmate of some friends of mine. A lot of people were upset because he (only) had a knife....why not wait him out, etc.? They thought he could have been shot in the arm or leg. That was my introduction to "always aim for the widest part of the body."

[terisan]

14. How about an ambulance? How about a Traveler's Aid Counselor?

[Evergreen Emerald]

18. We are all making assumptions about what her intent was after the fact.

As it is occuring, and knowing the state of fear in this country with reagard to flights...we are assuming that she presented as she really was: an angry out-of-control bitch. But, what is she were not, and was allowed to run free in the airport? What would the liability of any harm she would have done been?

Do you expect the security to know her intent as the crazy acting woman is running down the gate?

[terisan]

25. I expect a level of service that does not simply handcuff and isolate a screaming person. She is as

deserving of "security" as every other person. An airport processes enormous numbers of people in various states of mental and physicical health. What would be the cost of having a counselor or medical technician available ?

Traveler's Aid type agencies should be available.

[pitohui]

39. you don't fly much do you, people run in airports to their gate ALL THE TIME

i'm a frequent flyer, trust me, it's just expected, i've even been told run we're not allowed to hold that flight

[pitohui]

38. i see people running to their gate every day actually

hell, i frequently run to my gate

no one even bats an eye, it's what you do in airports, you run to the gate and hope somehow they are wrong and the door is still open, i've even had agents tell me, "run!" -- and even if the door is closed and you're too late, there is a value in being first in line to be rebooked on alternate flights, so yeah, YOU RUN, it isn't odd, it isn't crazy, if you spend much time in airports as i do, it's just part of the game

this story has a stink about it

i also see people yelling and screaming and getting irate at the airport, esp. during delays and misconnects, far from seeing those people arrested, when i was caught in the snowstorm this march that shut down the entire northeast -- when EVERYONE was yelling and screaming -- our agent quietly slipped us a couple of booklets with free drink/meal coupons while whispering, "these are not supposed to be for weather related but you people are so patient i had to thank you" -- you know why, because we were members of a tiny minority that didn't yell and scream

believe you me, there have been PLENTY of post 911 situations where i've seen all kinds of people running and screaming, and no one getting arrested, much less killed

i don't believe you can somehow strangle yourself to death around your neck w. handcuffs, sorry

i hope the story emerges, phoenix law enforcement has a very poor reputation as it is if you ask me

this does nothing to enhance it

[Bobbieo]

42. Shades of OJ Simpson!!!

[LaStrega]

13. granted ...

an airport is *not* the place you should be venting your anger ... but I still have major difficulty envisioning how someone could choke themselves with handcuffs.

bah.

[NYC]

37. So do I.

...but I still have major difficulty envisioning how someone could choke themselves with handcuffs...

It makes no sense.

[terisan]

22. Interesting article in NY Times on animal empathy ---helping vs. hurting

With all the money we are spending on airport security, why would an irrational screaming human being be left alone in isolation in handcuffs. I think the Bush years are a factor. I want to live in a more empathetic society --one that does not automatically punish. If airports don't want to pay to deal better with situations like this--they could almost certainly get a non-profit to have volunteers to stay with a person such as this.

New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/science/20moral.html?em&ex=1174536000&en=5e5850fce54c420e&ei=5087%0A

Some animals are surprisingly sensitive to the plight of others. Chimpanzees, who cannot swim, have drowned in zoo moats trying to save others. Given the chance to get food by pulling a chain that would also deliver an electric shock to a companion, rhesus monkeys will starve themselves for several days.................

[leftchick]

24. they only checked on her when she stopped screaming!

holy fuck! Middle class working mother in a fucking holding cell for being PISSED she missed a flight. Automatic terror suspect handling procedurs take over! This is the new ameriKa folks! Get used to it! :scared:

[terisan]

26. Your outrage is justified. The inhumanity of this woman's death sickens me. nt

[Pavulon]

27. Visit your local drunk tank

lots of angry screaming people. All absorbed in their own self importance. Not a terror thing, an asshole thing.

BTW you get the same response everywhere. Heathrow, CDG, etc..

Sorry, you can pimp fear and oppression, this is all about stupidity.

[terisan]

31. Is there any evidence she was drunk? We have the capability of handling these issues

humanely.

[Pavulon]

33. No reason to believe

that someone mistreated her. Again self control on her part before, and possibly after her arrest would have prevented this.

Her problem, her choice. Barring any finding of misconduct.

[ccpup]

34. exactly

I remember boarding a flight at CDG for JFK and a woman huffed and puffed and pushed her way to the Gate saying she was late for her First Class seat. Well, unfortunately, she had been bumped from First Class and was now being seated in (gasp) Business. They had been paging her and paging her, but she had been taking her sweet time -- judging by her shopping bags -- in the Duty Free Stores. Needless to say, she was PISSED. Hauled off and hit the girl from the airline with her bag, screamed -- SCREAMED! -- that she was calling her attorney and didn't they knew who she was (no, no one knew who she was) and there would be "repercussions" for this "inhumane treatment" of her. Walking down the Gate to my own First Class seat, I could still here her screaming, but now it was at the Police ... and NO, she would NOT be quiet and how DARE they treat her so "inhumanely".

Left quite a bad taste in everyone's mouth and if anyone should be arrested and forced to calm the fuck down it would be people like her. I mean, there were children nearby and she was screaming so loud she had spit flying out of her mouth and her bags were flying this way and that. (p.s. did not want to be around when someone told her she had way too much carry-on baggage) :scared: Should everyone be subjected to her childish violence because she's not (stomp, stomp, fold arms across chest) getting her way?

This woman in Phoenix sounded like a major bitch and if someone's running up and down the gate screaming and being beyond unreasonable, then, yes, the Cops do have a right to detain them until they calm the fuck down.

I trust there will be some sort of surveillance video of her both in the airport and in the holding cell.

[terisan]

36. You are making a lot of assumptions. What if she were schizophrenic and meds stopped working?

An assessment by a counselor is a fairly simple thing. Being handcuffed and isolated is inhumane. If she were arrested she could have at least been immediately taken into custody or sent for observation re mental functioning.

Problem behavior is not necessarlly criminal behavior or selfish/bad behavior.

We have the skills to deal with many problem behaviors. The treatment as described in this article is primitive and substandard-and has resulted in death.

[pitohui]

40. or diabetic

actually i had a friend who was arrested for schizophrenia (had stopped taking meds) and his words were taken as a threat by a bus driver

i've also had friends w. diabetes go into strange rages

however...

i have no idea if this happened here -- running to your gate and being irate is not uncommon or insane behavior at the airport, it's standard behavior, i see it all the time myself as a frequent flyer -- so i have to believe something else happened, say someone took a dislike to this woman or her accent (someone said she was south african born, there are hints that she was believed to be "entitled")

you just don't get arrested for yelling and running to your gate, yes, you do get arrested for making jokes, but EVERYBODY has yelled and/or run to their gate in sometime in their travel career if they have any real air mileage on them at all

[Pavulon]

41. There is no right

that grants us the freedom to pitch a fit in a public place. We have no right to yell at agents, tsa, or flight crew.

Now if she was mistreated I would certainly have a different comment. We will see.

However I have seen all kinds of bad behavior by self adsorbed people who cant handle some minor inconvenience.

It does take more than being rude to be cuffed and arrested.

[1monster]

44. Perhaps not, but it isn't a death penalty type action. Explain how one chokes onself

with handcuffs... even deliberately as opposed to accidentally. I can't visualize it in any way. It seems pretty near impossible to me.

[NYC]

46. Re deliberately.

As soon as you lost consciousness, you would cease pressure on your throat.

This all seems so unlikely.

[terisan]

55. Actually people have been cuffed and/or arrested and been guilty of nothing. Arrest not =guilt.

The police have power of arrest. They do not have power to determine guilt, innocence or sentence.

[scarface2004]

45. most police are authoritarian fascists....

who have very little competence in handling situations

[aquart]

58. Speak for your own cops.

Ours are trained in defusing tense situations. We have 8 million people and we get mad a lot.

[ProudDad]

92. If you mean New York City

does the name Amado Diallo ring a bell?

How about Abner Louima?

Cops are hired to protect the rich from the masses FIRST and FOREMOST...

The laws, courts, jails and prisons are designed to do the same...

There has to have been a better way to do this...

Criminal Negligence at best...

[fujiyama]

48. This is very fishy

Regardless if she was exhibiting "bad behavior" or not, she should have been properly monitored once taken in for holding.

I suppose if she was squirming around she could choke herself with the cuffs on, but that's still sort of hard to imagine. I'm not sure if I buy that.

People should not be dying in custody. That is simply unacceptable, but then again what used to be unacceptable in the US...

[shelster]

49. I agree, very fishy

Yes, I agree. I want to see a video of her behavior that the fascist police thought was wrong. The abuse of power trickles down from the top of this government to local police that think they are protecting who? by handcuffing an angry woman. Was her anger such a threat that they handcuff her? What a bunch of idiot police. They should be prosecuted and thrown in jail.
It doesn't make sense that she choked herself. Absurd and abusive.

[Pachamama]

87. I agree...my intuition tells me that something is missing here and she didn't just happen to die

because she "choked herself" with the handcuffs....

Was there a videotape of her in this cell? :shrug:

Short of me seeing her choke herself, I have a feeling she didn't do this alone...

[DRoseDARs]

52. CSI: Las Vegas had an episode that sort of echoed this except it happened inflight...

The guy started flipping out, scaring all aboard, and after getting him away from the cockpit door they went overboard and beat him to death. He flipped out because he was dying a slow death from a brain embolism (or something thereof) and was quite literally not in control of his actions. Grisam's character said at the end that if just one passenger or flight crew had asked him as his behavior deteriorated before he flipped out if he was alright, they could have saved his life instead of help murder him. To all you people laying this entirely on Carol, keep that in mind.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

53. Some of the reactions on this thread bother me (as do the responses to the

tasering of the student in Florida.)

It seems that we have a bunch of authoritarians on this board who think that not minding proper etiquette in a public place requires violent police action.

I don't care what the woman was doing to motivate the arrest. Even if she was being a self-important screaming harpy, that doesn't deserve the death penalty.

How do we know that her flipping out wasn't do to something like the beginnings of a cerebral hemorrhage in a part of the brain that regulates behavior?

Leaving an irrational person alone without checking up on them is NOT smart.

I hope the family sues the pants off the airport authority.

[lonestarnot]

57. Adamnmen!

[Naythan]

62. i'm glad i'm not the only one

who was thinking of this.

It amazes me that most of the discussion is surrounding her behavior. This incident shouldn't have anything to do with that or the fact she was detained.

The point that a lot people are missing is: why did she die in police custody?

I can not imagine why it would be o.k. to leave anyone unattended while wearing handcuffs. And no one seems to be offering any explanation to this.

[MissMarple]

66. Handclasp.

Truth to tell. We haven't heard the entire story. I'm guessing a cover up.

[Solon]

69. Authoritarians believe the police can do no wrong...

these are the type of people that created excuses for the execution of the Brazilian man in Great Britain, for the beating of protesters, for the tasering of unarmed people. To them, these victims mean jack shit, because they are guilty before they are ruled innocent.

[annabanana]

72. Thank you. . . . n/t

[atreides1]

77. Thank You

As you say there seem to be many pro-authoritarians on this board, not to mention some in this thread who throw the word "bitch" around in their replies, which would indicate a total lack of basic respect for the gender of the victim!

It's now in the hands of the medical examiner, but I think that her family should hire their own ME so that no chance for a cover-up occurs.

[ProudDad]

93. Amen

Happens every time police misbehavior and homicide is discussed...

the authoritarian followers and apologists for the police state show up every time...

[Savannah_H]

54. time span

Did they say how long it was before they went in to check on her? She must have been handcuffed in front. How could she choke herself if her hands were behind her.

[aquart]

56. Oops. They didn't know she had VIP connections.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

60. Ok.

I want one of you authoritarian-loving geniuses to explain to me how a person, handcuffed in either front or back strangles themself. Please, regale the assembled with the body mechanics of this heretofore unheard of act. No assumptions of superhuman powers of contortionism will be accepted.

I am gonna predict that someone put her in a choke hold, cranked it down for too long and too hard. What you geniuses are forgetting is that this is the Maricopa County Sheriff's Department we are talking here, Sheriff Joe Arpaio presiding. I suggest you do a little research on these hale fellows well met, before you paint yourselves into The Mother of All Corners.

:eyes: Goddamn. Is this DU, or am I lost?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

63. Good point!

The blind faith that some DUers have in the police is disturbing.

I guess they've never been stopped by a cop who made up a law on the spot as an excuse or never had a work colleague stopped and roughed up for "Driving While Hispanic." I guess they never lived in a city where a cop shot to death an unarmed mentally ill woman. I guess they never lived in a town where a cop who was out jogging with a pistol(!) shot and killed a Labrador Retriever who started running after him.

There are good cops and bad cops, smart cops and dumb cops.

It seems that the people in charge of this case were either bad or dumb.

[lligrd]

68. Been Wondering The Same Thing

How can anyone believe this BS about strangling herself with the handcuffs?

[Hissyspit]

73. Re: Feeling lost.

I know what you mean.

[sendero]

76. I know.......

..... this has got to be the lamest story ever. And Why? Because they can't think of anything else.

It should be easy to prove at autopsy if this really happened. Although even then it could be faked.

[sasquatch]

88. In a Yahoo news report they said it was Phoenix PD that handled it

Sounds like some reactionary thug Police Officer broke her neck for no good goddamned reason and his "boys" are covering up for him.

[cigsandcoffee]

64. Maybe I'll get flamed for this, but I doubt the cops killed her.

Very much. It's much more likely she had some kind of nervous breakdown that resulted in the arrest, and managed to accidently strangle herself under the sort of poor supervision brought on by low pay and a little bit of power.

Negligence? Maybe. Did they kill her? no way.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

67. The cover story is implausible

I bet she had some medical condition that caused her to go berserk.

[KayLaw]

81. How?

Put your wrists together behind you back and see whether there is any chance in hell you could strangle yourself. The human body doesn't work that way. Besides, if the accidental strangling is suspect, then so is the whole story. Maybe she was held for some other reason. Maybe she's on the "Do not fly" list and was killed during interrogation.

[terisan]

65. NY Daily News Article

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/09/29/2007-09-29_betsy_gotbaums_daughterinlaw_dies_in_pho.html


.................."We are extraordinarily upset," Betsy Gotbaum told the Daily News last night.
"We are very concerned about what happened at Phoenix airport. It's under investigation and we are following that investigation," she said. "She has three very small children. It's a very delicate matter."
A man who answered the phone at Carol Anne Gotbaum's W. 95th St. townhouse apartment last night said, "This is a private family matter. Let us mourn in peace."..............................

[LeftHander]

71. Soon we'll hear about Post mortem finger bruises on neck....nt

[Vinca]

74. She probably had a panic attack being locked up with handcuffs on.

It's hard for me to understand why they left someone acting so nuts alone. Assuming she merited an arrest in the first place, she should have been kept under surveillance until she calmed down and/or provided with medical care.

[Jed Dilligan]

82. Strangled herself trying to get out of handcuffs... hmmm....

Excuse me while I give myself a rimjob.

[Taverner]

83. She was killed.

You cannot strangle yourself with handcuffs without pulling your shoulder out of its socket.

There is more to this story. A real journalist would push further.

[ProudDad]

90. I used to love to fly

I loved it so much I got a private pilot's license so I could do it more...

Now, thanks to the fascist police state we exist in, I can't fucking stand it!

TSA, strip searches, etc. -- Osama won!

Authoritarian bullshit...especially to leave a stressed out person handcuffed, alone and unattended. But then, to the cops, she was just noisy garbage...

Criminal Negligence at best...

[LeftHander]

96. Restraint Asphyxia - Hobbled and laying on stomach...

If she was kicking officers they would of hobbled her with a chain from ankle to wrists. When a person is in that type of restraint they are to be put on their side. If they are left on the stomach they can suffocate as the diaphragm becomes to weak to raise the body up to inhale.



http://www.charlydmiller.com/RA/restrasphyx01.html